Marco Pantani (RIP) - 10th anniversary on Friday

letape

Its hard to believe it but this Friday (February 14th) is the 10th anniversary of Il Pirata's death.

Cyclingnews will have several look articles this week to commerate the anniversary.

The first one is here:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/marco-pantani-a-valentines-day-to-remember

killalanerr

despite his untimely death the fact remains that he was a cheat thats what i will remember about him

Morrisseeee

Is it OK to admire Pantani but reject Armstrong ? ! :pac:

letape

killalanerr wrote: »

despite his untimely death the fact remains that did was a cheat thats what i will remember about him

I think there is a lot more to remember about a person, than whether they cheated / took drugs or not!

Certainly for me who grew up watching him race, there is a lot more to his memory than this.

daragh_

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeYY9s6X7yY

RobFowl

I hope his tortured soul is at peace.
He should be the same age as me now not rotting in the ground.

daragh_

That's supposed to be a link to 'Rimini' by Les Wampas, which is a homage to Pantani. Link is down. You can find it on Google.

Lumen

I find that my strong disapproval of a person's behaviour tends to ebb away once they're dead.

Come on Lance, let it go. Walk in to the light.

Harrybelafonte

http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/09/20/pantani-was-not-alone-in-his-death-room/

killalanerr

i to watched him fly up the cols but now we know it was all a lie . A tortured soul indeed RIP Marco

12 sprocket

Lumen wrote: »

I find that my strong disapproval of a person's behaviour tends to ebb away once they're dead.

Come on Lance, let it go. Walk in to the light.

Must be great to be perfect

happytramp

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Is it OK to admire Pantani but reject Armstrong ? ! :pac:

Not really. But it's a lot easier to hate lance for being an utter prick.

doozerie

killalanerr wrote: »

despite his untimely death the fact remains that did was a cheat thats what i will remember about him

I can certainly understand that, and I must admit that my admiration for Pantani struggles against the side of me that finds cheating despicable. But Armstrong reset/re-educated my definition of "cheater".

Pantani cheated and lied about it, as have many other riders, and the very sad circumstances of his death don't wipe that away. Armstrong cheated, lied about it, bullied and threatened everyone around him to maintain that lie, and still expects the world to worship him as some kind of sporting hero despite the lie being exposed. In that context I'm much more inclined to see Pantani as victim of, as well as contributor to, the wider problems of cycling - I feel sympathy for him, an emotion that simply does not apply when I think of the likes of Armstrong.

Inquitus

1998 Tour de France Stage 15 into Les Deux Alpes, that's why I admire the Pirate, even if he did dope.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=123Xo9mFqeE

lizzylad84

I think its slightly unfair to compare pantani to the texan imo, i mean the level of doping armstrong was involved in is wayyy more than pantani.
watching dvds and youtube clips of pantani in his prime is simply amazing....

Did he dope? probably
Controversial? yup!
flawed...arnt we all
Entertaining? yup!

Legend in my book.
R.I.P

Lumen

12 sprocket wrote: »

Must be great to be perfect

Coming from someone who espouses "East German training methods" without any obvious sense of irony, that means a lot.

shutup

killalanerr wrote: »

despite his untimely death the fact remains that he was a cheat thats what i will remember about him

Do you watch any other sports? I've got some bad news for you.

nerraw1111

I used to be a huge fan of his. But the idea of posting videos of his performances now is ridiculous. I cringe at them.

Not sure what his legacy is, he's still a hero to many.

letape

One thing about Pantani was that he was a winner at the very highest level as soon as turned pro and before. He was second in the 94 Giro and won two stage and then went on to finish third in the Tour and take home the white jersey. In 95 he again won the white jersey at the Tour and won two back to back mountain stages. Very few riders have such a good first Tour.

It is very hard to imagine that in a world without doping that he wouldn't have been as successful. Especially when you consider who he was competing against - Indurain, Zuelle, Ullrich, Riis, Jalabert, Virenque, Chiappucci, Urgumov, Berzin...

I also think its unrealistic to expect that he would have come clean and admitted to doping. He died in 2004 the year after he retired. Its only recently that people have started to confess and very few who doped in that era have come clean. Stuey O'Grady who won a stage in 98 and wore yellow only "confessed" last year. None of the Irish pros of the era have ever addressed their past.

I'm not trying to make excuses for Pantani but it was a different era and we hope attitudes are different now. But then you think that his manager (Giuseppe Martinelli) is now managing Astana Nibali and Riis is still managing Tinkoff and you wonder how much things have really changed.

Of course the videos of that era aren't the same to watch anymore because ultimately we will never know or understand what we are watching.

SomeFool

What has happened has happened, what a guy to watch, incredible climber - temple hill in cork for me on Friday, can't think of a better spot locally to tip my cap.

AstraMonti

killalanerr wrote: »

despite his untimely death the fact remains that he was a cheat thats what i will remember about him

Do you hold the same opinion for Sean Kelly then?

Morrisseeee

SomeFool wrote: »

- temple hill in cork for me on Friday, can't think of a better spot locally to tip my cap.

Temple Hill :eek:, ye mad fool :pac:, well you'll certainly be 'out of the saddle' just like Pantani

I don't think any other climber attacked and had the same style as Pantani, out of the saddle and in big gears, grinding his way up the cols, unrelenting.

How much of his performances were fueled by illegal means, we'll never know, but I suppose because he was such a different character to the Texan that he occupies a different place in people's minds/thoughts/hearts.

He was a monster in the mountains and a lamb in the media and the fact that he died on Valentine's Day...........alone(?!)..............says it all really.

death1234567

Morrisseeee wrote: »

How much of his performances were fueled by illegal means, we'll never know

I think we do know, all of them.

I used to love watching Pantani but when he won the giro/tour that was the dealbreaker. He was a great climber but to see him holding his own in a timetrial was laughable. It's a shame he cycled at a time when you had to be on drugs, maybe if he was around now things would have been different.

SWL

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Temple Hill :eek:, ye mad fool :pac:, well you'll certainly be 'out of the saddle' just like Pantani

I don't think any other climber attacked and had the same style as Pantani, out of the saddle and in big gears, grinding his way up the cols, unrelenting.

How much of his performances were fueled by illegal means, we'll never know, but I suppose because he was such a different character to the Texan that he occupies a different place in people's minds/thoughts/hearts.

He was a monster in the mountains and a lamb in the media and the fact that he died on Valentine's Day...........alone(?!)..............says it all really.

He was and he wasn't - Pantani was a bit of an odd guy, didn't bully and intimidate people like the Texan, but was very odd and not in an in nice way

robs1

Its unfortunate that all the memories of watching cycling in the 90s onward are now really flawed. everyone loved watching guys attack up mountains and it made the sport amazing. but to respect pantani just because he was a nice cheat is crazy. just like Armstrong he cheated clean riders from winning. just because he wasn't a dickhead should not let him get away being called a flawed genius. he cheated like the rest

nerraw1111

letape wrote: »

I'm not trying to make excuses for Pantani but it was a different era and we hope attitudes are different now. But then you think that his manager (Giuseppe Martinelli) is now managing Astana Nibali and Riis is still managing Tinkoff and you wonder how much things have really changed.

Of course the videos of that era aren't the same to watch anymore because ultimately we will never know or understand what we are watching.

We all understand and know exactly what we're watching. There's no doubt. Those amazing breaks? Doping. Those heroic uphill attacks? Doping.

I cheered him like everyone else, loved his style. But I don't understand how anyone can say he was a good cyclist before he doped or claim that we don't know what we were watching when he stood on his pedals and cycled into the distance. Or it was a different era. It was arguably the dirtiest era in cycling. Almost destroyed the tour. That's Pantani.

There are those who still celebrate him, statues on the mountains etc, presumably on the basis that everyone else was doping and of those, he was fearless and exciting, willing to blow up rather than sit on the wheel. I can understand that to a degree.

ThisRegard

letape wrote: »

Certainly for me who grew up watching him race, there is a lot more to his memory than this.

But everything about watching him race was fraudulent ?!?

SWL

nerraw1111 wrote: »

We all understand and know exactly what we're watching. There's no doubt. Those amazing breaks? Doping. Those heroic uphill attacks? Doping.

I cheered him like everyone else, loved his style. But I don't understand how anyone can say he was a good cyclist before he doped or claim that we don't know what we were watching when he stood on his pedals and cycled into the distance. Or it was a different era. It was arguably the dirtiest era in cycling. Almost destroyed the tour. That's Pantani.

There are those who still celebrate him, statues on the mountains etc, presumably on the basis that everyone else was doping and of those, he was fearless and exciting, willing to blow up rather than sit on the wheel. I can understand that to a degree.

Good point in bold - but it can be argued, many of the cyclists in the pro ranks, are at the apex or close to it of human development, add vector doping and you get the performances of the 1990s - but that is the killer we will never know, was Ullrich the best of his generation again we will never know

Slo_Rida

nerraw1111 wrote: »

presumably on the basis that everyone else was doping and of those, he was fearless and exciting, willing to blow up rather than sit on the wheel. I can understand that to a degree.

Sure that can be said for Lance too. Yes he was prick/dick and everything else people call him on here but he was entertaining and fearless too. So the videos of Lance, Jan, Marco Bjarne are all the same, great craic to watch.
As a relative newcomer to the sport, I fell there are a lot of high horses among cycling fans.

Slo_Rida

AstraMonti wrote: »

Do you hold the same opinion for Sean Kelly then?

Controversial

ThisRegard

Slo_Rida wrote: »

As a relative newcomer to the sport, I fell there are a lot of high horses among cycling fans.

Well as a newcomer you obviously didn't spend years following, watching and admiring cyclists only for it to turn out they were all cheats. Nothing to do with being on a high horse for gods sake.