Series catching up with books. What then?*READERS ONLY.POSSIBLE SPOILERS*

TheIrishGrover

OK, so season 4 is starting in a couple of months, finishing off book three. When they announced that they were splitting book 3 into season 3 & 4 most of us thought it was a good idea (I did anyway. WAY too much happening for one 10-part season).

However this time next year they are going to be starting on A feast of Crows. Assuming that the producers are going to merge the books, they will also be working on A Dance with Dragons. However, I don't think there's enough in these two books to let them split each into two and thus giving them four seasons. To be honest, I think they could easily just have them as two seasons, maybe three seasons (There is some great stuff there, Tyrion's boat trip, Connington etc) Giving them Season 5, 6 and 7 and getting them to 2017. Then what? Even if Martin has released Winds of Winter by then (50 50) that still gives them one, maybe two more years.

I know Martin has said that the producers know what's going to happen in the end but here's the thing: Will the next books come AFTER the seasons? Will people be interested in reading them if they do? Will it be a case of the show dictating the books at that stage? I even think I read somewhere that HBO only wanted 7-8 seasons max anyway. That, after that, audience interest and numbers tend to wane.

What do you think? Is there enough in Crows/Dragons to make four seasons? Will people lose interest in Dany's politicking, Sam's eternal-misery journey, Cercie's improbable fall from grace, The Viking Iron Islands scuabbling, Tyrion's Dwarf-love? All of which (IMHO) could be seriously trimmed. Will viewers/non-readers lose interest if they leave these in in order to pad out four seasons? Sure they end on a high and low (Dany/Jon) but will non-readers have left by then? Will the series continue ahead of the (possibly never coming) books?

Turtyturd

I think you could get three seasons out of the remaining books at most , by which stage the next book really should be out (I know). That would probably give them another two seasons worth for the show but there is little chance of Martin having the series completed by then. The Wire and The Sopranos have shown though that HBO don't work on a season per year schedule so they could wait until he finishes and I think a joint book/final series' release is too much publicity to pass up.

The other main option is that HBO go off the ending they have been given which could affect viewer numbers as some fans may want to read the ending after investing so much time in reading the books.

I think the reception to this could also influence the books....causing Martin to take a decade to rewrite the book with a 'true' ending due to fans reactions.

TheIrishGrover

Turtyturd wrote: »

......they could wait until he finishes and I think a joint book/final series' release is too much publicity to pass up.

This would be a fantastic publicity opportunity but apparently he's already said there's going to be at least an eighth book. (I would imagine that all the characters will be in their required places by end of WoW. That will give him two books for the invasion of Westeros and the actual War of The Walkers (tm)[/QUOTE]

I think the reception to this could also influence the books....causing Martin to take a decade to rewrite the book with a 'true' ending due to fans reactions.

TBH, I don't think Martin gives a flying f*ck what fans do or don't want (And that's the way it should be. They're his books and the day he starts bowing to fan pressure is the day they become some safe, generic fantasy books (Book 9, chapter 1: Ned awoke. The wizards had done a great job reanimating him. Now he and his also-reanimated, ninja son Rob are going to have some fun. The Lannisters aren't the only ones who repay their debts)

Mickeroo

I don't really mind if the if the show overtakes the books. Will be nice to not know what's coming anymore, plus I fully expect the tv version of AFFC and ADWD to be better than the books.

fitz

Can't see AFFC and ADWD taking more than two seasons to get through.
There's an awful lot in them that just won't make good tv, so I reckon the current books will only bring us to 2016.
I suspect WOW will be out later this year or early next year, which would bring us to 2017 at the earliest before there's an issue over whether the next book is done. I know it's GRRM, but I half expect the book 7 (and 8 now?) to not take him that long. They're likely to be relatively action packed, so he hopefully won't get wound up in plot minutiae.

Daith

Would they even risk a season to focus on Robert's Rebellion and the history of Westeros?

fitz

Daith wrote: »

Would they even risk a season to do focus on Robert's Rebellion and the history of Westeros?

Can't see it happening.
Maybe a one off feature length special, but highly unlikely.

Mr Freeze

I'd say 2 seasons max to show the events of Feast and Dance.

A lot of Feast will be just glossed over I would say, and loads of characters merged.

Like the show has already spoiled some things for us book readers, like all the people that believed Jean Westerling could be carrying Robb's heir and has been swapped with someone pretending to be her or could be rescued by BwB on the road after Jaime letting her go, sure I doubt she will even appear in the books again now after Tulisa's demise in the show effectively saying, ya Jean, not important.

December2012

On a re read I realised there's actually a lot to fill two seasons in feast-dance, plus you can tell already from the trailer for season 4 that there are deviations from the books - ie Brienne, Bronn.

chickenboy

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

This would be a fantastic publicity opportunity but apparently he's already said there's going to be at least an eighth book. (I would imagine that all the characters will be in their required places by end of WoW. That will give him two books for the invasion of Westeros and the actual War of The Walkers (tm)

Source on the information on the eight book? Its news to me, i thought it was just winds of winter and dreams of spring.

Personally, I don't think it's the end of the world if the series catches up with the books. The tv show can do the big picture, then the books will come out to fill in all the little details, like how many lamprey pies were eaten at the coronation of Jon / Dany / Stannis / Hodor.

Sleepy

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Like the show has already spoiled some things for us book readers, like all the people that believed Jean Westerling could be carrying Robb's heir and has been swapped with someone pretending to be her or could be rescued by BwB on the road after Jaime letting her go, sure I doubt she will even appear in the books again now after Tulisa's demise in the show effectively saying, ya Jean, not important.

So unimportant you forgot her name! (It's Jeyne)

Besides, her mother admitted to having dosed her with moon tea so those looking for Rob's heir to appear were always chasing shadows. Far more likely for Rob's letter legitimising Jon to factor into the King of the North thing (though even then, Bran and Rickon's respective claims would supercede his as legitimised bastards come after any true born sons in Westerosi lines of succession.

Thargor

December2012 wrote: »

On a re read I realised there's actually a lot to fill two seasons in feast-dance, plus you can tell already from the trailer for season 4 that there are deviations from the books - ie Brienne, Bronn.

Whats the Brienne/Bronn deviation?

December2012

ronn appears to be sparring with Jamie (possibly taking the Ilyn Payne role) and Brienne appears with Margery.

Thargor

Interesting, thanks.

Antar Bolaeisk

So apparently the show runners know how it all ends and are planning for a 7-8 season run (source).

I think that's my cue to stop watching this show as, having invested so much time in the books and characters, I really don't want to be spoiled by the TV show.

With a finite(ish) number now put on the seasons it's probably fair to infer the following:

Season 4 (2014): Remainder of A Clash of Kings merging into the beginning of A Feast for Crows
Season 5 (2015): A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons
Season 6 (2016): The Winds of Winter
Season 7 PT I (2017): A Dream of Spring
Season 7 PT II (2018): A Dream of Spring (Because splitting final seasons into two is all the rage these days).

The publisher has come out and said we almost certainly won't be seeing The Winds of Winter before 2015 and I can't see the final book being complete within 2-3 years after that.

Thargor

Unless he's writing them at the same time Dream of Spring is years away, 5-7 years wouldnt surprise me.

Son0vagun

GRRM also announced today that he has another ASOIAF novella on a short stories collection due out during the summer.

Where does he get time to do everything? Surely TWoW takes priority.

Washington Irving

You know when you're supposed to do something but you end up doing everything except that one thing you were supposed to do?

I fear it has happened to George on a grander scale.

Witcher

He probably doesn't spend a lot of time throwing them together, probably has the bones of these novellas in his notes and his head as background info and he just puts it all together and ships it out.

If the show didn't exist I'd tell him to work at his own pace but it does and if he doesn't hurry the roles will be reversed and the show people will spoil the sh1t out of the story in revenge:pac:

Mr.Prodston

There's no way they'd film and show what will be in the last book before it's written or released....right? :eek:

7 seasons seems very short! I'd reasonably expect/like to think we'll have book 6 in the 2015 calendar year, I mean he must have it all written by now give or take.

Antar Bolaeisk

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

There's no way they'd film and show what will be in the last book before it's written or released....right? :eek:

7 seasons seems very short! I'd reasonably expect/like to think we'll have book 6 in the 2015 calendar year, I mean he must have it all written by now give or take.

Last quote was about 400 words written of a potential 1500-1800 word, of which 200 are final.

So, a chapter

In fairness, that was a while ago so he's probably nearing 500 words at this stage.

TimeToShine

I've invested far too much time into these books to have the ending effectively spoiled by the show. On principle I should really stop watching but that's a lot easier said than done and truth be told I doubt I'd be able to resist when the time comes.

If the show does finish before the books (which I think is inevitable) then it really is on GRRM. The series has a huge cult following who have stuck by him from the beginning and quite frankly he should be ashamed that he let things get so bad. I wouldn't mind that much if he was busy doing promos or even living life but hes just writing other, albeit entertaining, less interesting books that are just a mere supplement to the real thing. If what I read above is correct there's another novella due out in the summer, valuable time that could have been spent on the book we actually want, rather than those that are used to pass the time.

Sleepy

I'll be honest, there's no way I could stop watching the series if it overtakes the books. Even if you chose not to watch it, you'd end up seeing/hearing spoilers.

I'd see the series more likely to go as follows, bearing in mind that the mid section of any series tends to be the slowest moving and the last book in ASOIAF seems set to be the war with the others. I'd expect TWOW early next year which would leave GRRM roughly 3 years to complete ADOS assuming he can finish it in 2 books (which seems unlikely to me).

Season 4 (2014): Remainder of A Clash of Kings merging into the beginning of A Feast for Crows
Season 5 (2015): A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons
Season 6 (2016): A Dance with Dragons
Season 7 (2017): The Winds of Winter
Season 8 (2018): A Dream of Spring

Then again, it wouldn't surprise me too much if HBO took a year off to let the writing finish or to film a spin-off prequel series (as done by Spartacus in the past).

Daith

TimeToShine wrote: »

If the show does finish before the books (which I think is inevitable) then it really is on GRRM. The series has a huge cult following who have stuck by him from the beginning and quite frankly he should be ashamed that he let things get so bad. I wouldn't mind that much if he was busy doing promos or even living life but hes just writing other, albeit entertaining, less interesting books that are just a mere supplement to the real thing. If what I read above is correct there's another novella due out in the summer, valuable time that could have been spent on the book we actually want, rather than those that are used to pass the time.

What's that phrase...he doesn't owe you anything.

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

TimeToShine

Daith wrote: »

What's that phrase...he doesn't owe you anything.

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

Don't get me wrong I don't disagree with you at all. I said he should be ashamed of himself, I wasn't trying to make it out that the fans are the victims here and if so I take it back. This is his story, something he's been cultivating for the best part of 20 years, and it's most likely going to have its climax spoiled on a stage that in my opinion just doesn't do it justice. I love the show as much as the next person but I personally only see them as a compliment to the books.

This is just my opinion, I'm sure there are plenty of people who want to see the ending on TV with everyone else and the pick up the pieces using the books, I'm just not one of them.

Liam O

I can't stand the show, every episode is just like a summary of what happened in the subsequent part of the book by someone with a bad memory. Once I read the Red Wedding I started watching the show just to see that really and tbh, it wasn't the best adaptation. The whole 3rd season I was thinking that at least the red wedding will save it but I didn't feel it, too contrived. I'm sure I'll be similar this time around with the Red Viper and some other things.

Thargor

Entertaining but its definitely not the masterpiece everyone makes it out to be, I thought the same about Breaking Bad.

Not a hope in hell Im going to spoil the books with the tv series whatever happens, the show at its best cant touch the novels at their worst.

5starpool

The problem with the TV show taking longer than 7/8 seasons is that someone like Arya will be 20 nearly by the time the show finishes. I know the casting in the series was generally a few years older than in the books deliberately, but it'll lose some impact if we have another adult assassin in Arya, or Bran becomes a strapping 18 year old for the final season.

GhostInTheRuins

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Last quote was about 400 words written of a potential 1500-1800 word, of which 200 are final.

So, a chapter

In fairness, that was a while ago so he's probably nearing 500 words at this stage.

Damn I really hope he has more than 500 words written, seeing as dance with dragons has something like 400,000 words he has a serious amount still to do :pac:

Witcher

It was 400 pages not words.

Duckworth_Luas

Blay wrote: »

It was 400 pages not words.

Words are wind

Antar Bolaeisk

Blay wrote: »

It was 400 pages not words.

They're very big words.