Redeployment in Post Primary

lemmno

Just wondering if anyone has any experiences/knowledge of how redeployment works in post primary? I've researched but from what I can make of it it seems near impossible to get. Im a permanent secondary school teacher and I want to move from east to west...but am reluctant to give up the cushion of my permanency to do so-any useful insights for me?
Thanks in advance!

RH149

I don't think redeployment is voluntary like that, as in I don't think you get redeployed to where you want to go to. I think its more a case that if your school is over quota and they aren't entitled to have you as teacher of 'Subject X' and there is a school somewhere else that is within quota and needs a teacher of Subject X, you could be redeployed there.....don't think it would be voluntary either.


Not sure how much redeployment actually happens anymore though....anyone I know who is teaching seems to be in a school that's over quota and I haven't heard of anyone being redeployed in a long time.

lemmno

RH149 wrote: »

I don't think redeployment is voluntary like that, as in I don't think you get redeployed to where you want to go to. I think its more a case that if your school is over quota and they aren't entitled to have you as teacher of 'Subject X' and there is a school somewhere else that is within quota and needs a teacher of Subject X, you could be redeployed there.....don't think it would be voluntary either.

Not sure how much redeployment actually happens anymore though....anyone I know who is teaching seems to be in a school that's over quota and I haven't heard of anyone being redeployed in a long time.

So if I want to move west I have to pretty much wait for a job to be advertised, give up my permanency and start all over again really?

new look

Unfortunately yea! I'm in the same boat! Looking to move to the east but have a permanent job elsewhere and was looking into redeployment but found out last week it's not gonna happen in the school. It's if the school is over quota and can show that your not required (i.e. absorbing your subject hours into others' timetables or your subjects are no longer being taught) but another school needs your subjects. It's really unfair and a very hard decision to make. I'm very wary of giving up my permanency but I don't know If I'll have a choice

lemmno

new look wrote: »

Unfortunately yea! I'm in the same boat! Looking to move to the east but have a permanent job elsewhere and was looking into redeployment but found out last week it's not gonna happen in the school. It's if the school is over quota and can show that your not required (i.e. absorbing your subject hours into others' timetables or your subjects are no longer being taught) but another school needs your subjects. It's really unfair and a very hard decision to make. I'm very wary of giving up my permanency but I don't know If I'll have a choice

Its horrible...any chance you're a business teacher in Galway and want to swap with me?

new look

I'm afraid not Pity though! We should set up a job swap service!:)

evolving_doors

teachers put swop ads in the asti newsletter!

teacherhead

Armelodie wrote: »

teachers put swop ads in the asti newsletter!

I have heard of ot happening where two teachers grind each other and get agreement from the BOM subject to interviews several terms and conditions and a review after a year.

ccazza

There is a voluntary redeployment scheme for teachers in Connaught.
http://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Services/Teacher-Allocations-Staffing/Teacher-Allocation/Pilot-Voluntary-Redeployment-Scheme-2014.pdf
Might be of use to some people.

lemmno

I heard about them ads in the Asti newsletter alright but I've not actually seen them yet...but in fairness I skim through it very quickly! There's only so much croke park this and Haddington road that a girl can take! So that redeployment in Connaught thing...those with jobs in Connaught apply for it and then what do those of us in Leinster who want to move to Connaught do-just put ourselves on panel??

galwayhooker

Am in same boat as original poster - lots of other teachers from the west originally in the east in same position.Such a joke that no schools being built in the west compared to the East side of the country.Am lucky to be in a permanent job in the east but am teaching 10 years and any job (which has been literally nothing) that I have applied for in Galway is sewn up for someone already.Just find to get a position in a school in the West it boils down a lit to who you know.

lemmno

galwayhooker wrote: »

Am in same boat as original poster - lots of other teachers from the west originally in the east in same position.Such a joke that no schools being built in the west compared to the East side of the country.Am lucky to be in a permanent job in the east but am teaching 10 years and any job (which has been literally nothing) that I have applied for in Galway is sewn up for someone already.Just find to get a position in a school in the West it boils down a lit to who you know.

I agree with you...although as bad as that is in post primary it seems to be even worse in primary. The amount of primary schools at home that have mother/daughter/cousin/family friends staff is ridiculous.
Everyone wants to live in Galway is the problem...and who can blame them I suppose!

teacherhead

galwayhooker wrote: »

.Such a joke that no schools being built in the west compared to the East side of the country.

i understand your frustration but they cant just build new schools to suit teachers who would like to move back west. There needs to be a population base. Hardly a joke.

gaiscioch

Is there a secondary school redeployment panel established yet? At the moment there are 82 second level jobs advertised on educationposts.ie.

As I understand it, schools must recruit from a panel composed of teachers from over quota and closed schools first before advertising a post.

If there is a panel in place, could these advertisements indicate that there aren't many people on it? I would have thought there is a sufficient number of over quota schools to supply teachers to new posts for a while. A new school in Greystones, Wicklow has no fewer than 17 jobs advertised today. Bearing in mind that the school is fewer than 50km from Dublin (the radius for teachers on the panel) do they have any onus to recruit from it?

Has the voluntary redeployment scheme at second level been set up yet either?

lemmno

Yeah it's pretty strange and something I've often wondered about too.. I know every year teachers I know are told their jobs are subject to panel and in 6 years I've never heard of it happening, nobody ever seems to be on the panel in Leinster.
However I have heard it happen twice in others parts of the country, mayo and Galway.

TheDriver

if you note a lot of those ads are Cork ETB and the new school in greystones and on their forms/info, it does state that the jobs depend on the outcome of redeployment so I wouldn't read anything into it other than places are starting their paperwork to get the ball rolling than leaving it til summer when no one is in the mood to do it.
Redeployment has happened but at this stage, schools have stabilised, especially as there has not been change in ptr last budget.

whiteandlight

Anecdotally there are far more teachers over quote on the western side of the country than the east. I suppose it would make sense since schools around Dublin have been expanding

linguist

The only thing about Dublin is that there is a concentration of fee-paying schools there. It is often not possible to entirely complete the envisaged level of redeployment because of subject combinations and other factors. I know from a colleague of one fee-paying school in Dublin that is due to redeploy two teachers out. However, I think the east/west divide referred to is generally accurate.

It all begs the question: why are post-primary teachers kept so completely in the dark? Look at the INTO website. It updates the situation in primary every couple of weeks. I remember saying this back in 2011, surely the least we are entitled to is to be told the situation.

Inspector Coptoor

It's because of the variables as you said.

A primary teacher can teach any one of 8 years in a primary school and if a class is available, that means a job is available.

The dismantling of jobs in second level into "hours" has made this process virtually impossible

rainbowtrout

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Anecdotally there are far more teachers over quote on the western side of the country than the east. I suppose it would make sense since schools around Dublin have been expanding

Yep, there is a redeployment scheme in Connacht and I think Donegal might be part of it because it makes sense geographically. Last year apparently there were 10 teachers over quota in Co. Sligo. So if positions came up relatively close to them, within Sligo itself, or Mayo, Donegal, Leitrim, Roscommon they were redeployed. Galway too if it suited a teacher to move.

We were all offered the option of applying for redeployment last year and again this year. If one of our teachers is successfully moved, then that position is supposed to be filled by a teacher from an over quota school if the subjects fit.

One of our teachers took voluntarily redeployment last year as she got a position closer to home and we had a teacher compulsorily redeployed in her place.

It makes sense to employ those within the system first but it's not ideal for those that don't want to leave the schools that they are in. It doesn't work on a wide scale either if the subjects don't match. Sligo could have 10 English and history teachers, no good if you have a vacancy for a French teacher.

All of these redeployments will take place before considering applications from Leinster I would imagine. Also as the population is not growing rapidly in the west there isn't a huge swell in numbers in schools.

rainbowtrout

linguist wrote: »

The only thing about Dublin is that there is a concentration of fee-paying schools there. It is often not possible to entirely complete the envisaged level of redeployment because of subject combinations and other factors. I know from a colleague of one fee-paying school in Dublin that is due to redeploy two teachers out. However, I think the east/west divide referred to is generally accurate.

It all begs the question: why are post-primary teachers kept so completely in the dark? Look at the INTO website. It updates the situation in primary every couple of weeks. I remember saying this back in 2011, surely the least we are entitled to is to be told the situation.

Teaching posts are full time in primary school. It's a much simpler process. One teacher for each class. No consideration of subject combinations and how many hours are needed in each subject.

linguist

I think my question was slightly misunderstood. I appreciate the problem in identifying vacancies but there should be no problem in giving us a list of how many overquota teachers are up for redeployment on a county basis. And yes, I know that 50km will cross county boundaries:) There is no effort made to provide reassurance to non-permanent teachers or those seeking employment as to the extent of the process. That and the total lack of progress on a voluntary redeployment scheme and the lip service (which is all we've seen) on the setting up of panels for non-permanent teachers remind us that on redeployment we have given all they've asked for and received nothing of what we've been promised.

Back in 2011, I invited people to post general information on over quota posts they were aware of and roughly where those posts were. There was a good response. For example, I know of two in Dublin: I understand them to be learning support and Irish. If the DES won't help us, we can help ourselves.

One other question: does anyone know (that is have actual experience) of a teacher in their second or subsequent year of an rpt contract losing their job to a redeployed teacher? If so, when and roughly where did it happen? As we know, the unions argue that such teachers have rights to their posts but the DES disagrees so we have this line about not redeploying into 'vacancies which cannot be deemed vacancies by the operation of law' in the relevant circulars. My point here is that this is the kind of fear that makes May a very tough month for non-permanent teachers and yet, personally, I've never actually heard of it happening. I've heard of people being redeployed into career breaks, new vacancies etc. Obviously, depending on the school's allocation and the subjects, there can be trickle down consequences for other staff. But an actual redeployment into an rpt post held by someone with more than a year's service - I actually haven't come across a specific example. When I say that post-primary teachers are kept in appalling ignorance compared to our primary colleagues, that's what I'm talking about. And it's not a lot to expect our unions, the management bodies and the DES to share some facts with us rather than have us living in such uncertainty.

lemmno

Just an idea...I've started a thread chancing my arm to see if anyone would be interested in a job swap. I've not had any bites so far but do you think if we started another one, for everyone to add to could we get some swaps going? It mightn't work for anyone but surely there's people out there who would want a swap? Basically a thread for teachers who are looking for a swap to let us know what county they are in and what subjects, nothing that would give away the poster or school identity

linguist

No problem with that at all, but it doesn't address the redeployment issue in that swapping is a zero sum game. The whole point about redeployment is that it's about controlling the numbers of teachers employed. That's what causes such concern to people who aren't permanent. So the two are separate issues. By all means set up your job swap thread but we could still do with some facts on redeployment. As you say, nothing to identify the poster or the precise name of the school.

evolving_doors

lemmno wrote: »

Just an idea...I've started a thread chancing my arm to see if anyone would be interested in a job swap. I've not had any bites so far but do you think if we started another one, for everyone to add to could we get some swaps going? It mightn't work for anyone but surely there's people out there who would want a swap? Basically a thread for teachers who are looking for a swap to let us know what county they are in and what subjects, nothing that would give away the poster or school identity

Might be worth a try alright, Ill have to pass it up the chain as it might be seen as a form of advertising. Gimmie a bit of time.


Regarding redeployment...I was also wondering could a teacher say no to re deployment on the grounds of it incurring extra expenses. Say if you had to drive/commute as opposed to walking to work every day?

happywithlife

[QUOTE=Armelodie;90241164

Regarding redeployment...I was also wondering could a teacher say no to re deployment on the grounds of it incurring extra expenses. Say if you had to drive/commute as opposed to walking to work every day?[/QUOTE]


I think the limit is somewhere around 53km from your home mark? Stand to be corrected of course.
I do know someone in cork that got redeployed. Her old job was "on the right side of the city" for her regards commuting. The new job was across the city. All in all it added at least an hour onto her commute in the morning and it obviously increased her childminding costs as well - in fact the childminding was a huge issue as the crèche she had been using was no longer feasible and I think she ended up having to employ someone to come into her home. Which in itself then opened another can of worms as she had to register as this persons employer and sort out Prsi etc for them. Total pain in the *****

But as it was within the 53 km limit (or whatever) she hadn't a choice

lemmno

Armelodie wrote: »

Might be worth a try alright, Ill have to pass it up the chain as it might be seen as a form of advertising. Gimmie a bit of time.


Regarding redeployment...I was also wondering could a teacher say no to re deployment on the grounds of it incurring extra expenses. Say if you had to drive/commute as opposed to walking to work every day?

Thanks, let me know!
I think you can say no to redeployment without having to give a reason, but there is a max amount of times that you can refuse it apparently.

rainbowtrout

Armelodie wrote: »

Might be worth a try alright, Ill have to pass it up the chain as it might be seen as a form of advertising. Gimmie a bit of time.


Regarding redeployment...I was also wondering could a teacher say no to re deployment on the grounds of it incurring extra expenses. Say if you had to drive/commute as opposed to walking to work every day?

You can be redeployed within 50km of where you work, as far as I know that measurement is an 'as the crow flies' type of thing. It's also from your place of work, not your home to the best of my knowledge because where you live is not relevant to the Dept of Ed. If you choose to live within walking distance or do a 2 hour commute to work has nothing to do with them.

linguist

Actually, you can nominate either your home or your place of work and it can be any home address. There is nothing to stop somebody teaching in Dublin but originally from Kerry nominating a Kerry address should they wish.

gaiscioch

Is it true there are different redeployment panels at secondary school?

For instance, if you're in a Catholic voluntary school you will not be eligible for redeployment to a VEC in the event of a place being available there? How many redeployment panels are we talking about within the secondary school system? And which redeployment panel has the most schools within it?

linguist

Two things matter: your sector and the 50km radius.

Firstly, they try to redeploy you into a school in your own sector. However, if they can't it goes cross-sectoral and they try to redeploy you into any available post within the radius. The sectors are: voluntary secondary, C&C and ETB.