vat on amazon orders

NeptunesMoon

I ordered a few things and see amazon charge 23% vat to irish deliveries. does this mean you can claim this back? I do my book keeping through a spreadsheet and have foreign and irish purchases kept separate, where shoes I put this if the amount is in sterling but the vat is 23% the irish rate?

do i need to do anything else like contact amazon for any reason? can i just claim that 23% back like anything else i buy in IRE or should it be done separately because it's gbp?

cheers

OU812

Register your vat number on your profile. They remove the VAT

Bigcheeze

Yes you can claim the Irish vat on your vat3. The invoice from amazon should include a euro value for tax purposes, I.e. The value amazon are declaring to revenue.

NeptunesMoon

cheers for the replies. just noticed I can input the vat number now, but i also see it says it will be applied to all orders. im not sure I want this as most of my amazon orders aren't for business use.

going back through my orders, on the printable order summary it says "this is not a vat invoice" and their is no euro amount and i think aib charge MORE than the euro amount anyway if its paid in GBP the pending transaction is always less than the final amount debited as i think they add fees for the non euro payment

just not sure how to keep track of it all on my spreadsheet, at the moment i just put it down in the foreign section with 23% vat mentioned beside it but then I dont claim this on my return, so no i guess i could move it to the irish section and claim the amount and just put in that its 23% of the final debited amount even if the receipt just shows a GBP amount?

Bigcheeze

How to get vat invoice http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=201238260


The method of using the Bank statement total to calculate vat is not correct as you'll be asking revenue to share part of the currency and bank transaction costs. Amazon will have remitted a euro amount to revenue, this is the amount you can claim and should be on the vat invoice.

Sounds like you should have two amazon accounts to make this more simple.

Howjoe1

OU812 wrote: »

Register your vat number on your profile. They remove the VAT

Don't think this is right. It would apply only if UK VAT was being charged.

The fact that they are charging Irish VAT, means they are registered for VAT in Ireland, probably obliged to register here under the distance sales rules.

You don't need to therefore give them your VAT number. If the Irish VAT they are charging you on the invoice relates to a purchase of items for business purposed you can just claim the VAT back on your VAT 3 return (assuming you are not engaged in a VAT exempt business).

And request a valid VAT invoice from them to support your claim per VAT3 return.

Bigcheeze

Howjoe1 wrote: »

Don't think this is right. It would apply only if UK VAT was being charged.

The fact that they are charging Irish VAT, means they are registered for VAT in Ireland, probably obliged to register here under the distance sales rules.

You don't need to therefore give them your VAT number. If the Irish VAT they are charging you on the invoice relates to a purchase of items for business purposed you can just claim the VAT back on your VAT 3 return (assuming you are not engaged in a VAT exempt business).

And request a valid VAT invoice from them to support your claim per VAT3 return.

The rules you're quoting are relevant for selling to consumers, not businesses.

barneystinson

.

Howjoe1

Bigcheeze wrote: »

The rules you're quoting are relevant for selling to consumers, not businesses.

THe point is, if they have registered for VAT in Ireland because of distance sells rules, then they have to account for Irish VAT on all supplies both B2C and B2B.

The OP has suffered Irish VAT not UK VAT.

NeptunesMoon

cheers lads, a little confused here. Can I just request the irish vat invoices off amazon after each purchase then? I think before they started charging 23% (Irsh vat) i provided my vat number one time to get the price EX UK VAT.

it's going to be a little tricky to get the "euro" amount, unless they have it stated somewhere given that they are charging the card in sterling, no?

Bigcheeze

NeptunesMoon wrote: »

cheers lads, a little confused here. Can I just request the irish vat invoices off amazon after each purchase then? I think before they started charging 23% (Irsh vat) i provided my vat number one time to get the price EX UK VAT.

it's going to be a little tricky to get the "euro" amount, unless they have it stated somewhere given that they are charging the card in sterling, no?

The Irish vat invoices are in your account. See link above. The amazon invoices show the exchange rate used. Use this exchange rate to convert the sterling vat amount to euro and claim that amount on the vat3 return.

If they remove the vat after entering your vat number then all the better for future purchases.

NeptunesMoon

ah yeah, cheers for that. so i just put the 23% rate down as whatever conversion rate they used and then put the fees down as 0%?

the way i have my excel sheet set up is

purchase item - 23% - 13.5% - 0% - VAT - NET

So I'd just put it as

amazon - sale price converted to euro under 23%, then whatever was added to the debit on top of this as the 0% bank rate? and I'd get the correct VAT amount to claim back?

srsly78

Make a new amazon account for your business usage. Use your original one for personal purchases only.

Also note that the vat reg only takes effect for amazon itself, it doesn't work for 3rd party purchases - you will still pay vat on these. This will likely necessitate filling out EVR forms which is a lot of hassle.

NeptunesMoon

cheers, doesn't seem like there's really any need to open another account if I can get the VAT invoices? Unless it means that I won't pay the VAT at all on non amazon orders??

I think I'll still be paying the Irish vat if I open a new account for orders from IRE and then have to claim it back as if it were an Irish purchase?

For the non amazon orders they'll go to my pile of receipts that may some day be claimed back using one of them forms when I can claim enough back from each country to make it worth while getting the acocuntant to do it??

srsly78

You are ordering from amazon.co.uk - there is no amazon.ie. So even if they have an Irish VAT number and an Irish HQ it doesn't matter! It's still an intra eu import if the goods cross international borders.

Thus it's easier to just get the orders exempt from vat, rather than reclaiming it.

Similarly with Google, I had to file an EVR request to get my VAT back when I bought phones from google. Phones came from the UK, but they use an Irish VAT number!

If you reclaim from the Irish taxman that was paid to the UK taxman you are doing it wrong

NeptunesMoon

hmmm, so the process of reclaiming vat from say something I buy in Dublin is I keep the receipt, take note of the vat amount and pay this amount less on my vat return. You're saying that even though I'm being charged the IRish vat rate for the amazon purchases, its not going to be as simple as just adding the amount to the same spreadsheet as the dublin purchase and taking the amount off the VAT owed when doing my return, that ill still have to do the EVR request so should therefore sign up a new business account for amazong and buy any business related stuff EX VAT (or inc 20% UK VAT if from a reseller)?

What should I do now with all the purchases where I did pay 23% vat

srsly78

Ask your accountant. VAT is serious business, you might end up having to pay it all back.

Bigcheeze

srsly78 wrote: »

You are ordering from amazon.co.uk - there is no amazon.ie. So even if they have an Irish VAT number and an Irish HQ it doesn't matter! It's still an intra eu import if the goods cross international borders.

Thus it's easier to just get the orders exempt from vat, rather than reclaiming it.

Similarly with Google, I had to file an EVR request to get my VAT back when I bought phones from google. Phones came from the UK, but they use an Irish VAT number!

If you reclaim from the Irish taxman that was paid to the UK taxman you are doing it wrong

Just ignore this. The poster has not read the thread.

srsly78

I read it. And I relayed the advice given to me by both my accountant and by HMRC. If you know something I don't then please share!

If it doesn't count as imports, when why do amazon charge you 0% when you enter your vat number?

Bigcheeze

srsly78 wrote: »

I read it. And I relayed the advice given to me by both my accountant and by HMRC. If you know something I don't then please share!

If it doesn't count as imports, when why do amazon charge you 0% when you enter your vat number?

We are talking about Irish (23%) vat. HMRC has nothing to do with it.

srsly78

So to be clear, you can do either? Reclaim as normal on vat3 form, or use 0% rate from amazon?

NeptunesMoon

ah lads im confused now :D

Howjoe1

Can someone clarify the following, which might help the OP.

If Amazon UK exceed the distance sales threshold for sales to unregistered customers in Ireland, they register for VAT here and charge it's Irish customers Irish VAT @ 23%.

Assuming, Amazon UK also supply goods to Irish VAT registered businesses, does the fact that they have had to register for VAT in Ireland based on exceeding the distance sales threshold mean:

(a) they now also have to charge Irish VAT to business customers?, or

(b) they continue to obtain the Irish business company's Irish VAT Number and zero-rate the supply as an intra-community supply? (for which the Irish customer will self-account for).

i.e does the requirement to register for distance sales in Ireland to unregistered individuals mean that are now liable to charge Irish VAT on ALL sales?

barneystinson

Howjoe1 wrote: »

Can someone clarify the following, which might help the OP.

If Amazon UK exceed the distance sales threshold for sales to unregistered customers in Ireland, they register for VAT here and charge it's Irish customers Irish VAT @ 23%.

Assuming, Amazon UK also supply goods to Irish VAT registered businesses, does the fact that they have had to register for VAT in Ireland based on exceeding the distance sales threshold mean:

(a) they now also have to charge Irish VAT to business customers?, or

(b) they continue to obtain the Irish business company's Irish VAT Number and zero-rate the supply as an intra-community supply? (for which the Irish customer will self-account for).

i.e does the requirement to register for distance sales in Ireland to unregistered individuals mean that are now liable to charge Irish VAT on ALL sales?

Well, to put it quite simply, having opened a business account and furnished Amazon with his Irish VAT reg no., he accounts for the VAT based on the document they provide him with:

If it's a zero-rated Intra-community invoice then he self accounts for the VAT, and if it's an invoice with 23% Irish VAT applied then he'll have paid it here and he claims his deeuction here.

DubTony

I think the simplest way to look at this is how it works at the moment (as opposed to how it may have done in the past).
Amazon charges Irish VAT. That's a given.
Anyone who's unsure of this should add an item to their shopping basket and watch the slight increase in price when they go to checkout. That's the UK VAT being removed and the Irish VAT added.

So they are effectively an Irish supplier. This means that you handle the VAT in exactly the same way you would if you were buying from a local VAT registered supplier (excepting currency exchange which has already been explained in this thread).

When a European based supplier is registered for Irish VAT, the distance selling rules (where VAT is concerned) don't apply.

NeptunesMoon

cheers for that. so i definitely just account for it the same as any other irish purchase?

when it's mentioned about "self accounts for the VAT" if it was 0% applied, what exactly does that mean?. ill double check all this with my accountant of course. cheers

DubTony

Having said all that

Here's a very short thread on askaboutmoney that supports what Srsly says

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=183152

Amazon has a full section about VAT on the site, but I've never seen anything about Irish vat.
Give Revenue a call. And don't forget to let us know what they tell you.

eric90000

Hey, sorry to bump an old thread. Just to confirm, if you have a VAT number and register it on amazon UK, will the VAT be removed from the total when purchasing or do you have to claim it back afterwards?

WarZoneBrother

eric90000 wrote: »

Hey, sorry to bump an old thread. Just to confirm, if you have a VAT number and register it on amazon UK, will the VAT be removed from the total when purchasing or do you have to claim it back afterwards?

I too would like to know this... But also would like to know would the same apply for Germany Amazon?

srsly78

Yes if you register your VAT number your purchases will be zero-rated. Whether this is correct or not seems to be the source of much argument...

pedronomix

Just be aware that if it transpires that the purchase is not made by the VAT registered trader in Ireland, Revenue can come after you. VAT fraud is a huge issue in the EU!!

WarZoneBrother

So I order from Amazon Germany edit profile with my VAT number and purchase from their and does the VAT get deducted straight away or do I have to claim it somehow... Also it is ok to order from germany?

srsly78

To be honest I haven't ordered off amazon germany, only from amazon UK. I don't see why it would work differently tho. You register your number, and if it's an intra-eu import it gets zero-rated (this means the vat gets deducted straight away). Note that you should account for this import on your VIES return (in the "imports from EU" box).

I have however ordered stuff from hardwareversand.de and got it zero-rated as well, but their site doesn't really handle it automatically. Needed to nag them in badly translated german and have the invoice manually zero-rated...

Why would it not be ok to order from Germany? This EU thingy is pretty serious about free trade.

WarZoneBrother

srsly78 wrote: »

To be honest I haven't ordered off amazon germany, only from amazon UK. I don't see why it would work differently tho. You register your number, and if it's an intra-eu import it gets zero-rated (this means the vat gets deducted straight away). Note that you should account for this import on your VIES return (in the "imports from EU" box).

I have however ordered stuff from hardwareversand.de and got it zero-rated as well, but their site doesn't really handle it automatically. Needed to nag them in badly translated german and have the invoice manually zero-rated...

Why would it not be ok to order from Germany? This EU thingy is pretty serious about free trade.

Cool cheers will try that..

thecommander

pedronomix wrote: »

Just be aware that if it transpires that the purchase is not made by the VAT registered trader in Ireland, Revenue can come after you. VAT fraud is a huge issue in the EU!!

We had an situation a few years ago where an old VAT number (personal one that was defunct) was being used by a supplier, as they hadn't changed it over to new company. Revenue came knocking and audited us. Was all fine in the end, but they do check!

WarZoneBrother

Anyone know how to order in German or translate the secure pages and checkout.. this is on Amazon.De ..

srsly78

Use chrome and google autotranslate should help?

WarZoneBrother

srsly78 wrote: »

Use chrome and google autotranslate should help?

Yeah found a link on Amazon to help the translating hopefully that helps.