Should zebo have been picked? [MOD WARNING POST #1]

ceannbui

reasons why and who should be dropped, if you like.

how do you include a poll on these threads?

MOD WARNING: Consider this your first and final warning. Any dickish posts or anything that could be construed as trolling or just adding noise then you will be infracted or banned.

No speculation on players lives/lifestyle - stick to the rugby and the facts.

If you have to think about how the post will be received it's better to just not post it at all.

rrpc

You forgot the Andy Powell option

Akrasia

I don't see why a dynamic on form player who was good enough for the Lions squad isn't good enough to at least be on the bench for Ireland.

rrpc

I posted this on the buildup thread, so here it is for context.

We can't really start making wild assumptions about this or we're into tinfoil hat territory. He hasn't played a single six nations game yet, the first two because of just coming back from injury. He's had a couple of games for Munster to prove his fitness, but this is England at Twickenham; hardly the place to be starting a young winger for his first six nations game.

Fergus McFadden who was so good during the autumn internationals hasn't been able to move off the bench having had a less immobilising injury than Zebo.

But why are we talking down D. Kearney and Trimble so much? What have they done wrong? In two games where the forwards dominated possession, they've made over a quarter of the clean breaks of the entire team (including subs) put together, they've put huge pressure on their opposite numbers and defended everything that came their way and more.

Why can't the question be about what they've done to deserve dropping? It's like there's absolutely nothing they can do that could possibly deserve their inclusion.

ceannbui

oops! is that a thing on rugby boards? saw it on a poll and thought it was funny but thought no more of it.

I don't think he should be picked for this game because I can't think of a reason to rotate Trimble or D Kearny out, basically

on the river

YES YES YES. HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PICKED. Trimble lacks the creativity and flare that zebo has . My back five are .

kearney gilroy ,BOD , DARCY AND ZEBO

bazza1

Kearney and Trimble are better defenders at the moment. They offer more as defenders AND attackers than Zebo imho. Zebo is a top attacker and should get a run against Italy, i think.

Zeebs

Akrasia wrote: »

I don't see why a dynamic on form player who was good enough for the Lions squad isn't good enough to at least be on the bench for Ireland.

Maybe because you've no idea what are the real reasons.

There's a reason why there hasn't been a fuss kicked up in the media about his ommission by journalists in the know. I would suggest that is because there is a valid reason that isn't fit for public consumption.

on the river

bazza1 wrote: »

Kearney and Trimble are better defenders at the moment. They offer more as defenders AND attackers than Zebo imho. Zebo is a top attacker and should get a run against Italy, i think.

Attack is the best form of defence. zebo has pace and vision which trimble lacks. trimble is good but i always thought he was a centre rather then a winger

rrpc

Zeebs wrote: »

Maybe because you've no idea what are the real reasons.

There's a reason why there hasn't been a fuss kicked up in the media about his ommission by journalists in the know. I would suggest that is because there is a valid reason that isn't fit for public consumption.

I know you can't tell us exactly, but is whatever it is fixable?

rrpc

on the river wrote: »

Attack is the best form of defence. zebo has pace and vision which trimble lacks. trimble is good but i always thought he was a centre rather then a winger

If we're traveling down the road towards clichéville, then I'll play this one:

Offense wins matches, defense wins championships.

Barzipan

I think he should be in the 33 man squad but not the match day squad. Nobody denies he's exciting and dangerous going forward and I think he'd benefit from working with Joe on the other areas of his game that he thinks he's weak in. McFadden or Jones probably the players I'd consider dropping.

Iang87

Yes in my opinion and I'd have taken out Jones for him simply because I cant see jones making the matchday 23 and if he did it would purely be for cover at FB and Zebo could offer that. Cant really justify any reason to take mcfadden or trimble out.

As for trimble lacking creativity I can see the argument but he also brings a level of consistency to almost every performance. Makes planning for games much easier when you know what you're getting.

usersame

smith is sending out a message surely, and much needed too, cop on and stop acting like a langer on and off the pitch. I was at munster zebre in cork on sat and there was a good but of dissatisfaction in the crowd with the way he runs the ball ,so dramamtically takes a high ball, and his lack of passing

But I do think him and Bowe are our best wingers, Trimble and DK wouldn't be up to much after realistically

thomas anderson.

All style and no substance. Think his ego is getting in the way.

on the river

rrpc wrote: »

If we're traveling down the road towards clichéville, then I'll play this one:

Offense wins matches, defense wins championships.

defence wins championships yet offense wins GRAND SLAMS;)

awec

No speculation about the private lives of players.

Alpha Dog 1

Is the question should he be picked for the squad or to start?

I don't think he should start but it's a travesty that he can't even make a 33 man Irish squad which has a number of injuries. Not looking good for him in the long run with Joe involved.

rrpc

thomas anderson. wrote: »

All style and no substance. Think his ego is getting in the way.

Ah now, that's a bit harsh. He's a guy who strikes me as one of those irrepressible spirits who loves a laugh and a joke. He's got bags of talent and enjoys his game and his career.

But for me, he's got to prove himself a better option than Kearney, Trimble and McFadden and the one feature that strikes me about the three of them is their incredible commitment and work ethic.

on the river

Iang87 wrote: »

Yes in my opinion and I'd have taken out Jones for him simply because I cant see jones making the matchday 23 and if he did it would purely be for cover at FB and Zebo could offer that. Cant really justify any reason to take mcfadden or trimble out.

As for trimble lacking creativity I can see the argument but he also brings a level of consistency to almost every performance. Makes planning for games much easier when you know what you're getting.

GETTING RIGID NARROWNESS. Trimbe is an inside centre never was a winger. when bowe comes back he will be dropped

awec

thomas anderson. wrote: »

All style and no substance. Think his ego is getting in the way.

This is the sort of post that will see action taken against posters.

former legend

on the river wrote: »

defence wins championships yet offense wins GRAND SLAMS;)

Like it did in 2009? Sure it was like 7s rugby at times, we were running them in for fun.

dregin

Where's the "Joe has a plan. I trust Joe. Suck it up." option?

Akrasia

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Is the question should he be picked for the squad or to start?

I don't think he should start but it's a travesty that he can't even make a 33 man Irish squad which has a number of injuries. Not looking good for him in the long run with Joe involved.

He'll get his chance to prove himself in the Heineken Cup Quarter Final and hopefully the Semi-Final.

I think Schmidt will pick the players that he has the most confidence in. If Zebo makes a strong case in a highly competitive match like the HEC knockout games, he'll move ahead in the pecking order.

rrpc

on the river wrote: »

GETTING RIGID NARROWNESS. Trimbe is an inside centre never was a winger. when bowe comes back he will be dropped

I do not agree. Trimble is a very average centre, but an excellent winger and always has been. He's one of those guys that will get you a try if he has the ball and three or four metres to go regardless of defenders. He has done it so many times for Ulster and Ireland and never gets the credit he's due.

Never had a problem with him playing for Ireland.

on the river

rrpc wrote: »

I do not agree. Trimble is a very average centre, but an excellent winger and always has been. He's one of those guys that will get you a try if he has the ball and three or four metres to go regardless of defenders. He has done it so many times for Ulster and Ireland and never gets the credit he's due.

Never had a problem with him playing for Ireland.

This may change your mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=046s-F6OiFQ

awec

on the river wrote: »

This may change your mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=046s-F6OiFQ

The flick means nothing.

ScissorPaperRock

On the bright side, if his omission is related to work-rate or something Joe feels Zebo needs to work on, this could be the making of him.

He is such a talented player, that if Joe is encouraging him to hone it in a certain way, it might be a very good thing.

Neil3030

Schmidt is still in the honeymoon period for me; and given that he favours a holistic system over reliance on individual brilliance, I could live with the omission of a potentially exciting player, if he deems appropriate.

.ak

awec wrote: »

The flick means nothing.

In fairness I think it does. It might not apply to him being involved in a squad but there isn't many in Ireland who'd try that/get away it. He is the very definition of x-factor. But Joe has a good reason for not including him, and you'd have to think it's all about the precision Joe wants to bring to the Irish squad.

I don't for a second believe it has anything to do with his attitude.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

I'm willing to give Schmidt the benefit of the doubt because he's been spot on with selection so far

That said, I still think we're very light on cutting edge out wide. I know Trimble was very good in this regard against Wales but he'll need to keep this level of performance up for the rest of the championship

awec

.ak wrote: »

In fairness I think it does. It might not apply to him being involved in a squad but there isn't many in Ireland who'd try that/get away it. He is the very definition of x-factor. But Joe has a good reason for not including him, and you'd have to think it's all about the precision Joe wants to bring to the Irish squad.

I don't for a second believe it has anything to do with his attitude.

Not for me. He did a flick, it worked out so fair enough. For me it doesn't improve his chances with Ireland, it isn't indicative of anything really.

His flick against Wales 12 months ago is not a reason to include him in the squad now.

Brewster

rrpc wrote: »

I do not agree. Trimble is a very average centre, but an excellent winger and always has been. He's one of those guys that will get you a try if he has the ball and three or four metres to go regardless of defenders. He has done it so many times for Ulster and Ireland and never gets the credit he's due.

Never had a problem with him playing for Ireland.

Nail on head, one of the most under rated finishers in squad. Trimble will always always score from a few metres out. Delighted to see Trimbs get some credit on here. I have been championing his case for years and will continue to do so, and always feel fully vindicated in doing this. The guy is just great player and now he getting his chance in his natural position he is proving this to all his doubters. There is not a chance Zebo deserves to be starting at 14 ahead of Trimbs, Zebo is not a right winger for one. Very few had Trimbs in their team for Scotland, but very few would leave him out for Saturday either. This is rugby boards.ie progress!!

rrpc

on the river wrote: »

This may change your mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=046s-F6OiFQ

Nope. One swallow does not a summer make*. I liked that flick, but it doesn't mean anything other than a bit of footballing skill.





*Still inside clichéville city limits

on the river

Brewster wrote: »

Nail on head, one of the most under rated finishers in squad. Trimble will always always score from a few metres out. Delighted to see Trimbs get some credit on here. I have been championing his case for years and will continue to do so, and always feel fully vindicated in doing this. The guy is just great player and now he getting his chance in his natural position he is proving this to all his doubters. There is not a chance Zebo deserves to be starting at 14 ahead of Trimbs, Zebo is not a right winger for one. Few few had Trimbs in their team for Scotland, but very few would leave him out for Saturday either. This is rugby boards.ie progress!!

as you said trimble will score from a few metres out. he is not a game changer. zebo can make line breaks and open up the play. i admit that trimble gives good hard work rate but that all he gives

.ak

awec wrote: »

Not for me. He did a flick, it worked out so fair enough. For me it doesn't improve his chances with Ireland, it isn't indicative of anything really.

His flick against Wales 12 months ago is not a reason to include him in the squad now.

Class is permanent, form is temporary (to keep rrpc happy in cliché land).

I have no doubt Zebo is one of the most naturally gifted rugby players in this country.

Is he potentially better than any of the wingers in the current squad? Absolutely.

Should he be included in the squad because of that? Absolutely not.

Podge_irl

The real question is just how disappointed is Ryle Nugent.

.ak

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I'm willing to give Schmidt the benefit of the doubt because he's been spot on with selection so far

That said, I still think we're very light on cutting edge out wide. I know Trimble was very good in this regard against Wales but he'll need to keep this level of performance up for the rest of the championship

I think you're right, but personally I would've been looking to have Fitzy in the squad for that very reason, not Zebo.

Just goes to show how strict Joe is being that a proven winger like Fitzy can't make the squad because of quality game time.

Brewster

on the river wrote: »

as you said trimble will score from a few metres out. he is not a game changer. zebo can make line breaks and open up the play. i admit that trimble gives good hard work rate but that all he gives

Interesting analysis

sydthebeat

How do people honestly think he can just walk back into the 23 after:

1. having just been added to an already extended 44 man squad for just one week
2. having that short time to pick up on plays, tactics and objectives
3. having failed a fitness indicator (according to a recent post in the build up thread)

Then compare that to D Kearney and Trimble who both:
1. have been there from the start so know intimately the plays and tactics and "little details" that schmidt wants.
2. have had two very good performances, especially Trimble who has made a lot of pundits teams during the first two rounds


the 23 to play England will be the same as the one which faced wales, except either D Ryan or I Henderson will be there as 19 instead of the injured Touhy.

former legend

on the river wrote: »

as you said trimble will score from a few metres out. he is not a game changer. zebo can make line breaks and open up the play. i admit that trimble gives good hard work rate but that all he gives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8qbtSnPUyg

awec

on the river wrote: »

as you said trimble will score from a few metres out. he is not a game changer. zebo can make line breaks and open up the play. i admit that trimble gives good hard work rate but that all he gives

Trimble makes line breaks all the time. He made a very good one against Wales in the first half.

We lost the ball from the phase because he broke the line and the support couldn't keep up.

Trimble was in the BBC team of the week for BOTH the first two fixtures.

Kearney has also played very well too.

on the river

.ak wrote: »

Class is permanent, form is temporary (to keep rrpc happy in cliché land).

I have no doubt Zebo is one of the most naturally gifted rugby players in this country.

Is he potentially better than any of the wingers in the current squad? Absolutely.

Should he be included in the squad because of that? Absolutely not.

REALLY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=046s-F6OiFQ

Buer

rrpc wrote: »

One swallow does not a summer make*.

Must. Resist.

.ak

on the river wrote: »

REALLY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=046s-F6OiFQ

Yes... Now you're just repeating yourself.

on the river

awec wrote: »

Trimble makes line breaks all the time. He made a very good one against Wales in the first half.

We lost the ball from the phase because he broke the line and the support couldn't keep up.

YA ONE LINE BREAK IN EVERY 50 MATCHES NOT CONSITENT

Podge_irl

On the list of attributes I want from a winger, being able to heel flick the ball into your hands is roughly around 987th.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

.ak wrote: »

I think you're right, but personally I would've been looking to have Fitzy in the squad for that very reason, not Zebo.

Just goes to show how strict Joe is being that a proven winger like Fitzy can't make the squad because of quality game time.

Is he not still injured though?

I'd have Fitz over Zebo

.ak

Podge_irl wrote: »

On the list of attributes I want from a winger, being able to heel flick the ball into your hands is roughly around 987th.

What's 986th?

awec

.ak wrote: »

What's 986th?

Having a large beard.

.ak

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Is he not still injured though?

I'd have Fitz over Zebo

Hard to tell with the insanely vague updates from Leinster. But he was training all week last week and was training in UCD yesterday. He's running at full pelt, which is the main thing you can't do with a hip flexor strain, so I'm not sure really. I reckon if he's fit enough to train for Leinster he's fit enough to train for Ireland. I think the writing was on the wall once he didn't get selected for Dragons.