Advertisement
How to add spoiler tags, edit posts, add images etc. How to - a user's guide to the new version of Boards
Mods please check the Moderators Group for an important update on Mod tools. If you do not have access to the group, please PM Niamh. Thanks!

House/ancestry puzzle on reddit

«13

Comments



  • could be totally wrong, it's a common Dublin house design, but think I may have looked in to this before somewhere - if memory serves it was near a fire station ?




  • I thought of shanew also when I saw the thread but reckoned that I'd just do it myself :)

    Rose Ann, when she travelled back to Ireland in 1920 when the photo was taken put her place of birth down as Sanfield, Ireland. I found her marriage cert which named her folks as Charles Carson and Mary Mullen. The only match on record was a Charles and Mary (Mullen) Carson living in Saintfield, Co. Down. Based on everyone's ages I believe that I have the right family but this doesn't help find the location of the house.

    My guess is that Rose was from Co. Down but had perhaps lived in Dublin or was visiting a sibling there, making it difficult with online records to locate the place.

    Here's the reddit thread. I'd be happy if someone could find a flaw with my theory :)




  • I think tracing family would be the way to do this with any certainly, not enough detail in the photo to be distinctive - if the poster puts a a better scan with a visible number might be more clues. There were, and still are too many houses like that, not only in Dublin, but also in other cities and large towns. I did a quick sample of the Carson surname in a mid 1910s Thom's and of the addresses which still existed about 4 of the addresses looked very similar.. a terrace with two windows upstairs slightly offset over a door and window below.

    and that's assuming these relations were Carson and not link through a sister or cousin etc..




  • probably a long shot with the current details available, but just in case ...

    attached - an enlarged version of the photo and the Carson households listed for 1921 in Thom's - so close to the date of Rose Ann's trip.

    294880.jpg


    and just the people :
    294882.jpg

    would the child be age about 1 ?

    if so the only Carson child I can see born around the right time in the two city districts is a Christopher Carson in Dublin south during January/March quarter 1919...




  • Rose Ann turns up on a number of family trees on Ancestry.
    One lists her parents as John Carson and Mary Ann Mullen.
    Most list her birth as October 31st 1864 in Sanfield, Northern Ireland.
    Her marriage to Horace Decker in 1893 followed the death of his first wife in 1890.


  • Advertisement


  • What a puzzle! This is just fascinating. I would also agree that records of the people would be the best way rather than using the photograph alone. If you could nail down the address by using the records then bring the photograph off to the specific street for a photo-fit! Hopefully its still standing. Good luck guys.




  • I'll post these note here in case anyone finds anything to try following up...

    key quotes from original reddit thread :
    Rose's marriage certificate says her parents were Charles Carson and Mary Mullen.
    .....
    She applied for a passport to visit Ireland on June 26th 1920. The application says she
    was born in "Sanfield, Ireland" on October 31st 1864. Her passport was issued on July 3rd.
    She departed Liverpool for Quebec on October 20th 1920.
    ....
    the passport application said she intended to leave via NY on July 20th.

    and from some key details based on clues posted on the thread by ptegan, scamallnaoi et al..

    The presumption is that "Sanfield" is a misinterpretation of Saintfield which is east of Lisburn.
    1901 census likely parents for Rose living and Ballygowan townland, Co. Down, Newtownards Reg. district, and at same address in 1911. They list that they are married 53 years, so c1858, and had 10 children, 7 of which are living. Two of the children are single and at home on the returns - Edward and Agnes.

    Carson household Ballygowan 1901
    Carson household Ballygowan 1911

    Dont see probate entry for Charles at PRONI

    children based on mix of RootsIreland & Extracted
    (marr Charles & Mary c1858)
    Mary Jane bapt 1859
    (gap for Rose?)
    William bapt 1863
    Margaret 21 May 1864
    Charles 25 Dec 1866
    Emily 16 Jun 1868
    John 29 Nov 1871
    Henry 25 Jan 1874
    Edward 19 Jun 1876
    Agnes Maria 23 Feb 1879

    a few gaps and 1 of the 10 born to the couple missing




  • one detail more for now...

    An entry in Valuation book AL/12/B/23/3F (1921 - 1929) shows a transfer of plot 11bb consisting of house, and abt 15 acres of land, in Ballygowan townland, Comber civil parish from Charles Carson to Edward Carson possibly during 1921 - red ink.

    at least gives a rough date limit for Charles, and probably rules Edward out as the Dublin connection

    and a probable UK incoming 18 Aug 1920 passenger list on Anc* for the 'Empress of France' arriving Liverpool from Quebec at shows a Rose Decker age 54 and a Margaret Mullen (relation on mother's side ?) age 70. Both give intended address as 51 Beachfield Belfast.

    wonder what that house looks like?




  • I think the house might be the one at Beechfield Street Belfast....

    1918 directory
    Beechfield Street
    Mountpottinger Road to Templemore Avenue
    Pottinger Ward, East Par. Div.

    51. McGouran, Mrs. Maggie

    wonder if Maggie might be Rose's sister...


    Mc McGouran houusehold - 1911

    13 children 6 alive John & Marg marr 29 years so c1882
    RC, all born Co. Down except Alphonsun born 'Belfast City'

    didn't find 51 on building return yet, but at least some of the houses have 4 or 5 rooms and 3 windows in front...

    EDIT : ha!!! - see google street view below - it's a very good match. I think the bay windows were added later. Some of the houses on the street dont have them.
    I'm not going to bother counting bricks...!

    294927.jpg




  • That just has to be the house. The details are just too similar for it not to be the same place.

    I'll see what I can dig up on Mrs. Maggie McGouran.

    BTW I've PMd the OP on reddit with this thread but it may be worth making your own post over there shanew.


  • Advertisement


  • Irishroots has a record of a 1881 marriage between Margaret Carson and a McGouran in Co. Down.




  • Ponster wrote: »
    That just has to be the house. The details are just too similar for it not to be the same place.

    I'll see what I can dig up on Mrs. Maggie McGouran.

    BTW I've PMd the OP on reddit with this thread but it may be worth making your own post over there shanew.

    thx - I've replied on there, with a link to here.




  • Ponster wrote: »
    Irishroots has a record of a 1881 marriage between Margaret Carson and a McGouran in Co. Down.

    even better, I had a quick search for that - thought it might be her sister

    everything screamed Co. Down... should have trusted that instinct earlier




  • forgot to post a Street View link in case anyone wants to browse... http://goo.gl/K7YDqQ




  • Just registered to thank everyone who has helped out. This is without question the house, even without the address from the passport application. I have PM's going on Reddit to make sure we split up the reward properly. You deserve it so much and I wish I had more to give.

    I might have to employ you guys to follow my own roots! I was in Ireland two years ago, to visit my cousin who my friend is traveling with. She and her mom (my grandmother's niece) took me to my grandmother's place of birth in the countryside close to Cavan, where her house used to be, and to the mailbox she used to walk through fields to - still standing. To her school as well. All so astounding and emotional for me. We lost her in 1994. I need to go back, and go deeper.....

    You live in an incredible place, and are just amazing, wonderful people....

    If you don't know from the Reddit thread, my friend and cousin are to be interviewed tomorrow on RTE's The Mooney Show at 3-4pm your time. People from Reddit were hammering news outlets to pick up this story. And I am sending them news that this house has been found. I will be linking them to this forum and the Daily Edge website.

    So many thanks,

    Hudson




  • lludson wrote: »
    You live in an incredible place, and are just amazing, wonderful people....

    Ah now....To be honest we're just a bunch of people with access to genealogy sites and excellent Google skills :)

    As I said on Reddit, I'll write up a little outline of how we got to where we did, including of course all those on reddit who are not here but helped a lot.

    The money is very generous but personally I would have paid you for the pleasure of the chase :)




  • Is there an upvote button somewhere? =)




  • shanew wrote: »
    even better, I had a quick search for that - thought it might be her sister

    everything screamed Co. Down... should have trusted that instinct earlier

    Yep. From the start I knew I had to ignore the mentions of Dublin in the OP on Reddit and then Co. Down started to appear all over the place. This was one of those "staring you in the face" searches :)




  • link to various N.I. directories in case these haven't been mentioned elsewhere :

    Street directories - PRONI covering 1819-1900
    Lennon Wylie excellent collection of directory transcriptions including the 1918 listing mentioned above.

    p.s. the 1913 Telephone Directory on the LennonWylie site includes listings for Dublin & Cork




  • Well done everyone! So proud of you. I'm only sorry I didn't have time to help on this one.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Advertisement


  • Well you've made The Daily Edge lads !


    Well done !

    :)




  • pinkypinky wrote: »
    Well done everyone! So proud of you. I'm only sorry I didn't have time to help on this one.

    Sorry I missed out on this - it was all sorted when I logged on this morning.




  • Great piece of detective work! Congratulations everyone. Followed the thread yesterday.




  • great detective work chaps! if you zoom in on the new bay window, upper left corner, you can still see part of the vent that appears in the original photo :)




  • Hi everyone. Shanew, I need you to PM me your Paypal for your reward. Same for Ponster. You guys were incredible.

    Hope some of you were able to tune into The Money Show in the last hour. The interview was great. My friend Tom did so well, as did Ponster, who called in.

    And it's not over yet. They were able to visit the address and leave a note on the door a few hours ago with the RTE's phone number. He ended up coming home to it and called in. They are doing another show when Tom and Camilla get to Belfast on Wednesday at 3pm. The person who lives there has welcomed Tom in for tea. And it will be broadcast.

    Just amazing. Thank you, everyone.

    Hudson


  • Boards.ie Community Manager


    For anyone who missed it, the show can be replayed here. Today's episode is not up just yet but I'm sure it will be available later today or some time tomorrow - you can choose the "Search for a Special House" on the menu on the right under today's date :)




  • Fantastic work folks, well done!!




  • I've put together some notes on the key elements of this search, for reference. Apologies in advance for any errors or omissions, documenting this is still a work in progress..

    see : Mystery Solved




  • Super sleuthing, Shane & co. Well done


  • Advertisement


  • This was a lot of fun to watch. I knew the skills were on here, I just watched until it was cracked. Well done everyone. I wish I had your skill.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement