stomach tube

mcgyvor

what do ye think of using stomach tube as routine on all new born calves.i find it a
disaster as calves are a nightmare to get feeding properly only use it rarely as a last
resort and it always takes ages to get that calf drinking properly after.I think the people recommending using tube routinely dont feed the calves afterwards or am i doing something wrong ,what do ye think

munkus

I use it the first time, just after the calf is born, suckler calves that is. This is just to ensure he has the colostrum. He's in with mammy then and off they go.

Think it's the height of laziness if lads are doing this daily. Not good for the calves throat.

jaymla627

munkus wrote: »

I use it the first time, just after the calf is born, suckler calves that is. This is just to ensure he has the colostrum. He's in with mammy then and off they go.

Think it's the height of laziness if lads are doing this daily. Not good for the calves throat.

Always try with the bottle first, then if that fails will go with the tube....

Milked out

mcgyvor wrote: »

what do ye think of using stomach tube as routine on all new born calves.i find it a
disaster as calves are a nightmare to get feeding properly only use it rarely as a last
resort and it always takes ages to get that calf drinking properly after.I think the people recommending using tube routinely dont feed the calves afterwards or am i doing something wrong ,what do ye think

I try with the bottle here first, if they don't I use the tube. I.d tube the first 3 feeds if they don't drink, I'd leave them hungry then if they don't drink at the fourth and generally they suck away after that. Much handier when they drink from bottle first as I'd hold them to the feeder then with the second feed and it speeds things up a good bit

trixi2011

jaymla627 wrote: »

Always try with the bottle first, then if that fails will go with the tube....

Tube all heifer calves within 6 hours of birth if they don't suck next feed would skip a feed usually be really easy trained the next feed with warm milk

biddy2013

trixi2011 wrote: »

Tube all heifer calves within 6 hours of birth if they don't suck next feed would skip a feed usually be really easy trained the next feed with warm milk

i only stomach tube the ones i dont see sucking, got a lecture the other day that i should be stomach tubing every calf... didnt go down too well ....

knockmulliner

biddy2013 wrote: »

i only stomach tube the ones i dont see sucking, got a lecture the other day that i should be stomach tubing every calf... didnt go down too well ....

Same here, I would go with the bottle feeder if they don't suck the cow and only if the tit bottle was unsuccessful would i tube. Rarely have to.

49801

Teat first
Then bottle
Then tube as last resort

Qty to tube is a bone of contention for me. Tube them too big of a feed and they have too full of a belly and get lazy.

1L to 1.5L is plenty IMO

grazeaway

biddy2013 wrote: »

i only stomach tube the ones i dont see sucking, got a lecture the other day that i should be stomach tubing every calf... didnt go down too well ....

Same here only use it if the calf dosent drink the mother or is too weak. Tubing is really a last resort. The inside of the throat can get irritated and it could also go down the wrong way, nearly drowned one a few years ago as there was still some milk in the tube as I was taking it out and he started coughing and it went down his wind pipe.

hugo29

biddy2013 wrote: »

i only stomach tube the ones i dont see sucking, got a lecture the other day that i should be stomach tubing every calf... didnt go down too well ....

+1

biddy2013

this lad was telling me they need at least 4 litres in 1 go, how i didnt tell him to fook away off i dont know, each farmer knows/does whats best in each situation

td5man

Stomach tube most calves their first feed, 1.5 litres is plenty.
Have very few health problems since i started doing this.

biddy2013

td5man wrote: »

Stomach tube most calves their first feed, 1.5 litres is plenty.
Have very few health problems since i started doing this.

i have the bag tube which holds 2.5 litres, imagine giving them 4 litres:eek:

onyerbikepat

Different farms, different situations. There was a suckler farmer on the journal a while back that was tubing all his new borns. This guy though, had the cows on an away farm, so he wasnt around to see them suckling.

I always try to get them to drink the cow ASAP. If they wouldnt drink, then, I would always tube them. Now since I got teh calving camera, I put it on record and check them then on playback.

delaval

Tube all calves on sight, sucking or not.

Collect 20 litres of colostrum each milking and use through out the day.

I know, Johnes!!!!!!

biddy2013

delaval wrote: »

Tube all calves on sight, sucking or not.

Collect 20 litres of colostrum each milking and use through out the day.

I know, Johnes!!!!!!

thats what i am afraid of, if a calf needs to be tubed it gets its own mothers milk here

td5man

biddy2013 wrote: »

thats what i am afraid of, if a calf needs to be tubed it gets its own mothers milk here

We run the cow into the parlour and milk her to feed the first feed

freedominacup

Is this johnes thing being overplayed?

We try the bottle here if not tube, 2.5 to 3.5 litres depending on the size of the calf. Very few if any calves suckle their mothers. We are getting much better outcomes since we started giving the larger volumes of colostrum.

49801

freedominacup wrote: »

Is this johnes thing being overplayed?

We try the bottle here if not tube, 2.5 to 3.5 litres depending on the size of the calf. Very few if any calves suckle their mothers. We are getting much better outcomes since we started giving the larger volumes of colostrum.

Agreed that is a nice amount of colostrum to feed and calves will have much stronger immunity.... But are you feeding that qty all in one feeding?

jaymla627

49801 wrote: »

Agreed that is a nice amount of colostrum to feed and calves will have much stronger immunity.... But are you feeding that qty all in one feeding?

Calves here are actually drinking 3-4 litres after an hour of birth, never had calves with so much life in them, cows are being lead feeded this year and it's really paying-off

freedominacup

49801 wrote: »

Agreed that is a nice amount of colostrum to feed and calves will have much stronger immunity.... But are you feeding that qty all in one feeding?

Yes they'll drink it if the mood is on them so np hesitation about tubing.

delaval

biddy2013 wrote: »

thats what i am afraid of, if a calf needs to be tubed it gets its own mothers milk here

Own mother's milk no guarantee in Johnes

biddy2013

delaval wrote: »

Own mother's milk no guarantee in Johnes

i know but you are not spreading it between others

Greengrass1

Tbh if I had 10+ cows calving down a day I would do the same as del is. Takes a lot of work to give a calf its own mothers milk

ferger1

how do lads stomach tube and prevent the tube going down the wrong way...tis something im terrified of doing without causing damage. but i know its something i will have to do eventually.

Any hints on the correct procedure would be greatly appreciated

td5man

ferger1 wrote: »

how do lads stomach tube and prevent the tube going down the wrong way...tis something im terrified of doing without causing damage. but i know its something i will have to do eventually.

Any hints on the correct procedure would be greatly appreciated

Keep the calfs neck straight and gently push the tube in the calf should swallow the tube.

ferger1

td5man wrote: »

Keep the calfs neck straight and gently push the tube in the calf should swallow the tube.

Thanks. good tip. Any way of knowing if its gone into the windpipe by mistake before you let off the milk

td5man

ferger1 wrote: »

Thanks. good tip. Any way of knowing if its gone into the windpipe by mistake before you let off the milk

Yep you'll see the milk coming out his nose if its gone the wrong way no point in panicking as it's too late.
I don't think its possible for it to go the wrong way, have been doing it for years without any problems.
As long as the tube goes in easily you should be OK.

freedominacup

Just out for a smoke. Getting a bit to eat with the family. Calved a cow at ten to six. Father on yard tonight so calf tubed with 3 litres. No worries about whether she's fed and nothing in calving boxes so can enjoy the couple of pints. Leaving it to nature and I'd have to go back checking.

onyerbikepat

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74794014&postcount=5

From;
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74793073

biddy2013

if in doubt ask vet to show you how to do it

farmersfriend

ferger1 wrote: »

Thanks. good tip. Any way of knowing if its gone into the windpipe by mistake before you let off the milk

Put your ear at opening of bag and u should hear stomach noises. If u hear breathing u are in wrong place..

delaval

Buy a Jex bull calf for a score and try it. The first thing I show a student is how to tube a calf, get them to practice on je bulls and unfortunately they've never managed to kill one

Straddle the calf, one hand under chin and hold up calves chin elongating the neck next insert tube with a gentle push it'll slide down. If you meet resistance don't force it, gentle pressure only

stanflt

typical sat night

mf240

Most of our cows will let you hand milk them so I usually milk them into a jug and bottle feed the calf, give as much as they will drink up to 4 litres. If cow is touchy I let into parlour to milk.

Another point on stomach tubing is to let the tube fully empty before you pull it out, if you do it too soon the last bit might get on their lungs.

freedominacup

stanflt wrote: »

typical sat night

Where did you get the bottle for the stomach tube. I'm sick to the back teeth of the bags:mad:.

munkus

ferger1 wrote: »

Thanks. good tip. Any way of knowing if its gone into the windpipe by mistake before you let off the milk

let it down slowly and the calf will swallow it. If it is going down the right way you'll feel the head of it through the skin of the neck. The windpipe is solid so you won't feel it through that.

Greengrass1

freedominacup wrote: »

Where did you get the bottle for the stomach tube. I'm sick to the back teeth of the bags:mad:.

I got mine off Gregg care.
I had a shoof bottle already to start calves off on when they were dropped. Got the cap for stomach tube. Very easy to use and cheap enough too

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

Where did you get the bottle for the stomach tube. I'm sick to the back teeth of the bags:mad:.

This is what you need. Gregg Care Donegal

munkus

delaval wrote: »

This is what you need. Gregg Care Donegal

Is that a tap on the side, picture 3?

trixi2011

munkus wrote: »

Is that a tap on the side, picture 3?

That tap is to allow air in . If you open it the milk flows quicker.

patsy_mccabe

Came across this today. Good explanation on stomach tubing.

SuperTortoise

I'm embarrased to say i've never tube fed a calf, was never really shown how and never had the confidence to try it, i just persist with the bottle and if all else fails i will feed with a syringe into the mouth and dribble a little at a time.

tanko

SuperTortoise wrote: »

I'm embarrased to say i've never tube fed a calf, was never really shown how and never had the confidence to try it, i just persist with the bottle and if all else fails i will feed with a syringe into the mouth and dribble a little at a time.

I suppose if thats working for you thats the main thing. My vet reckons far more weak calves are drowned by being fed with bottles and syringes than stomach tubes.
The best advice i got was dont be afraid of it. Be gentle but firm at the same time and let the calf help you by swallowing the tube.
Once you get past the opening to the lungs it slides in.
Its always easier with two people. Once you do it a couple of times you'll be grand.

patsy_mccabe

I hate doing it, to be honest. That's why I took a refresher course last night. Have a very scoury calf here, that needed to be tubed. Good tip in the video about not having the calf's head straight with it's neck. Also, aiming up rather than down.

ozil10

I find the Trusti Tuber excellent for stomach tubing calves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51oCJbgT9O8

K.G.

ozil10 wrote: »

I find the Trusti Tuber excellent for stomach tubing calves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51oCJbgT9O8

big fan too.a tip for checking that its gone the right way.put you thumb and forefinger either side of the calves wind pipe and touching the area above it you should feel the bulb of tube moving behind the wind pipe not in it.

patsy_mccabe

Guys, have a calf here with bad scour. She has gone from lying out flat not able to lift her head on Saturday night to now (monday morning) standing up with some help. I've been tubing her homemade electrolyte with some natural yogurt mixed in.
I was going to tube her milk from the cow (suckler) but it says on the attached not to tube milk, why not?

Plan was to alternate feeding from electrolyte/yogurt to cows milk only.

cjpm

IIRC it's because the stomach tube milk goes into the wrong part of the stomach once the calf is 2 or 3 days old. Milk fed by tube is fine on day 1. Stomach tubing electrolytes is fine anytime .

greysides

I think homemade electrolyte is fine where calves aren't bad or in an emergency. There's a lot more science gone into them than you'd expect. Where a calf is bad pay the piper and give it something commercially made..... according to instructions.

Once they get over a week I'd recommend Duphalyte.

patsy_mccabe

Came home this evening and the calf was up walking around. Let her into cow and she drank for about 10mins.

Would I keep letting her drink every 8 hours or would it be better to continue giving the electrolyte every 2nd feed for another day?