How to get job in Software Engineering/Development for Graduate

NeoSD5

As title says,

I'm graduate in BSc in Software Development, completed a 3 year course. Its now 1.5 months I'm looking for a job, through jobbridge and other websites.

Was lucky to get interview, passed first interview, was invited for second but failed on technical interview, because the technologies they used did not match the one I have learned in college.

Still applying everywhere but no calls yet, and I am applying as an Intern! Trying to find job in Software Development, Java programmer or Web Development.

So what is my mistake?
Keep looking for jobs?
Is it good idea to get a job as IT technician/support? And then move to Software Development?
Is there much difference in BSc ordinary/ BSc honours? Maybe come back to college and get higher diploma? Or better get experience in any IT related jobs.

Thank you for advices

Black_Knight

Id say its just bad timing. Q1 isn't a great time (in my experience) for hiring. Where I work, usually Q2-Q3 is when ya start seeing a few new fresh faces.

NeoSD5

Black_Knight wrote: »

Id say its just bad timing. Q1 isn't a great time (in my experience) for hiring. Where I work, usually Q2-Q3 is when ya start seeing a few new fresh faces.

Do you mean bad time for IT jobs now?

Colonel Panic

Good time for IT jobs if you have the experience. Bad time for new hires.

Honours degree and portfolio would go a long way when it comes to getting your foot in the door, too.

BrokenArrows

It also wont hurt to start your own project while you are looking.
It will keep your skills sharp/learn new ones and when it comes to interview time you can bring it up or they might ask. It shows an interest in your chosen line of work rather than just being someone who completed a degree because they had nothing better to do.

NeoSD5

BrokenArrows wrote: »

It also wont hurt to start your own project while you are looking.
It will keep your skills sharp/learn new ones and when it comes to interview time you can bring it up or they might ask. It shows an interest in your chosen line of work rather than just being someone who completed a degree because they had nothing better to do.

thats interestning. thanks

NeoSD5

Any more advices lads? What do you think best thing to do in this situation?

Graham

Have a look through the other posts in the Development forum that have asked this question. The same suggestions probably still apply.

everdead.ie

NeoSD5 wrote: »

As title says,

I'm graduate in BSc in Software Development, completed a 3 year course. Its now 1.5 months I'm looking for a job, through jobbridge and other websites.

Was lucky to get interview, passed first interview, was invited for second but failed on technical interview, because the technologies they used did not match the one I have learned in college.

Still applying everywhere but no calls yet, and I am applying as an Intern! Trying to find job in Software Development, Java programmer or Web Development.

So what is my mistake?
Keep looking for jobs?
Is it good idea to get a job as IT technician/support? And then move to Software Development?
Is there much difference in BSc ordinary/ BSc honours? Maybe come back to college and get higher diploma? Or better get experience in any IT related jobs.

Thank you for advices

Have you tried Grad Ireland? I know there are a few there.
Also where are you located are you willing to move?

NeoSD5

everdead.ie wrote: »

Have you tried Grad Ireland? I know there are a few there.
Also where are you located are you willing to move?

Mostly its Jobbridge, will have more look to Grad Ireland. Yes I want to move, just wondering do I have to mention that on my CV??

everdead.ie

NeoSD5 wrote: »

Mostly its Jobbridge, will have more look to Grad Ireland. Yes I want to move, just wondering do I have to mention that on my CV??

No need to mention it on your CV your home address will already be on it they will assume that if you are willing to move for the job. I noticed a few jobs in Dublin there and a few really cool ones outside of Ireland as well one sends you to work in Tokyo which would be pretty unreal although not as a developer but as an IT consultant all network type stuff.

Overflow

NeoSD5 wrote: »

As title says,

I'm graduate in BSc in Software Development, completed a 3 year course. Its now 1.5 months I'm looking for a job, through jobbridge and other websites.

Was lucky to get interview, passed first interview, was invited for second but failed on technical interview, because the technologies they used did not match the one I have learned in college.

Still applying everywhere but no calls yet, and I am applying as an Intern! Trying to find job in Software Development, Java programmer or Web Development.

So what is my mistake?
Keep looking for jobs?
Is it good idea to get a job as IT technician/support? And then move to Software Development?
Is there much difference in BSc ordinary/ BSc honours? Maybe come back to college and get higher diploma? Or better get experience in any IT related jobs.

Thank you for advices

Move to Scandinavia

NeoSD5

Overflow wrote: »

Move to Scandinavia

I don't think its a good idea to move anywhere from Ireland, without any IT experience

Overflow

NeoSD5 wrote: »

I don't think its a good idea to move anywhere from Ireland, without any IT experience

Ireland, another country, whats the difference ? You still don't have the experience. I did it, straight out of college, moved to Norway, haven't looked back since. Senior Developer now in an offshore shipping company. There are a lot of jobs in IT here at the moment, a lot of them looking for graduates. Its a great time to get a job here as long as you can pass the technical interviews and are good at what you do. The language is not a problem, that goes for Sweden, Norway and Denmark where nearly everyone speaks very good English. Its easy to learn as you go.

Overflow

Oh yeah the salaries are much....MUCH better !

Overflow

If you want some help looking for a job, just let me know. Norway is an amazing place to live and your only a 2 hour flight away from home

Colonel Panic

Do you work in IT for the Norwegian tourist board? :P

Seriously though, what sort of development work is to be had in Norway?

Overflow

Yes it do

What sort ? You say that like you skeptical there should be any.

Any kind of development job you can find in Ireland really, in a much stronger economy. Starting salary for graduates/junior roles with a BSc is approx 40-45k.

red_bairn

OP, did you go to the Career Zoo during the weekend? Have you went to Start Up events like DubStarts? Have you met other developers through groups on MeetUp?

I completed my Masters in Computer Science (Skills Conversion)at UCD back in Dec, 2013. My mate told me about this paid internship as a web developer at a charity that he was interested in but he didn't have the qualifications to apply. He sent me the link and I applied. The day after the interview I was offered the job. Pretty lucky tbh.

If you are willing, state in emails/cover letters that you are interested in an internship if no entry level jobs are available.

srsly78

Overflow wrote: »

Yes it do

What sort ? You say that like you skeptical there should be any.

Any kind of development job you can find in Ireland really, in a much stronger economy. Starting salary for graduates/junior roles with a BSc is approx 40-45k.

That's the same money mcdonald's workers get paid over there. Also remember tax is high and a pint costs the equivalent of over a tenner :pac:

Overflow

srsly78 wrote: »

That's the same money mcdonald's workers get paid over there. Also remember tax is high and a pint costs the equivalent of over a tenner :pac:

I think you are mistaken. They get paid no where near that, sorry.

If pints are no.1 on your list when choosing a country to live in, you doing it wrong!

Sparks

Overflow wrote: »

If pints are no.1 on your list when choosing a country to live in, you doing it wrong!

And probably Norway wouldn't be on the top of your list either.
Not a horrid place to be, and Sweden and Finland are nice as well if you think that hundreds of miles of flat frozen tundra is pretty (and it is)... but it wouldn't be for everyone I think.

ChRoMe

Sparks wrote: »

And probably Norway wouldn't be on the top of your list either.
Not a horrid place to be, and Sweden and Finland are nice as well if you think that hundreds of miles of flat frozen tundra is pretty (and it is)... but it wouldn't be for everyone I think.

Their women sure are pretty though

I've a mate that just came back from 5 years in Oslo, his main complaint was the Norwegian people being a bit dry and not capable of having the craic so to speak.

long range shooter

Overflow wrote: »

Oh yeah the salaries are much....MUCH better !

So is the women:D:D:D

long range shooter

ChRoMe wrote: »

Their women sure are pretty though

I've a mate that just came back from 5 years in Oslo, his main complaint was the Norwegian people being a bit dry and not capable of having the craic so to speak.

Thats because he hasnt met the right people and living in the wrong place in Norway:D:D:D

Sparks

ChRoMe wrote: »

I've a mate that just came back from 5 years in Oslo, his main complaint was the Norwegian people being a bit dry and not capable of having the craic so to speak.

I've heard that said about the Finns, and it's taught me to recognise when someone doesn't know what they're on about

Seriously, I've met Finns who had an incredible sense of humour, but you had to listen to what they were saying because they didn't put on clown makeup to tell the punchline. Like one lad who spent the better part of a half-hour over lunch one day telling me about how environmental work was terribly important to the planet and how it was the thing that would save us all in the end and how we owed it to our kids to work in that area and how as a result - we're 20 minutes into the chat at this point - he was involved in an environmental project with a company called Lapua.

Some of you can already see the punchline coming.

Here's the project he was involved in: Naturalis, an all-copper bullet for shooting reindeer without the environmental concerns from lead bullets. Helping the environment by punching fist-sized holes in reindeer from 200 meters away without risking 2 grammes of lead getting into the water table 300 miles of frozen tundra away from the nearest major town...

Finns have a sense of humour allright, but it puts Norwegian slow TV to shame in its buildup and then it undersells the punchline.
But if you're listening, you will wind up literally falling off your chair laughing in a fairly crowded cafeteria as a result.

Thing is, like Norwegian slow TV, it's not for everyone...
...so maybe the OP needs more general advice?

NeoSD5

Just to update, started to get more calls and offering more interviews at the moment, so hopefully will be lucky to get something interesting

ChRoMe

Sparks wrote: »

I've heard that said about the Finns, and it's taught me to recognise when someone doesn't know what they're on about

Seriously, I've met Finns who had an incredible sense of humour, but you had to listen to what they were saying because they didn't put on clown makeup to tell the punchline. Like one lad who spent the better part of a half-hour over lunch one day telling me about how environmental work was terribly important to the planet and how it was the thing that would save us all in the end and how we owed it to our kids to work in that area and how as a result - we're 20 minutes into the chat at this point - he was involved in an environmental project with a company called Lapua.

Some of you can already see the punchline coming.

Here's the project he was involved in: Naturalis, an all-copper bullet for shooting reindeer without the environmental concerns from lead bullets. Helping the environment by punching fist-sized holes in reindeer from 200 meters away without risking 2 grammes of lead getting into the water table 300 miles of frozen tundra away from the nearest major town...

Finns have a sense of humour allright, but it puts Norwegian slow TV to shame in its buildup and then it undersells the punchline.
But if you're listening, you will wind up literally falling off your chair laughing in a fairly crowded cafeteria as a result.

Thing is, like Norwegian slow TV, it's not for everyone...
...so maybe the OP needs more general advice?

I like the way you countered my anecdote with your own one

Dantes_Legacy

Would you be interested in embedded Linux development at all? The last two places I have worked have been all embedded Linux development.

I originally did an electronic engineering course, graduated in 2010, slummed it with two small companies (cause there was nothing else out there at the time), got some programming experience and then got hired by a place down in Limerick.

Looks like there is a serious shortage of embedded Linux developers in Ireland as they were willing to take on people who could program C and had some initiative. Working up in Dublin (where I wanted to work initially) and still get calls now and then from recruiters. Happy where I am and get paid well.

I would have had a good bit of C coding experience programming microchips/microprocessors and such from college. Haven't looked back since doing all the Linux stuff. Will definitely stick with it. So I would recommend getting yourself a Raspberry Pi and tinkering around with it. The type of people I work for would love to hear that you can understand a system like that (hardware and software).

Won't name any names, but there are definitely jobs in Dublin and Limerick for this. Only caveat is that you will probably have to do a year or two (at least) slumming it before you can get the good jobs you really want.

One thing I will say is that you should never settle in a place too long if it doesn't feel right. Do a year and get another job. Any less and recruiters will wonder why you seem to be jumping around the place. It's very easy to settle for a mediocre job when you come out of college.

neil_hosey

read.. and learn.. you have the time.. theres hundreds of brilliant books online.. theres thousands of youtube videos also

General things to learn about:

Object Oriented basics!! classes, objects, interfaces, abstract classes, whats the difference between an abstract class and an interface? Why use interfaces?, why do we need inheritance? Whats the difference between inheritance and composition? benefits of both? etc

Design Patterns (specifically gang of four) how they are used and why.. have a knowledge of the 10-15 most used ones!! (Strategy,Observer,Factory Method, Abstract Factory,prototype,decorator, facade, command) etc ..


Be comfortable with the SOLID principles and the reasons for their use.. these are so important imho.. what is inversion of control, why is it good?


How cohesion and coupling can affect software.. what are they? how layering an application can help reduce coupling and increase cohesion..


Learn what AOP is and what the benefits are.. (reduction in boiler plate code..)

Learn some javascript as its pretty easy to pick up (similar to java and c# in syntax, you must have done one of them in collegE)

Unit Testing, the benefits? why bother doing it? Test driven development, why is it good?

What are ORM's, Whats the benefits? (ease of use, fluent api, auto migrations, no SQL/Stored Procedures needed, versioning of your DB through the domain etc). what are the disadvantages? ( slow, cumbersome, heavy,abstract too much away)

Version Control(SVN/Mercurial for Java... TFS/SVN for .NET (Github for all))

if you done java in college:

learn:
1. Learn how Hibernate works
2. Learn how the Spring container works (Spring Data, IOC Container,
3. Maven/Ant


If you done c#/vb.net in college:

1. Learn how EntityFramework works (ORM)
2. WCF basics, create a simple app, DAO layer, Business Logic layer, Service layer, and web layer. (see the nerddinner example for what this should look like!!)
3. MVC pattern, have an understanding of what it is, how MS makes it so much easier with their implementation of MVC (ASP.net MVC).
4. Inversion of Control containers (Unity, CastleWindsor or one of them)

if you can talk for a few minutes confidently even half of this , you will be a valuable software developer because in my experience these arent focused on in college for the vast majority of grads... which is mind boggling!!

If you have a core understanding of OO development (ie. 6 points above) , you will get a job, it wont matter what technologies you wont know.

I dont mean to overload you or anything but if I had been reading this stuff 7 years ago when I left college, I would have made it alot easier on myself

Good luck in the search.. and apologies if the answer is a bit all over the place..

NeoSD5

neil_hosey wrote: »

read.. and learn.. you have the time.. theres hundreds of brilliant books online.. theres thousands of youtube videos also

General things to learn about:

Object Oriented basics!! classes, objects, interfaces, abstract classes, whats the difference between an abstract class and an interface? Why use interfaces?, why do we need inheritance? Whats the difference between inheritance and composition? benefits of both? etc

Design Patterns (specifically gang of four) how they are used and why.. have a knowledge of the 10-15 most used ones!! (Strategy,Observer,Factory Method, Abstract Factory,prototype,decorator, facade, command) etc ..


Be comfortable with the SOLID principles and the reasons for their use.. these are so important imho.. what is inversion of control, why is it good?


How cohesion and coupling can affect software.. what are they? how layering an application can help reduce coupling and increase cohesion..


Learn what AOP is and what the benefits are.. (reduction in boiler plate code..)

Learn some javascript as its pretty easy to pick up (similar to java and c# in syntax, you must have done one of them in collegE)

Unit Testing, the benefits? why bother doing it? Test driven development, why is it good?

What are ORM's, Whats the benefits? (ease of use, fluent api, auto migrations, no SQL/Stored Procedures needed, versioning of your DB through the domain etc). what are the disadvantages? ( slow, cumbersome, heavy,abstract too much away)

Version Control(SVN/Mercurial for Java... TFS/SVN for .NET (Github for all))

if you done java in college:

learn:
1. Learn how Hibernate works
2. Learn how the Spring container works (Spring Data, IOC Container,
3. Maven/Ant


If you done c#/vb.net in college:

1. Learn how EntityFramework works (ORM)
2. WCF basics, create a simple app, DAO layer, Business Logic layer, Service layer, and web layer. (see the nerddinner example for what this should look like!!)
3. MVC pattern, have an understanding of what it is, how MS makes it so much easier with their implementation of MVC (ASP.net MVC).
4. Inversion of Control containers (Unity, CastleWindsor or one of them)

if you can talk for a few minutes confidently even half of this , you will be a valuable software developer because in my experience these arent focused on in college for the vast majority of grads... which is mind boggling!!

If you have a core understanding of OO development (ie. 6 points above) , you will get a job, it wont matter what technologies you wont know.

I dont mean to overload you or anything but if I had been reading this stuff 7 years ago when I left college, I would have made it alot easier on myself

Good luck in the search.. and apologies if the answer is a bit all over the place..

That's really good point and answer, thank you! Will do something that you wrote, I think its very good

neil_hosey

NeoSD5 wrote: »

That's really good point and answer, thank you! Will do something that you wrote, I think its very good

no problem, if you don't get anything drop me a PM if you want I can direct you/help you with it..

bpmurray

What you have to do is show that you're really interested in the industry. If you get the chance, teach - it's a great way to illustrate you know what you're talking about (volunteer at your local CoderDojo or help some silver surfers). Try joining an opensource project - there are loads and they're alweays looking for help. Basically put your geek hat on!

interestedman

Overflow wrote: »

Move to Scandinavia

Interesting you should say that, I would advise looking in this region too, even with little experience. I am going out there next Monday for 2 or 3 weeks software work.... Apparently it is very difficult for them to find people from Ireland who will go over.

congress3

I imagine you would be fairly far behind most graduates with the Ordinary (3 Yr) Degree, as in my experience most students do the Hons (4 Yr) Degree.

The Ordinary lvl degree can be ok but generally it needs to be coupled with a at least a year or more experience.
I see you are applying for Jobsbridge roles though so may be more likely to hire someone with an Ordinary lvl degree.

Best of luck with the hunt OP

RealistSpy

I got a Job before finishing my 4th year.
I would advice you to code a lot ad contribute to the community. Try out different technologies followed by focusing on one. Portfolio would also go a long way and try come out with something unique. In addition read other peoples codes seriously read them.