How come other census are not available ?

OU812

I know we have 1901 & 1911 & that's great, but surely there should be at least one more in each direction available by now.

Not to mention the much more recent ones which would almost certainly have been scanned & OCR'd almost immediately.

28064212

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/records/census/index2.htm#Census

Full government censuses of the whole island were taken in 1821, 1831, 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911. The first four-1821, 1831, 1841 and 1851-were largely destroyed in the fire at the Public Record Office in 1922; surviving fragments are detailed in the county source-lists. Those for 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 were completely destroyed prior to 1922, by order of the government. This means that the earliest surviving comprehensive returns are for 1901 and 1911. Because of this, the normal rule that census returns should not be available to the public for a hundred years was suspended in the Republic in the 1960s, and microfilm copies of both 1901 and 1911 can be consulted in The National Archives of Ireland and online at its census website, www.census.nationalarchives.ie. Microfilm copies are also available via the lds Family History Library in Salt Lake City.

2021 will be the next time census results are released

CassieManson

28064212 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/records/census/index2.htm#Census

2021 will be the next time census results are released

Actually I think it will be 2026, as I dont think we had a census during 1921, due to the war of independance.

OU812

2021/26 ???

That's a crazy amount of time. How come other countries can update more regularly?

familyseeker

There's a 100 yr rule - the census is only released when it is likely all participants are dead. It was originally to do with privacy I think. The US has a 75 year rule. Not sure about other countries. I THINK the 100 yr rule suspension only applied to 1901/1911

pinkypinky

Actually, you're all wrong.

It'll be 1st Jan 2027.

And there was no census in 1921. Censuses from the Free State (1926 onwards) are governed by different legislation and the CSO says they cannot do anything without changes. See this recent thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057128582

pinkypinky

Oh and it's a 70 year seal in the USA. 1940 has been released.

OU812

70 years is more than reasonable

pinkypinky

I agree but good luck convincing civil servants to do something they don't want to! The only way forward is lobbying the Dept of the Taoiseach.

Sign the petition too.
http://www.cigo.ie/campaigns_1926.html

OU812

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I'd also like to see the one before 1901 if possible (I'm stuck). Damn, imagine if we had up to the mid 1940's... That'd include both my parents

pinkypinky

Seriously, there is no census before 1901. They were destroyed by accident, see the second post above.

Ponster

familyseeker wrote: »

There's a 100 yr rule - the census is only released when it is likely all participants are dead. It was originally to do with privacy I think.

I imagine that we also inherited this rule from the British where it's also 100 years.

How come other countries can update more regularly?

The US has the shortest time AFAIK. UK is 100 and Canada is 92 years. Most countries in europe are at 100 years.

OU812

The government really should run a genealogy project to try to replace the lost records.

If everyone who was able to find information on ancestors could submit it & these could be cross referenced in a database, it would build up a picture very quickly.

pinkypinky

OU812 wrote: »

The government really should run a genealogy project to try to replace the lost records.

If everyone who was able to find information on ancestors could submit it & these could be cross referenced in a database, it would build up a picture very quickly.

The government can barely keep the hospitals open and social welfare running. They had an early release of 1926 in the program for government but have now conveniently forgotten it. The NAI and NLI are functioning on miniscule budgets.

People researching their ancestry are a really tiny portion of the population. So many people's eyes glaze over when I tell them what I do.

Also, the state tried to replace data in the 1920s by asking public to send in copies of wills, etc, and set up the Manuscripts Commission to go some way towards the loss.

The fact is, that without a time machine, we cannot replace what was lost with substitute records.

smcgiff

pinkypinky wrote: »

The fact is, that without a time machine, we cannot replace what was lost with substitute records.

Did I read somewhere or dream it that the UK have copies of our lost records. Or is that a myth?

Church records of births and deaths exist as well, but obviously not centralised.

L1011

smcgiff wrote: »

Did I read somewhere or dream it that the UK have copies of our lost records. Or is that a myth?

They don't.

Ponster

smcgiff wrote: »

Did I read somewhere or dream it that the UK have copies of our lost records.

I believe that before some records were pulped it was believed that there was in fact a copy in London though this too may be a myth.

pinkypinky

I think that story probably arose due to this...rolls up sleeves.

In the UK, census returns were copied into enumerator books and the originals were destroyed. So when you look at their census online, you see multiple families on the same page. The same order to pulp originals was given to Ireland and enacted by nameless Dublin Castle civil servants, who in a classic case of left and right hands not talking, did not realise there wasn't a second copy of our returns. It was not malicious.

pjproby

Apparently the first Irish person who will live to be 150 has already been born. On that basis the wait will get longer and longer.

pinkypinky

pjproby wrote: »

Apparently the first Irish person who will live to be 150 has already been born. On that basis the wait will get longer and longer.

I love media commentary like this...do they have a time machine?!* If they said 120, I think that would be more realistic.

Longevity might have the opposite effect though. So much personal information is now online, how could a census from, say, 70 years ago be any worse than your drunken college exploits in video format?


*If yes, please stop the Four Courts fire.

L1011

pinkypinky wrote: »

*If yes, please stop the Four Courts fire.

And give the records office some fresh paper rather than letting them think recycling decades old stuff was a good idea...

Sundew

familyseeker wrote: »

There's a 100 yr rule - the census is only released when it is likely all participants are dead. It was originally to do with privacy I think. The US has a 75 year rule. Not sure about other countries. I THINK the 100 yr rule suspension only applied to 1901/1911

It's a shame really as the rule didnt apply to the 1901 and 1911 census returns which have been available for years. I showed an elderly relative (now deceased) his own census return from 1911 in the early 90's! Obviouslyy his parents had filled it in and he was a teeny weeny fellow, he was fascinated!!!!!!

L1011

1901/1911 censuses were deemed to not be covered as they predated our Statistics Act as well as the UK 100 year closure.

Sundew

Oh I thought there was a special exception for the 1901 and 1911 as most of the other previous census were destroyed!!!!!

I wasnt aware there was no census taken in 1921 which is interesting!

L1011

Sundew wrote: »

Oh I thought there was a special exception for the 1901 and 1911 as most of the other previous census were destroyed!!!!!

Civil war - would have been fairly difficult and inaccurate as a result. North didn't get one either.

There's another massive record gap that can affect Irish researchers. GB is missing most of their 1931 census from memory; North didn't even have one and the English records got destroyed. They then didn't have one in 1941 either. There's some pressure to release the National ID Card registrations from 1939 in lieu as otherwise its a fairly lenghty gap - 1921 to 1951 - for much of the UK and 1926-1951 for NI.