Incident with motorist - advice

Micilin Muc

A few metres after exiting a roundabout this morning, a car buzzed me very closely. He blocked me at the next lights (pulled right into the kerb) and I went to have a chat with him. He was very angry and basically shouted at me before I got a word in edgeways. All he had to say was essentially "€10 million euro these cycle lanes cost. Use them" over and over. He wouldn't listen to why I was on the road, my reasons being:

• no dished kerb to enter the cycle lane from the roundabout (Browne Roundabout in Galway, travelling Westside to Quincentennial Bridge).
• apparently the law says I can use the road if I want despite the existence of a cycle lane.

I have two questions:

• If you think I should report this, who should I report it to? My aim would be to stop this motorist dangerously "proving a point" to cyclists. I have his reg.
• Does the legislation really allow me to use the road if I want? If so, is it a loophole in the legislation, or was it introduced to increase the safety of cyclists?

I commute over 50km a day by bike and I see all sorts of things, but this has really got me angry.

EDIT:
The point at which he blocked me off was about one metre before where the kerb disappears and the cycle lane becomes an on-road cycle lane. This is the point at which I join the cycle lane because it's safe there. Dangerous cycling would have been me stopping my bicycle at the roundabout exit to lift my wheel up the kerb to the cycle lane.

Chips Lovell

It's not a loophole. The legislation was changed specifically to remove the obligation to cycle in cycle lanes. It was changed after the National Cycle Policy Framework report recommended it. In short, you're entitled to be on the road and don't owe anyone an explanation.

If you feel he was driving in a dangerous and threatening manner then by all means report him. The next cyclist he decides to take it out on mightn't be so lucky.

Micilin Muc

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It's not a loophole. The legislation was changed specifically to remove the obligation to cycle in cycle lanes. It was changed after the National Cycle Policy Framework report recommended it. In short, you're entitled to be on the road and don't owe anyone an exclamation.

If you feel he was driving in a dangerous and threatening manner then by all means report him. The next cyclist he decides to take it out on mightn't be so lucky.

Thanks Vlad. That's very clear. I wish this was publicised in the RSA television ads.

Also, what do you think of a road safety/awareness sticky in the Cycling forum? For the benefit of cyclists and motorists. I appreciate that it's a can of worms, but I think something simple and brief with links to the legislation would be effective, in these quarters at least.

Have any other cyclsists got advice as to the most effective route of reporting this driver? Ring the Garda station, or ring the Traffic Watch lo-call number?

Iwannahurl

I know that roundabout, and it's a sick joke. Deliberately left in that state; the Council says it's the NRA's responsibility.

Report that driver for sure. I'm not sure whether I was being fobbed off or not, but on the last few occasions I reported dangerous driving I was told that AGS could not proceed unless I made a formal complaint.

You could try phoning Traffic Watch and ask them what the general procedure is first, before making a complaint about a specific incident.

Please also contact Galway City Council and ask them what their plans are for this dangerous junction. Then let us know what they said!

Micilin Muc

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Please also contact Galway City Council and ask them what their plans are for this dangerous junction. Then let us know what they said!

Cheers!

I thought the plan was to remove all these major roundabouts, but I haven't been in Galway long and don't know much about it.

I'm impressed with what they have done at the other roundabouts - particularly Lynch, Morris and Font. No major issues for me at these ones.

buffalo

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Also, what do you think of a road safety/awareness sticky in the Cycling forum? For the benefit of cyclists and motorists. I appreciate that it's a can of worms, but I think something simple and brief with links to the legislation would be effective, in these quarters at least.

Different people have different views on what constitutes 'safe cycling', but there's a thread on legislation (which is more clear-cut) at http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88726862

snubbleste

Sounds like a road rage incident to me.
Par for the course in Galway. At least the ranting driver is aware that the cycle lanes cost €10m :cool:

The Muppet

Micilin Muc wrote: »

He blocked me at the next lights (pulled right into the kerb)

I have no gripe about cyclist in general , I enjoy cycling myself but as a car driver also I find it annoying to have a cyclist overtake on my inside when I'm stopped at lights and then move out to block my path away from the lights, Its not like the bicycle will be quicker away from the lights than a car is it?

It's dangerous driving on the cyclist part imo.

Alek

In the road culture of motorists not indicating left turns often enough, I choose to be in the front of a vehicle that can potentially make a mash of me without warning.

07Lapierre

I'm a cyclist (not sure that's relevant), BUT when I'm driving i find it very annoying when I come across other inconsiderate road users regardless of their mode of transport.

Mugser

The Muppet wrote: »

I find it annoying to have a cyclist overtake on my inside when I'm stopped at lights and then move out to block my path away from the lights, Its not like the bicycle will be quicker away from the lights than a car is it?
.

Quite possibly could get away quicker, The reasons I'd go up the inside and then move out a bit are: 1) to make sure the driver of the 1st car in the queue sees me and; 2) to get out of the way incase that driver is turning left.

The Muppet

Alek wrote: »

In the road culture of motorists not indicating left turns often enough, I choose to be in the front of a vehicle that can potentially mash me without warning.

That's a bit of a feeble excuse isn't it as both cyclist and motrists would be stationary and the cyclist should be behind the car not beside it.

The Muppet

Mugser wrote: »

Quite possibly could get away quicker, The reasons I'd go up the inside and then move out a bit are: 1) to make sure the driver of the 1st car in the queue sees me and; 2) to get out of the way incase that driver is turning left.

Its inconsiderate by the cyclist, even if the car is turning left the cyclist is blocking their exit away from the lights.

07Lapierre

The Muppet wrote: »

Its inconsiderate by the cyclist, even if the car is turning left the cyclist is blocking their exit away from the lights.

Maybe the cyclist should jump the red light?

Iwannahurl

snubbleste wrote: »

At least the ranting driver is aware that the cycle lanes cost €10m :cool:

Taken directly from his own trouser pocket in the form of "road tax".

buffalo

The Muppet wrote: »

Its inconsiderate by the cyclist, even if the car is turning left the cyclist is blocking their exit away from the lights.

But if the motorist turns left they're blocking the cyclist from going straight on. :pac:

Nino Brown

Stopping too close to the kerb is an offence now?

Alek

That's a bit of a feeble excuse isn't it as both cyclist and motrists would be stationary and the cyclist should be behind the car not beside it.

I've witnessed one incident when both the car and cyclist were just starting from the lights and a friend of mine ended up under HGV in exactly the same circumstances.

Also, in both cases there was a cycle lane so the cyclist had right to be on the left of the car.


Please use your imagination a bit harder the next time.

Rogue-Trooper

The Muppet wrote: »

I have no gripe about cyclist in general , I enjoy cycling myself but as a car driver also I find it annoying to have a cyclist overtake on my inside when I'm stopped at lights and then move out to block my path away from the lights, Its not like the bicycle will be quicker away from the lights than a car is it?

It's dangerous driving on the cyclist part imo.

How is the cyclist's actions dangerous in that situation? Inconsiderate maybe (assuming they are not a fast cyclist away from the lights) but hardly dangerous.

Chips Lovell

If there's an advanced stop box there, then take it up with the county council, who've essentially legalised their moving ahead of you. If there isn't, then the cyclist is in the wrong by (presumably) crossing the stop line.

Mugser

The Muppet wrote: »

Its inconsiderate by the cyclist,

I don't care. As long as I'm safe!! I might hold the motorist up by 15-20 seconds at most.

Iwannahurl

The Muppet wrote: »

the cyclist should be behind the car not beside it.

OT, but I feel the need to ask: why?

In the OP's particular case there is a cycle lane at the traffic lights (assuming this is the location). When stopped at traffic signals cyclists should be ahead of traffic wherever possible, especially when cycle lanes place them inside vehicles which may be turning left.

Nino Brown

Mugser wrote: »

I don't care. As long as I'm safe!! I might hold the motorist up by 15-20 seconds at most.

Motorist should park right on the kerbs then, who cares as long they're safe, they might hold up a cyclist by 15-20 seconds at most.

beauf

The Muppet wrote: »

I have no gripe about cyclist in general , I enjoy cycling myself but as a car driver also I find it annoying to have a cyclist overtake on my inside when I'm stopped at lights and then move out to block my path away from the lights, Its not like the bicycle will be quicker away from the lights than a car is it?

It's dangerous driving on the cyclist part imo.

No sure how its dangerous if the car is stopped.

The idea is to give the cyclist priority in road position, which is safer. Its not about the first car at the lights either. Create your (as a cyclist) road position for the first car and the 10 cars following will do the same.

If you in a car you'll be delayed a maybe 30 sec to minute. You're in car that can do 100kph. Can you really not chill for a minute then overtake. Wheres the fire?

Micilin Muc wrote: »

A...He blocked me at the next lights (pulled right into the kerb) ....

Obviously this driver may not have done if for the correct reason, and I'd report them for their other actions, the close swipe.

But as a cyclist can take the lane to get priority, I think its a good idea for a left turning driver to go tight to the curb to take take priority at the junctions. Thus cyclist should line up behind them. Its just practical. Sure some cyclists will go around and in front. But none will be able to undertake you, as you indicate and turn left.

letape

The Muppet wrote: »

I find it annoying to have a cyclist overtake on my inside when I'm stopped at lights and then move out to block my path away from the lights, Its not like the bicycle will be quicker away from the lights than a car is it?

It's dangerous driving on the cyclist part imo.

At many junctions in Dublin and other cities (all over London) the area in front of the traffic lights have a bicycle marked on the ground - this is a bicycle staging area, specifically to allow cyclists gather in front of cars to allow them safely move forward when the lights turn green.

This is principally a safety measure which is more important than the additional 10 seconds a car might be delayed.

Iwannahurl

beauf wrote: »

I think its a good idea for a left turning driver to go tight to the curb to take take priority at the junctions. Thus cyclist should line up behind them. Its just practical. Sure some cyclists will go around and in front. But none will be able to undertake you, as you indicate and turn left.

Is it likely that a cyclist would be moving so fast that they would be in a position to undertake a vehicle turning left at a junction a good distance further on?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Nino Brown wrote: »

Motorist should park right on the kerbs then, who cares as long they're safe, they might hold up a cyclist by 15-20 seconds at most.

Except if you try that move without checking your mirrors or when the cyclist is in your blind spot you'll kill them. Plus if a cyclists hits a car you'll get minor paint damage. If a car hits a cyclist there'll probably be a serious injury. Cars do not need to be kept safe from bikes.

beauf

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Is it likely that a cyclist would be moving so fast that they would be in a position to undertake a vehicle turning left at a junction a good distance further on?

Yes happens in the time in slow moving traffic?

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Except if you try that move without checking your mirrors or when the cyclist is in your blind spot you'll kill them. Plus if a cyclists hits a car you'll get minor paint damage. If a car hits a cyclist there'll probably be a serious injury. Cars do not need to be kept safe from bikes.

The point of being tight to the kerb is that the cyclist can't go up the inside and into the left hand side blind spot. Its keeps the cyclist safe.

beauf

I don't have a problem waiting behind a car on the bike, or queuing with them in slow moving traffic. Seems to work fine. Once you can be seen by all traffic.

Only problem I've had is where on comming cars or cyclists, see a gap in a line of cars, and dive across blindly. This happens alot on the canal. So for that reason I'd never queue behind a tall vehicle, like a 4x4 or van. You can't be seen, and no one expects you there. If theres no one coming traffic, like on the quays you might treat it differently.

RobertFoster

I don't get blocking two wheeled vehicles from filtering to the front. It's an odd complaint, and if I try to imagine what'd be like if filtering was banned I picture long queues of cyclists, motorcyclists, and cars in single file.

As for the €10 million argument - who asked for so much to be spent on a two tone path? If that's what the paths cost, I imagine the roads cost a lot more... Maybe more should use the road to get money's worth.

beauf

Its not blocking filtering. its blocking undertaking a left turning vehicle. Important difference.

On the canal, at peak you can't turn left. Theres a constant stream of cyclists going up the inside of left indicating vehicles.

Its a bad habit. If I'm cycling, waiting to let a car turn left, makes no difference to my journey.

Iwannahurl

beauf wrote: »

Yes happens in the time in slow moving traffic?

Depending on road layout, motorists ought to be aware of the possibility of cyclists coming up on their left (since cyclists are advised that they "should" keep left).

Personally I never overtake on the left (undertake) near a junction.

As a motorist, when turning left I always allow for the possibility that a cyclist may be approaching from behind. If there's a likelihood that one is near enough and fast enough to undertake, then I wait until the road is clear. If I can complete the manoeuvre first, with no cyclist approaching, then I feel no need to "take priority" by going close to the kerb. I just drive around the corner as I normally do.

That said, it may not be so easy to describe all possible eventualities in a thread such as this.

Plastik

These threads make baby jesus cry.

Iwannahurl

Baby Jesus gave up on Boards a long time ago.

Tenzor07

A clear case of road rage OP, if you personally feel strongly about it then go to your local Gardai station and make a report, hopefully they will follow up on this and talk to the car driver.

From looking at the various forums this sort of incident is fairly common, and you can see the sort of angry hyperbole that pops up each and every time a Car vs. bike thread is opened..which ultimately serves no useful purpose..

All you can do is cycle in a manner that you deem safe, but do not expect the driver of a larger vehicle to have the same considerations for doing the right thing as you do, and expect the unexpected. Generally it's not good to engage someone in an argument at the roadside either IMO.

Micilin Muc

The Muppet wrote: »

I have no gripe about cyclist in general , I enjoy cycling myself but as a car driver also I find it annoying to have a cyclist overtake on my inside when I'm stopped at lights and then move out to block my path away from the lights, Its not like the bicycle will be quicker away from the lights than a car is it?

It's dangerous driving on the cyclist part imo.

The point at which he blocked me off was about one metre before where the kerb disappears and the cycle lane becomes an on-road cycle lane. This is the point at which I join the cycle lane because it's safe there. Dangerous cycling would have been me stopping my bicycle at the roundabout exit to lift my wheel up the kerb to the cycle lane.

beauf

Iwannahurl wrote: »

...That said, it may not be so easy to describe all possible eventualities in a thread such as this.

Exactly. My point was just as a cyclist sometimes I will take a road position to give me priority I would do the same in a car, depending on the situation. But if I see it, I wouldn't be put out by it.

Not that I think the motorist in the OP scenerio was doing that.

Iwannahurl

beauf wrote: »

Exactly. My point was just as a cyclist sometimes I will take a road position to give me priority I would do the same in a car, depending on the situation.

It's difficult to make specific comments about generalities.

However, in general I would say that motorists taking priority and cyclists taking priority in such situations are not comparable behaviours..

I'm more inclined to give a (law-abiding) cyclist both the benefit of the doubt and more road space. But that's not just a generality, it's also OT.

Pinch Flat

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Have any other cyclsists got advice as to the most effective route of reporting this driver? Ring the Garda station, or ring the Traffic Watch lo-call number?

Hi OP, looks like it's descended into the usual motorist / cyclist debate.

To answer your query - Traffic Watch is the place to report. You will have to follow this up with a statement at your local Garda station.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=111

In my experience they've taken these reports seriously - certainly from both times I reported them. They will ask you if you wish to press charges - it's your word against the drivers, unless there's any CCTV / head cam footage etc.

conkennedy

Plastik wrote: »

These threads make baby jesus cry.

I used this earlier....

Will someone please think of the children!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

Nino Brown

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Hi OP, looks like it's descended into the usual motorist / cyclist debate.

To answer your query - Traffic Watch is the place to report. You will have to follow this up with a statement at your local Garda station.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=111

In my experience they've taken these reports seriously - certainly from both times I reported them. They will ask you if you wish to press charges - it's your word against the drivers, unless there's any CCTV / head cam footage etc.

What do you report?
He drove too close? That's just a matter of opinion unless you measured the distance.
He parked too close to the kerb for cyclists to undertake? Is that even an offence

allez

I have to say some motorists are absolutely shocking in fairness. I can't keep track of the amount of time they attempt to over take you, don't quite get there, blind side you, fail to indicate and cut across you. There is also the impatient head-on motorist that always seems to try cut across your lane onto a turn without releasing cyclists can travel faster than pedestrians.

There usual response is put their hands up and say sorry while you give them the look of disbelief!

Micilin Muc

Nino Brown wrote: »

What do you report?
He drove too close? That's just a matter of opinion unless you measured the distance.
He parked too close to the kerb for cyclists to undertake? Is that even an offence

My goal in reporting him would be for him to realise that what he did was dangerous, so that he wouldn't do it again. Simple.

I wouldn't press charges, because nothing physically happened.

chopper6

Tenzor07 wrote: »

A clear case of road rage OP, if you personally feel strongly about it then go to your local Gardai station and make a report, hopefully they will follow up on this and talk to the car driver.

.

Yes...because giving out shiite to an inconsiderate cyclist is a criminal offence.

Maybe they should put all other cases on hold until this one has been dealt with :rolleyes:

You people are not living in anything like the real world i must say.

Chips Lovell

Can I remind people that this is the cycling forum, not the "rant about cyclists forum". Any trolling, off-topic or baiting posts from now on will be actioned.

Please report problematic posts. Don't respond on thread and drag the discussion off-topic.

Final warning.

buffalo

chopper6 wrote: »

Yes...because giving out shiite to an inconsiderate cyclist is a criminal offence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0006.html#zza2y1994s6

6.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to use or engage in any threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or being reckless as to whether a breach of the peace may be occasioned.

(2) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to both.

Micilin Muc

chopper6 wrote: »

Yes...because giving out shiite to an inconsiderate cyclist is a criminal offence.

Maybe they should put all other cases on hold until this one has been dealt with :rolleyes:

You people are not living in anything like the real world i must say.

Who said I was reporting a criminal offence?

Who said this case should put other cases on hold?

This guy drove dangerously and will continue to do so. He needs to be told not to do it.

What do you suggest?

Wait until he hits me and physically injures me? He drove in a threatening manner to a vulnerable road user.

redbedhead

chopper6 wrote: »

Yes...because giving out shiite to an inconsiderate cyclist is a criminal offence.

Maybe they should put all other cases on hold until this one has been dealt with :rolleyes:

You people are not living in anything like the real world i must say.

Surely there's a difference between just 'giving out ****e' and intimidating and aggressive behaviour, fuelled by a misinformed notion that the cyclist is in the wrong? What's wrong with a Garda setting him straight on his belief and possibly preventing this aggression happening again?
If that's what the traffic division are there for, let them decide if it warrants follow up.

chopper6

buffalo wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0006.html#zza2y1994s6

All he had to say was essentially "€10 million euro these cycle lanes cost. Use them"

Don't see any breach of the law in those words.

Nino Brown

buffalo wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0006.html#zza2y1994s6

Where is saying "€10 million euro these cycle lanes cost. Use them" over and over, covered under that statute?
Lets not forget the OP approached the driver and not the other way around.

I just don't see how there's anything to report here. The OP may not like what the driver did, if he feels the driver passed too close he can report it, but I doubt the guards would do anything and if they did would the driver really care?

dave1982

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Can I remind people that this is the cycling forum, not the "rant about cyclists forum". Any trolling, off-topic or baiting posts from now on will be actioned.

Please report problematic posts. Don't respond on thread and drag the discussion off-topic.

Final warning.

Yes this a cycling forum where a cyclist can rant about users of mechanically propelled vehicles.

I seen this at roundabouts loads of times cyclists flying up on the inside, car in front about to turn left next thing cyclists appears out of no where on his left and its it drivers fault of course.

A driver pulling in close to kerb stops a cyclist coming out of nowhere on his left if he is trying to turn left.

Seen it happen not so long ago at a roundabout in Cork.I was the 2nd car in line turning left, traffic started to move car in front took off to go left but had to slam on brakes because a fella on a bike overtook him on his inside.I t was very close to hitting him and me rear ending the driver in front of me.