Toll M1 closed

hawkwind23

cant find another thread on this.

the Toll booth on the M1 at the Duleek entrance has been closed the past few times ive passed.

2 points!

i have to use the basket , if i dont have exact change i have to pay an extra 10c.
if i dont have change i cant pay? what happens then?

after calling the celtic toll people i was told.

as i am now aware that the toll is closed from 10pm so its up to me to have the correct change or pay via intercom with CC.

should the local politicians not be questioning why 2 jobs have been lost due to the unmanning of the booth?

this seems very unfair on many levels!

surely the Toll companies make enough money not to staff a booth at the exit!

id like to see the Toll defenders come on and explain this!

00112984

How are trucks/buses meant to pay?

GoodisonPark

In my opinion if the booths are unmanned then the barriers should be raised.
I've been caught there before with only a €20 note in my wallet , no advance notice that the booths were unmanned and that correct change or credit card required.
Very unfair.

hawkwind23

00112984 wrote: »

How are trucks/buses meant to pay?

ive no idea.

i called them today after getting a contact number from the toll booth.
i asked for my change , id used the toll around 5 times so asked for 50c.
i was informed that after the 1st time i was then aware that the toll was unmanned at nights so it was my responsibility to have the correct change or put €2 in the basket.
i informed her that the toll was €1.90 and that i had no means of getting my 10c change.
she said i could use a credit card then over the intercom.
i said i wouldnt be doing that unless she could prove that the frequency used was secure because anyone could take my card details and security number.
she refused to answer that.

i asked, considering the lack of jobs in the area , why it was deemed necessary to lose one and possibly two members of staff with the closure of the toll.
i was told that was a political matter and the companies was making cutbacks.

ive contacted the local papers and some politicians to see if we can get a reasonable explanation for the job losses and inconvenience to drivers.

GoodisonPark

Good point re the security of the intercom.
I wonder what the legality of effectively creating a roadblock on a national motorway by failing to man the barriers is ??

moonshadow

This should also be in the Louth forum ie. shared .

rubberdungeon

The M3 Toll also closes at night, is it the case with other tolled roads around the country?

Jamie2k9

should the local politicians not be questioning why 2 jobs have been lost due to the unmanning of the booth?

Will you be concerned if tolls are increased to keep it open?

markpb

If you approached the toll and used the intercom to tell them that you have no credit card and don't want to overpay, what would they do? I assume they could issue you with a bill by post? The cost of a few people doing that each night should far exceed any cost savings.

I'm surprised the NRA have allowed this to happen. Having dealt with them before, they're usually very tight when it comes to contractors fully fulfilling the terms of their contract.

Five Lamps

Surely there must be minimum service levels in place with these operators? Requiring at least one manned lane to be open?

It is disgraceful given that the state is now paying millions to these operators as the traffic has fallen below certain levels.

Losty Dublin

While these booths ought to be manned as much as possible, the onus is still on a customer to have the right amount of money for any transaction wherever you may be as there is no legal entitlement to be given change should you over tender. OP, in fairness you know how much the toll is going to cost so you should endeavour to have the correct amount to hand or else be prepared to not access the M 1. There are also toll tags that you can use; get one and this issue won't affect you again.

I do agree with you that using the credit card via the intercom is madness

APM

anyone could sit in the bushes for a few hours at night and have a field day on the credit cards online in the morning. Absolute joke

L1011

Five Lamps wrote: »

Surely there must be minimum service levels in place with these operators? Requiring at least one manned lane to be open?

It is disgraceful given that the state is now paying millions to these operators as the traffic has fallen below certain levels.

The M1 contract has no such terms.

Plates

Solving the key issues of today one misguided rant at a time. As Fr. Ted used to say "Down with this sort of thing".

Has anyone called Joe?

markpb

Plates wrote: »

Solving the key issues of today one misguided rant at a time. As Fr. Ted used to say "Down with this sort of thing".

Has anyone called Joe?

How delightfully condescending.

GoodisonPark

It's interesting to note that at night the right hand barrier is kept down while the left hand one is left raised but with cones placed across in front of it.
Can anyone understand the logic behind this ?

corktina

emergency access?

Sam Russell

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Will you be concerned if tolls are increased to keep it open?

The toll prices are set by contract and are only increased in line with the consumer price index. If the CPI falls, then the toll prices fall.

They are breaking the contract if they are not manning the toll booths.

Kumsheen

Sam Russell wrote: »

They are breaking the contract if they are not manning the toll booths.

Are these terms of the contract, available to the public?

Sam Russell

Kumsheen wrote: »

Are these terms of the contract, available to the public?

Try the NRA.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Plates

It's after 10pm, everyone got their change handy?

Stheno

I got caught at the M4 toll going to Enfield which was unmanned at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon!

hawkwind23

as far as i remember the barrier is down so you cant get through by moving the cones.

Five Lamps

The fact of the matter, these toll gates have manned booths and the public perception is that there will be a manned change giving booth open at all times. It's not like Dublin Bus where everyone knows it's exact change only and there's signage to that effect.

If they are withdrawing staff and can't provide change then they should either install machines in some lanes that can provide change or install advance signage that indicates 'exact change only'.

hawkwind23

good point in contacting NRA
so done that and will await a reply.

Hello,
I am writing in relation to the night-time closure of the Toll Booths (both entrance and exit) at Duleek on the M1.
I have been informed that both close at 10PM and the onus is on me to have the correct change to pay the toll as I cant get change from the coin basket.
If I don’t have enough change or only notes then the only other option is to use the intercom to pay via credit card.
My problem with that is that the intercom is likely on an open frequency and giving my card details would pose a security risk.

I have contacted Celtic Roads Group who have little regard for my concerns.
They have informed me that due to cuts they have stopped manning the tolls and its only 10c if I don’t have exact change.
Failing that use the intercom which they couldn’t confirm was on a secure frequency.

What does the NRA have to say on the situation?
Is it acceptable to come to an unmanned Toll Booth late at night to find you have to pay €2 with no change or be encouraged to use an unsecured frequency to give out your card details.
If I fail to accept any of the above as within my rights then I cannot reverse down the Toll Road and am therefore stuck and liable to cause major delays.

Any further information welcome.

Mikros

Never mind giving your card details across an insecure intercom - what if you don't have a credit card to begin with? I'm really interested to know what would happen if you turned up with a €10 note and nothing else in that situation.

hawkwind23

Mikros wrote: »

Never mind giving your card details across an insecure intercom - what if you don't have a credit card to begin with? I'm really interested to know what would happen if you turned up with a €10 note and nothing else in that situation.

i was speaking to a friend about this and they said they got caught out like this , said they had only notes and the guy in front was the same , so they ended up having to go back along the cars asking for change!!!!

this seems a ridiculous situation to me , either lift the barrier or install a card reader or an option to take notes and give change

Uriel.

Mikros wrote: »

Never mind giving your card details across an insecure intercom - what if you don't have a credit card to begin with? I'm really interested to know what would happen if you turned up with a €10 note and nothing else in that situation.

Simple. Do an about turn or reverse back down the ramp onto the motorway and find the next available exit without a barrier.

Don't be making a mountain out of a molehill when there's a perfectly reasonable and safe alternative. :pac:

GoodisonPark

Uriel. wrote: »

Simple. Do an about turn or reverse back down the ramp onto the motorway and find the next available exit without a barrier.

Don't be making a mountain out of a molehill when there's a perfectly reasonable and safe alternative. :pac:

And add 15Km onto your journey at your own expense because of the operators incompetence ?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Uriel.

GoodisonPark wrote: »

And add 15Km onto your journey at your own expense because of the operators incompetence ?

Facepalm

Mikros

Uriel. wrote: »

Simple. Do an about turn or reverse back down the ramp onto the motorway and find the next available exit without a barrier.

Don't be making a mountain out of a molehill when there's a perfectly reasonable and safe alternative. :pac:

Ha, of course! Just make sure to stick on your hazard lights!

Seriously though, I would have thought the toll operators would have a service level agreement as part of the PPP project with the NRA to man the toll booths - be interesting to know if that is actually the case.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

GoodisonPark

I drove from Dundalk to the Donore exit tonight.
The only advance warning on the motorway is a sign just south of Monasterboice saying TOLL AHEAD EURO ONLY , no mention of toll charges and nothing about unmanned booths or having exact change ready.
The toll charge board is actually on the slip road just before the unmanned booths. I used the intercom and informed the operator that I only had a €5 note , got a spiel that I should have the correct coins , pay by toll tag or credit card , I said I had none of these , after a 2 min delay the barrier lifted and I drove through. Appalling service.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

GoodisonPark

Fred Swanson wrote: »

They really have no choice but to let you pass. Did they take any details so they could bill you later?

No , took no details over the intercom but I'm sure they have my reg plate on camera.
Incidentally while I was waiting I checked the coin reject tray and retrieved £2 sterling :-)

hawkwind23

excellent piece of civil disobedience sir
well played.
gonna try that myself next time

cullenswood

Stheno wrote: »

I got caught at the M4 toll going to Enfield which was unmanned at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon!

The Enfield toll is never manned...at any time of day or night

TireeTerror

Any update on the letter to the NRA about this?

I feel sorry for residents of Duleek, they only use a tiny portion of the private road if travelling from Dublin and they still have to pay. If they dont use the road, then its a fair trek around. The Government should have built these roads. END OF.

What happens to people driving on the M50 in foreign cars, such as the UK, do they get billed? Could they be taken to court in the UK, or if they were stopped by the Gardai another time, would they be in trouble?

highdef

I think moving the cones is the simplest way of getting through if if you don't have exact change. Is there any legal reason why you could not simply move the cones on the other lane?

GoodisonPark

Placing cones across the road is effectively closing the road.
I wonder if they followed the correct procedure , ie application to the local authority , notice in the local papers etc outlining advance notice of the closure ?

highdef

GoodisonPark wrote: »

Placing cones across the road is effectively closing the road.
I wonder if they followed the correct procedure , ie application to the local authority , notice in the local papers etc outlining advance notice of the closure ?

Very valid point!

Losty Dublin

highdef wrote: »

I think moving the cones is the simplest way of getting through if if you don't have exact change. Is there any legal reason why you could not simply move the cones on the other lane?

There is a bye law to the effect that you must pay the road toll on the M1. Lack of a facility to issue change isn't a defence for paying for any service; it's up to a customer to have the required fee on the day.

Wether the toll booth is manned or not is a matter between the tolling company and the NRA but certainly you or somebody should take this up with the NRA if it is the case that it should be manned on a 24/7 basis.

AlekSmart

Losty Dublin wrote: »

There is a bye law to the effect that you must pay the road toll on the M1. Lack of a facility to issue change isn't a defence for paying for any service; it's up to a customer to have the required fee on the day.

Wether the toll booth is manned or not is a matter between the tolling company and the NRA but certainly you or somebody should take this up with the NRA if it is the case that it should be manned on a 24/7 basis.

Very true....although anybody who viewed the Late Late Show appearance of Tom Gilmartin's son might well conclude that paying any more money to outfits such as these is simply sending good money after bad.

The moment I became aware of Liam Lawlor being hired as a "Consultant" on the WestLink/M50 project I decided to avoid when ever possible,sadly not an option for many.

We,as in the population,have recieved decidely poor value from the Toll Route Operators who have,in turn,benefited greatly from some of the most inept and,arguably,criminal contract negotiations in this State's history.

The veil of secrecy drawn around this by the Dept's of Transport and Environment and their respective Ministers,clings like a fog to Irish Political life....the full story is still being kept secret !

Losty Dublin

GoodisonPark wrote: »

Placing cones across the road is effectively closing the road.
I wonder if they followed the correct procedure , ie application to the local authority , notice in the local papers etc outlining advance notice of the closure ?

The road isn't closed off, though.

hawkwind23

my update on this thread is that i did spend several days contacting NRA , Celtic Roads Group and various politicians and journalists.

the only response i got was from Celtic Roads Group who sent me ONE voucher for €1.90 , they refused to apologise for any inconvenience.

every other group/person i contacted didn't even bother to write back despite sending letters and emails!

I just avoid it now and drive through Drogheda unless im really stuck
problem is that during the day it adds another half hour to get to Duleek

AlekSmart

hawkwind23 wrote: »

my update on this thread is that i did spend several days contacting NRA , Celtic Roads Group and various politicians and journalists.

the only response i got was from Celtic Roads Group who sent me ONE voucher for €1.90 , they refused to apologise for any inconvenience.

every other group/person i contacted didn't even bother to write back despite sending letters and emails!

I just avoid it now and drive through Drogheda unless im really stuck
problem is that during the day it adds another half hour to get to Duleek

A-HA !!

Perhaps it's coincidence,but it's a little unnerving to see the highly placed members of the,by now infamous, last FF Cabinet rather suddenly being dragged out,dusted off,and placed back in circulation.....although,it might allow for further (closer) examination of their decisions back inn the Day ?

You omitted to contact this MAN ?

Gone,forgotten and now back again, and,he does know his way around the various Toll Franchisee's ...:)

http://www.herald.ie/news/dempsey-to-lead-firm-to-transform-temple-bar-30184140.html

Lotsa iffy stuff surrounding these Toll Franchise contracts.....once the threads start being pulled,who knows where it'll lead ?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/dundalk-toll-road-operator-sues-over-alleged-outstanding-debt-of-157m-211673.html

TireeTerror

How about just crushing the cones at night.....Ive an old Land Rover Discovery that could be put to good use mincing them on a nightly basis until they give in and man the thing.

flazio

Interestingly the M6 has introduced this new pay machine for tolls that promises that it does give out change. There's still a staffed booth beside it though.

Banjoxed

AlekSmart wrote: »

Very true....although anybody who viewed the Late Late Show appearance of Tom Gilmartin's son might well conclude that paying any more money to outfits such as these is simply sending good money after bad.

The moment I became aware of Liam Lawlor being hired as a "Consultant" on the WestLink/M50 project I decided to avoid when ever possible,sadly not an option for many.

We,as in the population,have recieved decidely poor value from the Toll Route Operators who have,in turn,benefited greatly from some of the most inept and,arguably,criminal contract negotiations in this State's history.

The veil of secrecy drawn around this by the Dept's of Transport and Environment and their respective Ministers,clings like a fog to Irish Political life....the full story is still being kept secret !

And to say nothing about the M3 - the greatest outdoor relief scheme for the deserving rich since the foundation of the State.