Red and Yellow cards

zetecescort

Eddie Keher and now Brian Cody have both called for the removal of cards from hurling. I always thought they were only a visual aid for players and fans to avoid Charlie Redmond type situations.

surely a challenge that deserves a booking or sending off will get it, regardless of whether the ref waves a card.

I'm not having a go at Kilkenny as Corks Patrick Horgan was harshly sent off also last year but are they still sour over the Shefflin sending off.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/2014/0210/503528-cody-calls-for-no-cards-in-hurling/

vermin99

Be hard to implement , should keep the reds for serious situations l, but the physicality is definitely dropping in hurling

vermin99

Be hard to implement , should keep the reds for serious situations l, but the physicality is definitely dropping in hurling

zetecescort

vermin99 wrote: »

Be hard to implement , should keep the reds for serious situations l, but the physicality is definitely dropping in hurling

and would you think the lack of physicality is a good thing? having seen last years championship I'd like it to continue as it is.

keane2097

I don't see what the difference would be if they removed cards, I expect Cody hasn't explained what he means very well here.

Grats

Now before anybody gets overly abusive consider this article ex Irish Examiner -

Five years ago, Glen Rovers’ Christy Ring Jnr’s motion received two-third majority support at Cork’s convention, but was ruled out of order at Congress as the original wording was altered.

As 2015 is a playing rules year, Ring Jnr has confirmed he will again be putting forward the motion, having been buoyed by Kilkenny legend Eddie Keher’s support for the eradication of cards from the game.

Keher recently delivered a document to GAA president Liam O’Neill outlining his opposition to the cards system and proposal to return to the pre-1999 mechanism of tickings and sendings off.

Much in line with Keher’s thinking, Ring Jnr believes cards have contributed to bad judgement calls by referees. He is concerned at how some genuine attempts to play the ball have been upgraded as fouls in the rulebook. Where once a mistimed shoulder charge was a technical offence meriting a free puck, it is now deemed rough play.

He argues a free is a greater penalty in hurling than in football — “This is due to the greater scoring range in hurling and a player is less likely to commit a deliberate foul, notwithstanding the card system.”

Ring Jnr doesn’t believe the rules that currently govern the game reflect it. “The skills of football are not penalised. Nobody would penalise you for kicking or catching the ball. The use of the hurley is an art and it comes down to split second timing. Pulling and doubling of the ball is a skill yet it can be considered a yellow card if it’s late and that’s down to the pressure being put on referees.

“The basic skills of the game have been outlawed. In my opinion, cards were the worst thing that came into Gaelic games.”

Ring Jnr also feels cards, particularly yellow, have held up the free-flowing spectacle of hurling. “The situation is being exploited by players falling down and feigning injury as a method to get frees and opponents booked. The phenomenon is even being adopted by certain teams. This was never part of the culture of Gaelic games.”

RGS

idiotic suggestion if he is suggesting no player deserves to be sent off or booked for foul play. thats a charter for the hatchet man to return to the game.

Is cody worried that the younger teams will have too much speed and skill for his aging team.

denishurley

I'm the same, surely the rules will remain unchanged and it just means that people will be more confused?

vermin99

zetecescort wrote: »

and would you think the lack of physicality is a good thing? having seen last years championship I'd like it to continue as it is.

No , physicality is partand parcel with the game, but its acontact sport and the gaa have gone to town om all these rules.......maybe the cards should remain but a review of the rules should be brought forward

randd1

RGS wrote: »

idiotic suggestion if he is suggesting no player deserves to be sent off or booked for foul play. thats a charter for the hatchet man to return to the game.

Is cody worried that the younger teams will have too much speed and skill for his aging team.

I'd doubt it seeing as most of the Kilkenny panel are in their 20's, with 5/6 players (albeit top quality players) in their 30's.

And I would doubt that a manager of a side that has won 2 out of the last 3 All-Irelands, that are going for 3 leagues in a row and have arguably the strongest panel out there is going to be worried about the age of his team, especially when you consider that the aging team/old legs argument has been bandied around since before the 2009 final against Tipp.

And Kilkenny were never the fastest side anyway, they won their AI's on working harder, good organisation, a strong panel and having more skill and better first touch than anyone else out there. I see nothing that has changed in that regard if they have a fully fit side.

And for all this talk of no young lads coming through like there is in some quarters, Clare may have won 3 AI's from 5 at U21 but its forgotten that Kilkenny were in two of those finals, Kilkenny have a better record of trophy winning at minor than anyone over the past 5/6 years or so, and their school sides have been in the final for the last four years running, winning two.

And players tend to break through onto the Kilkenny side in their mid 20's rather than been drafted straight in like other counties. Keiran Joyce, Tyrrell, Brian Hogan, Michael Fennelly, Michael Rice, didn't get into the side until their mid-20's, while the likes of Richie Hogan, Richie Power, Paul Murphy, Eoin Larkin, TJ Reid and Colin Fennelly didn't become regulars until they were out of U21.

There's plenty of good young hurlers in Kilkenny to keep them challenging for Liam for a good few years yet.

keeponhurling

This is quite shocking, no way to punish lads for dirty play?

It would kill the game, drive lads away.
I know helmets are obligatory now, but a Hurley across the fingers, legs, chest etc. Is very dangerous.

What next, no frees?

To say there is no dirt in the game is incredible. Strange he is saying this after last years championshi where skill levels really came to the fore

lukin

This is typical Cody, he's been banging this drum for years and it's getting boring. He was even saying stuff like this when KK were winning the AI every single year. Now that they haven't won it for one year he has got even worse.
Just because he NEVER gives any frees when he refs KK training matches (fact) he thinks everyone else should follow suit. Listen Brian rules are there to protect players. You don't believe in that but rules are there for everybody, not just for you so shut it and get on with it.

deadybai

I think what he meant was that instead of cards the referee would have full authority. For instance the ref could ask a player to leave the field of play if he is constantly fouling or tries to break somebody legs. There is nothing worse then a player getting sent off for two silly fouls. A red card in hurling changes the game for the worse. I'd no that id rather beat a full strength opponent then one with a man down.

Kkid

Have to admit a lot of people have jumped on Cody from reading or listening to a small part of the interview.
Cody pointed out that the speed and toughness is going from the game because of Yellow cards being handed out for very little these days.

I personally watched the 2009, 2011 and 2012 games vs Tipp over the past week and the difference in how the games were refereed is a disgrace. Lads being booked for tapping a players hand (not pulling or taking a swipe), this happens SO often and only on referee calls it it frustrates and causes friction. This only causes more issues in the long run for the referee panels etc. By dismissing cards it allows referees to use their discretion. Did McGrath have to send off Horgan or Kelly have to send off shefflin. If they were able to use more discretion these mistakes would be reduced is Cody’s idea.

The_Kew_Tour

So you can break a guys ribs and legs and not get sent off?

ok.....

Kkid

No! Did you read what I wrote, use discretion. A Player does not need to be booked for silly tackles that are mistimed if not dangerous. He's advocating that players will be allowed to get away with GBH, simply saying that football and Hurling are completely different and that its rare players get injured in Hurling, that said the worst injury to come in an intercounty match over the past few years was vs Tipp when Padraic Maher stayed on the pitch for a wild tackle....

Backup that point now Kew Tour?

The_Kew_Tour

Kkid wrote: »

No! Did you read what I wrote, use discretion. A Player does not need to be booked for silly tackles that are mistimed if not dangerous. He's advocating that players will be allowed to get away with GBH, simply saying that football and Hurling are completely different and that its rare players get injured in Hurling, that said the worst injury to come in an intercounty match over the past few years was vs Tipp when Padraic Maher stayed on the pitch for a wild tackle....

Backup that point now Kew Tour?

I didnt read what you wrote cause I wasnt ****ing replying to you in first place

Kkid

Apologies

adrian522

My God, wish people would read what is being suggested rather than jumping on their various bandwagons.

Players still got their names taken and still got sent off before the invention of yellow and red cards.

hurling_lad

Kkid wrote: »

Have to admit a lot of people have jumped on Cody from reading or listening to a small part of the interview.
Cody pointed out that the speed and toughness is going from the game because of Yellow cards being handed out for very little these days.

I personally watched the 2009, 2011 and 2012 games vs Tipp over the past week and the difference in how the games were refereed is a disgrace. Lads being booked for tapping a players hand (not pulling or taking a swipe), this happens SO often and only on referee calls it it frustrates and causes friction. This only causes more issues in the long run for the referee panels etc. By dismissing cards it allows referees to use their discretion. Did McGrath have to send off Horgan or Kelly have to send off shefflin. If they were able to use more discretion these mistakes would be reduced is Cody’s idea.

What does hand-tapping add to the game of hurling either as a spectacle or as a game to play? Why should it be tolerated?

The case of the Shefflin yellow-card being rescinded was one of the most laughable episodes in GAA administration circles in the last few years. It was done for purely theatrical reasons.

Kkid

hurling_lad, it doesn't add to the game but as an example to see that happening in a game and its a yellow card and to see the same referee lets go a blatant foul by Shane O'Neill just causes aggrevation. We all know that a swing across the hand is illegal and can hurt a player but a tap on the hand is nothing compared to what goes on during some other games. Its the silly yellows that I find frustrating more than others, and if a referee was allowed use his discretion more players would respect the referee than if he flashed a yellow at any little incident.

It was laughable I'll wholeheartedly agree with you, but not as laughable as the fact that the 2 yellows were given in the 1st place.

Concannon7

So players would still get a warning and could be still sent off. It would basically be the same thing except no cards would be waved in the air. I don't see the point of changing it as is. The cards or not the problem, if anything the GAA need to tighten up the rule book on what is or is not a foul. That would be a more of a help.

fearruanua

I just get what the big hullabaloo is about. Players always got booked and sent off. The cards just represent a booking or a sending off. What difference would it make

Kkid

Yes Galway_mad_bhoy it would still result in warnings and sendings off, but the issue is that some rules are too clearly defined. As an example, do you think Pat Horgan’s “tackle” was a red. If you do you are aying that any player who touches an opponents helmet should be sent off, correct?
If you say no you believe that an accidental tap is different that a player pulling on a helmet (ala Benny Dunne). You are saying that common sense should be shown, correct?

Now if cards are not in place James McGrath can look at that and say okay I’ve been told I can use discretion, he tapped his helmet with no intent, I can warn hime and basically say “okay this is your last chance one more bad foul and you are gone.

The abolision of cards would serve as a chance for referees to use that common sense and sense of knowledge they’ve built from years of watching, refereeing and playing the beautiful game.

hurling_lad

Kkid wrote: »

hurling_lad, it doesn't add to the game but as an example to see that happening in a game and its a yellow card and to see the same referee lets go a blatant foul by Shane O'Neill just causes aggrevation. We all know that a swing across the hand is illegal and can hurt a player but a tap on the hand is nothing compared to what goes on during some other games. Its the silly yellows that I find frustrating more than others, and if a referee was allowed use his discretion more players would respect the referee than if he flashed a yellow at any little incident.

It was laughable I'll wholeheartedly agree with you, but not as laughable as the fact that the 2 yellows were given in the 1st place.

The best way to stop players from getting yellow cards for hand-tapping is for players to stop doing it and yellow cards can only encourage this. Like you said, it adds nothing to the game.

A referee giving a yellow card for an offence he does see has nothing whatsoever to do with a referee not giving a red card for an offence which he doesn't see. I'd fully agree that O'Neill got off lightly for the incident to which you're referring, but two (unrelated) wrongs don't make a right.

Don't forget that only one of Shefflin's yellows (crucially imo, the first one) was rescinded, so they weren't both laughable.

cnoc

RGS wrote: »

idiotic suggestion if he is suggesting no player deserves to be sent off or booked for foul play. thats a charter for the hatchet man to return to the game.

Is cody worried that the younger teams will have too much speed and skill for his aging team.

---

B. Cody probably realizes that KK cannot cope with the wonderful type of open, fast hurling in last year's championship. He wants and expects KK to win their matches by physicality alone.

Kkid

Its my opinion that none of the reds in question, Shefflin, O’Dwyer or Horgans tackles should have resulted in yellow cards. Yellow cards are over complicated and by removing the yellow and red cards referees common sense can be used. Tapping a player on the hand goes unpunished by every referee bar one, why? Do you really think it takes from the game aat all, I would argue it does when this referee blows up and wastes time booking an opponent for something so miniscule.

Kkid

cnoc - so there was no Physicality in the all Ireland final? Physicality is in every game, its being reduced by men who don’t know the game. I spoke to a former limerick great recently who said “They’ll turn the game into a non contact sport soon if we are not careful.
There is plenty of Physicality but dirt and physicality is different and every real hurling fan knows the difference.

hurling_lad

Kkid wrote: »

Its my opinion that none of the reds in question, Shefflin, O’Dwyer or Horgans tackles should have resulted in yellow cards. Yellow cards are over complicated and by removing the yellow and red cards referees common sense can be used. Tapping a player on the hand goes unpunished by every referee bar one, why? Do you really think it takes from the game aat all, I would argue it does when this referee blows up and wastes time booking an opponent for something so miniscule.

I certainly would argue that it takes from the game (it's about as sneaky a foul as they come) and perhaps if more referees actually applied the rules, then we wouldn't see it anymore.

keane2097

Kkid wrote: »

Cody pointed out that the speed and toughness is going from the game because of Yellow cards being handed out for very little these days.

Are the speed and toughness really going out of the game? I must have imagine watching the most exhilarating Championship of my lifetime last year.

cnoc

Kkid wrote: »

cnoc - so there was no Physicality in the all Ireland final? Physicality is in every game, its being reduced by men who don’t know the game. I spoke to a former limerick great recently who said “They’ll turn the game into a non contact sport soon if we are not careful.
There is plenty of Physicality but dirt and physicality is different and every real hurling fan knows the difference.

I am well aware that physicality is part and parcel of the game. What I did say in my earlier post re physicality was that KK would expect by physicality alone.