is this going anywhere?

rcarroll

At the moment things are bad between me and my bf, we haven't spoken all day and tbh I'm afraid to incase we break up.

We had a conversation lastnight about marriage - I asked his views on it and he was dead against it. He said he doesn't see the point of it, that if the commitments there then its there....Here's my problem - he's moving back to our country at the end of June - he moved over here about 18mths ago to be with me after 1yr long distance. I'm faced with the decision to either move back or break up. The big problem for me is..what am I moving back for? I don't really feel much enthusiasm from him and when I confronted him on it a few months ago, that I didn't know where we stood, he was half hearted about it - he looked instead at all the practical issues and admitted that he's not sure it's a good move for me to make.

When he goes back he wants to start his own business and would not be able to afford to live together, he wasn't keen on the idea of me supporting him either as he'd feel guilty ( I suggested paying all the rent). He also said he's not sure what he'll do in next few years, will be applying for jobs in his sector all over the world (it's a hard area to get into). On top of that he'll be doing other courses etc that means he won't have much time. He's worried that all of this will be too much of a strain on us and that he doesn't see much for me in all this.

He knows I'm not happy with what our living arrangements would be but I'd be happy to do it short term if I felt there was some sort of commitment there for a future together. We'd talked about kids before and while he wants them he also said he wants them later than me...Problem is, I'm close to 30, he's a year or so younger than me and ideally he'd like to wait 10 yrs or so. I said that's not possible for me and he'd have to compromise if this is going to work. He claimed it wasn't too late for me to start at 40. He has admitted to also having doubts about whether he wants them but majority of the time it seems like he does.

Later, when we were talking about moving back to Ireland he admitted he'd need to give everything serious thought as if I move back I'm doing it with that idea in mind and he agreed that it wouldn't be fair to have me move back and as my time is limited he needs to seriously think about the kids thing.

Over Christmas he was supposed to do this and talk to friends and family about settling down/kids etc. We came back (I spent Christmas abroad) and hadn't talked about it again. I felt like the last time we talked about moving back, he was non-commital, focusing on practical problems and when I pushed him as to whether he actually wanted me back he said 'yeah it'd be nice'....I was upset at this lack of enthusiasm but he claimed it was more that he felt bad about asking me to give up my life here. I assured him that that was my decision to make.

So now the big elephant is there again - I just don't know if he really is pushed about me coming back. I've dropped hints and joked that we'd be splitting in June or I've probed him about movign back, talked about what it'd be like and how cool it would be to do X or Z again...and really, I'm hoping he'd give me some expression of excitement or feeling over it and I hadn't.

The conversation last night, although I wasn't overly pushed about marriage, just made me feel that there's no commitment from him, or not enough really for me to go on...Am I the only one that wants me to move back with him? Am I being an idiot? He's not the best at expressing himself or emotions. After the convo lastnight he gave me a hug and brought me tea in bed this morning but honestly, I'm just so depressed at the situation I left the house and avoided him all day. I'm sick of being the one to start these conversations and am so heartbroken at feeling rejected. Please help.

Stavro Mueller

I think you know the answer to this one but you're afraid to bring your world crashing down around your ears. your opening line says it all: "At the moment things are bad between me and my bf, we haven't spoken all day and tbh I'm afraid to in case we break up."

It takes two people to make a relationship and it would appear that you're the only one who's invested in this one. You sense how fragile things are and that if you say the wrong thing, that'll be death knell for it. Really, how much worse would that be? You're now in a relationship where you're walking around on eggshells. What's the good in that?

thefeatheredcat

To be honest there's a lot of uncertainty and indecision coming from him and a lot too of avoiding reality on both sides, particularly on him going the round about way and beating around the bush about breaking up without actually saying it, or doing it or about staying together (which all sounds like a maybe to me) but instead being vague about plans where it seems you don't really factor in, like you're a shadow. And from you, it seems all what you do hinges on what he does.

Yet what do you want to do in your life? Do you want to be in a relationship with this guy? Do you want to move back? Or would you only be moving back for the sake of continuing your relationship? What do you want to do? Would you prefer to do something else, completely different from what he is planning?

Idle Passerby

It sounds to me like he's giving very loud hints that he wants to break up. He's moving to another country where he wont have time for you, wont be able to live with you and he's telling you he may not even stay in that country. In my opinion all his vagueness translates to "I'm suiting myself, whatever you want to do is up to you"

IrishEyes19

I hate saying this, OP, because I know you dont want to hear it, but he has given no thought to you at all. Now Im not saying that he has to put his life on hold, but it seems to be you who is making all the compromises. I dont think this is man for you, OP, he certainly isnt trying hard enough.

Tokyo

• He's moving back to your home country in June
• He doesn't think that going back to your home country is a "good move" for you to make.
• He refuses to invest in anything that involves commitment, not even to discuss it.
• He's dropping hints about you splitting up in June

OP, I would tell you to read between the lines, but your other half isn't even being subtle enough to put his feelings between lines.....

LegacyUser

He has decided to move home in June, set up a business then and perhaps do some courses but he has not once mentioned where you fit in all of this. He is happy to have you as a girlfriend but he does not want more. Staying with him now, moving to where he lives in the future won't make him change but it will only prolong a relationship that is going nowhere.

I would tell your boyfriend it is over as you know he will end things in June with due to his moving home. I would also tell him that you can't waste any more time with him as he has shown no consideration for you in regards to his plans.

After you do this I would start to make plans for your own life. Perhaps it is time for you to work towards your own long term goals rather than waiting for some man to change your life. Do you like where you currently live, your job ect or what do you really want to do with your life over the next year or two?

rcarroll

OP here. Thanks lads for the replies, just to clarify and respond to a few things.

It's been me that's been joking about splitting in June to gauge a reaction from him. when I've asked him whether he actually wants me to go back or not he's always said yes and he does see a future with me and would like kids with me.

He's a bit younger (27) and fair enough he doesn't want marriage. I'd like a commitment of some sort though I guess before I move back...I don't know what... is that wrong? We've been dating 2 years or so. What else can he give me? He's said having kids with someone is enough of a commitment (in general terms).

As for moving back being 'a bad idea for me' he said it as he knows I love the weather here (sunny) and have a few friends and get paid well. He knows I'm worried about job prospects back home (there's work but not sure how much).

As for living arrangements/not having enough time these are real- he'll be setting up a company and working part-time and doing a course....do you think he's being practical saying he won't have time or do you think he'd still be able to make time if it mattered? Is it just an excuse or is it real?

I guess that's whats freaking me out - it does seem like I'll be making all the compromises and he sees that too..and that worries him that it's a lot of pressure on him/us.....to be fair, he told me from the start he'd be moving back and he really wants to work in his area and it's impossible here. It does seem that i'd be moving back just for him I guess, but it's not the only reason - I have friends and family and I'm lucky that the work I can do I can do anywhere.....but yes, I'd be moving back with the intention that we're starting a life together back home...he's just not sure he'll be in a stable position financially/career wise for a few years......

I'm worried and it seems you guys are too though that he's only using this is a smokescreen? In my op these are things you can all work through if you want it enough..he's just focusing on practical problems...as for him not making enough effort/suiting himself well..he moved here to be with me and we've had a very solid relationship...he's always been thoughtful, caring, loving, patient etc...we have no probs living together and get on really well, spend a lot of time doing our hobby together which we're both passionate baout and he's very supportive

CaraMay

So you are after changing your original post to make him look like the good guy. What is your issue now?

From where I see it he still won't commit to you on a level that will satisfy you.

dellas1979

rcarroll wrote: »

and ideally he'd like to wait 10 yrs or so.

This is the bit that jumped out at me.

10 years? I mean, a year or 2. Grand. Sorting out a few things etc. Some times has to be done.

But 10 years? That's an awful long time and a big ask, to ask someone to wait, in order for them to be ready to commit. And even at that then, what if he still doesnt want to.

The facts are you want to commit, now - you are ready. And he is not.

It might be the same book you are reading, but both definitely not on the same page.

It doesnt mean either is wrong. Both have different wants.

But Ill warn you now m'dear, you cant coerce him into committing to you.

And you cant ignore your needs and what you want in your life to satisfy his 10 year plan.

thefeatheredcat

Again, I'm going to ask you OP, what do YOU want to do?

Not what you should for the sake of your relationship, what do you want to do?

It appears that you knew before he moved over, that he would be moving back with the intention of setting up a business, etc. So you have been aware of this for the last 18 months, and knew before he moved to be with you, that you would have to make a decision. Why now is it do you have an issue with this?

There are some things you can't work through and fix in a relationship. Like marriage as a commitment. He's dead set against getting married. Do you want to get married? And kids.... he's unsure about kids. Will he be sure in 10 years time? Or is that something you'll never get any sort of clarity on if he wants them or not? You say in your second post that he would like kids with you, but as you've explained, just not now or for the foreseeable future. Are you sure he's not just generally saying "sure, yeah, I'd like kids, but I'm not sure if I actually want any with anyone, but without really thinking about it at all, I wouldn't mind having kids at some point in life, perhaps, maybe, sure" that kind of way?

rcarroll wrote: »

The big problem for me is..what am I moving back for?

rcarroll wrote: »

I don't really feel much enthusiasm from him and when I confronted him on it a few months ago, that I didn't know where we stood, he was half hearted about it - he looked instead at all the practical issues and admitted that he's not sure it's a good move for me to make

I've deliberately split this up because I think you need to look again at what you wrote originally. What are you moving back for? Other than your relationship and the friends and family that you later mentioned? Is that enough for you to be happy in your life?
He's raising practical issues..... these are practical issues that ye both should have been aware of and prepared for 18 months ago and during those 18 months. He is needlessly putting obstacles in the path, such as not accepting financial support from you in order for you to live together, because he would feel guilty. I can understand that he might not want to put you out of pocket but it should also be weighed in, that from some of the issues he is raising, such as applying for jobs all over the world, that he cannot offer you a guarantee in the relationship or any certainty that he will be moving back home indefinitely. 2 or 3 years down the line you might be looking at the situation of him moving to some other country that isn't home and isn't where you are now - are you prepared for that? And are you going to move with him because all your decisions seem to hinge on what he does? Is that what you want 2-3 years down the line, to move with him?

rcarroll wrote: »

He knows I'm not happy with what our living arrangements would be but I'd be happy to do it short term if I felt there was some sort of commitment there for a future together.

rcarroll wrote: »

I'd like a commitment of some sort though I guess before I move back.

^^^ This above all if you read anything, please review these parts. Two words. SHORT TERM. Another word, COMMITMENT.

He is not offering you commitment. The not living together is not a short term arrangement. He is not offering commitment of any sort before you move back. He doesn't want marriage. Children with you won't be for maybe 10 years. What is enough of a commitment for you?

I think it is realistic enough to say that he isn't going to have a lot of time for you between setting up a business, working part time and doing a course. These are his priorities for going back home, to focus on these. These will be his focus for that time. He is being practical and realistic that you are probably going to be pushed to the side, he won't be able to give you the time and attention being in a relationship needs and realises it will make you unhappy, and that you would again, only be moving back because of this relationship that he won't have time for! Now, he also could make the time and the effort and the energy for the relationship, but is that something he is enthusiastic about and willing to do?

rcarroll wrote: »

but yes, I'd be moving back with the intention that we're starting a life together back home...

No, actually, you're not starting a life together back home. Not really when he has indiciated he is going to be quite busy with setting up a business, working and a course, and isn't going to have time for a relationship. I think you need to get very realistic about the fact he honestly might not have time for you, for a relationship, for stuff you do in a relationship, that you are going to be unhappy in a very rose tinted ideal of you both "starting a life together back home" because that is not the intention at all.

I hate to be harsh OP but given the turnaround between your posts you seem to be not facing the reality of the situation. All these hints and that about not having time for you is giving you a clear idea that your relationship isn't going to be a priority and that he is telling you now that is how it is going to be, so YOU can make a decision about YOUR life. 6 months after moving back you can't fling this all back at him claiming to be unhappy that you're in a relationship with someone you spend zero time with and that you've been pushed to the side and unhappy that you have no commitment from him and he's still unsure about kids.

If you move with him, you need to move with your eyes wide open before you even make that decision. It would be better that you are looking at the reality of the situation, accepting that there is not going to be any sort of commitment from him now or in the future in the way of marriage, children not for maybe 10 years and that he is offering a way of ending the relationship based on very real circumstances and situations where he feels you're just not going to be happy and where you might find yourself in an unhappy relationship, not getting what you want from it, having given up your job to be in a climate you might not like long term, and with limited job prospects in your area and for what? A relationship that seems solid now, but that is gong to be very different in 6 months time, where the only reason for going is for this relationship that he won't have time for!

Think about it OP.

Meauldsegosha

If children are something you really want OP you can't afford to wait 10 years for him to decide. You said you are nearly 30 so you would be nearly 40 before you start trying to conceive. And the fact is that after the age of 35 a women's fertility begins to reduce and reduces dramatically each year after that. For him to say it's not too late to start at 40 is just wrong. It not his fault many men of his age don't realise this.

Now I'm sure there will be posters who say my sister/cousin/best friend/aunt had a baby at 43/44/45/46 but these people are the exception rather then the norm.

Dellnum

You have been with him 2 years and all he can come up with is reasons why he cannot commit to you. I don't think much of that OP and I think you would be right to break up with him. You are trying to convince yourself that he is on the same page as you are but he is not. He has made that clear. He isn't man enough to tell you to your face that he does not want to commit to you so he puts up other obstacles to try and take the harm out of it. I would run a mile if I were you.

Merkin

I don't think it sounds like he has any intention of committing to you OP, in fact he doesn't sound all that pushed about it all tbh. If marriage and children are important to you then I'd be cutting my losses as I don't think he is going to give you that.

rcarroll

Not what I wanted to hear...but maybe what I need to hear.

We had a big chat tonight, he apologised for not communicating much the past 2 days, said he's been doing a lot of thinking. He was surprised to hear what I said about feeling like he's wishy washy and half arsed about me coming back - he said that no, he really loves me and wants to stay with me, he doesn't want to break up...but when it came to the other stuff he said he's just not sure he can offer me everything I want, that he hasn't really thought about kids etc, that it seems like too much of a burden at his age....I pointed out that realistically I can't wait till past 35 and he agreed but said he find the whole thing, saving for that, and a house etc, overwhelming..that he'll be broke the next while starting the company and who knows if it'll even work.

As for living together, he just doesn't see the point when he has free accomodation back home with his parents. How long that would last he couldn't say and as for getting a job elsewhere, he said there are so few jobs that if one came up in another part ofthe country he'd have to take it as it's an area he really wants to get into.

As for me and what I want out of life - I like where I live now, I love the weather and have a decent job...but I miss the people and the culture back home. I don't see myself settling long term or having a family here - I've learned the language but not really enough to build a solid relationship with a guy here and there's things about the culture I don't want in my kids.

You keep asking what I want out of life - to be honest I'm not sure...I do a job I love, which can be done back home on similar pay but I don't know the market as well, so I'm hesitant that I could guarantee full hours..but I think so. I have friends and family and can practise my sport back home..what else am I supposed to want out of life? I want to start a family, continue doing a job I love...these can be done back home or here..I don't really see the difference.

My problem is and remains - lack of commitment and no definite answer from him on kids...I've a feeling things aren't going to work out. He said maybe in a year or so he'd start wanting kids, but at the moment, he finds the whole commitment and kids and house thing too overwhelming and scary...I can't blame him really as he's a bit younger than me...are all guys like that until they're older?

Taltos

OP he might change in a year or two - but in my opinion that will be with someone else. When you know you know, this "in a year or two" is fine when you are going out a year or two - but after 10???? Nah, he's comfortable and doesn't want change.

As to your job, a job is just a means to an end, a way to fund your life and give you stability. I think like the others you need to step back and really figure out what it is you want. If it's a family and kids well then he has already given you an answer, not the one you want - but really he has - he is just making sure you are the one to end it and he won't come off looking like the bad guy in all of this.

Maybe I'm being cynical but I don't think so, sorry.

Wibbs

dellas1979 wrote: »

It might be the same book you are reading, but both definitely not on the same page.

It doesnt mean either is wrong. Both have different wants.

But Ill warn you now m'dear, you cant coerce him into committing to you.

QFT. Especially the same book, different pages. TBH The ten years aspect is my sticking point. It's very far off. At 27 a decade is like a lifetime away. Never mind that a lot can happen in ten years.

When you talk to him maybe examine that aspect? I understand he is planning on starting a company in the next year. OK he's likely heavily invested mentally in this and may be thinking "oh jesus, now we're having this conversation on top of all that". It doesn't necessarily mean a no from him, but the timing, the wrong page is in play. Like I said see how he views the idea of what you're wanting in two years time. That may be the leeway you both need to get onto the same page. It also means that if it looks like it's not going to happen within those two years hence, you've still got plenty of time.

rcarroll wrote: »

I can't blame him really as he's a bit younger than me...are all guys like that until they're older?

Some are, some aren't. Depends entirely on the guy. However I would say that most guys don't have the sense of a "ticking clock", especially around 30, when compared to many women at that age. The average woman is going to more aware of her fertility at 35 than a man at 35(who likely doesn't even consider it at all). There is much less of the time is running out feeling going on at a visceral and indeed practical level for men. Some blokes reckon "ah sure I could have kids at 60" but that's BS for the vast majority, but they generally do have at least an extra decade to play around with, so that can sometimes inform their thinking on this and lead to a "ah sure we can do that in the future".

This slightly different mindset may explain your guys surprise at your feelings around all this. Maybe he's not even considered it? He's thinking, "I love her, she loves me, we're solid there, but I'm worried about my financial position so I want that all square before we actually commit to something more" or something like that. Actually I've seen kinda similar among my male mates in their late 20's and 30's. A feeling off "oh god I'll never have it all together enough so that we can have a family". The thing is I noticed that when these guys had their kids come along, a) it didn't matter and b) you can never fully prepare for it anyway. But things worked out and worked out because the two people involved actually loved each other and more communicated all the way along. If you're still communicating there's hope.

thefeatheredcat

Apologies if I was a bit harsh OP. The reason I keep asking what you want to do, what you want from life is that I don't think it's a good idea to move on a relationship alone (especially if there's no real commitment and not really any concrete plans or certainty revolving around your boyfriend's plans), in case the relationship itself should cease to be, that there is another valid reason, something more beyond just that relationship for you moving back home. I wouldn't like that it happens that you grow unhappy with your decision and that you'd grow to resent your boyfriend because the sole purpose of moving is motivated by being in and continuing the relationship. You might have wanted to move back at some point, but surely that should also be on your terms too, with plans of your own, or shared plans and a planned shared life, and not just on the terms of your boyfriend's life and his future plans which are very unique to him.

To me, from what you have described from the start, it all sounds like he's going to be going off living his life, and you are welcome to come along for the craic and do whatever you want with your life, if you want to, but he is giving you the opportunity to make an informed decision about that. That's how it comes across to me anyway that there's a lack of "we" and a lot of "i" without much consideration for you.

In very many ways I can see that what he actually is offering, is less than what you deserve. And I think he sees that too. You deserve a boyfriend that can give you commitment that you're both on the same wavelength about. And you deserve all the things that comes with a relationship, and while your boyfriend may love you and you might have the best relationship in the world he isn't going to be offering a relationship you deserve with the commitment and an answer on children, and definitely saying very clearly his plans are priority, that may result in the relationship being on the backburner in the corner. And I think you deserve better than that, and yes he knows that too and he can't give you that.

I think taking a step back and being very realistic about his plans and where you fit into all of it - and where he fits into your plans - is probably the best.

However, if you're adamant about staying together and moving together despite the lack of commitment of a relationship and want to see how things go, then you had better start preparing by at least looking a little more deeply into what jobs are available for you now, review the possibilities, and how you want to set up your life back home; your boyfriend has already done most of this for himself, where he is going to be living, and made his arrangements and plans, and you will definitely want to make sure you do the same.

Matteroffact

He has been pointing out reasons why you should not move back, instead of encouraging you to go home to be with him. Yes, he would make time for you if you mattered enough to him. He should be telling you that he cannot do this without you, not that he cannot do it with you.

You two have been living together for the last 2 years but now he is suggesting that it would be pointless to continue living together as he can live at home when he returns. This doesn't sound good to me.

He is putting up too many obstacles instead of looking at ways that this could work out, as a man in love would do.

As for you OP only go home if you are homesick and would prefer life at home but don't go to be with this guy because he is not seeing you in the same light as you see him.

You can go home but don't expect things are going to work out, there is no guarantee. He has laid his cards on the table so it is up to you now to see things as they are and not as you would like them to be.

The bottom line is he is not leading you on but telling you how it is, so at least that is a plus.

Merkin

rcarroll wrote: »

He was surprised to hear what I said about feeling like he's wishy washy and half arsed about me coming back - he said that no, he really loves me and wants to stay with me, he doesn't want to break up...but when it came to the other stuff he said he's just not sure he can offer me everything I want, that he hasn't really thought about kids etc, that it seems like too much of a burden at his age....I pointed out that realistically I can't wait till past 35 and he agreed but said he find the whole thing, saving for that, and a house etc, overwhelming..that he'll be broke the next while starting the company and who knows if it'll even work.

As for living together, he just doesn't see the point when he has free accomodation back home with his parents. How long that would last he couldn't say and as for getting a job elsewhere, he said there are so few jobs that if one came up in another part ofthe country he'd have to take it as it's an area he really wants to get into.

He may very well claim to love you, and I am sure he does, but is seems like he is giving you a lot of opportunities/reasons to break up with him. He doesn't want to commit to you, he no longer thinks it convenient to live together and he thinks he may have to move away again for work. He is actually quite clearly telling you what you don't want to hear without breaking up with you.

And he may not actually want to break up with you. Not yet. It just so happens that you are on completely different pages unfortunately. Ever heard of right guy, wrong time? I think that might be the case here. You are only 29, he is only 27 or thereabouts. You may love each other hugely. But the fact remains - he's only a young chap and his biological clock (if it even exists for men) won't even have registered, possibly not for another ten years or so (exactly the time frame he has already mentioned).

Sorry to be so candid with you, but he has been straight with you insofar as commitment and kids haven't even featured on his radar, unfortunately for you it took a conversation to precipitate that realization. I think to all intents and purposes he has more or less laid his cards on the table m'dear so the question now is whether you are prepared to hang on ad infinitum. Because I will warn you against one thing, and that is staying with him in the hope you'll change his mind to suit your timeframe - it's highly unlikely that will happen. Not easy to hear but I think it's quite clear what is going on in his head.

Stavro Mueller

thefeatheredcat wrote: »

To me, from what you have described from the start, it all sounds like he's going to be going off living his life, and you are welcome to come along for the craic and do whatever you want with your life, if you want to, but he is giving you the opportunity to make an informed decision about that. That's how it comes across to me anyway that there's a lack of "we" and a lot of "i" without much consideration for you.

I have to say that this is the impression I'm getting as well. I get the sense that you're trailing around in this guy's wake and aren't really a priority. I mean, why isn't he (and you?) trying to figure out a way for him to set up this business and continue to live together? That's what I'd have thought any committed couple would be doing if a situation like this arose.

Flippyfloppy

There's other guys out there op. You need to find your lobster a là phoebe friends.

Neyite

He is telling you OP, but you are not ready to listen I'm afraid. He is telling you in all kinds of ways that no, it is not going anywhere.

When we want to make it work, we find ways to be together, to figure out how our future can be what we both want and we compromise on things for the mutual benefit. His plans are all about him, and if you happen to conveniently slot in alongside them without any input or effort from him, grand, but if not, then he is not interested.

I think that you should cut your losses and please yourself for a change.

rcarroll

thanks guys, Taltos, if it makes a difference, we've been dating two and a bit years not 10.

Had another talk lastnight. He said he can't give me what I want - a firm yes/no answer on kids. He's afraid if I go back to Ireland I'll be asking him in another year and we'd be doing it all over again and I agreed. Fact that he didn't want to even really discuss or suggest re-visiting the issue a few months down the road after going back to Ireland and getting settled and starting his company means he just doesn't want to deal with it.

I don't know if I'm pushing for too much or as my friends recommend I should just take things as they come and not pressure him for answers as he's still too young, and the fact that he's fairly positive about kids most of the times they think is a good sign. But...I think ye all confirmed my doubts about how committed he was to us outside of the kids issue - fact is, when I pushed him, he liked the idea of living seperately for a while and going back to dating and take things less seriously...which is the opposite of what I want which is more commitment, not less.....

.I don't get this - why date for so long, claim to love someone and still claim that at the same time as saying let's be less serious??? Why are guys so dead against commitment? This happened with the last guy, happy to tip along, I've always been a laid back girlfriend, not demanding them to stay in with me or not go out with mates, in fact, last year he got in a tizzy as we're both in a foreign country living together and he did'nt have friends here...he missed having his own time ot himself. I had been telling him all along to go and make friends and get away from the house/us from time to time and he's back to the same damn issue again..he said lastnight, he liked being apart for xmas as he liked having his space, seeing his friends.....and he wants that for when we go back. But I've never stopped him from doing that and I don't see how that has anything to do with our relationship?? Why does liking having time to yourself and see your friends, which he'll be doing when he goes back, have to mean that we need to be less serious?

I guess it doesn't matter, we're finished.

Neyite

rcarroll wrote: »

.I don't get this - why date for so long, claim to love someone and still claim that at the same time as saying let's be less serious??? Why are guys so dead against commitment? This happened with the last guy, happy to tip along, I've always been a laid back girlfriend, not demanding them to stay in with me or not go out with mates, in fact, last year he got in a tizzy as we're both in a foreign country living together and he did'nt have friends here...he missed having his own time ot himself. I had been telling him all along to go and make friends and get away from the house/us from time to time and he's back to the same damn issue again..he said lastnight, he liked being apart for xmas as he liked having his space, seeing his friends.....and he wants that for when we go back. But I've never stopped him from doing that and I don't see how that has anything to do with our relationship?? Why does liking having time to yourself and see your friends, which he'll be doing when he goes back, have to mean that we need to be less serious?

I guess it doesn't matter, we're finished.

Something similar was happening to me OP.
You've recognised a pattern, and somehow in it, the common denominator is you. I suspect that because you are laid back and easy going, you attract similar, who view this as a commitment-free type of setup while they are not looking to settle down.

But, its easy to change that. Be clear from the start what you want - you do want marriage and children, so if they are not interested in that, they wont waste your time. It does not mean that you want to drag them into the nearest registry office, it just means that you want to meet someone who sees the same things in their future, and try out a relationship to see if it has that potential or not.

I'm sorry to hear you are finished, but I do think its for the best.

rcarroll

Hi Neyite

Marriage isn't something I'm looking for but commitment it - I don't really know what else can be a sign of commitment though...??

I mean, I asked if he was committed to us and he said yes all along, and seemed to be - he moved over here to try make it work, tried to work on his issue of lack of communication for me, was vocal in how much I mean to him and how much he loves me and made plans down the line and all....he seemed surprised when I pointed out that the reason I'm freaking out and looking for commitment is that I'm not sure it's there from him - he never actually ASKED me to come back with him nor really tried to persuade me/talk about it...his response lastnight was that he thought he had, and he thought I knew that he wanted me back..I said well no. How could i when you don't seem to open up and talk about plans for home or how much you want me back there?

He then went from that to saying well, actually, he's feeling stressed about the move and that it's pressure on him that things work out and he's afraid of having to talk about having kids another year down the line and that if I was to come back he knows that that's what I want......

as for not being clear...again, I'm a bit mad over this - we talked about kids last year and again before we both moved back here in September so he knew that I wanted kids and he'd told me he felt the same, but not for another 10yrs or so..I told him I couldn't wait and was thinking more like 5/6 to which I didn't really get much response so I thought he understood my position?? Now he's freaking out about it

CaraMay

He has been kicking for touch and hoping it will all go away. Because you hadn't been clear about it / pressurising him he probably thought you weren't that serious.

At least you found out now and not in 5 years time. He was taking the pad of least resistance but this was never going to last as you both want different things.

Merkin

rcarroll wrote: »

as for not being clear...again, I'm a bit mad over this - we talked about kids last year and again before we both moved back here in September so he knew that I wanted kids and he'd told me he felt the same, but not for another 10yrs or so..I told him I couldn't wait and was thinking more like 5/6 to which I didn't really get much response so I thought he understood my position?? Now he's freaking out about it

I think I alluded to this in an earlier post, he actually has been very clear with you. People often tell us what they are thinking if you listen hard enough. He has clearly told you that he wouldn't consider kids for another ten years or so. You said you couldn't wait that long so were waiting around in the hope that he'll change his mind for you.....never a good idea IMHO. So while you're saying you thought he understood YOUR position, I'd have to say that the same goes for him, he told you categorically it would be at least another ten years ago. See my point?

Dellnum

He has enjoyed the relationship for 2 years but he is not prepared to settle down anytime soon. He feels that now is the time to say goodbye because he is trying to be fair to you and himself by re-emphasizing that you both want different things. He can't even see himself discussing this in a year's time and that's how sure he is that what you want is not for him.

You are not pushing for this too much, you are right to get answers now. You owe it to yourself to get these answers. He wants to live separately from you when he goes back so that is most definitely telling you he wants his freedom.

The reason he hung around with you for so long was because he enjoyed your company but he now knows that he cannot give you what you want and the time has come to separate.

Him telling you that he wants to hang around with his friends and live at home is him telling you it is over. Sorry OP I don't mean to be cruel but it needs to be said. He is not going to say "It's over, I don't love you anymore, get lost" he is trying to say it in a kinder way, but it all means the same thing.

The one good thing is that he is letting you know before you waste any more time with him. You have it now in black and white so you should be able to move on. You are still young and beautiful so your chances of meeting someone who will be on the same page as you are excellent.

I know it is very very hard to have to face this breakup. It is the worst pain ever, but you will get through it and now that you know where you stand it will make it easier.

rcarroll

We talked a bit more about things and left things quiet for a while. Yesterday he turned around and asked if we could look at the price of renting a place back home together and see if he can afford it.....I don't know what to say, I said that I know he can't afford it, and what is he trying to tell me? He said he's nervous of going back and that if I go with him, that he's committing to having kids with me, of staying with me for the next 40 years and he finds that scary. He said he still can't give me an answer on the kids, sometimes he loves the idea and sometimes he thinks christ if this job doesn't work out he doesn't want the responsibility of trying to raise them while working in tesco's..and that he sees his friends having kids and they're tied down and fecked financially and it's no fun for him.

He's worried that if we go back we might be in this position a year or two down the line, him having doubts and we still have the same problem (him not able to open up and talk about worries he has). He's scared that we go back and continue dating and what if a few years later he still doens't know about the kids and I've run out of time and he's taken that chance from me.

He said at times he feels he wants his freedom and feels this will be going in too serious a direction for his age, but mostly he's really happy with me and knows he's so lucky to have someone like me...he's worried he won't find that again, that he'd be an idiot to let this go and again said that he'd no idea I didn't feel included in the plans, he'd assumed that I was coming back with him and didn't realise I didn't feel wanted.

So with all that I said I don't know really...to go back knowing you are so afraid of committing to me...when really, it's still just me at the end of the day and nothings changed in that way...I think it's just the concept of making a decision now to commit to kids/rest of his life..which is what he sees me going back to Ireland as...

But having those doubts...this is his first serious relationship, he has nothing to compare it with, and thing is, I don't have those doubts cos i've got other relationships to look back on and know he's a great partner...he doesn't and is not sure as a result. Maybe it won't work because of that, he needs to go and grow up a bit, date other people and realise what he wants..he's worried a few years down the line what if he meets somebody else. I'm worried I won't feel he's committed and that'll drive me mad and we'd fight in the future over it...

I also know that I've probably been putting too much pressure on him by not having my own plans and my own reasons to go back. He said the idea that I wanted a house and kids etc on the income I'd be getting freaked him out, how was I talking about those things and not have a decent salary....

So what now? Is breaking up still a good idea, is it worth going back knowing commitment freaks him out so much? As my dad says, he's over thought everything when sometimes oyu have to just let things happen..

Merkin

In light of your detailed post nothing has actually changed though has it? Not really OP. It fundamentally boils down to the fact that he cannot and will not commit to when that is all you want. And no amount of lengthy discussions is likely to change that. Like I said, I would never continue a relationship with someone who differs from you so fundamentally in the hope of changing their minds - life doesn't work out like that.

I'd be cutting my losses if I were you. If marriage and kids are this important to you in the short to medium term this man is not going to be the man to offer you that.

rcarroll

By the way the issue we had last year was he said he wanted space and found living with me too intense - basically, as he had no friends here we were with each other pretty much 24/7....but in the end it turned out that whilst that was a bit of an issue it boiled down to wanting to experiment sexually but was too afraid to ask. Once he realised i was ok with the things he wanted to try, he was happy as larry and said that was what was behind all the rest of things. I was pretty mad that he'd let it get to that stage before talking, and again, this time round, I told him that whilst he's made improvements, I've tried to talk about the move home and his feelings a few times and he hadn't engaged. And this time again he's let it get to the stage of breaking up before he'll talk about his fears

Idle Passerby

I'd have to agree with the above. It sounds like he cares about you but he is essentially happy to keep it casual for now. He's trying to keep you happy by giving you a token gesture in the medium term (getting a house together when you move back) but even that level of commitment is making him uncomfortable.

I think it would be frustrating and disheartening for you in the long term, feeling like you have to push him forward all the time with developments that should be happening naturally.

rcarroll

Hi Merkin,

Marriage isn't - feeling that there's a commitment there is.....kids are though - I'd love myself to wait till I was 40 but I know that's impossible and I've said that to him....he said he's just not sure if he wants them

rcarroll

Hi Idle

I agree and said that to him - that I don't want to push for commitment from him as I'd be unhappy long term with that....

but then again- the fact that he's looking asking me back to Ireland as equal to signing up to the rest of our lives together means he's not seeing it as casual and if I go back he knows that it won't be, that it'll be a big commitment

Tokyo

It seems to me as if he's trying to keep you on the hook, but at the end of a very long line. He makes the minimum commitment necessary to stop you from jumping ship completely, and enough to plans the seeds of "maybe there is a possibility of a future", while still maintaining the exact same distance he did when you wrote the first post here.

At this stage I think you need to be having conversations about a more permanent future plan than 'maybe we could look at the price of renting a place back home together and see if he can afford it", and if he can't commit to more, then I think that you should be reconsidering your relationship, simply because it doesn't tally up with what you are looking for in life.

Merkin

I think for someone who is so uncomfortable about even the prospect of living with you again, then he is not going to be wanting kids any time soon. This is no reflection on you, it just seems like you are at totally different stages in your lives and while he seems fond of you etc I wouldn't allow myself to indulge in false hopes.

When someone wants to commit to you (be it through marriage or kids or both) they leave you in no doubt about it. It doesn't involve brow-beating or pleading or lengthy talks. It's just easy. You're both on the same page and these developments are just organic, happening naturally as love grows deeper. It's what you both want.

You say he won't engage with you and I think that's because he won't actually be brutally honest with you and tell you that it's simply not going to happen. Because that means you'll have to break up when he mightn't necessarily want that.

Sorry to be so brutal, I really think you're wasting your time.

Idle Passerby

rcarroll wrote: »

Hi Idle

I agree and said that to him - that I don't want to push for commitment from him as I'd be unhappy long term with that....

but then again- the fact that he's looking asking me back to Ireland as equal to signing up to the rest of our lives together means he's not seeing it as casual and if I go back he knows that it won't be, that it'll be a big commitment

They are just vague maybe's. He hasn't actually done anything to suggest he wants a future with you. And it seems even the vague promises have to be dragged out of him.

What you've said about how getting a place together in Ireland would be a big commitment for him doesnt ring true either. You already live together, so all he's doing is agreeing for it to stay as it already is.

rcarroll

Living together would be a big commitment as financially he cant afford to and i had offered to support him while he starts his business...he said a) he feels that would be too much to ask to which i teplied thats what being in a partnership is about....and tbh i said maybe we see this rel differently then...and his second doubt was that itd b too much for me to give when he's not sure about kids and what if a yr later he doesnt want them he'd feel really bad that id put myself out so much and he'd feel obligated or tied to have kids cos of it......

I dont know what he can do to show he's committed as offering to live together now doesnt feel enough... I kind of wish he'd left things broken up as now I feel on hold and desperate for clutching at straws... :'-(

Merkin

rcarroll wrote: »

I dont know what he can do to show he's committed

But the point I have been trying to make to you is that he is NOT committed so expecting him to SHOW you commitment really is a contradiction in terms when it doesn't actually exist.

Idle Passerby

rcarroll wrote: »

I dont know what he can do to show he's committed as offering to live together now doesnt feel enough... I kind of wish he'd left things broken up as now I feel on hold and desperate for clutching at straws... :'-(

Then leave it broken up. He is not being kind in keeping you on the hook but offering nothing. Despite sounding like a nice enough guy, he is only doing this because it suits him to leave it up in the air. It obviously makes you very unhappy though.

The truth is, he is nowhere near being ready to make the kind of commitment you want. Do you either wait in the wings, possibly for years, for him to maybe want a real commitment someday, or do you admit you have given him enough time already and make the decision that will mean you are in charge of your own future instead of leaving it up to him to decide.

seenitall

rcarroll wrote: »

clutching at straws... :'-(

Hi OP,

having read the thread, I agree with most on here. I think you are really clutching at straws from your bf here, but he is also partly to blame for leading you on.

It looks to me the situation is exactly Mike says, your bf is not ready to let you go but is being very careful not to commit to any kind of definite future with you either, giving you just enough rope so you will end up hanging your own self on your dashed hopes.

I realise that your feelings are clouding your judgment right now, you are human after all, but honestly, isn't what he said about being scared that he'll fall for someone else in the future, a big red flag for you?? That isn't the talk from someone who is in love with their gf, that is the talk from someone who has one foot out the door already - I'd be heartbroken if a bf told me something like that!!

I think you know exactly what is happening here, he is too young and inexperienced for you and will, in time, be looking for pastures new. All this talk of to-ing and fro-ing on kids and houses and businesses is just papering over that painful fact. The two of you are on different pages in life and that can't be helped.

Given his inexperience, he probably doesn't know how to break up a proper relationship properly. I would be doing it for him if I were you, OP, that is honestly the best thing you can do for both of ye right now.

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ON SOMETHING YOUR GUT IS TELLING YOU IS ALL WRONG. You would be sorry if you did, OP, this has heartbreak written all over it.

Be on your own for a while, you need it, and in time you will find someone who will be compatible and then it will be easy. You will look back in amazement on how much energy you expanded on something that wasn't worth it.

Best wishes.

Merkin

Idle Passerby wrote: »

Then leave it broken up. He is not being kind in keeping you on the hook but offering nothing.

But I think the OP is equally as culpable here Idle, if not moreso.

She is persisting on keeping this thing going when he has expressly said he doesn't want children for most probably 10 years, if at all. All the signs are there that he's not invested in this. The impetus is equally with the OP to put an end to the relationship so I honestly don't feel he is leading her on when he has been quite honest in saying he won't commit.

Idle Passerby

Merkin wrote: »

But I think the OP is equally as culpable here Idle, if not moreso.

She is persisting on keeping this thing going when he has expressly said he doesn't want children for most probably 10 years, if at all. All the signs are there that he's not invested in this. The impetus is equally with the OP to put an end to the relationship so I honestly don't feel he is leading her on when he has been quite honest in saying he won't commit.

That is a fair point.

OP, all the hoping for change in the world wont make it happen. It sounds to me like he is giving you an out with all his hesitancy (whether he consciously admits that's what it is or not). He is happy with it the way it is. He has admitted he isn't interested in it moving forward in the foreseeable future, in fact he would be happier with it becoming more distant.

You say you wished he had left it broken up. Why don't you choose to end it. Don't leave the decision in his hands as he is happy with it the way it is, he has no reason to want to break up but you do.

purplecow1977

The signs would be setting off an alarm in my head. It doesn't sound like he wants you around so why would you force it? Sadly it appears he's just too much of a coward to break up with you so why don't you have a bit of courage and do it? It's best in the long run I would imagine.

Chara1001

I'm not sure what else he can tell you op.
What I think it boils down to is:

1. He is moving home and is in no way encouraging you even though you are open to the idea, in fact he is discouraging you.
2. You want a commitment (marriage) and he explicitly doesn't.
3. You want to have children and he doesn't (if he did, he would just say 'yes', not some days i think i would like to and some days not). But to leave the door slightly ajar on the subject, he has given you enough hope to think you can change his mind.
4. Op, to wait 10 years on a slight hope would be a very very silly thing to do.

I know how horrible these conversations are, but you really have to listen to him. He's saying no.

rcarroll

Id left things as they were..he moved into a hostel and we both stared looking for a flat. He came round today and started asking where I want to live when we go back and that he's found a few.flats and where do I want to live longterm and that he'd just.been freaked out by the idea of committing to so long and that he wasnt sure what he'll be able to afford in the next few years as he doesnt know of his company will work....he had found the idea of a mortgage etc scary and doesnt know if he'll be able to give me that for a longer time than I was thinking....he also said he'd wanted.kids later bt hadnt realised i was under time pressure and had oroginally planned

rcarroll

Sorry writing on a mobile

so he'd originally planned kids later than what i was suggesting and wasnt ready to consider earlier but now he says he is and wants a family with me and ok, it might have to be earlier than he originally planned....

So now im confused....he's just done an about turn...i also said why are ou talking about ireland as we're broken up....he got a shock and said he thought we were just talking and I needed a few days space.....i said eh...we're lookkng at seperate flats???

As for his comment about wanting to live seperately for space he claims its cos eveery time we were home we lived seperately and he enjoyed it and wasthinking

purplecow1977

Sounds like a rollercoaster relationship - up, down, down, up, up etc.

Your messages are kind of confusing to read also, was that last one finished?????

Idle Passerby

Actions speak louder than words. He is saying something new but I wouldn't be too quick to believe there will actually be any follow through. To me it looks like he's just trying to get you back on side.

Surely he's not so dim that he didn't realise you'd broken up. Seems to me the only thing he doesn't realise is how serious you are about wanting a serious relationship.