England vs Ireland buildup*read warning post 1*

thomond2006

3rd leg of the 2014 Grand Slam.

Time to get psyched!

awec wrote: »

The Zebo thread is closed - do not start the Zebo discussion again in here. He's not in this squad, time to move on.

Concentrate on the 33 players who are from here on in please, otherwise you will be infracted or banned.

And just to re-iterate what was said in the last thread - anyone engaging in provincial muppetry will get the boot.

Podge_irl

Woop woop. All aboard the joe train.

Someone else can do the detailed analysis.

ScissorPaperRock

It's weird. Despite all the buildup and the history and the fact that Wales were champions and we utterly dismantled them - last week was kind of a let down.

Going to Twickenham should be the defining game of this tournament. I cannot f****** wait.

And while it's horrible for any player to suffer an injury, it's good news for Ireland that Cole is out. They don't really have a match-fit experienced tighthead available after him. It could make a huge difference to the scrum.

.ak

Podge_irl wrote: »

Woop woop. All aboard the joe train.

Someone else can do the detailed analysis.

I think that covers everything actually.

eyeball kid

Less than a week to go, I suppose it is time to get excited. Can't see Joe making any major change to the starting 15. Can't wait for this game, should be great.

former legend

Sounds from comments by Lancaster like Wilson will start in the absence of Cole with Thomas to bench. Wilson is reasonably experienced but not in the same league as Cole so this is a boost for Ireland.

Other than that, you would expect very few changes. Either McCarthy or Henderson to bench in place of Toner (I'd say McCarthy is favourite), maybe Reddan for Boss and other than that no changes.

I think if we can play with a similar sort of accuracy as we did against Wales then we're in with a very good chance.

ScissorPaperRock

former legend wrote: »

Sounds from comments by Lancaster like Wilson will start in the absence of Cole with Thomas to bench. Wilson is reasonably experienced but not in the same league as Cole so this is a boost for Ireland.

Apparently he's really lacking match fitness too, after coming back from an ankle injury.

sydthebeat

Joe's first away game, This Is the Big one. .

former legend

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

Apparently he's really lacking match fitness too, after coming back from an ankle injury.

Definitely but I would imagine they'll start him and hope to get 50 minutes out of him rather than throwing a novice in for his first start.

Kayless

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

Apparently he's really lacking match fitness too, after coming back from an ankle injury.

This guys going to be up against Healy! Talking about thrown him in at the deep end.

Losing Cole is just too big to be glossed over, it would be the equivalent of Ireland losing Sexton at this stage, I say that because Cole plays a huge role for England in the scrums and at ruck time, an area I had already expected Ireland to do well.

Added to that the fact that we already had a stronger bench (with Cole playing) we now have a much stronger bench, I'm not joking after the 60 min mark when Youngs and their other inexperienced TH comes on our replacement front row are going to eat them alive, maybe karma for the man shaming they give us in 2012, ironically in the scrum

matthew8

Ireland dominance in the scrum? I'll believe it when I see it. Healy and Ross haven't really bullied other scrums that much for Ireland. Jack McGrath could do very well when he comes on though.

Podge_irl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIyQTGbSfEc

Not that long ago...

I agree that they're not normally the most destructive scrummagers but even if they just tire out the England pack we have a much, much superior bench front row.

danthefan

Ireland have pretty much never had much of a destructive scrum against the top international sides on a consistent basis. This was pretty sweet though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIyQTGbSfEc

petebricquette

matthew8 wrote: »

Ireland dominance in the scrum? I'll believe it when I see it. Healy and Ross haven't really bullied other scrums that much for Ireland. Jack McGrath could do very well when he comes on though.

Yeah, I don't think it will be a case of us man-shaming the English front row but we'll at least have parity which was not guaranteed before.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Podge_irl wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIyQTGbSfEc

Not that long ago...

I agree that they're not normally the most destructive scrummagers but even if they just tire out the England pack we have a much, much superior bench front row.

They've dominated scrums in big games in the past

Australia 2011
Italy 2011
England 2011
Wales 2012

Buer

Podge_irl wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIyQTGbSfEc

Not that long ago...

I agree that they're not normally the most destructive scrummagers but even if they just tire out the England pack we have a much, much superior bench front row.

What's forgotten is that at the next scrum just inside their half on the far touch line, they drove us back winning the penalty. The scrums were generally quite even in that game with us getting a slight upper hand overall.

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

What's forgotten is that at the next scrum just inside their half on the far touch line, they drove us back winning the penalty. The scrums were generally quite even in that game with us getting a slight upper hand overall.

You're no fun.

The Pheasant2

Just on a side note anyone else think that was some lovely play from Earls there? Really sorry to be missing him

Kayless

Podge_irl wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIyQTGbSfEc

Not that long ago...

I agree that they're not normally the most destructive scrummagers but even if they just tire out the England pack we have a much, much superior bench front row.

The thing about this game is that it's all down to who has the better pack.

Ireland will be looking for driving mauls and dominance in the ruck and at best a solid scrum (so as to not concede 3 pointers) but without Cole England could well come up second best in both the ruck and at scrum time and Sexton will just keep chipping away like he did against Wales until Ireland have a decent enough point deficit.

The driving maul has to be a concern for England as well considering Ireland dominance there since the start of the competition, I'm not sure how Coles absence will affect this but going forward I can't see either of England's replacement TH's adding as much as Cole in this area so again I would say advantage Ireland.

Taco Corp

Podge_irl wrote: »

Woop woop. All aboard the joe train.

Someone else can do the detailed analysis.

Buer

Podge_irl wrote: »

You're no fun.

I'm the Al Gore of rugby chat.

durkadurka

Buer wrote: »

I'm the Al Gore of rugby chat.

I'd say the chicks are throwing themselves at ye

CatFromHue

Buer wrote: »

What's forgotten is that at the next scrum just inside their half on the far touch line, they drove us back winning the penalty. The scrums were generally quite even in that game with us getting a slight upper hand overall.

Is it safe to mention about the scrum when Court came on?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

apparently Wilson did not have a good time of it at the scrum this weekend

Buer

durkadurka wrote: »

I'd say the chicks are throwing themselves at ye

It's a burden, frankly.

awec

Will there be an extended squad announcement for this one made tomorrow? Or is it a case we'll not hear anything until the team is announced later in the week?

Morf

Buer wrote: »

I'm the Al Gore of rugby chat.

I'm nominating you for a Nobel Prize for stating the generally obvious about rugby.

You're a shoe-in!

Morf

I'd rather have beaten England with Cole (whichever way the result might go).

I don't want Ireland to be that team/fans hoping key players are injured.

Grimebox

When is the squad annoucned?

Sanity_Saviour

England will roll over our scrum, Marty Moore will be steamrollered when faced with real experienced scrummagers. Irish fans are desperate when it comes to any inkling of success, we will not win this. Johnny Sexton will see what an intelligent 10 looks like.

awec

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

England will roll over our scrum, Marty Moore will be steamrollered when faced with real experienced scrummagers. Irish fans are desperate when it comes to any inkling of success, we will not win this. Johnny Sexton will see what an intelligent 10 looks like.

Yea...... no.

Nothing to see here folks.

The Pheasant2

Morf wrote: »

I'd rather have beaten England with Cole (whichever way the result might go).

I don't want Ireland to be that team/fans hoping key players are injured.

Yeah you always want to be able to say you beat their best and leave no room for second guessing who's top dog.

That said; we are without our best player and some of our most dangerous backs in Earls, Fitz and Bowe

Dave_The_Sheep

I don't have a great feeling about this game at all.

I feel Ireland and England are in the same boat at the moment - efficient professional games, winning without ever reaching top gear. It could make for a great game - or it could make for a total drossfest.

I'm wary of the England scrum, and their pack in general will be a challenge unlike what we've had so far.

We have the players and the ability to win the game - but you could say the same about England. I hate saying "it all depends on what team plays on the day" since that's so blindingly obvious, but it does. It could come down to what they have for breakfast, each team is well able to beat the other on their day. I just f*cking hope it's our day.

errlloyd

This is basically the most important sentence I've read in a rugby related publication all week. Today's IT.

Perhaps significantly, [IAIN] Henderson along with Jackson, Jack McGrath and Robbie Henderson were the only additions to the starting XV minus Sexton which came together for Ireland’s two-day camp in Clonmel last week.

That seems like an incredibly telling piece of info. (Also I presume the IT just got Robbie Henshaw's name wrong).

The session in Clonmel was apparently some sort of game plan creation analysis session. Perhaps the starting 15 went because they were the ones being witheld from their provinces and Joe was being careful not to screw over the provincial coaches. Jackson went because tactically it is vital for the 10 to know the tactics. But Jack McGrath, Henderson and Henshaw could mean anything.

I find Henshaw in particular quite interesting, is there a suggestion that he is the 13 replacement or the 15 replacement? The 15 surely doesn't need to know much in the way of gameplan?

Morf

errlloyd wrote: »

But Jack McGrath, Henderson and Henshaw could mean anything.

So McGrath missed a chunk of Leinster prep last week and still played a good deal better than anyone else on Friday?

rrpc

errlloyd wrote: »

The session in Clonmel was apparently some sort of game plan creation analysis session. Perhaps the starting 15 went because they were the ones being witheld from their provinces and Joe was being careful not to screw over the provincial coaches. Jackson went because tactically it is vital for the 10 to know the tactics. But Jack McGrath, Henderson and Henshaw could mean anything.

I find Henshaw in particular quite interesting, is there a suggestion that he is the 13 replacement or the 15 replacement? The 15 surely doesn't need to know much in the way of gameplan?

Well you could be looking at some of the subs bench there. Henshaw instead of McFadden and Henderson instead of McCarthy.

This seems to be a very tight squad selection which makes sense given that there's another two week break before the Italy game.

ScissorPaperRock

Grimebox wrote: »

When is the squad annoucned?

This morning sometime, according to GT

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/good-news-is-sexton-and-ryan-through-unscathed-1.1693879

former legend

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

This morning sometime, according to GT

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/good-news-is-sexton-and-ryan-through-unscathed-1.1693879

Would expect a pretty uneventful announcement, can't see them bothering to expand the squad beyond 25 or 26 players.

So in addition to the 22 guys from the Wales game, possible call-ups for either Henderson or McCarthy (maybe both), Reddan, Madigan and maybe one extra cover for the outside backs (Henshaw maybe).

Molester Stallone

Can't see Zebo getting a call for the squad today, and I think it's a big blow, but hows-ever, onwards & upwards. It'd going to be a long week!

rrpc

Molester Stallone wrote: »

Can't see Zebo getting a call for the squad today, and I think it's a big blow, but hows-ever, onwards & upwards. It'd going to be a long week!

A very long week, but hopefully leading up to a great weekend.

Alpha Dog 1

Obviously something personal against Zebo at this stage as he merits a place in the squad at least.

Feel sorry for Zebo tbh, this could stifle his career.

OldRio

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Obviously something personal against Zebo at this stage as he merits a place in the squad at least.

Feel sorry for Zebo tbh, this could stifle his career.

FFS. It begins. Going to be a long week.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Disappointing Zebo didn't make it but no point dwelling over it. In Joe I trust

Podge_irl

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Disappointing Zebo didn't make it but no point dwelling over it. In Joe I trust

Has the squad even been announced yet?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Podge_irl wrote: »

Has the squad even been announced yet?

yep, IRFU facebook page

Otacon

Normally I can blow off player selections with the excuse that their inclusion would probably not influence the result. While this is still mostly the case here, in the one scenario I think a winger could make a difference (end of the game, tired legs, a try needed), I think Zebo would be missed then.

Still, I hope we don't need a late try anyway! GWAN Ireland!

pc7

former legend wrote: »

Other than that, you would expect very few changes. Either McCarthy or Henderson to bench in place of Toner (I'd say McCarthy is favourite), maybe Reddan for Boss and other than that no changes.

.

Is Toner injured? Do you mean Tuohy?

Podge_irl

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

yep, IRFU facebook page

Ah, thanks.

I would have had him there but I assume Joe has his reasons.

former legend

pc7 wrote: »

Is Toner injured? Do you mean Tuohy?

Yes, thanks

pc7

former legend wrote: »

Yes, thanks

Phew! Toner has really come on this year and has been super in the lineouts would hate to see him out.

former legend

Forwards (18)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Mike McCarthy (Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)

Backs (15)
Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

A 33-man squad that will be cut down to 23 on Thursday. You'd have to wonder why, but it's essentially the same squad that was announced before the Scotland game, minus Tuohy and Fitzgerald, plus Ryan