Motor tax madness..

sparrowcar

I recently paid my motor tax which is €1K+ per year and obviously I would love to spend that money elsewhere but such is life.

So I was out walking the puppy last night and I noticed a car with its tax out since last Sep. I decided to look at all the cars on my walk and I couldn't believe how many tax discs were out and also the amount of expired NCT's.

One 2010 BMW 530D had no tax since last Aug. It got me thinking if you can't afford the tax can you afford the car?
One of my work colleagues is just back from a 1 week holiday in the US and he hasn't paid his car tax in almost a year..

Am I missing something? How are people getting away with this?

650Ginge

sparrowcar wrote: »

I recently paid my motor tax which is €1K+ per year and obviously I would love to spend that money elsewhere but such is life.

So I was out walking the puppy last night and I noticed a car with its tax out since last Sep. I decided to look at all the cars on my walk and I couldn't believe how many tax discs were out and also the amount of expired NCT's.

One 2010 BMW 530D had no tax since last Aug. It got me thinking if you can't afford the tax can you afford the car?
One of my work colleagues is just back from a 1 week holiday in the US and he hasn't paid his car tax in almost a year..

Am I missing something? How are people getting away with this?

Must be a dog walking thing. But it is the same in my village.

But there is zero enforcement. I actually only have tax displayed on my Prius since I got it three years ago. The other two discs are in the glovebox. I haven't been stopped at a checkpoint in the 15 years I lived in the south I drive 60kmiles a year.

People in this country only do what they are forced to do. No one is forcing them. Bit like paying mortgages.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Driving in dublin all the time you tend to hit the checkpoints a bit more alright but ive gone through plenty of them without actually been breathalized or checking my discs

Plenty of times id be missing insurance discs because theyd be in the post but nothing ever said to me about it !

Nixer Jim

sparrowcar wrote: »

One of my work colleagues is just back from a 1 week holiday in the US and he hasn't paid his car tax in almost a year.

Good on him. That's the spirit. Irish motor tax is theft, plain and simple. If he gets one over on this corrupt state then good stuff. Life's for living, not for being extorted via car taxation for the benefit of German bond holders.

corktina

what is theft is guys not paying their share.If everyone paid, I might have to pay less.. Come on Traffic Corps, lets have these spongers all dealt with.

Padraig Mor

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Good on him. That's the spirit. Irish motor tax is theft, plain and simple.

Irish motor tax is extortionate, but it's all up front. You don't need to pay huge amounts if you don't want to. And I say that as someone forking over €1500 to tax my yoke.

If he gets one over on this corrupt state then good stuff.

If he gets one over the rest of us have to pay more.

Life's for living, not for being extorted via car taxation for the benefit of German bond holders.

The vast majority of tax collected in Ireland goes to pay for normal public expenditure, especially social welfare and public pay. A small portion goes to pay for the banks etc, the majority of whose bondholders are actually American and British, not German (indeed, it seems the Germans actually wanted Ireland to screw the bondholders).

But hey, let's not get facts in the way of a rant eh?

Avns1s

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Good on him. That's the spirit. Irish motor tax is theft, plain and simple. If he gets one over on this corrupt state then good stuff. Life's for living, not for being extorted via car taxation for the benefit of German bond holders.

This kind of statement never ceases to amaze me. It's a reference to the "State" as though its some sort of object somehow removed from us as ordinary citizens or otherwise the State = the government

Well, can I just point out that this object or the government wont be particularly affected if some person or cohort of people don't pay their due. We, the ordinary people who do carry our weight will be and guess what, we are the State!!

Idbatterim

Irish motor tax is extortionate, but it's all up front. You don't need to pay huge amounts if you don't want to. And I say that as someone forking over €1500 to tax my yoke.

Correct, we all know what the rate is before purchasing the car. but of course most, not all the rates, particularly on CC are extortionate. Thing is, for those of us, currently being fleeced driving bigger engined cc cars and dont want to pay a big premium for "big engined" emissions based cars yet, give it another year or two, at this point they will be at the point price wise, where there wont be a need to pay extortionate tax anymore. Then its payback time!!! Then Ill be having my nice E92 325 with 3L for E570 and because its not a fortune to tax, I wont have to split the payments, costing me even more! The parasites time of robbing anyone who wants to drive anything decent is coming to a close IMO...

Nixer Jim

Avns1s wrote: »

This kind of statement never ceases to amaze me. It's a reference to the "State" as though its some sort of object somehow removed from us as ordinary citizens or otherwise the State = the government

Well, can I just point out that this object or the government wont be particularly affected if some person or cohort of people don't pay their due. We, the ordinary people who do carry our weight will be and guess what, we are the State!!

And they just keep lining up. Enjoy your 75/80 years as a serf.

Sure the State is for you isn't it

>>>>>>>>>> walks off howling with laughter.

bbam

I don't know if it's bluff or not but I was in company of a guard one night, friend of a friend sort of thing.

Anyway he said they often turn off the number plate reader thing as it's just continuously scanning and ringing if for cars with expired tax. They just let it go.

The Bishop Basher

Padraig Mor wrote: »

If he gets one over the rest of us have to pay more.

Why do people insist on using this line every time. It's simply not true and it's naive in the extreme to think otherwise.

Avns1s

Swanner wrote: »

Why do people insist on using this line every time. It's simply not true and it's naive in the extreme to think otherwise.

How is it not true? If everyone paid their share then the compliant ones wouldn't have to make up for the default of those who are non compliant.

Do you ever stop and wonder how the hospitals, roads, schools, etc etc etc are funded. If everyone paid nothing would you mind that you didn't have those things?

The Bishop Basher

Avns1s wrote: »

How is it not true? If everyone paid their share then the compliant ones wouldn't have to make up for the default of those who are non compliant.

Do you ever stop and wonder how the hospitals, roads, schools, etc etc etc are funded. If everyone paid nothing would you mind that you didn't have those things?

Ok so if those if us who don't pay started paying the rates would come down would they ?

corktina

It obviously is true. If X amount of tax is levied but only Y is paid, then the shortfall has to be made up by those who do pay their taxes.

shawnee

corktina wrote: »

what is theft is guys not paying their share.If everyone paid, I might have to pay less.. Come on Traffic Corps, lets have these spongers all dealt with.

In your dreams ! The more they can extort from people from road users in this totally unfair tax system the more they will. No other country has a motor taxation system as irregular and unfair as the Irish system. Let them bring in a proper taxation system, tax the cars that are using the road the most , via the petrol or diesel tax. No problem with collection and everyone pays. Quite honestly would have no moral problem with not paying road tax in this country:P:P, only problem I would have would be paying the fines

OU812

Abolish it & put it on the fuel. You use it, you pay it. Same with property tax. Put it on electricity. If the house is empty, it isn't paid & the only way to avoid it is to live in a cave.

If businesses that use a lot of fuel are tax compliment, they could get a rebate. It's a progressive way of doing things.

Nixer Jim

Avns1s wrote: »

How is it not true? If everyone paid their share then the compliant ones wouldn't have to make up for the default of those who are non compliant.

Meanwhile back in the real world, the pig just gets fatter and we still have crap hospitals/schools/roads.

Come on, you're not seven!

corktina

Bring on the fines then! and the car seizures, maybe we can collect enough that way to reduce the tax for the rest of us.

Nixer Jim

corktina wrote: »

Bring on the fines then! and the car seizures, maybe we can collect enough that way to reduce the tax for the rest of us.

Because that's want they'll do, they'll reduce the tax.

Where's my facepalm jpeg gone !!!

zenno

I feel like a right dumb-ass paying it myself, but the only reason why I pay it is because if I'm stopped and have no tax, they can take the car from me if the tax is out a long time.

I hate paying it, but looking over my shoulder all the time as well as paranoid about meeting a checkpoint I just pay it for piece of mind, without having to worry about being caught.

corktina

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Because that's want they'll do, they'll reduce the tax.

Where's my facepalm jpeg gone !!!

to pay less is also not to have to suffer as big increases you know. We may not pay less in the car tax area, but we will pay less overall if everyone pays up what they should

Nixer Jim

corktina wrote: »

to pay less is also not to have to suffer as big increases you know. We may not pay less in the car tax area, but we will pay less overall if everyone pays up what they should

Sure through the entire history of the state we've seen taxes go down as we collected more.....

Oh wait, that's not right.

Guys, if everybody was charged a million quid on motor tax and everybody paid up, there would still be a shortfall in funds. The state is a self serving bottomless pit.

As for paying a "fair share" Is a grand a year fair on a twenty year old 2.3 litre car when 200 quid will suffice on a 50 grand new car. Just get a grip. You morons got us into this mess with that serf like talk.

keithclancy

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Good on him. That's the spirit. Irish motor tax is theft, plain and simple. If he gets one over on this corrupt state then good stuff. Life's for living, not for being extorted via car taxation for the benefit of German bond holders.

Nice that you can distort a misguided public opinion into a method for justifying your reason for ripping off your fellow law abiding citizens and residents.

While your at it I guess you should boycott all those filthy German brands :pac:

Must tell the City Hall that I'm not paying my City tax this year, sure that money goes to substitute the rich a$$holes in the nicer part of town :P

Nixer Jim

keithclancy wrote: »

Must tell the City Hall that I'm not paying my City tax this year, sure that money goes to substitute the rich a$$holes in the nicer part of town :P

Noooooo. You're not getting this. You're paying for me. Big extortionate, tax evading, money embezzling, cronnie who awards multiple contracts to his mates after being elected to protect you, all this while selling your kids future down the drain. Hope your 16 year old enjoys Canada. Still, flights are cheaper now.


Wait a minute, that's not me either.

pred racer

corktina wrote: »

what is theft is guys not paying their share.If everyone paid, I might have to pay less.. Come on Traffic Corps, lets have these spongers all dealt with.

Do you really believe you would pay less if everybody paid........really?

Phoebas

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Good on him. That's the spirit. Irish motor tax is theft, plain and simple. If he gets one over on this corrupt state then good stuff. Life's for living, not for being extorted via car taxation for the benefit of German bond holders.

This is a joke post, right?

JerCotter7

corktina wrote: »

what is theft is guys not paying their share.If everyone paid, I might have to pay less.. Come on Traffic Corps, lets have these spongers all dealt with.

I needed a good joke in the morning. If everyone payed they would think the tax was too low and raise it until some people stopped paying.

Nixer Jim

For maximum compliance, taxes need to be reduced.

That is all.

Idbatterim

How is it not true? If everyone paid their share then the compliant ones wouldn't have to make up for the default of those who are non compliant.

We are all speculating, but I doubt it, they put it up because its such an easy target, raise 10 or 20 million from motor tax or cut the same amount from the "poor, needy, vulnerable" bla bla bla, easy choice :rolleyes: I dont believe that non compliance from some, means it is raised for the rest. I'm also of the opinion that fair play to those that take the risk, I wouldnt do it now, not with being in Dublin, living beside a guarda station and the off the road declaration. But rest assured. I am sure everyone posting here, needs the money more than those parasites!!!

Just a further thought, while I dont think people that dont pay it are resulting in it being bumped up, it obviously results in decreased revenue for the state, resulting in higher taxes or less expenditure, thats for sure...

For maximum compliance, taxes need to be reduced.

That is all.

Sure they only take 52c in the euro for the marginal rate, I'm glad that I am so wealthy, that I can have over half of my earning confiscated!!!

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tax-rate-too-high-for-those-on-32800-admits-noonan-29990940.html

The_Honeybadger

All the motor tax dodgers could be brought into the net in one quick swoop by eliminating the current system and introducing a fuel levy at the pumps. The current system is grossly unfair on people who drive older cc based cars. Many of these people can't afford a newer low emissions car and are getting screwed because of it. Of course a careful analysis would need to be done first to ensure the levy is at the very least revenue neutral. This would also save Garda time and would free up staff in motor tax offices, who could be redeployed somewhere they are needed more. I see no downside to this system.

bockeys jollocks

corktina wrote: »

Bring on the fines then! and the car seizures, maybe we can collect enough that way to reduce the tax for the rest of us.

Fantasy land, if they seized all the cars that were not tax compliant, there would be no one working in the country. Motor tax is expensive and most don't have it anymore.

The amount of cars in my workplace with tax out of date over 3 months is enormous, I will say my tax is up to date as I get this horrible sickening feeling my car will be ceased if I don't have it.

EazyD

Nixer Jim wrote: »

For maximum compliance, taxes need to be reduced.

That is all.

For maximum compliance, there needs to be more enforcement, yes the rates are unfair, and questionable at best but that does not excuse dodging payment. Those who do need to be struck with bigger fines

Idbatterim

The current system is grossly unfair on people who drive older cc based cars. Many of these people can't afford a newer low emissions car and are getting screwed because of it.

Like I said earlier, these days are nearly over, for those that cant afford an emissions based car or dont want the depreciation you will have on one (to save a few hundred in tax) these days are going to be numbered fairly soon, as even the 08's now are obviously 6 years old... Give it another year or two... I was looking at a 6 series, I'm going to leave it though, as much as I'd love the car, it would kill me to give that kind of money yearly to those p**cks!

The current system is grossly unfair on people who drive older cc based cars.

In most cases, yes, in some, it can be more on emissions... Also I dont exactly have much sympathy for people driving around in anything say 1.6 and under on CC, they are not the ones being bled dry, then again in fairness, they are CHOOSING not to drive bigger cc cars, it is down to personal choice at the end of the day...

corktina

you aren't giving money to anyone except ourselves for the services we need

The_Honeybadger

Idbatterim wrote: »

Like I said earlier, these days are nearly over, for those that cant afford an emissions based car or dont want the depreciation you will have on one (to save a few hundred in tax) these days are going to be numbered fairly soon, as even the 08's now are obviously 6 years old... Give it another year or two... I was looking at a 6 series, I'm going to leave it though, as much as I'd love the car, it would kill me to give that kind of money yearly to those p**cks!

I'm in a cc based car, it's an 06, I plan to keep it for at least another 5 years so it ain't nearly over for me. By the time I get my next car I'd expect that the system will have been reformed as older cars with the higher tax being scrapped will lead to a drop in revenue. The system is just bonkers.

El Horseboxo

So what happens if someone who hasn't paid motor tax in 2 years gets stopped without a disc and is asked to produce it within x number of days? Obviously they'll need to buy it then. But would they have to pay for the previous 2 years as well as the car would have been registered in their name? Or is it a case of they've got away with it?

FearDark

corktina wrote: »

what is theft is guys not paying their share.If everyone paid, I might have to pay less.. Come on Traffic Corps, lets have these spongers all dealt with.

Because that's how it works. :rolleyes:

The_Honeybadger

El Horseboxo wrote: »

So what happens if someone who hasn't paid motor tax in 2 years gets stopped without a disc and is asked to produce it within x number of days? Obviously they'll need to buy it then. But would they have to pay for the previous 2 years as well as the car would have been registered in their name? Or is it a case of they've got away with it?

I have heard of people like this selling their car to a mate for a euro which wipes out the arrears and buying it straight back again. Of course if you are stopped by the guards you can't do this.

bockeys jollocks

corktina wrote: »

you aren't giving money to anyone except ourselves for the services we need

What planet are you from? I'd love to see my tax dollars spent on services we need.

_Kaiser_

Like Zenno I pay the tax on-time every quarter (€422 each time) more for the "peace of mind" of not having to worry about it if I ever DO meet a checkpoint (which I haven't seen in Dublin in years!) rather than any sense of "civic/patriotic duty". I wouldn't mind so much if that money WAS actually reinvested in the roads, driver education etc, but the facts are that it just goes into the central pot to be pissed away or paid to financial gamblers who bet, lost, but we'll still pay out on anyway!

As for the idea that if tax compliance jumped to 100%, the rates would be lowered... please!! This country is running on borrowed money but more than that, all paying your way in this country gets you is exposure to MORE bills!

Look at the current mess with the pre/post 2008 tax systems. They told everyone to go out and buy new cars and save the trees so people did but when they all bought low-emission 520d's and the tax take fell through the floor what happened... they hiked the rates! So much for saving the bunny rabbits!

Anyone who thinks that rates would EVER come down without something else being hiked to compensate is living in a fantasy.

Supergurrier

Love handing over 1300-1450 (depending way I pay it to tax a 7 year oldhatchback)

Go Ireland etc

kult

Most of my friends use photoshop or buy discs from some russians who print them exactly the way tax office prints them. 25% of the price. Road tax is a scam, roads are in horrible conditions, they tax us on fuel already. The road tax money does not go to the road works at all, look at the state of some roads. I would be happy to pay reasonable road tax if the roads were good and I did not have to fix my suspension often.

corktina

bockeys jollocks wrote: »

What planet are you from? I'd love to see my tax dollars spent on services we need.

dollars?

corktina

mickeyk wrote: »

I have heard of people like this selling their car to a mate for a euro which wipes out the arrears and buying it straight back again. Of course if you are stopped by the guards you can't do this.

Not once you've been caught. You'll get hit with all the arrears back to the last time it was taxed

corktina

kult wrote: »

Most of my friends use photoshop or buy discs from some russians who print them exactly the way tax office prints them. 25% of the price. Road tax is a scam, roads are in horrible conditions, they tax us on fuel already. The road tax money does not go to the road works at all, look at the state of some roads. I would be happy to pay reasonable road tax if the roads were good and I did not have to fix my suspension often.

It's not road tax , it is Motor Tax. Nothing to do with the roads.

bockeys jollocks

corktina wrote: »

dollars?

Euro dollars.

kult

Motor tax then. Anyway, I haven't paid in years and I am not going too, it's a scam and money is wasted, not reinvested.

Supergurrier

kult wrote: »

Most of my friends use photoshop or buy discs from some russians who print them exactly the way tax office prints them. 25% of the price. Road tax is a scam, roads are in horrible conditions, they tax us on fuel already. The road tax money does not go to the road works at all, look at the state of some roads. I would be happy to pay reasonable road tax if the roads were good and I did not have to fix my suspension often.

My main problem is the two highest tiers on the new system which are madness and the fact they keep bumping up a now defunct old system when it should have been frozen in 2007

Fuel on tax is the simplest way

The_Honeybadger

corktina wrote: »

Not once you've been caught. You'll get hit with all the arrears back to the last time it was taxed

Yes as I said if you are stopped by the guards first you are fooked.

bockeys jollocks

corktina wrote: »

It's not road tax , it is Motor Tax. Nothing to do with the roads.

So what's it for?

kult

Yep, tax on fuel is the best way, you pay when you actually drive, not you pay even when you do not drive for months. Scam bastards govern..