"**** the EU"

The Pheasant2

A phone call between a top US diplomat to Europe and the US ambassador to Kiev has been leaked.

In the call the US politicians can be heard plotting about how to deal with the situation in Ukraine, disregarding the roles of Russia and the EU entirely - diplomat Victoria Newland says "**** the EU".

What does everybody think of this? Clearly not good if we're supposed to be allies and they're clearly looking to operate in Ukraine without our input.

frag420

I am just replying as its my 3000th post. Other than that I could not give a bollix!!

LostBoy101

'Mercia are fecking morons and only care about their own interests.

seamus

Such a short snippet, it's hard to say. Context and tone are everything.

The entire prelude the conversation may have been that the EU were pressuring the US to hold off and let the EU deal with the problem, but these two think that getting the UN involved will be more effective and "f*ck the EU" because if they rely on the EU, Russia will act faster than the EU and make it a bigger problem.

I'm not going to get too het up about it unless someone releases the entire phone conversation. Allies undermine each other all the time, whether that's individual countries, EU/UN/US or even departments within a company.

BillyMitchel

Would Merica whip the EUs ass in a war?

Eight Ball

Surprised anyone finds this unusual. America pretends to be everyone's friend but only cares about it's own self interests and rightfully so. The fools are the ones who buy into it. The average joe or jane on the street doesn't give a hoot as long as they have petrol in their cars and can watch X factor/English football on their TV/ipads.

Davarus Walrus

I don't actually understand or really care about the Ukraine. But this is a great opportunity to get involved in 'Merica bashing.

Bash.

user2011

Longer one for all who are interested

Hownowcow

I don't really understand or care about the Ukraine either but I agree.

**** the EU

Jonny7

Ah it's pretty standard stuff

In reality governments aren't "super-friends", you only have to read the wikileaks cables to see the candid exchanges

Any private business talks are much the same, and this is just high-level business

Russian saw an opportunity to embarrass US to the public and gain some political capital, Merkel has rapped knuckles on it

Politics is a game that Putin is extremely good at

conorhal

**** the EU?

Didn't we say that in several referendums and nobody paid a blind bit of attention?

J_E

Leaked? Yeah right. More like another government tapped a phone and want to create trouble.

The fact 'they didn't know where it came from' is more telling.

uch

Ah sure they're Great Gas altogether

catallus

The carnage wrought by the EUSKN in Ukraine by promoting "democratic protest" is a shrill warning for those who fear that once again the stench of burning flesh will cover our benighted continent.

MadsL

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Would Mercia whip the EUs ass in a war?

I'd say not, Ceolwulf II couldn't even hold off the Vikings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceolwulf_II_of_Mercia

BillyMitchel

MadsL wrote: »

I'd say not, Ceolwulf II couldn't even hold off the Vikings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceolwulf_II_of_Mercia

Thanks for that, damn autocorrect.

Not many could hold off the Vikings in fairness.

hatrickpatrick

Why is the American government even getting involved in a problem in Ukraine?
F*cking busybodies. You've made enough problems for your own country which you should be concentrating on cleaning up instead of sticking your nose into the internal affairs of sovereign nations.

MadsL

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why is the American government even getting involved in a problem in Ukraine?
F*cking busybodies. You've made enough problems for your own country which you should be concentrating on cleaning up instead of sticking your nose into the internal affairs of sovereign nations.

Trying to stop a civil war perhaps? Trying to stop Russia extending itself once more into Central Europe?

How very dare they...

Oink

We've all had a private conversation when we called a friend an idiot or worse. We don't necessarily mean it 100%.

The real issue is who was snooping, and why are they not told to go abuse themselves.

hatrickpatrick

MadsL wrote: »

Trying to stop a civil war perhaps? Trying to stop Russia extending itself once more into Central Europe?

How very dare they...

How dare they indeed. They have no jurisdiction over what happens in Ukraine. They have no more right than we do to interfere in a sovereign state.

Jonny7

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why is the American government even getting involved in a problem in Ukraine?
F*cking busybodies. You've made enough problems for your own country which you should be concentrating on cleaning up instead of sticking your nose into the internal affairs of sovereign nations.

Why doesn't the US government support the protests, I thought they were all about democracy and freedom, why do they turn a blind eye?

Why is the US interfering in another countries affairs, they are always meddling, why can't they just leave countries alone?

Why is the US interfering in Ukraine, but didn't do enough about the protests in Bahrain?





There I think I've covered everything

MadsL

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

How dare they indeed. They have no jurisdiction over what happens in Ukraine. They have no more right than we do to interfere in a sovereign state.

You do understand the word diplomacy?

I mean it wouldn't be like an Irish minister visiting Kiev and signing Double Tax Agreements now would it.

Days 298

America only cares about two things money and power. They couldn't give a rats ass about the Ukrainians.

MadsL

Days 298 wrote: »

America only cares about two things money and power. They couldn't give a rats ass about the Ukrainians.

Kudos for spelling America with an A.

Days 298

MadsL wrote: »

Kudos for spelling America with an A.

Damn autocorrect :pac:

The Pheasant2

Yeah I wish America would give up the "World Police" role they seem to have chosen for themselves

smurgen

The shocking part about this is the fact that they were discussing who should be the next Ukrainian president.they were again caught meddling in a sovereign nations affairs. In a bid to cover up this fact they're using the faux outrage at the fact that it was allegedly recorded by Russian intelligence. Such a pack of hypocrites.

moxin

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Yeah I wish America would give up the "World Police" role they seem to have chosen for themselves

They will soon when the Chinese take over

The Th!ng

About 5 or 6 years ago I had to get some numbered stickers made up for work, along with those I got the sign writer to make me up half a dozen bumper stickers with those very same words "**** The EU" on them complete with the 12 stars logo. Anyone I showed them to wanted one so they were snapped up in no time. Maybe I should do a reprint?

BlurstMonkey

MadsL wrote: »

Trying to stop a civil war perhaps? Trying to stop Russia extending itself once more into Central Europe?

How very dare they...

Russia aren't the ones with over 1000 military bases on foreign soil around the world and nukes pointed and ready at every semi-competitor nation on earth, not to mention the number of countries that have received US "diplomatic missions" in the last decade, or last 70 years for that matter, either directly or by proxy.

There is absolutely nothing to the idea that the US would intervene on a humanitarian basis. If they involve themselves it's a power play in some way. If they don't and people die or a country crumbles then it's because that is what benefits them more.

One thing the US is keen on doing is geographically boxing in any nation it doesn't like or perceives as a threat, and Ukraine is right there.
If anyone is politically minded you could look to Japans increased military posturing with regard to China, seemingly over very little. The fact is that China is looking to overtake the US economically, and they're aiming to be a relatively prosperous socialist state in a few decades time. See Cuba's treatment to know how much the US loves that idea. Japan is a client state of the US, it's posturing but it's not coming from Tokyo.

So I'm wandering a bit here, but a lot of it is down to posturing but also long term planning from the West, the west being America and it's thralls. Not in an egalitarian way, the idea is to stay king of the hill by whatever means and there's huge thought that goes into it all.

Anyway, I'm going to lose my train of thought so I'll just abruptly stop here.

The Th!ng

If it hadn't been for Russia and one or two other members of the security council the Americans would have been giving surface-to-air missiles to Al-Qaeda aligned militants in Syria.

thecatspjs

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Would Merica whip the EUs ass in a war?

I would think so. Mainly due to the amount of money they invest into their military compared to other countries.

Edit: Thought I'd throw this in to give an idea of how much more http://www.statista.com/statistics/262742/countries-with-the-highest-military-spending/

Sandwlch

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Would Merica whip the EUs ass in a war?

No. They'd whup it.

moxin

The Th!ng wrote: »

If it hadn't been for Russia and one or two other members of the security council the Americans would have been giving surface-to-air missiles to Al-Qaeda aligned militants in Syria.

Fantasy stuff there. Do you read much Daily Mail?

BlurstMonkey

moxin wrote: »

Fantasy stuff there. Do you read much Daily Mail?

It's not at all. The rebels are US backed and trained. It's been said by leaders of the rebels themselves that they received weapons and training from US forces. If Russia wasn't blocking efforts the US would have intervened a long while back and installed some friendly puppet, no matter about rights or lives lost. I wonder what you read.

humbert

God, I hate listening to American professionals talk. They must have dedicated high school classes on how to utilise metaphor to sound like an utter cunt.

moxin

BlurstMonkey wrote: »

It's not at all. The rebels are US backed and trained. It's been said by leaders of the rebels themselves that they received weapons and training from US forces. If Russia wasn't blocking efforts the US would have intervened a long while back and installed some friendly puppet, no matter about rights or lives lost. I wonder what you read.

Eh the poster said Al-Qaeda. There is no evidence that surface-to-air missiles have been given to Al-Qaeda.

Btw Al-Qaeda are a tiny minority of the rebels.

BlurstMonkey

moxin wrote: »

Eh the poster said Al-Qaeda. There is no evidence that surface-to-air missiles have been given to Al-Qaeda.

Btw Al-Qaeda are a tiny minority of the rebels.

The poster never said they were, did they? And so you know that Al-Qaeda are involved with the rebels.

moxin

BlurstMonkey wrote: »

The poster never said they were, did they? And so you know that Al-Qaeda are involved with the rebels.

The poster did at post #31

f it hadn't been for Russia and one or two other members of the security council the Americans would have been giving surface-to-air missiles to Al-Qaeda aligned militants in Syria.

Yes as said, a tiny minority are Al-Qaeda affiliated. Remember its a country of population about 24m, a few thousand Al-Qaeda does translate as a generalisation, they are tiny minority of the opposition who number hundreds of thousands of fighters.

BlurstMonkey

"would have been giving"

You might want to read that again. And do you think the rebels fully overthrowing the country would be a good thing? A bunch of warring factions riddled with fanatics and backed by foreign aid. They're going to do better for the country than what was there before? Iraq is worse off now than when Hussein was in power. Saddam Hussein, the lesser evil. What does that say for the United States and its interventionist policy, tell me that.

renegademaster

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

A phone call between a top US diplomat to Europe and the US ambassador to Kiev has been leaked.

In the call the US politicians can be heard plotting about how to deal with the situation in Ukraine, disregarding the roles of Russia and the EU entirely - diplomat Victoria Newland says "**** the EU".

What does everybody think of this? Clearly not good if we're supposed to be allies and they're clearly looking to operate in Ukraine without our input.

after Manning and Snowden there is no such thing as an american ally, only the americans playing all their "partners" to have the upper hand on EVERYTHING!!

moxin

Well, it was a dictator keeping many factions under control through an iron grip for many years. Then demands for democracy and rights as part of the Arab Spring arrive which are brutally repressed. And then rebellion begins and then extremists get in on the act. Syria was gonna fail sooner or later, its how we deal with it thats the crux.

renegademaster

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Yeah I wish America would give up the "World Police" role they seem to have chosen for themselves

each and everyone of us enable american foreign policies by doing damn all to show we won't take it anymore

renegademaster

moxin wrote: »

Fantasy stuff there. Do you read much Daily Mail?

sure it happened on irish soil n all ffs!! putin walked into a room full of G8 war mongers are left the meeting with Syria still off the radar!! go on the vlad :pac:

BlurstMonkey

moxin wrote: »

Well, it was a dictator keeping many factions under control through an iron grip for many years. Then demands for democracy and rights as part of the Arab Spring arrive which are brutally repressed. And then rebellion begins and then extremists get in on the act. Syria was gonna fail sooner or later, its how we deal with it thats the crux.

This cavalier "we" attitude. There is no "we". The Arab Spring is dead, Libya, Egypt, look wherever you want. Disaffected people that have been betrayed and US friendly parties in power.

Demands for democracy? Look at Thailand right now. A US client state. The government fully expecting a coupe from the military in spite of the people voting for them. Have you heard about that? Probably not. Any intervention from the US? No.

Syria was stable. The US doesn't want the region stable. It's as simple as that. When it's unstable it's open to abuse.

There was nothing stopping Syria from transforming gradually and progressively. That's the kind of thing that happens naturally to a society when it's not being sanctioned, bombed and flooded with terrorist elements that are being armed to the teeth.

The biggest opposition to democracy in the world is the United States. It's why they bombed Vietnam, a country with a socialist government supported by its people, that's a bad example for everyone else. Bomb it to hell.

moxin

We as in the world not deciding what the Syrian people want to do for themselves.!

Syria was stable like Iraq under a brutal dictator. The Arab Spring came to Syria at the same time it was sweeping the Middle East. Its the murderous brutality by Assad of civilian protesters that made it horrific and hence the descent into civil war. Assad had promised reform 10 yrs earlier but failed to deliver.

BlurstMonkey

moxin wrote: »

We as in the world not deciding what the Syrian people want to do for themselves.!

Syria was stable like Iraq under a brutal dictator. The Arab Spring came to Syria at the same time it was sweeping the Middle East. Its the murderous brutality by Assad of civilian protesters that made it horrific and hence the descent into civil war. Assad had promised reform 10 yrs earlier but failed to deliver.

You don't read passed mainstream newspaper headlines, do you? Just keep buying what you're being sold, it's no loss to me.

moxin

BlurstMonkey wrote: »

You don't read passed mainstream newspaper headlines, do you? Just keep buying what you're being sold, it's no loss to me.

What newspapers should I read?

BlurstMonkey

moxin wrote: »

What newspapers should I read?

Well I'm not trying to sound obnoxious, some books would be a decent start. Pick up what you can on areas that interest you. Getting even a half cooked understanding of the real workings of things means having some better idea as to how you might interpret what you read in print. With articles it's all very hand picked and carefully phrased, with plenty of omittance and then some plain lies. A lot more reality is allowed to make it into books than papers.
Independent journalism can be scarce on the ground.

If you were interested in say Israel, Palestine and that whole thing then seemingly there's a very good book out recently by a guy called Max Blumenthal, called Goliath. I haven't read it yet but it's on my list.

If you're looking for a general dose of reality then Noam Chomsky has a lot of stuff that's all very accessible, reasonable and thorough. There's very little arguing with what he has to say, he's reviled by some for good reason, he speaks a lot of truth. If nothing else he's an exceptional researcher, and he speaks with objectivity so maybe that would be a good place to start.

In general newspapers aren't worth wiping your ass with save for reading between the lines.

I love the Yanks sometimes.

She's dead right.

F*ck the EU :pac:

BofaDeezNuhtz

BlurstMonkey wrote: »

Well I'm not trying to sound obnoxious, some books would be a decent start. Pick up what you can on areas that interest you. Getting even a half cooked understanding of the real workings of things means having some better idea as to how you might interpret what you read in print. With articles it's all very hand picked and carefully phrased, with plenty of omittance and then some plain lies. A lot more reality is allowed to make it into books than papers.
Independent journalism can be scarce on the ground.

If you were interested in say Israel, Palestine and that whole thing then seemingly there's a very good book out recently by a guy called Max Blumenthal, called Goliath. I haven't read it yet but it's on my list.

If you're looking for a general dose of reality then Noam Chomsky has a lot of stuff that's all very accessible, reasonable and thorough. There's very little arguing with what he has to say, he's reviled by some for good reason, he speaks a lot of truth. If nothing else he's an exceptional researcher, and he speaks with objectivity so maybe that would be a good place to start.

In general newspapers aren't worth wiping your ass with save for reading between the lines.

Bang on