Are ESB Networks doing a good job repairing storm damage?

kneemos

Amprodude wrote: »

Any tree near enough to a line that if it falls would make contact with line or at the very least cut the top off them. Im driving every day and i see alot of trees near power lines that dont need to be there. All of these power cuts cant be prevented but the most of them can.

To cut down that many trees would be environmental vandalism,can only imagine the protests not to mention the astronomical costs. To cut down even one tree would involve road clousure and heavy machinery.Can't see land owners readily agreeing to it either and CPO's would cost even more money.

Amprodude

kneemos wrote: »

To cut down that many trees would be environmental vandalism,can only imagine the protests not to mention the astronomical costs. To cut down even one tree would involve road clousure and heavy machinery.Can't see land owners readily agreeing to it either and CPO's would cost even more money.

Astronomical costs? Thats only an excuse here. The only one at loss here are the customers who are affected without power. Imagine having a freezer full of meat that has to be dumped along with other frozen foods. Is that not an astromical cost? Insurance companies may not agree to cover this without affecting your premium. Most powerlines go through fields so no need for road closures there. Alot of the time if the tops of the trees were cut alot of damage would be avoided. God help Ireland if we did have a huge disaster we would be without power for months im sorry to say.

Femme_Fatale

I think the ESB, Coillte and the rest of the relevant bodies would know best really. I don't think things are as they are for the craic. Nobody wants power outages and people having to do treacherous work to restore the power.

richardw001 wrote: »

Have to agree with the above - the crews on the ground have done brilliant work over the last week - however I would venture to say alot of the damage and loss of power could have been avoided if the trees were kept down (Google any countries policies) and poles replaced when they get old . based on the charges we pay for esb ( very high) there's no reason why this couldn't have been done

Can't really know that for certain though without a breakdown of the figures.

Cienciano

Amprodude wrote: »

God help Ireland if we did have a huge disaster we would be without power for months im sorry to say.

What sort of huge disaster, and why would we be without power for months?

Amprodude

Cienciano wrote: »

What sort of huge disaster, and why would we be without power for months?

If a tornedo arrived how would the esb be prepared? Some people are without power for almost a week now with a storm that lasted at its peak for a hour before easing off. A tornedo would do more damage and i would expect some people would be out for weeks. I wouldnt be comfident that esb would be equipped with the resources they need to tackle any disaster. Some of its crews are doing great work but there are also some members of its crew arsing around im afraid. Harsh but true unfortuntely.

end of the road

Amprodude wrote: »

Astronomical costs? Thats only an excuse here. The only one at loss here are the customers who are affected without power. Imagine having a freezer full of meat that has to be dumped along with other frozen foods. Is that not an astromical cost? Insurance companies may not agree to cover this without affecting your premium. Most powerlines go through fields so no need for road closures there. Alot of the time if the tops of the trees were cut alot of damage would be avoided. God help Ireland if we did have a huge disaster we would be without power for months im sorry to say.

dramatizing much

end of the road

Amprodude wrote: »

If a tornedo arrived how would the esb be prepared? Some people are without power for almost a week now with a storm that lasted at its peak for a hour before easing off. A tornedo would do more damage and i would expect some people would be out for weeks. I wouldnt be comfident that esb would be equipped with the resources they need to tackle any disaster.

don't know where you live but where i live the storms lasted a lot longer then an hour and were a lot bigger then other years

Amprodude wrote: »

there are also some members of its crew arsing around im afraid. Harsh but true

and you know that how? harsh but true? no it can't be those when you haven't a clue i'm afraid

Cienciano

Amprodude wrote: »

If a tornedo arrived how would the esb be prepared? Some people are without power for almost a week now with a storm that lasted at its peak for a hour before easing off. A tornedo would do more damage and i would expect some people would be out for weeks. I wouldnt be comfident that esb would be equipped with the resources they need to tackle any disaster. Some of its crews are doing great work but there are also some members of its crew arsing around im afraid. Harsh but true unfortuntely.

So, your criticism is the esb aren't equipped to deal with a tornado?


Jesus wept

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Cienciano wrote: »

So, your criticism is the esb aren't equipped to deal with a tornado?

Sadly this is the whinge whine mentality of quite a few in this country.
They would actually argue in favour of spending billions of euro making Ireland tornado proof (an impossibility anyway) and then would whinge and whine as to why their electricity standing charge had quadrupled to pay for it!

Citroen2cv

Here is how I think electrical power should be distributed/tranported in this island.
All high kV power is distributed by power lines on Pylons....most cost effective, safe way of distributing power over long distance.
Only when it come to low voltage power, eg. distribution after the substations, that power lines should be buried when bringing power to rural isolated spots, as these are where the existing power lines are most prone to storm damage. It happens every year, some ESB crews are probably up fixing the same lines every winter.

Amprodude

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Sadly this is the whinge whine mentality of quite a few in this country.
They would actually argue in favour of spending billions of euro making Ireland tornado proof (an impossibility anyway) and then would whinge and whine as to why their electricity standing charge had quadrupled to pay for it!

put yoursrlf in my position and i bet you wouldnt be happy but again it doesnt affect you because you have power. Easy to talk when you can enjoy the comforts.

Cienciano

Amprodude wrote: »

put yoursrlf in my position and i bet you wouldnt be happy but again it doesnt affect you because you have power. Easy to talk when you can enjoy the comforts.

Seriously, a tornado. They're not equiped for a volcano either. There's a reason for that. And you're right, it's easy to say that in my position :pac:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

richardw001 wrote: »

Have to agree with the above - the crews on the ground have done brilliant work over the last week - however I would venture to say alot of the damage and loss of power could have been avoided if the trees were kept down (Google any countries policies) and poles replaced when they get old . based on the charges we pay for esb ( very high) there's no reason why this couldn't have been done - they should be looking at every case where there was an outage and be asking serious questions - god help us if we ever get a real disaster in this country

Just for accuracy:, ESB poles are checked every 3 years or so for rot and damage. Poles did not come down because of age. New polos were brought down as easily as old. Remember the lines did not blow down or fall down but were brought down.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Amprodude wrote: »

If a tornedo arrived how would the esb be prepared? Some people are without power for almost a week now with a storm that lasted at its peak for a hour before easing off. A tornedo would do more damage and i would expect some people would be out for weeks. I wouldnt be comfident that esb would be equipped with the resources they need to tackle any disaster. Some of its crews are doing great work but there are also some members of its crew arsing around im afraid. Harsh but true unfortuntely.

Harsh? Certainly. True? I think not.

A tornado could actually do less damage than the sustained high winds we recently experienced. I have seen tornados in the US and the damage they can do. It is horrific of course but it is not sustained over a long period.
Me thinks you exaggerate too much and without substance!

And as for having resuorces for a real disaster - I can hear the complaints about overstaffing and being underworked when there is no disaster already.

Amprodude

Elizabeth Gorgeous Skeleton wrote: »

Harsh? Certainly. True? I think not.

A tornado could actually do less damage than the sustained high winds we recently experienced. I have seen tornados in the US and the damage they can do. It is horrific of course but it is not sustained over a long period.
Me thinks you exaggerate too much and without substance!

And as for having resuorces for a real disaster - I can hear the complaints about overstaffing and being underworked when there is no disaster already.

1 week to restore a powerline and still not restored? Sure Im exaggerating that there is nothing been done. Of course. How bad of me.

Irish Steve

Amprodude wrote: »

Come down off your high horse. Its ok for you because you arent without power and can enjoy the benefits of having it back again. For me and im sure is the same for some others are without power since 12.30pm last Wednesday and was told that it could take until Tuesday this week to fix. Its unacceptable in this modern era. We can do without power for 1-2 days but it becomes frustrating then. Main problem is there arent enough of the esb crew around to fix problems too many cutbacks when they badly needed and becsuse i live in the middle of nowhere im going to have to wait. I have rang them numerous times but nothing they can do apparantely. No water, no heat, no cooking no washing and no light you can see why the average person in this situation is pissed off.

Well, if you live in the middle of nowhere, I am surprised that you have made the decisions you have, and are by the sound of it single fuel dependent. 25 years or so ago, the miners went on strike in the UK, and the result was power cuts on most days that left us with power for 4 hours out of 24, and at that time, I made a decision that I would never again be in the position where we were totally dependent on a single source supplier for power, heat light and cooking. Yes, it costs me more, but it means that even if ESB is out for a prolonged period, we have alternative means to provide at least some of the basics that are needed. Heat, light and cooking can all be provided without electricity, OK, it takes some planning and forethought, but in a rural area, in my book, that's part of the planning that has to be part of life. We still have a couple of the old oil lamps, simply because they are an alternative that doesn't require power to make them work, and they are safer than using open candles. Bottled gas is an option for cooking, and some heating, and again, no electricity required.

For different reasons, relating to potential flooding, I have standby power, a diesel generator, so that even if ESB fails, for whatever reason, I can run pumps. I could just be fatalistic, and have nothing, but those are the sorts of decisions that have to be made, and we're in an urban area, most of the power is underground, but it still has to get here through mainly overhead high voltage distribution, and that can and does fail on occasions.

Yes, you've had no power for a number of days. How do you think the people in the parts of the world that get hurricanes feel when their entire way of life is destroyed beyond recognition.
Your house is presumably still standing.
You presumably still have the means to get to your local supermarket for food and other supplies, and the roads to get to those facilities are still basically in place, albeit possibly temporarily blocked by fallen trees.
You probably still have a place of work to go to.
You probably still have running water and waste water disposal.

So, pretty much most of your life is not significantly impacted by one of the most violent and damaging natural events to hit this island in a very long time.

ESB are doing the best they can, with assistance from Northern Ireland and the UK, in a situation that they had no control over, and no way to prepare for. Some of the photos on the web of the damage to major structures like Pylons are indicative of damage that can only be regarded as massive, and even finding out where all the faults are takes time, there are no magic sensors in each house that link back to a central computer to tell them that there's a fault, and if people don't call to let them know, they they can't be expected to send repair crews to an area just in case when they already know about more than a few faults that need attention.

I feel your pain, but I also would respectfully suggest that you need to re evaluate your preparations and contingency plans for dealing with things like power failures, among other things, in order to minimise the inevitable disruption that can and does occur when nature decides not to play fair.

Femme_Fatale

Irish Steve wrote: »

ESB are doing the best they can, with assistance from Northern Ireland and the UK, in a situation that they had no control over, and no way to prepare for. Some of the photos on the web of the damage to major structures like Pylons are indicative of damage that can only be regarded as massive, and even finding out where all the faults are takes time, there are no magic sensors in each house that link back to a central computer to tell them that there's a fault, and if people don't call to let them know, they they can't be expected to send repair crews to an area just in case when they already know about more than a few faults that need attention.

Exactly. To which that poster claimed "there are also some members of its crew arsing around im afraid. Harsh but true"
Not sure what the "true" was about, seeing as they had absolutely no proof whatsoever, other than their power being out still - so therefore that could only mean ESB crews are arsing around.

Cienciano

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Exactly. To which that poster claimed "there are also some members of its crew arsing around im afraid. Harsh but true"
Not sure what the "true" was about, seeing as they had absolutely no proof whatsoever, other than their power being out still - so therefore that could only mean ESB crews are arsing around.

It might look like some crew are "arsing around", but when 4 lads go to do a job all 4 can't be working 100% of the time. So when Amprodude drives past a crew working who are waiting for a line to be switched out, he thinks they're "arsing around".
I doubt ESB have crews hanging around depots that can't be arsed heading out.

Amprodude

Irish Steve wrote: »

Well, if you live in the middle of nowhere, I am surprised that you have made the decisions you have, and are by the sound of it single fuel dependent. 25 years or so ago, the miners went on strike in the UK, and the result was power cuts on most days that left us with power for 4 hours out of 24, and at that time, I made a decision that I would never again be in the position where we were totally dependent on a single source supplier for power, heat light and cooking. Yes, it costs me more, but it means that even if ESB is out for a prolonged period, we have alternative means to provide at least some of the basics that are needed. Heat, light and cooking can all be provided without electricity, OK, it takes some planning and forethought, but in a rural area, in my book, that's part of the planning that has to be part of life. We still have a couple of the old oil lamps, simply because they are an alternative that doesn't require power to make them work, and they are safer than using open candles. Bottled gas is an option for cooking, and some heating, and again, no electricity required.

For different reasons, relating to potential flooding, I have standby power, a diesel generator, so that even if ESB fails, for whatever reason, I can run pumps. I could just be fatalistic, and have nothing, but those are the sorts of decisions that have to be made, and we're in an urban area, most of the power is underground, but it still has to get here through mainly overhead high voltage distribution, and that can and does fail on occasions.

Yes, you've had no power for a number of days. How do you think the people in the parts of the world that get hurricanes feel when their entire way of life is destroyed beyond recognition.
Your house is presumably still standing.
You presumably still have the means to get to your local supermarket for food and other supplies, and the roads to get to those facilities are still basically in place, albeit possibly temporarily blocked by fallen trees.
You probably still have a place of work to go to.
You probably still have running water and waste water disposal.

So, pretty much most of your life is not significantly impacted by one of the most violent and damaging natural events to hit this island in a very long time.

ESB are doing the best they can, with assistance from Northern Ireland and the UK, in a situation that they had no control over, and no way to prepare for. Some of the photos on the web of the damage to major structures like Pylons are indicative of damage that can only be regarded as massive, and even finding out where all the faults are takes time, there are no magic sensors in each house that link back to a central computer to tell them that there's a fault, and if people don't call to let them know, they they can't be expected to send repair crews to an area just in case when they already know about more than a few faults that need attention.

I feel your pain, but I also would respectfully suggest that you need to re evaluate your preparations and contingency plans for dealing with things like power failures, among other things, in order to minimise the inevitable disruption that can and does occur when nature decides not to play fair.

I don't have running water either because I have my own well and the pump is electric so it doesnt work once power goes out. You are right though, i wasnt prepared, one thing I will do is invest in a generator and a few gas rings so at least in the future if this happened again, I would survive and cope a bit better. No power again tonight hopefully I will get connected soon.

Femme_Fatale

It's shyte. Nobody's saying it's easy. Hope you get it reconnected soon too.

Amprodude

Cienciano wrote: »

It might look like some crew are "arsing around", but when 4 lads go to do a job all 4 can't be working 100% of the time. So when Amprodude drives past a crew working who are waiting for a line to be switched out, he thinks they're "arsing around".
I doubt ESB have crews hanging around depots that can't be arsed heading out.

All I'm saying is it shouldn't take this long to restore power. It's not a massive disaster like hurricane Katrina that's hit the country. That's my point. Anyway il take the hit now and prepare better in the future. The ESB provide a great service and I will really appreciate it when it comes back again.

micosoft

Amprodude wrote: »

If a tornedo arrived how would the esb be prepared? Some people are without power for almost a week now with a storm that lasted at its peak for a hour before easing off. A tornedo would do more damage and i would expect some people would be out for weeks. I wouldnt be comfident that esb would be equipped with the resources they need to tackle any disaster. Some of its crews are doing great work but there are also some members of its crew arsing around im afraid. Harsh but true unfortuntely.

Agreed. What have the ESB done to prepare for Godzilla type attacks? After seeing pacific rim I really don't think that the ESB have put enough effort into building some Jaegers. I've also bought some Volcano insurance as I don't think the ESB have prepared for that either :rolleyes:

Amprodude

micosoft wrote: »

Agreed. What have the ESB done to prepare for Godzilla type attacks? After seeing pacific rim I really don't think that the ESB have put enough effort into building some Jaegers. I've also bought some Volcano insurance as I don't think the ESB have prepared for that either :rolleyes:

Or alien invasions for that matter like your post :rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight

micosoft wrote: »

Agreed. What have the ESB done to prepare for Godzilla type attacks? After seeing pacific rim I really don't think that the ESB have put enough effort into building some Jaegers. I've also bought some Volcano insurance as I don't think the ESB have prepared for that either :rolleyes:

Why do you think Eirgrid is trying to set up new the 400KV pylons ???

Because 300KV power lines can't stop Godzilla. Though that still leaves the problem of King Kong.

"As long as Norway has "trolls"," one official... states, "we will have to keep building power lines and waste money on projects that destroy the landscape." Catering for trolls is a costly and questionable political project.

Irish Steve

AH strikes again, a serious thread will eventually be derailed by someone

For what it's worth, I spend some time in the weather forum, which as you may imagine, was pretty busy during Darwin.

There's a picture here from a satellite that shows the centre of the low pressure over Ireland, and what's very noticeable is that there was a small but significant low within the low at about the 7 o clock position in the spiral that probably came ashore somewhere in Clare, and crossed over and went off shore again south of Cork. It doesn't look much in the scale of the whole picture, but if you know what that little swirl means, it's very revealing of the specifics of the passage of the storm over the South West

The effect of this would have been to significantly increase the local wind speeds as it went through, which does seem to be borne out by the number of places in that line where there are still problems to be resolved. It was very noticeable on the ESB site the number of problems along that line in the south, there were far fewer problems further north and east in comparison to the line from Clare to Cork

The other aspect is that there's been more rain and wind over the last couple of months than would normally be seen over an entire winter, (even more so in the South West of the UK, as has been seen in the Somerset Levels) and that has taken its toll on the infrastructure, trees were definitely loosened by the water and wind combinations, and I know from my own experiences on Wednesday near Dublin, the winds in our area, which were a lot less than down south, were a lot stronger than anything I've experienced in the last 15 years at least, possibly longer.

My own weather station is off the air at the moment, so I don't have specific readings for the storm, there were certainly some very strong gusts and sustained wind speeds recorded at places like Dublin and Shannon Airports.

So, I guess that I's effectively saying that while it wasn't a hurricane technically, the strength of the wind, and the gusts recorded in a good number of places was certainly hurricane force, and even though it was a very short event compared to most, that sort of wind will do significant damage when ground conditions are right, which here means that when the ground is wet, strong winds will do damage, and it's clear from the many pictures that is exactly what has happened. Much of the damage to the ESB networks is where trees have fallen on cables, or poles have been broken, in some cases because the cables have been pulled by a tree or similar.

All we can do right now is trust the people working on it to get it back together again as well as they can. Given the amount of damage, I reckon they've done pretty well, some of the figures in their web reports make for sobering reading,

1,000 wooden poles
250km of conductors
400 transformers

In addition, there are approximately 2,000 locations nationwide where fallen trees have to be cleared from power lines.

They also mentioned that it can take as much as half a day to clear a tree from the route of a line and then repair the line, given the figures above, that's some serious work to be done, and I noticed earlier that even now, some faults in the South East do not yet have a definite resolution time

The numbers above were mentioned several days ago, before the second session of damage on Friday, which caused more faults.

I don't work for ESB, but I've had to deal with them over the years as part of my work, and they've always been responsive to issues reported to them, while there are some shortcomings with their powerview app in terms of the location and naming of the faults, it's a pretty good indication of what's going on, and under normal circumstances, it's updated pretty quickly when a fault does occur, even out of hours, I've seen faults flagged up within 2 minutes of this area tripping out.

I guess that if we're honest, we'd all prefer that there were never faults, that weather didn't damage things in the way that it does, wind and water are both incredibly destructive, I know, we had a significant flood here in 2002, and it takes a long time to recover from this sort of event.

Best wishes to all still affected, it looks like the end is in sight for this storm's damage, though I suspect it will be a while before all the damage has been fully repaired, there will be some issues still outstanding once the initial task of getting everyone back on service has been completed, and they will take time to resolve.