just had €1500 stolen from my account

fisher8181

Took money out last night after a night out and I must have lost my card after that or left it in the machine.
Only just realised about an hour ago and there has been €1500 worth of tickets brought online, shopping from tesco and centra etc
Dont know how that can even be done without knowing my pin. Even the online purchases have "verified by visa" where you have to enter some digits of your pin number.

Anyone know if there is any chance of recouping
the money? I know you can with a credit card but not sure about debits.

Stavros Murphy

Pin money used to be so innocent.

Contact the bank and report the card as stolen? Ask what can they do? Or just take it as your invitation to go out and steal €1500 from somewhere, to even up the score karmically.

Fr_Dougal

If purchases were made through the 3D secure system you won't be able to recoup.

Also, contact the Gardai immediately, they should be able to track the thieves through the delivery address on the orders.

Banjo String

fisher8181 wrote: »

Took money out last night after a night out and I must have lost my card after that or left it in the machine.
Only just realised about an hour ago and there has been €1500 worth of tickets brought online, shopping from tesco and centra etc
Dont know how that can even be done without knowing my pin. Even the online purchases have "verified by visa" where you have to enter some digits of your pin number.

Anyone know if there is any chance of recouping
the money? I know you can with a credit card but not sure about debits.

Someone has skimmed your card. That's what it looks like to me.

Sorry to hear it dude.

J_E

fisher8181 wrote: »

Took money out last night after a night out and I must have lost my card after that or left it in the machine.
Only just realised about an hour ago and there has been €1500 worth of tickets brought online, shopping from tesco and centra etc
Dont know how that can even be done without knowing my pin.

Skimming machines usually have a fake keypad or hidden camera to get the PIN too. Really sorry to hear this has happened, contact your bank/Visa immediately to get it cancelled.

sawdoubters

have you called the bank yet

Novella

I don't think all websites use Verified by Visa. I buy a lot of stuff online and it's not that often that I'm asked to use it.

Anyway, my debit card was cloned last year and I got all of the money back. It took maybe three or four weeks to be dealt with but AIB were pretty good about it. Did you report the card lost or stolen yet!? If not, do it!

sopretty

Obviously - your first port of call is to cancel your card which I presume you have already done!
I would also report this to the gardai (they might - with their amazing surveillance capabilities haha - be able to track the locations of the Centra etc. purchases (i.e. check cctv footage of the time of the transactions?).
That's some hard luck though. Hope you get it all back.

fisher8181

Dont think it was skimmed cos I actually did lose it. If skimmed dont you take the card back and they clone the card?

I have reported it to bank. On way to police station.

sopretty

fisher8181 wrote: »

Dont think it was skimmed cos I actually did lose it. If skimmed dont you take the card back and they clone the card?

I have reported it to bank. On way to police station.

Best of luck. Hope the miserable ******* get caught. Such a horrible thing to do to someone.

Tiddlypeeps

I had my card skimmed before and AIB refunded me every penny that was taken. They even gave me a temporary overdraft while the investigation was in progress so that I wouldn't be out of pocket.

Talk to the bank about it asap, most importantly so that you can cancel the card so no further damage can be done but also to try and see how they can refund you what was taken.

Since the card itself was stolen/lost I'm not sure if they will refund you the money, but it's worth talking to them as they may be able to cancel any transactions that have not fully processed yet.

Canis Lupus

Chip n pin not always required. They'll usually swipe and sign.

The bank will know about verified by visa transactions. Just because a website has it doesn't mean the buyer will be challenged.

However, don't say you left it in the ATM otherwise the bank will hit you with negligence and not refund the money.

slimjimmc

fisher8181 wrote: »

Took money out last night after a night out and I must have lost my card after that or left it in the machine.
Only just realised about an hour ago and there has been €1500 worth of tickets brought online, shopping from tesco and centra etc
Dont know how that can even be done without knowing my pin. Even the online purchases have "verified by visa" where you have to enter some digits of your pin number.

Anyone know if there is any chance of recouping
the money? I know you can with a credit card but not sure about debits.

If you were so drunk that you forgot to take your card then maybe you were too drunk to notice if an opportunist was looking over your shoulder as you typed in the PIN?

Fr_Dougal

fisher8181 wrote: »

Dont think it was skimmed cos I actually did lose it. If skimmed dont you take the card back and they clone the card?

I have reported it to bank. On way to police station.

If there are 'verified by visa' purchases on your card that means purchases have been made via the 3D secure system...which means someone entered in your password and that's separate to your PIN.

If you or anyone in your household made those purchases the bank will know, and so will the Gardai if they contact them. This is starting to smell a bit fishy tbh.

Phoebas

slimjimmc wrote: »

If you were so drunk that you forgot to take your card then maybe you were too drunk to notice if an opportunist was looking over your shoulder as you typed in the PIN?

He didn't say he was drunk :mad:

Gael23

Contact the bank immediately. If the phone line isnt open tonight then do first thing in the morning

lukesmom

Sorry the rotten bast@rds they'll have no luck for it

Freddy Smelly

paypal for online purchases that way your covered

if your card was skimmed your bank will refund you once you report the machine as they will check it's logs to see if it was skimmed. yes they can check camera logs and withdrawl logs

if they see you taking out money at lets say 5pm and then see the skimmer taking money out at lets say 10pm and ye look different they will refund you

Canis Lupus

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

paypal for online purchases that way your covered

if your card was skimmed your bank will refund you once you report the machine as they will check it's logs to see if it was skimmed. yes they can check camera logs and withdrawl logs

if they see you taking out money at lets say 5pm and then see the skimmer taking money out at lets say 10pm and ye look different they will refund you

OP has said he lost his card.

Freddy Smelly

Canis Lupus wrote: »

OP has said he lost his card.

how did they get op's pin if op lost it?????

the only way to get a card pin is while it is in use. finding a card on the ground is only good for chopping cocaine nothing more

even if he left his card in the machine the machine will spit it out after being idle for 3 mins or ask you to re-enter your pin again

no it was skimmed or found away from the atm how else where they able to buy tickets online????

in either case the ip address of the pc used to buy the tickets will be traced...prooving the ops case his card was used illegally and therefore he will get refunded

fisher8181

Been back onto bank. It's actually more money than I thought. They somehow took out €600 cash (thought there was a limit of €300?) from the ATM and €1500 in purchases.
They signed for the purchases in different shops and brought €800 worth of tickets online. It looks like they didn't know my pin if they were swiping and signing but somehow withdrew cash from ATM.

I reported the card lost rather than stolen. I wonder if that will affect whether I get my money back. They might see "lost" as being negligent.

foxy06

How do u know so soon what the purchases were? It doesn't show up on my online banking for a couple of days. only shows the amount spent and what's left

sopretty

fisher8181 wrote: »

Been back onto bank. It's actually more money than I thought. They somehow took out €600 cash (thought there was a limit of €300?) from the ATM and €1500 in purchases.
They signed for the purchases in different shops and brought €800 worth of tickets online. It looks like they didn't know my pin if they were swiping and signing but somehow withdrew cash from ATM.

I reported the card lost rather than stolen. I wonder if that will affect whether I get my money back. They might see "lost" as being negligent.

I'd re-report it as stolen. In fairness, it would be easy enough to mislay a card and figure it might have been mislaid. Reporting it to gardai as stolen should have significance though. Did you do that yet?

fisher8181

foxy06 wrote: »

How do u know so soon what the purchases were? It doesn't show up on my online banking for a couple of days. only shows the amount spent and what's left

The guy I reported it to at the bank had the details

Banjo String

fisher8181 wrote: »

Been back onto bank. It's actually more money than I thought. They somehow took out €600 cash (thought there was a limit of €300?) from the ATM and €1500 in purchases.
They signed for the purchases in different shops and brought €800 worth of tickets online. It looks like they didn't know my pin if they were swiping and signing but somehow withdrew cash from ATM.

I reported the card lost rather than stolen. I wonder if that will affect whether I get my money back. They might see "lost" as being negligent.

This doesn't make sense to me. If they didn't have your pin, it'd be impossible to withdraw anything from an atm.

fisher8181

sopretty wrote: »

I'd re-report it as stolen. In fairness, it would be easy enough to mislay a card and figure it might have been mislaid. Reporting it to gardai as stolen should have significance though. Did you do that yet?

Just told him what actually happened. Didn't say lost or stolen.

fisher8181

Banjo String wrote: »

This doesn't make sense to me. If they didn't have your pin, it'd be impossible to withdraw anything from an atm.

Don't understand that either. Should get more info tomorrow.

fisher8181

fisher8181 wrote: »

They signed for the purchases in different shops and brought €800 worth of tickets online. It looks like they didn't know my pin if they were swiping and signing but somehow withdrew cash from ATM.

I used to work in retail and was always told never to accept a chip and PIN card without the PIN, because in the event of fraud the retailer is responsible as they're not following the correct procedures.

Freddy Smelly

fisher8181 wrote: »

Been back onto bank. It's actually more money than I thought. They somehow took out €600 cash (thought there was a limit of €300?) from the ATM and €1500 in purchases.
They signed for the purchases in different shops and brought €800 worth of tickets online. It looks like they didn't know my pin if they were swiping and signing but somehow withdrew cash from ATM.

I reported the card lost rather than stolen. I wonder if that will affect whether I get my money back. They might see "lost" as being negligent.

if aib 600 is max per day

your card was skimmed otherwise they could not withdraw cash from the atm cos you need a pin to do that. in which case the bank are responsible and need to refund you.


its the bank's job to make their atms impossible to fit skimmers in not yours. fight your case

Canis Lupus

fisher8181 wrote: »

Been back onto bank. It's actually more money than I thought. They somehow took out €600 cash (thought there was a limit of €300?) from the ATM and €1500 in purchases.
They signed for the purchases in different shops and brought €800 worth of tickets online. It looks like they didn't know my pin if they were swiping and signing but somehow withdrew cash from ATM.

I reported the card lost rather than stolen. I wonder if that will affect whether I get my money back. They might see "lost" as being negligent.

You said you were out last night but haven't said if you were on the piss or not?

Do you remember taking the card with you when at the ATM and do you remember if anyone was hanging around/watching?

If we assume the ATM detected the chip (some do some do, some don't) the bank is unlikely to refund the money. They'll basically claim negligence one way or the other. It's still unlikely anyway given that counterfeit card transactions are pretty easy to detect.

As for the card present transactions... If we assume the bank is going to be nice to you they'll do a chargeback/voucher request which is essentially a signature check from the point of purchase. This will get you your money back as sigs won't match.

Online transactions, again it's up to the bank but if the transactions WERE verified by visa you're not getting the money back because the bank can't chargeback the merchant (ie the bank would have to pay you from their own pocket and that's not going to happen). If they weren't verified by visa the bank might help. You see the bank has to pay visa per chargeback so it depends in this case. Ultimately they might just say you lost your card tough **** or they might be nice. Fingers crossed for you either way.

Banjo String

fisher8181 wrote: »

Don't understand that either. Should get more info tomorrow.

Best of luck.

Canis Lupus

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

if aib 600 is max per day

your card was skimmed otherwise they could not withdraw cash from the atm cos you need a pin to do that. in which case the bank are responsible and need to refund you.


its the bank's job to make their atms impossible to fit skimmers in not yours. fight your case

It's not impossible but as a general rule of thumb a skimmed card is rarely put into operation within hours. Normally it's a few days and often months and more often the counterfeit card actually pops up in foreign countries. US and Asia being popular spots.

Freddy Smelly

Canis Lupus wrote: »

.

Online transactions, again it's up to the bank but if the transactions WERE verified by visa you're not getting the money back because the bank can't chargeback the merchant (ie the bank would have to pay you from their own pocket and that's not going to happen). If they weren't verified by visa the bank might help. You see the bank has to pay visa per chargeback so it depends in this case. Ultimately they might just say you lost your card tough **** or they might be nice. Fingers crossed for you either way.

they will if the ip address of the pc used to make the transactions is not in the ops's general location at the time of purchase. verified by visa means nothing if the card is used fraudulently visa have to reimburse the bank if proven it was fraudulent

banks have very good systems to trace online purchases back to the ip address of the computer used... they can easily get the info off an isp under the fraudulent online transactions act

hfallada

If you leave your card in the ATM machine and take the cash. The machine is programmed to take back the card

Youzername

Karsini wrote: »

I used to work in retail and was always told never to accept a chip and PIN card without the PIN, because in the event of fraud the retailer is responsible as they're not following the correct procedures.

Yeah true, were the shops in Ireland though?

This happened to me about 2 years ago, but the cloned card was being used in the US. Apparently signing for everything is more common over there...

Luckily, the bank actually noticed before me because I had used my card here, and then it was used a couple of minutes later in america :pac:

They apparently bought a sh!t load of groceries, electronics and tried to sign my card up to a movie rental website.....:(

Anyway, the bank fraud department called me to verify it was fraudulent activity, froze my card and got all my money back thank god.

I remember initially thinking the call from my bank was a scam, because you are normally warned that they wont ever call you and ask for your details

Freddy Smelly

hfallada wrote: »

If you leave your card in the ATM machine and take the cash. The machine is programmed to take back the card

not always but it will request you re-enter your pin once the initial transaction was completed if you want to do another transaction

a tell tale sign that your card was skimmed is this

after a withdrawl check your mobile phone app... if u see a 1 or 2 euro charge after your last withdrawl call your bank and ask what it is...

most skimmers will test the card with a 1 or 2 euro purchase first. if it works they sell the cloned card on.

rawn

OP could a family member, or a person with you that night have stolen it, that may know your PIN or take a good guess at it? I don't mean to offend, but it is possible.

Canis Lupus

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

they will if the ip address of the pc used to make the transactions is not in the ops's general location at the time of purchase. verified by visa means nothing if the card is used fraudulently visa have to reimburse the bank if proven it was fraudulent

banks have very good systems to trace online purchases back to the ip address of the computer used... they can easily get the info off an isp under the fraudulent online transactions act

My job is anti card fraud. I think you're overestimating how much effort a bank will go to. If he lost his card and it was then used by an Irish IP address with correct password for VBV the bank will tell him to go spin.

rawn

hfallada wrote: »

If you leave your card in the ATM machine and take the cash. The machine is programmed to take back the card

Don't ATM's usually return the card before spitting out the cash?

CruelCoin

slimjimmc wrote: »

If you were so drunk that you forgot to take your card then maybe you were too drunk to notice if an opportunist was looking over your shoulder as you typed in the PIN?

Or that he mumbled the number while keying it in.

fisher8181

Canis Lupus wrote: »

My job is anti card fraud. I think you're overestimating how much effort a bank will go to. If he lost his card and it was then used by an Irish IP address with correct password for VBV the bank will tell him to go spin.

Don't think it could have went through VBV.
Doesn't that look for digits of your pin and your password?
What ever chance that they might have seen me enter my pin there is no way they would know my password.

Freddy Smelly

Canis Lupus wrote: »

My job is anti card fraud. I think you're overestimating how much effort a bank will go to. If he lost his card and it was then used by an Irish IP address with correct password for VBV the bank will tell him to go spin.

not if a withdrawl was made after the initial withdrawl as you know well to make 2 withdrawls requires the pin be entered twice... to make three withdrawls requires the pin be entered 3 times... if ye fail to realise that your atm was skimmed its not the ops fault make better atms ones that require better ways to prevent skimmers being fitted to the slots. laser measuring sensors that detect if a card slot is reduced in size from the normal operating size is one such way... fit a skimmer then the atm shuts down automatically cos the card slot is now measuring less than the normal size

rawn wrote: »

Don't ATM's usually return the card before spitting out the cash?

exactly... hence why i think his card was skimmed... you cannot make 2 transactions in one go with being required to re-enter your pin

Canis Lupus

fisher8181 wrote: »

Don't think it could have went through VBV.
Doesn't that look for digits of your pin and your password?
What ever chance that they might have seen me enter my pin there is no way they would know my password.

In that case if the transactions weren't vbv approved you should be able to claim them back.

I say should because I don't work in claims, I don't know what the position is regarding online transactions stemming from a lost card. I do know for sure though that being negligent with your card at an ATM is grounds for reimbursement refusal in situations where the thieves make further ATM withdrawals. (counterfeit cards are a different matter but I don't think that's the case here and a lot of ATMs in Ireland read the chip and the bank can see that so they'll know it was the original card used).

fisher8181

Canis Lupus wrote: »

In that case if the transactions weren't vbv approved you should be able to claim them back.

I say should because I don't work in claims, I don't know what the position is regarding online transactions stemming from a lost card. I do know for sure though that being negligent with your card at an ATM is grounds for reimbursement refusal in situations where the thieves make further ATM withdrawals. (counterfeit cards are a different matter but I don't think that's the case here and a lot of ATMs in Ireland read the chip and the bank can see that so they'll know it was the original card used).

How do they know if I was negligent with my card?
Do they look back on CCTV or just ask me what happened?

Canis Lupus

fisher8181 wrote: »

How do they know if I was negligent with my card?
Do they look back on CCTV or just ask me what happened?

Because they used your card and pin to withdraw money. However it's odd if they didn't use the pin to make card present transactions unless they were stupid and forgot it on the way to the shops.

What exactly happened. Were you drunk? Do you clearly remember making an ATM transaction? Do you remember anyone being around you at the time? What happened immediately after the transaction?

MonaPizza

Phoebas wrote: »

He didn't say he was drunk :mad:

Course he was drunk.

MonaPizza

Canis Lupus wrote: »

It's not impossible but as a general rule of thumb a skimmed card is rarely put into operation within hours. Normally it's a few days and often months and more often the counterfeit card actually pops up in foreign countries. US and Asia being popular spots.

This is true. My card was skimmed once and the bank immediately called me. I had made a withdrawal from a machine and about 12 hours later "my" card was used in South America. The bank determined that it would have been impossible for me to have been in both places. They rang me, informed me, blocked my card, locked the account, refunded the stolen spons and told me to pick up a new card at the branch asap. I was pretty impressed with their diligence.

fisher8181

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Because they used your card and pin to withdraw money. However it's odd if they didn't use the pin to make card present transactions unless they were stupid and forgot it on the way to the shops.

What exactly happened. Were you drunk? Do you clearly remember making an ATM transaction? Do you remember anyone being around you at the time? What happened immediately after the transaction?

Had a few drinks but I wasn't very drunk. I clearly remember making the transaction but wouldn't have noticed anyone hanging around.
I just walked home afterwards and tickets were purchased online about an hour afterwards.

Do you know if the bank looks at CCTV or how they determine negligence? Is the fact that they saw my pin enough to say I was negligent?

Canis Lupus

fisher8181 wrote: »

Had a few drinks but I wasn't very drunk. I clearly remember making the transaction but wouldn't have noticed anyone hanging around.
I just walked home afterwards and tickets were purchased online about an hour afterwards.

Do you know if the bank looks at CCTV or how they determine negligence? Is the fact that they saw my pin enough to say I was negligent?

The ATM will have detected the chip (which is not copyable by fraudsters) so the bank will know your card + pin withdrew money. Apart from coercion (ie someone with a knife making you withdraw money etc) the bank has grounds the refuse you a refund on the ATM withdrawals because no matter what way you look at it the thieves shouldn't have your card and pin unless you were in some way negligent.

As for the other stuff like I said before it's claimable but I don't know where the bank will stand in regards to transactions made after a card is lost. I do have a feeling you should might be okay and they'll go with the chargebacks.

Look, I think it's just best to wait for the morning and talk to the bank. I don't want to be stressing you out needlessly as they might just fire you out a form and reimburse you.

fisher8181

Canis Lupus wrote: »

The ATM will have detected the chip (which is not copyable by fraudsters) so the bank will know your card + pin withdrew money. Apart from coercion (ie someone with a knife making you withdraw money etc) the bank has grounds the refuse you a refund on the ATM withdrawals because no matter what way you look at it the thieves shouldn't have your card and pin unless you were in some way negligent.

As for the other stuff like I said before it's claimable but I don't know where the bank will stand in regards to transactions made after a card is lost. I do have a feeling you should might be okay and they'll go with the chargebacks.

Look, I think it's just best to wait for the morning and talk to the bank. I don't want to be stressing you out needlessly as they might just fire you out a form and reimburse you.

Thanks for advice

Fr_Dougal

You can file charge backs for 'unauthorised use' for all online transactions, as long as none were 3d you'll get full refunds.