Is grammar/spelling going down the drain?

StompToWork

How many of you have read an online news article, or a Tweet or Facebook update from a business/media source/professional-service, which has contained a grammar or spelling mistake?

Do people mainly brush this off, or do you find it unprofessional, distracting and off-putting (as I do)?

Examples I have come across lately include the RTE News App, met.ie (I can almost forgive them today!!), journal.ie, and quite a lot of tweets from local radio stations and newspapers.

Do I need to chill out, or are we, as a society, giving up on grammar? Also bear in mind that my grammar and spelling is by no means perfect, but I kinda expect more from a professional outfit - even if it is providing me with free content!!

StompToWork

And I know, I shouldn't start a sentence with "Also".

StompToWork

And I know - I shouldn't start a sentence with "And".

kneemos

Chill as they say in fact out.

irish bloke

I wish I had your worries...

shopaholic01

Short answer, yes. As for text speak ..........

Arbiter of Good Taste

What's wrong with having standards?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Spelling has never been better, even 15 years ago only a certain percentage of the population wrote words down daily; students, doctors, journalists and that, but now everyone writes sh1t online or whatever.

Femme_Fatale

When it comes to stuff like Boards, I don't really care about most spelling/grammar/punctuation mistakes, so long as the piece of writing is readable. Not everyone has a good grasp of writing and that's fair enough. I think some rules seem silly and irrelevant too - e.g. starting a sentence with "And" or "Also" looks fine IMO. There are plenty of situations where a comma is not necessary, and the split infinitive just seems to be pedantry. Don't think people bother with it any more though.

But I think businesses and the like should proof-read. The thing of not wanting to seem like a grammar nazi is grand to a point (and I'd subscribe to it myself) but there's a line.

dxhound2005

StompToWork wrote: »

How many of you have read an online news article, or a Tweet or Facebook update from a business/media source/professional-service, which has contained a grammar or spelling mistake?

Do people mainly brush this off, or do you find it unprofessional, distracting and off-putting (as I do)?

Examples I have come across lately include the RTE News App, met.ie (I can almost forgive them today!!), journal.ie, and quite a lot of tweets from local radio stations and newspapers.

Do I need to chill out, or are we, as a society, giving up on grammar? Also bear in mind that my grammar and spelling is by no means perfect, but I kinda expect more from a professional outfit - even if it is providing me with free content!!

The comma is on the way out. Get a supply of them in before they become obsolete. You seem to need quite a few.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2014-02-11/edit-page/47201523_1_full-stop-breath-pico-iyer

Cantremember

A forward slash is not a word and grammatically incorrect. It is of course, the only sensible way to piss.

shleedance

itz rediculous rite

fussyonion

It's funny you should start a thread on this as I was only thinking about this very subject today.

I'm seeing a lot of bad grammar/spelling lately, more so than I ever have before, and I wonder if it's becoming an epidemic.

My local newspaper must hire illiterate journalists and reporters because the articles contain atrocious spelling mistakes and bad grammar.

As for Facebook; it annoys me so much. I always feel like saying: "Did you not learn how to use punctuation in school?

Do you realise how stupid you're making yourself look?

Yesterday I read this status update on my Facebook page:

"congratz 2 me sistr on passin her drvn tst i no she has bin waitin along time for it and were al very proud of u well dun sis"

Underneath this abysmal sentence were the ubiquitous responses:

"woop wel dun darlin u must b feelin wel plaesed we must go 4 drnks l8r"

"kul dats great, tel her i sed wel done anal ("and all") and il talk cha later"

Anal? Really? Do you not see what you've done there?
And what the hell is "talk cha"?

Why can't you just attempt to look educated and say "Talk to you"?

I really think it's awful that people either didn't listen in school, or have no respect for themselves that they feel they have to shorten their words and avoid punctuation completely.

Makes me feel you're really thick and skanky.

AerynSun

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

But I think businesses and the like should proof-read. The thing of not wanting to seem like a grammar nazi is grand to a point (and I'd subscribe to it myself) but there's a line.

Grammar nazi is 100% for paid-for print media

detective monkfish

was never great at the aul writing myself but had a few lecturers at college who couldn't spell to save their lives but i suppose its the effort to communicate that counts.

dxhound2005

fussyonion wrote: »

It's funny you should start a thread on this as I was only thinking about this very subject today.

I'm seeing a lot of bad grammar/spelling lately, more so than I ever have before, and I wonder if it's becoming an epidemic.

My local newspaper must hire illiterate journalists and reporters because the articles contain atrocious spelling mistakes and bad grammar.

As for Facebook; it annoys me so much. I always feel like saying: "Did you not learn how to use punctuation in school?

Do you realise how stupid you're making yourself look?

Yesterday I read this status update on my Facebook page:

"congratz 2 me sistr on passin her drvn tst i no she has bin waitin along time for it and were al very proud of u well dun sis"

Underneath this abysmal sentence were the ubiquitous responses:

"woop wel dun darlin u must b feelin wel plaesed we must go 4 drnks l8r"

"kul dats great, tel her i sed wel done anal ("and all") and il talk cha later"

Anal? Really? Do you not see what you've done there?
And what the hell is "talk cha"?

Why can't you just attempt to look educated and say "Talk to you"?

I really think it's awful that people either didn't listen in school, or have no respect for themselves that they feel they have to shorten their words and avoid punctuation completely.

Makes me feel you're really thick and skanky.

Thats txtspk. A new language. Well not really. In the age of morse code, another technology which required brevity, a whole new set of abbreviations were invented to save dots and dashes, thus saving time. In informal exchanges, like amateur radio contacts, the word and became es requiring only four dots to transmit. Cul for see you later and so on are inventions of the morse age not some new fangled abomination to be condemned. Txtspk and real language are not the same thing.

fussyonion

I'd also like to add that it's actually quite hard to try and decipher a sentence which is riddled with spelling errors and above all, no punctuation.

Ficheall

Earlier, I noticed the sig of a poster, in support of Schumacher, which reads:
KEEP FIGHTING MICHAEL.

I found it amusing, but only because it's been a slow day...

kneemos

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

What's wrong with having standards?

Standards are good but grammar Nazi types can be very pedantic and anal,pisses people off rightly.

tallaghtmick

U wot m8?

Legs.Eleven

Typos could also be on the rise.

whatsthetime

StompToWork wrote: »

How many of you have read an online news article, or a Tweet or Facebook update from a business/media source/professional-service, which has contained a grammar or spelling mistake?

Do people mainly brush this off, or do you find it unprofessional, distracting and off-putting (as I do)?

Examples I have come across lately include the RTE News App, met.ie (I can almost forgive them today!!), journal.ie, and quite a lot of tweets from local radio stations and newspapers.

Do I need to chill out, or are we, as a society, giving up on grammar? Also bear in mind that my grammar and spelling is by no means perfect, but I kinda expect more from a professional outfit - even if it is providing me with free content!!

Agree

Femme_Fatale

fussyonion wrote: »

I'd also like to add that it's actually quite hard to try and decipher a sentence which is riddled with spelling errors and above all, no punctuation.

That's what I draw the line at no matter where the piece of writing is. You don't need every comma/full stop/dash (as I said, some commas are superfluous) but for Christ's sake, if a pause is needed, put something in there to show it. Not doing so for an entire paragraph makes it look like the ramblings of a mad person. It's illegible.

returnNull

kneemos wrote: »

Standards are good but grammar Nazi types can be very pedantic and anal,pisses people off rightly.

but if they don't get pulled up on it , they'll pollute the web with bad english!Can't be having that :pac:

dxhound2005

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

That's what I draw the line at no matter where the piece of writing is. You don't need every comma/full stop/dash (as I said, some commas are superfluous) but for Christ's sake, if a pause is needed, put something in there to show it. Not doing so for an entire paragraph makes it look like the ramblings of a mad person. It's illegible.

Not illegible, but unreadable. In the circumstances, I feel I should point that out.

Illegible refers to bad handwriting, while unreadable refers to poor writing.

nomdeboardie

We're on the way to loosing the correct written versions of some words completely...

AerynSun

kneemos wrote: »

Standards are good but grammar Nazi types can be very pedantic and anal,pisses people off rightly.

If I'm paying a LOT of money for a print campaign, I absolutely expect the grammar and spelling in said expensive campaign to be 100% correct. Call me a nazi, but I am paying good money for good quality work.

If I'm not paying for it, then yews kan zpeller whowevers youse like-andi don't giveash1t.

dxhound2005

AerynSun wrote: »

If I'm paying a LOT of money for a print campaign, I absolutely expect the grammar and spelling in said expensive campaign to be 100% correct. Call me a nazi, but I am paying good money for good quality work.

If I'm not paying for it, then yews kan zpeller whowevers youse like-andi don't giveash1t.

Do you not mean ALOT of money.

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ie/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

kneemos

AerynSun wrote: »

If I'm paying a LOT of money for a print campaign, I absolutely expect the grammar and spelling in said expensive campaign to be 100% correct. Call me a nazi, but I am paying good money for good quality work.

If I'm not paying for it, then yews kan zpeller whowevers youse like-andi don't giveash1t.

What's a print campaign?

AerynSun

kneemos wrote: »

What's a print campaign?

It's a thing that you run in the print media. Kinda like stuff you see on the interwebs, but it actually gets printed out with real ink, on real paper, and distributed en masse to the general public (whether they buy the publication or get it for free a la Metro Herald on the morning Dart).

The thought of all of those trees dying, only to have spelling and grammar errors perpetuated through them... brings an unhappy tear to my money-grubbing eye.

The Backwards Man

The odd typo, spelling mistakes or grammar faux pas doesn't really bother me. Nobody is perfect. Professional writers that do this regularly are nothing short of contemptible though, imo.

kneemos

AerynSun wrote: »

It's a thing that you run in the print media. Kinda like stuff you see on the interwebs, but it actually gets printed out with real ink, on real paper, and distributed en masse to the general public (whether they buy the publication or get it for free a la Metro Herald on the morning Dart).

The thought of all of those trees dying, only to have spelling and grammar errors perpetuated through them... brings an unhappy tear to my money-grubbing eye.

A newspaper?
I think it's the smugness that winds people up.

Gordon

People have been complaining about spelling and grammar errors for decades, maybe even centuries. This is most likely because language is evolving, and the very fact that people _don't_ stick rigidly to the rules of current English/language allows our words to change through time, and our punctuation, and even our grammar. Language evolution is constant, you can tell this if you try to read a text from a couple of centuries ago.

Doesn't mean I don't like to stick to the rules and have tidy text, but a good rule of thumb is: you've got to know the rules in order to know which rules to break.

Eeden

nomdeboardie wrote: »

We're on the way to loosing the correct written versions of some words completely...

I used to be completely anal about grammar and spelling mistakes; then I realised that a lot of grammar rules are just stupid, and that as long as you can communicate what you mean, that's all you need.

Some people (for example with dyslexia, etc) just can't do proper spelling. It's not a moral failing or laziness.

Obviously, if you work for a newspaper or similar, you should try to get things right. But rules about things like (for example) splitting infinitives are often a hangover from Latin grammar, which has nothing to do with English grammar.

You will often find that the "correct" versions of some words are relatively recent, and recent "errors" have been used for decades, or even longer.

Getting angry about these things is often just an attempt to promote your own superior education and intelligence. Sometimes there can be a touch of xenophobia about grammar nerds, as well.

AerynSun

kneemos wrote: »

A newspaper?
I think it's the smugness that winds people up.

Newspapers, magazines, posters, banners... anything that involves actual ink on actual paper (or whatever synthetic material is being used). The planet can't afford the assault on the environment for the sake of some poorly-spelled advertisements.

Smug? Meee? Little old me?

AerynSun

Eeden wrote: »

Sometimes there can be a touch of xenophobia about grammar nerds, as well.

Ah, that's true now. I'm African. And I do like to stick it to the European man with my high standard of well-articulated written work!

wil

I think it's very much down to context. On or should that be in an on-line forum, talking (mostly) shyte, it's more informal speak to not overdo the grammering anyway.

If you have a serious point to get across then the legibility factor is more important but you still have to take into account context, choice of word, turn of phrase or emotional impact.

Newspapers and professionals etc., for them writing is a craft, a trade so they should show that. You wouldn't accept a poor paint job on your car, why should they be any different.

I actually find GNNs (those who react to so called GNs) to be equally as pedantic as GNs themselves. It's like they are waiting to be offended.
Just like trolls, IGNORE.

Femme_Fatale

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not illegible, but unreadable. In the circumstances, I feel I should point that out.

Illegible refers to bad handwriting, while unreadable refers to poor writing.

Ah, fuk it! Of all the threads...

shopaholic01

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Ah, fuk it! Of all the threads...

I have to say I'm laughing at all the 'last edited by X' taglines appearing at the end of posts.

*Furiously checks post*:pac:

Monkeybonkers

kneemos wrote: »

Standards are good but grammar Nazi types can be very pedantic and anal,pisses people off rightly.

You could have left out the 'and' in that sentence.

Is that the opposite of being a grammar nazi?

nomdeboardie

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Do you not mean ALOT of money.

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ie/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

:pac::pac::pac:
I couldn't believe this wasn't from "The Oatmeal"...thought TO must have rebranded or been ripped off, but apparently TO's author endorses hyperboleandahalf

Gordon

pedantic and anal

Monkeybonkers wrote: »

You could have left out the 'and' in that sentence.

'pedantic anal'? I imagine that wouldn't be as romantic.

Stavro Mueller

Maybe we just think standards are slipping because we're now getting to see people's spelling/grammar on social media, messages etc. Years ago you'd not have known that your best friend didn't know their there's from their they'res. Or something

None of it explains why the word "of" seems to have replaced "have" though. We need to hunt down the first person who typed this and boil them in oil.

Eeden

cymbaline wrote: »

Maybe we just think standards are slipping because we're now getting to see people's spelling/grammar on social media, messages etc. Years ago you'd not have known that your best friend didn't know their there's from their they'res. Or something

None of it explains why the word "of" seems to have replaced "have" though. We need to hunt down the first person who typed this and boil them in oil.

Standards have been slipping forever! Same as the Youth Of Today are always worse that the Youth Of My Day!

Where will it all end? We won't be able to communicate at all! :eek:

AerynSun

cymbaline wrote: »

None of it explains why the word "of" seems to have replaced "have" though. We need to hunt down the first person who typed this and boil them in oil.

I could of explained it you, if you'd of just axed me. :rolleyes:

Stavro Mueller

Got to be a midlander.... They're really fond of axing their loved ones

TheShizz

Am I right in saying that there was a criminal error on the front page of The Sun newspaper the other day?

The story was about some Irish Islamic extremist who had plotted to kill Prince Harry, but the headline was something like; "Nut's plot Prince Harry murder" or something of that nature. No need for the apostrophe?

wil

The Backwards Man wrote: »

.... Professional writers that do this regularly are nothing short of contemptible though, imo.

Loved that movie "Contemptible Me" just sayin

AerynSun wrote: »

I could of explained it you, if you'd of just axed me. :rolleyes:

well get reddy too be axed:p

AerynSun

TheShizz wrote: »

Am I right in saying that there was a criminal error on the front page of The Sun newspaper the other day?

The story was about some Irish Islamic extremist who had plotted to kill Prince Harry, but the headline was something like; "Nut's plot Prince Harry murder" or something of that nature. No need for the apostrophe?

For shizzle my nizzle, if there was one extremist, then it should have read:
"Nut's plot: Prince Harry murder"
But if there were two or more extremists, then it should have read:
"Nuts plot Prince Harry murder"

But it's The Sun... so...

AerynSun

wil wrote: »

Loved that movie "Contemptible Me" just sayin

well get reddy too be axed:p

I'm sew very touché'd: your axing me early, knot even weighting four Valentines's Day *blusher*

Monkeybonkers

Gordon wrote: »

'pedantic anal'?

Sounds sore! :P

Apparently 'anal' now stands for 'and all'. Still sounds sore :pac: