White bread Vs brown bread

Einhard

Hey,

So I love my white bread. I also love the fact that I'm losing a lot of weight and would like that to continue. And just reading up on a few things it would seem that the two are in conflict with one another. I could eat a full sliced pan a week, and I think I could make the swap if convinced of the benefit. However, I don't really know the ins and outs of it nutrition wise. I was surprised recently to see that a wholemeal pan I checked actually hd more calories per slice than a white pan. This made me somewhat cynical. So, could someone educate me on why wholemeal bread is so much more beneficial than white when losing weight? I know I could google but there are so many zealots out there pushing various agendas, that I'd prefer to get the ino here from people I can trust!!

Thanks in advance.

Mr. CooL ICE

Nutritionally, they're practically identical. Brown generally has more fibre, but that's it.

I'd recommend just not eating it. However, if you're dead set on eating bread, instead of switching to a brown equivalent of slice pan, why not try a different type of bread? Something like sourdough bread is considered healthier. Not sure of the ins and outs of it though.

bohsfan

This is my understanding of it: White bread is made from highly refined white flour and has little fibre so, as a simple carb, it's very quickly converted to sugar. If you don’t use the sugar and your body will convert it to fat – and store it. You’ll also spend the rest of the day craving even more sugar as your blood sugar levels will be unstable.

Complex carbs like wholegrain brown rice, lentils, mixed beans, wholegrain bread etc. don't break down in the same quick fashion- you’ll be fuller for longer and they will keep your blood sugar levels stable reducing cravings.

So, while they may have similar calorie counts it is the way that the carbs are digested that makes the difference. I'm open to correction though!

Einhard

Thanks for the replies.

From what I understand from you, there's not much of a difference between the two in terms of outright calories and the effect on weight loss that stems from that. However, wholegrains break down in a different fashion and reduce cravings, and thus reducing the chances of one going back for more later. This about right?

If though, one can control the cravings etc, then there's nothing really to distinguish the two?

rubadub

Lots of "brown bread" is is made with refined white flour with a token amount of wholemeal or wholegrain stuff mixed in. So if you are after true brown bread read the ingredients carefully.

runawaybishop

rubadub wrote: »

Lots of "brown bread" is is made with refined white flour with a token amount of wholemeal or wholegrain stuff mixed in. So if you are after true brown bread read the ingredients carefully.

This^^. Thers very little between most brown and white breads on the market. A slice or two once in a while is grand, but it shouldn't form the basis of your lunch and breakfast.

generic2012

Einhard wrote: »

If though, one can control the cravings etc, then there's nothing really to distinguish the two?

Correct. More nutrients, fibre and protein in wholemeal though.

Inspector Coptoor

Remove both types of bread and all gluten from your diet for 8 weeks and see how you feel.

You won't look back

Holsten

Neither.

Brown will just have more nutrients but still bad.

runawaybishop

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Remove both types of bread and all gluten from your diet for 8 weeks and see how you feel.

You won't look back

Why? Bread is handy and delicious. There's no need to go overboard.

Inspector Coptoor

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why? Bread is handy and delicious. There's no need to go overboard.

Because gluten derived from processed wheat has been proven to be inflammatory & cause wheat belly & bloatedness at beat, & IBS & Coeliac disease at worst.

I don't eat bread at all anymore and feel all the better for it.

rubadub

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why? Bread is handy and delicious.

I find donuts more tasty and put them in the same junkfood bracket as bread now. I have cut down a lot, if I am going to eat crap it is sure as hell going to be a donut before a slice of white bland sponge which is almost as bad.

I eat ryvitas for a "bread fix", and use chopped up cabbage as a filler with meals where I usually had bread/rolls.

Ireland is supposed to have an unusually high occurrence of gluten intolerance. I have seen claims that a far higher proportion of the population have some sort of reaction to it, though not sure if that's true, or how bad the reaction is supposed to be.

runawaybishop

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Because gluten derived from processed wheat has been proven to be inflammatory & cause wheat belly & bloatedness at beat, & IBS & Coeliac disease at worst.

I don't eat bread at all anymore and feel all the better for it.

For everyone and all glutens? Are you sure about that?

rubadub wrote: »

I find donuts more tasty and put them in the same junkfood bracket as bread now. I have cut down a lot, if I am going to eat crap it is sure as hell going to be a donut before a slice of white bland sponge which is almost as bad.

I eat ryvitas for a "bread fix", and use chopped up cabbage as a filler with meals where I usually had bread/rolls.

Ireland is supposed to have an unusually high occurrence of gluten intolerance. I have seen claims that a far higher proportion of the population have some sort of reaction to it, though not sure if that's true, or how bad the reaction is supposed to be.

I don't disagree in general with what you've posted, but a blanket statement like "bread is bad for everyone" clearly cannot be accurate. Bread is the new fat is the new sugar etc.

silverharp

While clearly not everyone is a 30 stone blob because they eat wheat anyone trying to lose weight while eating bread, pasta or wheat based cereals probably are making their job harder. personally I dont eat wheat or corn based products most of the time except when on a "cheat day" So I might have 1 bagels a week or 1 "big mac"



http://preventdisease.com/news/12/011612_Modern-Wheat-Really-Isnt-Wheat-At-All.shtml

.....The appetite-stimulating properties of modern wheat most likely occurred as an accidental by-product of largely unregulated plant breeding methods, Dr. Davis explains. But he charges that it's impact on inflammatory diseases may have something to do with the fact that, in the past 15 years, it's been showing up in more and more processed foods. Wheat ingredients are now found in candy, Bloody Mary mixes, lunch meats, soy sauce, and even wine coolers.
As if making you hungrier wasn't enough, early evidence suggests that modern wheat's new biochemical code causes hormone disruption that is linked to diabetes and obesity. "It is not my contention that it is in everyone's best interest to cut back on wheat; it is my belief that complete elimination is in everyone's best health interests," says Dr. Davis, "In my view, that's how bad this thing called 'wheat' has become."
Replace Wheat With Spelt
Spelt is an ancient grain that has lately made a comeback in North America, even though it has been popular through the decades in many European countries. Spelt is a non-hybrid distant relative to present day wheat. Spelt's uniqueness is derived from its genetic makeup and nutrition profile. Spelt has high water solubility, so nutrients are easily absorbed by the body making it easy to digest. It is high in protein (significantly higher than wheat), higher in B complex vitamins, and spelt is high in both simple and complex carbohydrates. These complex carbohydrates are an important factor in blood clotting and stimulating the body's immune system. Spelt is a suberb fiber resource. Spelt's nutty flavor doesn't just taste good, it has so many other nutritional benefits that are amazingly good for you! Keep reading to find out more about how spelt’s nutrients contribute to lower risk of cardiovascular (heart) disease, type II diabetes, and can lessen occurrences of migraine headaches.

siochain

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Remove both types of bread and all gluten from your diet for 8 weeks and see how you feel.

You won't look back

This ^^^

Try and see how it works out for you.

SPS1

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Because gluten derived from processed wheat has been proven to be inflammatory & cause wheat belly & bloatedness at beat, & IBS & Coeliac disease at worst.

I don't eat bread at all anymore and feel all the better for it.

False on all accounts. There has been no direct link made between consuming gluten/lectins/antinutrients & all the other ingredients the anti-wheat brigade love to target bread only for, with inflammation etc in an otherwise healthy individual. You guys would do well to understand the research papers you read before coming out with zhite like this.

If you have been clinically diagnosed with celiac disease, then yes limit it. Otherwise there is little health reason to cut a whole food group out because of some placebo effect that you feel better without it in your diet after reading how "bad" it is for you.

Inspector Coptoor

I'm a scientist, with a degree in biochemistry.
I can read research papers.

Do you work for Mr Brennan?
I hear his product is a good source of protein....

runawaybishop

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I'm a scientist, with a degree in biochemistry.
I can read research papers.

Do you work for Mr Brennan?
I hear his product is a good source of protein....

I have no shoes and no shirt but i still get service.

Why don't you post the papers so we can have a gander?

generic2012

I dig ya coptoor.

FortuneWookiee

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Remove both types of bread and all gluten from your diet for 8 weeks and see how you feel.

You won't look back

I'm totally anti anti-wheat (for reasons outlined in numerous threads)! But people keep saying this and i am curious so I'm going to give it a go and see.

I remain a skeptic, but time will tell I guess.

siochain

FortuneWookiee wrote: »

I'm totally anti anti-wheat (for reasons outlined in numerous threads)! But people keep saying this and i am curious so I'm going to give it a go and see.

I remain a skeptic, but time will tell I guess.

Good luck and I look forward to hearing how you get on. Plan well as wheat is a filler ingredient in so many products.

FortuneWookiee

siochain wrote: »

Good luck and I look forward to hearing how you get on. Plan well as wheat is a filler ingredient in so many products.

Will do. I rarely eat pasta. Don't eat cereal except porridge. It's really the bread so I'm hoping it'll be grand.

thegreatiam

To be honest I don't come down on either side of the health argument for bread. My problem with it is that it contributes nothing to a diet in a y real way that can't be gotten elsewhere.

When you're on a weight loss program then each calorie counts so you need to choose you calories to make up your total.
You need to consume enough food to fill you up and provide all of your nutrients.
Bread is usually 100-200 empty calories with no nutritional benefit and you'll be just as hungry shortly after eating it as you were before. So if you want to restrict your calories it is usually the easiest thing to remove from everybodies diet.

In the same way engineers will tear out the unnecessary part of a car to make it lighter you need to tear the inefficient parts of your diet. Sure air con is nice, but it's the first thing to go when improving a performance vehicle. Because performance wise it does nothing only adds weight to the car. Bread is the same.it just adds calories to a meal which don't need to be there.

Look at the role bread has in your normal diet. Most likely it is there because it is a filler rather than a staple. Or because you couldn't think of anything else to have with dinner instead. Or its there to keep your fingers clean. Once you realise this you'll find that you can just remove bread and the unnecessary calories it has.

I used to eat tonnes of bread. Once i noticed that it was little more than cutlery for lifting bacon into my mouth I ditched it and just ate the bacon.
Now I eat bread on occasion. I'm not going to say I feel better because if it. I do feel better. But that is because I changed my whole diet. Maybe ditching bread was part of the improvement, maybe it wasn't. But my diet is a million times better for removing it.

Like rubadub said enjoy the other bread products as a treat and let the rest of your diet function as a bread replacement.

Cabbage. Kale. Spinach make a great base to serve food on instead of bread and pasta.
I add more veg to stir fry and negate the need to want noodles.

Instead of sandwiches have the same ingredients but as a salad instead. Removing bread from a sandwich gives you about 200 calories of extra filling to have instead.

Also bread is all much of a muchness. There isn't any real difference between types. A bagel, a wrap, a pita, brown, white, wholewheat, are all the exact same thing just different shapes. Any improvement one makes over another is mostly negligible. So your choice of bread makes no matter. It's like choosing Benson and hedges over marlboro lights.
Add into the processing of bread further makes it worse for you is just more reasons not to bother with it.

SPS1

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I'm a scientist, with a degree in biochemistry.
I can read research papers.

Do you work for Mr Brennan?
I hear his product is a good source of protein....

And yet I'm still awaiting these reviewed studies & literature reviews summarising the current direction, that wheat is a food that should be avoided by anybody whenever I get into this debate...

Or better yet, give me one reason why you arbitrarily bash wheat for its anti-nutritional factors as opposed to other plants containing high quantities of these, (without resorting to gluten, which in an otherwise healthy individual is not problematic)

Greenmachine

How did this thread get hijacked into a platform for the anti-wheat brigade.
It has been said already but when it comes to the like of a slicepan, there is very little difference between white or brown sliced pans. Where it come to the likes of real homemade bread, you will find a real difference there .

Einhard

Einhard wrote: »

From what I understand from you, there's not much of a difference between the two in terms of outright calories and the effect on weight loss that stems from that.

If you like both brown and white, choose brown.
If you prefer white, have it.
If you're a coeliac, have neither.

In terms of outright calories, they aren't the same. Calories count the amount of energy in the food, not the amount of calories your body takes from that food. Your body doesn't break down absolutely everything in your food. White bread is already very much broken down as it is. So the idea with brown bread is that due to the added roughage in the flour used (bearing in mind that brown bread has a mix of both white and brown flour, so sometimes you are still eating a lot of white flour), you don't actually consume as many of those calories, even if they look the same on paper.

It's important to eat well, and watch what you eat, especially when you're looking to lose weight. But there's no need to cut out all bread from your diet if you like it. You're looking to be healthy, not miserable. It's up to you and how difficult you'd find it to cut out bread. On the upside though, cutting out bread might make you cut out any unnecessary snacks, and encourage you to make healthier snacks when you do need one.

Inspector Coptoor

SPS1 wrote: »

And yet I'm still awaiting these reviewed studies & literature reviews summarising the current direction, that wheat is a food that should be avoided by anybody whenever I get into this debate...

Or better yet, give me one reason why you arbitrarily bash wheat for its anti-nutritional factors as opposed to other plants containing high quantities of these, (without resorting to gluten, which in an otherwise healthy individual is not problematic)

The reason is simply this:
Plants like fruits, have fleshy ovaries for us to eat so we transport the seeds away from the parent plant and then pass them out, thereby avoiding competition with the parent plant.
If fruits had a brain & thoughts, they'd want us to eat them, although they wouldn't want us to be pooping in toilets.

Grass type plants like wheat do NOT have fleshy ovaries. They have not evolved to want their seeds to be eaten by us, never mind processed & milled and refined.
They contain proteins like gluten, lectin & giladin which can have detrimental effects on gut health

Sangre

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

The reason is simply this:
Plants like fruits, have fleshy ovaries for us to eat so we transport the seeds away from the parent plant and then pass them out, thereby avoiding competition with the parent plant.
If fruits had a brain & thoughts, they'd want us to eat them, although they wouldn't want us to be pooping in toilets.

Grass type plants like wheat do NOT have fleshy ovaries. They have not evolved to want their seeds to be eaten by us, never mind processed & milled and refined.
They contain proteins like gluten, lectin & giladin which can have detrimental effects on gut health

Its irrelevant if the plants have evolved to be eaten or not. The only relevant fact is whether we have evolved in such a way that means that we can eat them without issue (which I am not commenting on).

Alf Veedersane

I'm not pro- or anti-bread. But I wonder if our love affair with bread is real or habital. Like the very good jam said, it's usually just a conduit to get nice ingredients into your face hole. Without realising it, I have given up bread in the last couple of months by just recalibrating my food intake. I LOVED toasties. I'll occasionally have one but I haven't yet-i'm just disinclined to rule it out 'cause I love them. Do I miss bread? No. Is it a conscious decision to not have it? No. But I just get my calories elsewhere. I've McCambridges in the freezer at work for days I'm busy and planning hasn't covered me for lunch. I'll have a slice with tuna. Maybe two if i'm feeling bold... But I've found that it's not a big deal to not have bread and I don't feel like I'm missing out or that I'm depriving myself.

thegreatiam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Like the very good jam said,

its greatjam
you'd do well to remember it

SPS1

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

The reason is simply this:
Plants like fruits, have fleshy ovaries for us to eat so we transport the seeds away from the parent plant and then pass them out, thereby avoiding competition with the parent plant.
If fruits had a brain & thoughts, they'd want us to eat them, although they wouldn't want us to be pooping in toilets.

Grass type plants like wheat do NOT have fleshy ovaries. They have not evolved to want their seeds to be eaten by us, never mind processed & milled and refined.
They contain proteins like gluten, lectin & giladin which can have detrimental effects on gut health

This logic is so flimsy, that to apply it to our diet, would leave very few foods available for us to eat.

Now if you are arguing fruitarianism. I'm bowing out cause it is far off track of the op.

Orla K

I don't bother with bread I find it makes thyroid systems worse. If you do want to eat it sprouted sourdough bread would be best. I wouldn't recommend bread but if you want to eat it get the proper stuff not a sliced pan.

Inspector Coptoor

Two good reads

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/page/dark-side-wheat-new-perspectives-celiac-disease-wheat-intolerance-sayer-ji

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/page/opening-pandoras-bread-box-critical-role-wheat-lectin-human-disease

Alf Veedersane

thegreatiam wrote: »

its greatjam
you'd do well to remember it

You've been downgraded by Moodys.

SPS1

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Two good reads

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/page/dark-side-wheat-new-perspectives-celiac-disease-wheat-intolerance-sayer-ji

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/page/opening-pandoras-bread-box-critical-role-wheat-lectin-human-disease

Glanced at the references & just like any other time I challenge somebody on this topic. Many if not all of them are studies on celiacs.

To reiterate myself. Unless you are clinically diagnosed with celiac disease as opposed to reading some .com article like you linked & self-diagnosing yourself, there is no reason to wholly avoid wheat.

Inspector Coptoor

Given my sister is Coeliac and I've seen her reaction to it, and like many other conditions, it can have a genetic basis, I'm going to steer clear.
I'm not self diagnosing, just choosing not to eat wheat products

Tiddlypeeps

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Given my sister is Coeliac and I've seen her reaction to it, and like many other conditions, it can have a genetic basis, I'm going to steer clear.
I'm not self diagnosing, just choosing not to eat wheat products

You are aware that you are genetically predisposed to gluten intolerance, you feel better after cutting it out for a period of time and your conclusion after this is to recommend that everybody should not eat gluten regardless of circumstance.

Inspector Coptoor

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

You are aware that you are genetically predisposed to gluten intolerance, you feel better after cutting it out for a period of time and your conclusion after this is to recommend that everybody should not eat gluten regardless of circumstance.



If the above is how you typically draw conclusions then you are not a very good scientist.

It was a general recommendation.
I said to try it for 6 weeks.
I'm aware that the value of n=1 experiments aren't great, the OP asked a question, I gave a recommendation.

The thing about gluten sensitivity is that it isn't black & white.
You aren't either Coeliac or non-Coeliac,
There are regions in between ranging from low-medium-high sensitivity.

Your 2nd comment is actually uncalled for.

What are you going to add to the discussion?

Tiddlypeeps

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

It was a general recommendation.
I said to try it for 6 weeks.
I'm aware that the value of n=1 experiments aren't great, the OP asked a question, I gave a recommendation.

The thing about gluten sensitivity is that it isn't black & white.
You aren't either Coeliac or non-Coeliac,
There are regions in between ranging from low-medium-high sensitivity.

Your 2nd comment is actually uncalled for.

What are you going to add to the discussion?

You are back tracking now. You didn't just say try it for 6 weeks, you said it causes all sorts of things including IBS and Coeliac (quoted below). It's fine to say your mind has been changed but trying to make out you never said it in the first place is disingenuous.

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Because gluten derived from processed wheat has been proven to be inflammatory & cause wheat belly & bloatedness at beat, & IBS & Coeliac disease at worst.

I don't eat bread at all anymore and feel all the better for it.

I apologise for insulting you but you cannot come out with a statement like the above and stand over with by just saying "I'm a scientist, there for I'm right" and not expect to be called on it. Especially when done in such a condescending fashion (the Mr. Brennan comment).

The value of an experiment that only includes one person isn't just not great, it's totally useless because you cannot derive any conclusions from it whatsoever. Not only is it a tiny sample size there is also no control study. You feeling much better could be from any number of external factors, it could be a placebo because you expect to feel better etc etc etc. It's bad science.

Also I am adding to the conversation. Calling people out on spreading misinformation is just as useful as adding new information.

Anyway the discussion the OP was looking for wasn't if bread is poison, it was does brown bread really make a difference which was pretty well covered on the first page.

metamorphosis

Attack the post not the poster.

I make an agreement with gluten sensitivity not been black or white. In fact in many cases, it is largely grey.

People can have the propensity to build up sensitivity over time. If it forms the basis of your daily diet, best cut back as a starting point

Inspector Coptoor

I'm not back tracking at all.
I have formed my opinion.

Once again, you have contributed nothing to the discussion except attack my points.

Do you not think the Mr. Brennan's ad is misleading?

I have spread no misinformation, at all,
And if you want to re-read that other post, I said "I can read research papers", I've never once claimed to be "right".
There are billions of people with billions of different genotypes and epigenotypes, there is no 1 size fits all answer

Alf Veedersane

metamorphosis wrote: »

Attack the post not the poster.
I make an agreement with gluten sensitivity not been black or white. In fact in many cases, it is largely grey.

People can have the propensity to build up sensitivity over time. If it forms the basis of your daily diet, best cut back as a starting point

^ This.

No harm in giving bread a miss for a while and seeing how you feel. I pretty much gave it up without realising and I'm in the best shape of my life (not that that means I'm in brilliant shape) and yes it could be to several things but no point in ruling out the effect of bread dodging just because it's not the main reason for my improvement.

sawdoubters

a lot of the brown bread is white bread dyed brown

if you see enriched flour

Tiddlypeeps

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I'm not back tracking at all.
I have formed my opinion.

Once again, you have contributed nothing to the discussion except attack my points.

Do you not think the Mr. Brennan's ad is misleading?

I have spread no misinformation, at all,
And if you want to re-read that other post, I said "I can read research papers", I've never once claimed to be "right".
There are billions of people with billions of different genotypes and epigenotypes, there is no 1 size fits all answer

Countering something somebody says IS discussion. If you aren't willing to have your points challenged then you should not state them on a message board.

I must be picking up something very wrong, why would you claim that gluten is bad and does all sorts of bad things if you didn't think you were right

Inspector Coptoor

I'm confused too.

I'm done trying to discuss thiIs with you.
Topic unfollowed

SPS1

Lol wtf just happened? I've never seen such a digression from a topic in such few posts by so few members.

siochain

SPS1 wrote: »

Lol wtf just happened? I've never seen such a digression from a topic in such few posts by so few members.

The auld wheat debate always degenerates to this there are loads of similar treads.

This is how they generally go:

Is bread bad for us?

Majority of people who have given it up testify to having various positive outcomes.

Majority agree most breads are crap nutrition.

Then then you have a few who refuse to take people's word on how the benefited from giving the stuff up and have never given it up for any length of time to be able to know for themselves. Then derail the tread with pointless stuff.



The simple answer is try and see for yourselves. Like anything you see on the net about health and fitness claims do the the research, trial it yourself, measure results, if it works for you keep going if not bin the idea.

Redriddick

I make my own bread.Dont know how healthy it is but heres the receipe:
400g wholemeal flour
100g white flour
50g sesame seeds
50g linseed
1 egg
1 tablespoon of olive oil or equivilent
1 teaspoon of bread soda
400ml of butter milk.
Add flour,seeds and bread soda in a bowl and mix.
Then add egg and oil and buttermilk stir all together.
Tip into greased baking tin and cook at 180c for 50 min.
Job done!!!

Cdub

What about crackers?
I've cut down on bread of all types this past few months and feel the better for it. As somebody stated above, I was using needless calories by using bread as a delivery device for everything outside of dinner. Now I use those calories on other good stuff that I can eat stacks of and get the same satisfaction (whole heads of brocolli with the stalk etc)

But what about crackers, if I feel like I need a bread fix I'll have 2/3 crackers instead, loaded with whatever.

Are crackers just bread re-engineered into a small square delivery vehicle??!! My logic is that 2/3 crackers would only equate to 1 slice of bread.

rubadub

Cdub wrote: »

My logic is that 2/3 crackers would only equate to 1 slice of bread.

Regular cream crackers are little different from biscuits. Many people just eat bland food and consider it to be "good" or low in calories, but often they are not, supernoodles are a good example, huge amount of calories.

I eat ryvitas, some have wheat flour, most are rye -hence the name. The sesame ones are really nice, the others do have the "cardboard" reputation. They are very light & airy, I think 4 ryvitas is about the same calories as a single mc-cambridges slice.

saucers82

anyone know where to buy flatbread in Dublin?

(senseless hijacking I know )