High Cholesterol

oscar_mike

Is anyone else skeptical of high cholesterol as a dangerous condition? and/or the products that claim to lower it like spreads and yogurt drinks?

ford2600

oscar_mike wrote: »

Is anyone else skeptical of high cholesterol as a dangerous condition? and/or the products that claim to lower it like spreads and yogurt drinks?

What do you mean by high cholesterol?

oscar_mike

elevated blood cholesterol

lorrim

Yes! Have a read of 'The Great Cholesterol Con' - http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/

ford2600

oscar_mike wrote: »

elevated blood cholesterol

After a lot of research and reading this is my tuppence worth. Layman tuppence worth so discard at will

* Cholesterol is essential to life, present in every cell in body and produced by all cells except brain
* Very high concentrations in brain, cicrca 60%
* Approximately 85% of cholesterol is produced by body, 15% ingested.
* As it is present in every cell our bodies store a massive amount of it

So all in all pretty important stuff. It is also a very complicated subject

Cholesterol's chemical formula is C27H46O.

There is no bad or good or total just C27H46O.

Cholesterol is a lipid and like triglycerides is insoluble in blood. It's carried by Lipoproteins, it can't move around on its own. These Lipoproteins vary in size.

The lipoproteins include LDL, HDL, VLDL.

Lipoproteins also carry triglycerides around in blood.

When you get a blood test you normally get a reading of Total cholesterol, which is addition of HDL, LDL and Tri/5.

From my reading TC is a very poor predictor of heart disease, ditto LDL.
From a standard blood test HDL and triglyceride levels are best predictors as in their ratio.

One of the best predictors is not measured; particle count. In a typical blood test the volume of LDL is measured not particle number. Two people with an identical LDL number, say 3.0 might have vastly different numbers of LDL particles; the person with small particles having a higher number of particles than the other person with large buoyant particles but much fewer of them.

The higher the number of particles the greater the risk.

A high sugar diet can lead to excess food energy being partitioned as tricglycerides. These is believe leads to LDL carry a higher ratio of triglycerides to cholesterol. Therefore more particles are required to carry the cholesterol. These particles are typically smaller.

I'm found Dr Thomas Dayspring lipidologist very informative. He is all over youtube

From what I've read statins can be helpful AFTER you've had a cardiac event. Nothing but side effects before that.

September1

Either too low or too high levels are linked to various health issues, but key word is "linked" - for example fever is linked to cold, but bacteria are actual cause of cold. It seems that research on statins would suggest that they worthwhile in many cases where cholesterol is normal, they might be more widely prescribed in future for that reason. Those drinks and yoghurts indeed lower cholesterol, they wouldn't be allowed to advertise it so heavily without clinical trials.

oscar_mike

If cholesterol was normal then why would anyone need statins in the first place???? I've yet to see clinical trials on "cholesterol lowering" spreads and drinks. Do you know any i could look at?

ford2600

oscar_mike wrote: »

If cholesterol was normal then why would anyone need statins in the first place.

There answered your own question

September1

oscar_mike wrote: »

If cholesterol was normal then why would anyone need statins in the first place????

You have first of stop looking at cholesterol in negative way, the fact that it is linked to some diseases does NOT mean it is harmful. It may be for example a way our body responds to real issue.

Thing is that statin reasearch seems to prove it:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12814710
It seems that stains lower risk, even when taken by individuals that have normal cholesterol level but have other risks. This indicates that stains effect on high cholesterol is just side-effect of other curing abilities. Hence if you are in the risk group, it would be beneficial to take them regardless of blood results.

oscar_mike wrote: »

I've yet to see clinical trials on "cholesterol lowering" spreads and drinks. Do you know any i could look at?

Quick google search finds this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/597345
but here is meta analysis which is quite intresting too:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15767233
as it looks at 23 studies on sterols.

It seems that they do have a very consistent track of being success - which I know is unexpected with all the claims we get bombarded.

oscar_mike

Thanks for the links to those studies. I am aware of the potential of sterols from natural sources but those studies do not reflect processed yogurts, drinks and spreads specifically. The reason i remain skeptical is that these processed foods usually contain synthesized nutrients; in this case sterols.

September1

oscar_mike wrote: »

Thanks for the links to those studies. I am aware of the potential of sterols from natural sources but those studies do not reflect processed yogurts, drinks and spreads specifically. The reason i remain skeptical is that these processed foods usually contain synthesized nutrients; in this case sterols.

Actually there are no natural sources of sterols that would have concentration high enough. This Spanish test used enriched yoghurts http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186%2F1472-6882-11-73#page-1

Anyway sterols in this product come from natural sources, as usual synthesizing things artificially is usually more expensive. You can think about it as yoghurt with addition of herbs.

oscar_mike

Fair point but i don't dispute sterols, just the pseudo importance of them (shoved in our faces by advertising) to treat a bogus condition.

runawaybishop

oscar_mike wrote: »

Fair point but i don't dispute sterols, just the pseudo importance of them (shoved in our faces by advertising) to treat a bogus condition.

I read recently that in the US there was talk about stopping the spread companies etc from promoting their products as lowering cholesterol as research indicates its the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 that actually works. Some spreads etc just had high amounts of omega 6, which by itself is insufficient. Cant seem to find where i read it now though.

siochain

Normal or even high Cholesterol = OK
Normal or even high Cholesterol + inflammation = Not OK

Inflammation is a natural defense & healing process triggered by our bodies.
Inflammation in the arteries is caused by a number of factors:
Smoking
trans fats
processed foods with high sugar and wheat consumption.
stress


What a prescription for high cholesterol should look like.
Move - get some exercise every day
Nutrition - eat real foods not crap out of packet
Laugh, have fun and spend time with and doing stuff with people that makes your happy.
Sleep

What prescription in Ireland really looks like.
Statin's

Which results in people still living an unhealthy life and developing other serious aliments such as diabetes and cancer.

September1

siochain wrote: »

What a prescription for high cholesterol should look like.
Move - get some exercise every day
Nutrition - eat real foods not crap out of packet
Laugh, have fun and spend time with and doing stuff with people that makes your happy.
Sleep

What prescription in Ireland really looks like.
Statin's

Which results in people still living an unhealthy life and developing other serious aliments such as diabetes and cancer.

Most of GPs would start with lifestyle change recommendation, I think you experienced some bad cases - no healthy person with first incident of high cholesterol would be put on statins.

siochain

September1 wrote: »

Most of GPs would start with lifestyle change recommendation, I think you experienced some bad cases - no healthy person with first incident of high cholesterol would be put on statins.

Unless the are young GP's otherwise prescription first. Most are glorified pharmacists and are way out of date on the latest medical and general healthily lifestyle developments.

I have a client that went in feeling run down and were offered anti depressants......

oscar_mike

If everyone followed this advice i firmly believe there would be very little diabetes, heart disease, obesity, insulin resistance, hypertension, depression... the list goes on

Martin MacDonald Nutrition

September1 wrote: »

Most of GPs would start with lifestyle change recommendation, I think you experienced some bad cases - no healthy person with first incident of high cholesterol would be put on statins.

Bit of a contradiction there.

"no healthy person"

"you have experienced some bad cases"

At least be consistent in your assumptions and assertions. Unfortunately, siochain is closer to the reality than you are.

September1

Martin MacDonald Nutrition wrote: »

Bit of a contradiction there.

"no healthy person"

"you have experienced some bad cases"

At least be consistent in your assumptions and assertions. Unfortunately, siochain is closer to the reality than you are.

There is no contradiction, if doctor puts healthy person straight to statins on first incident of high LDL - that is bad experience in my opinion. I guess I was not clear.

In some cases people with certain conditions should be put on statins even if their cholesterol is perfect - but in that case we are not talking about health person.

Martin MacDonald Nutrition

September1 wrote: »

There is no contradiction, if doctor puts healthy person straight to statins on first incident of high LDL - that is bad experience in my opinion. I guess I was not clear.

In some cases people with certain conditions should be put on statins even if their cholesterol is perfect - but in that case we are not talking about health person.

You say no healthy person etc would be put on statins. Clearly the poster has seen this happen, which you call a bad experience. However, it completely contradicts your assumption.

The fact is, GPs often offer statins OR a lifestyle change and many lazy patients would rather take a pill than change their diet and exercise. Best practice is to not to offer statins at all initially, but sadly this does not happen as often as it should.

A_Sober_Paddy

Isn't there a boat load of side effects to taking statins?

September1

Martin MacDonald Nutrition wrote: »

The fact is, GPs often offer statins OR a lifestyle change and many lazy patients would rather take a pill than change their diet and exercise. Best practice is to not to offer statins at all initially, but sadly this does not happen as often as it should.

That is ethical, medical professionals should always provide as much information if possible. Withdrawing information on options is terrible idea - now, if people choose statins before even trying lifestyle changes is surprising development.

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Isn't there a boat load of side effects to taking statins?

Yes, but "side-effects" of not taking are more severe. Treatments in 99% are not perfect solution, they are least bad.