EV Sales 2014

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

Presumably more on-street chargers are on the way.

All the time.

Just the Euro and US car maker decision to adopt the CCS charging standard has severely slowed down roll out of fast chargers.

Presumably, there will be ChaDeMo and CCS port on each new fast charger ?

corkgsxr

Deleted User wrote: »

All the time.

Just the Euro and US car maker decision to adopt the CCS charging standard has severely slowed down roll out of fast chargers.

Presumably, there will be ChaDeMo and CCS port on each new fast charger ?

Only reason theres any at all in cork is the esb cars.

corkgsxr

corkgsxr wrote: »

Only reason theres any at all in cork is the esb cars.

There's only one fast charger in Kildare, 0 in Wicklow and 0 from Dublin to Waterford.

corkgsxr

corkgsxr wrote: »

Iv one more reason I couldn't have one. I couldn't charge it. I now live in town with on street parking. You'd have to run leads across the street. Same with apartment blocks. Nowhere to charge. And no way you can run leads even across a footpath directly across from your house. You'd be getting sued every second week.

So only option would be sit and wit at a charger. But theres feck all chargers in cork. I know of 2

Charging is an issue, especially if you have to pay and display.

Fast charging would probably suit you more, though if that's your main way of charging it might not be too good long term.

This is where induction would work but it would be more costly and a bit more inefficient.

corkgsxr

Deleted User wrote: »

There's only one fast charger in Kildare, 0 in Wicklow and 0 from Dublin to Waterford.

I dont know if there fast or not. I just see the chargers about. But there for the esb cars only afaik.

Deleted User wrote: »

Charging is an issue, especially if you have to pay and display.

Fast charging would probably suit you more, though if that's your main way of charging it might not be too good long term.

This is where induction would work but it would be more costly and a bit more inefficient.

Where I live now i have no way to charge from house as parking is opposite side of street to the house. Driving to a charger would be only way. And cant charge at work as im working in people's houses.

In theory a electric van would be great as I do about 300 miles a week in city and suburbs.

corkgsxr

corkgsxr wrote: »

I dont know if there fast or not. I just see the chargers about. But there for the esb cars only afaik.

Yeah I see 3 fast chargers in Cork City, Fast chargers are Blue.

corkgsxr wrote: »

Where I live now i have no way to charge from house as parking is opposite side of street to the house. Driving to a charger would be only way. And cant charge at work as im working in people's houses.

In theory a electric van would be great as I do about 300 miles a week in city and suburbs.

Yeah I think Nissan are releasing the E NV200 van this year.

wotswattage

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Slightly OT, but why can't a manufacturer build a "normal" looking EV? I like the concept behind it and if my daily commute suited one, I'd seriously consider it.

However the actual look of the car puts me right off - it's not only the Leaf, but the Fluence EV is awful looking, the I3 is no better, and the Mitsubishi isn't exactly a looker.

Why not make an EV that looks like a Seat Leon, or a Mazda 3? Many people (me included) don't want to stand out from the crowd, which is what these current EV's will cause. I genuinely think this is holding many people back from purchasing an EV.

Not having a go at you personally here, but that seems to be the latest get out of jail free retort from the general motoring population disliking the idea of an EV.

First it was 'sure the range would never do me...' Turns out the ranges are sufficient for the vast majority of the population.
Then 'Sure the battery will be useless after a year...' Turns out the batteries hold up ok.
Now its that they are 'quare looking yokes'...

The Leaf isn't that different/funny looking. It's certainly more conservative than some of Citroen's current DS offerings. Personally I don't really love the styling of it, but it's no less attractive than the likes of a Focus/Golf/Hyundai etc. There are lots of other horrendously ugly cars out there which don't get the abuse a Leaf does..


I do agree that manufacturers would be making life easier for themselves in Ireland if they offered what the Irish want - A Jetta ev:P

What will sell EV's in Ireland this year will be billboards explaining in big letters:


Cost per 10000km (or a years driving for the average Irish motorist) incl. tax etc
Nissan Leaf/other EV: €x
Rival diesel hatchback: €y

*I don't know the figures maybe someone who has done the maths can post up the cost difference

galwaytt

wotswattage wrote: »

Not having a go at you personally here, but that seems to be the latest get out of jail free retort from the general motoring population disliking the idea of an EV.

First it was 'sure the range would never do me...' Turns out the ranges are sufficient for the vast majority of the population.
Then 'Sure the battery will be useless after a year...' Turns out the batteries hold up ok.
Now its that they are 'quare looking yokes'...

The Leaf isn't that different/funny looking. It's certainly more conservative than some of Citroen's current DS offerings. Personally I don't really love the styling of it, but it's no less attractive than the likes of a Focus/Golf/Hyundai etc. There are lots of other horrendously ugly cars out there which don't get the abuse a Leaf does..


I do agree that manufacturers would be making life easier for themselves in Ireland if they offered what the Irish want - A Jetta ev:P

What will sell EV's in Ireland this year will be billboards explaining in big letters:


Cost per 10000km (or a years driving for the average Irish motorist) incl. tax etc
Nissan Leaf/other EV: €x
Rival diesel hatchback: €y

*I don't know the figures maybe someone who has done the maths can post up the cost difference

You're right the Leaf is more conservative than many of the Citroën's out there. But it's also ugly. The Citroën's are both modern and not ugly. Why EV brings the ugly stick escapes me. Too much time watching Bladerunner I suspect

Don't forget the other fuel for your comparison : petrol. Cheaper to build, buy, finance, and close to diesel in economy. ..

galwaytt

galwaytt wrote: »

You're right the Leaf is more conservative than many of the Citroën's out there. But it's also ugly. The Citroën's are both modern and not ugly. Why EV brings the ugly stick escapes me. Too much time watching Bladerunner I suspect

Don't forget the other fuel for your comparison : petrol. Cheaper to build, buy, finance, and close to diesel in economy. ..

Ah come on now, the Leaf MK 1.5 interior is a step up from my MK II Prius ! And the outside isn't as ugly as the MK II either, however the MK III outside isn't bad at all.

TBH do people actually think the Golf is a nice looking car ?

Drummerboy08

Its not about being good looking to a degree. The Golf is conservative which suits most people, whereas the Leaf is very out there, which many people dont like.

wotswattage

wotswattage wrote: »

Cost per 10000km (or a years driving for the average Irish motorist) incl. tax etc
Nissan Leaf/other EV: €x
Rival diesel hatchback: €y[/B][/SIZE]

*I don't know the figures maybe someone who has done the maths can post up the cost difference

In Ireland the Leaf holds it's value better than all but the premium brands of the same calibre that is, Golf/A3. but not by much less.

The Leaf has an average efficiency of about 29 kwh/100 miles. (for the MK 1.5)

18,000 miles /100 = 180 charges required x 29 = 5,220 Kwh per 18,000 miles.

x night leccy @ 9 c/kwh = 469.8 Euro's to drive 18,000 miles.

This is (EXCLUDING) free public charging and savings on Maintenance and motor tax.

The cost at 50 mpg per tank diesel needs 1,636 litres of diesel x 1.46 = €2,388

The cost at 40 mpg would = € 2,985.

Sesshoumaru

Matt Simis wrote: »

At numbers so low that the chart and any projected trend is statistically irrelevant. Better to look at the UK numbers year on year and also take into account any seasonality effects such as general market gain or losses by all brands.

I think it's interesting that in the UK they also saw much stronger sales in January.

http://www.hybridcars.com/leaf-still-leads-uk-ev-sales/

January was another record-breaking month for the Nissan Leaf, maintaining its market-leader status in the UK.

Figures released by the UK Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) show Nissan managed to sell 230 units of the Leaf during January 2014.

That total was more than 1,000 percent up when compared to sales in January 2013 according to SMMT sales numbers and Nissan said they clearly show the Leaf continues to enjoy strong upward sales momentum in the face of growing competition.

I find the perception of EVs is gradually changing and on that note I came across this story the other day.

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/2/12/Koenigsegg-Buys-a-Tesla-Model-S-Says-No-Better-Car-for-the-Money-7718623/

Hypercar maker is an EV lover. 18 months is a long time to wait for a car. But that didn’t deter Koenigsegg founder Christian von Koenigsegg from putting down an order for a Tesla Model S, which the Swedish hypercar builder took delivery of last October. Speaking at an electric car conference in Helsinborg, Sweden, Koenigsegg said that there is no better car than the Model S in its price range, claiming it to be the best sports sedan on the market with better acceleration and handling than the BMW M5 while also being more fun to drive. - See more at: http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/2/12/Koenigsegg-Buys-a-Tesla-Model-S-Says-No-Better-Car-for-the-Money-7718623/#sthash.GJR3DTIJ.dpuf

I'm sure there would be plenty of people who would disagree with him

Sesshoumaru

Deleted User wrote: »

In Ireland the Leaf holds it's value better than all but the premium brands of the same calibre that is, Golf/A3. but not by much less.

I actually had a call from the sales guy who sold me my Leaf 3 years ago. He was wondering was I interested in trading up as there was strong demand for secondhand models. He told me last month was great and he had sold 5 of them himself. I didn't tell him a lot of people were also bringing them in from the UK

naughtysmurf

I'd be interested in a Leaf / other EV, the main things holding me back are

1. If I buy now I believe the range could increase considerably over the next few years leaving me with a shorter range car that nobody will want second hand

2. I don't think I do enough milage to justify one, <10K / pa albeit mostly short journeys, so the savings are not huge over the tried & tested

3. I'm not exactly sure what would happen say after four years and some battery issues start to crop up, will this = €€€€€??

Sesshoumaru

naughtysmurf wrote: »

I'd be interested in a Leaf / other EV, the main things holding me back are

1. If I buy now I believe the range could increase considerably over the next few years leaving me with a shorter range car that nobody will want second hand

2. I don't think I do enough milage to justify one, <10K / pa albeit mostly short journeys, so the savings are not huge over the tried & tested

3. I'm not exactly sure what would happen say after four years and some battery issues start to crop up, will this = €€€€€??

There is a perception out there that the battery in an EV is like an AA battery you buy in a newsagent, useless once its spent. It's very much a valuable commodity! I'd suggest checking out this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057145444

I do think the technology is progressing fast and wouldn't be surprised if the 2016 Leaf had 50% to 100% more battery capacity than the current model. Nissan have recently tested a Leaf with a 48Kwh battery pack in Spain. You can't always keep holding off for the next model though

MuppetCheck

I wonder has the ESB been registering more cars for the scheme they are offering and that might be bumping up the figures? I have signed up, mainly to reduce wear and tear on my own car for a while.

I'd agree with the comments regarding the looks of all bar the Tesla. They are not good looking cars - the Leaf, the I3, the Prius. You'll never see one pass on the street and say to yourself "that's alright" in the same way you would the new Mazda 3 for example. I always think "I'd pay the higher running costs not to drive it". I think the looks are the majr stumbling block here for a lot of people.

Given the choice of an e-Golf or Leaf it would have to be the Golf. It looks normal rather than the love child of an Almera and a Fiat Multipla.

naughtysmurf

naughtysmurf wrote: »

I'd be interested in a Leaf / other EV, the main things holding me back are

1. If I buy now I believe the range could increase considerably over the next few years leaving me with a shorter range car that nobody will want second hand

2. I don't think I do enough milage to justify one, <10K / pa albeit mostly short journeys, so the savings are not huge over the tried & tested

3. I'm not exactly sure what would happen say after four years and some battery issues start to crop up, will this = €€€€€??

1 Don't count on "considerable" range increases. At best Leaf II may only provide a reall 100 miles range, ie with a 30 kwh battery, 30 usable kwh that is.

Niossan have said theya re looking into offering battery options where you choose say, 30kwh or 40 or the current 24 probably will end up being standard.

Different battery options make complete sense as you pay only for the range you need and then use the fast charging for the few times a year you may need it.

Having said that as range deteriorates over time and miles, having a bigger battery means you'll get more total miles until end of life which is the industry standard (int he battery world) of 70%.

It just so happens that 70% in a leaf may give only 50 max miles where as in a Tesla Model S 85 kwh might still be 200 miles range.

2 buying new is never justifiable when saving money is the issue, however if the leaf falls into the same price range as any other car you may buy then it does make sense.

3 as with all cars, you may or may not have issues, battery degradation is a certain one. But as batteries get much larger it won't be nearly as much of an issue as you won't notice it as much as in the Leaf with 80 miles range from new V a car that has 250 miles range

Sesshoumaru

MuppetCheck wrote: »

I wonder has the ESB been registering more cars for the scheme they are offering and that might be bumping up the figures? I have signed up, mainly to reduce wear and tear on my own car for a while.

I'd agree with the comments regarding the looks of all bar the Tesla. They are not good looking cars - the Leaf, the I3, the Prius. You'll never see one pass on the street and say to yourself "that's alright" in the same way you would the new Mazda 3 for example. I always think "I'd pay the higher running costs not to drive it". I think the looks are the majr stumbling block here for a lot of people.

Given the choice of an e-Golf or Leaf it would have to be the Golf. It looks normal rather than the love child of an Almera and a Fiat Multipla.

Last years 'ecar ambassadors' didn't get to keep their cars, so I imagine the only cars bought by the ESB might be a BMW i3. The sales figures I quoted are for one model of car only, the Nissan Leaf.

MuppetCheck

MuppetCheck wrote: »

I wonder has the ESB been registering more cars for the scheme they are offering and that might be bumping up the figures? I have signed up, mainly to reduce wear and tear on my own car for a while.

I'd agree with the comments regarding the looks of all bar the Tesla. They are not good looking cars - the Leaf, the I3, the Prius. You'll never see one pass on the street and say to yourself "that's alright" in the same way you would the new Mazda 3 for example. I always think "I'd pay the higher running costs not to drive it". I think the looks are the majr stumbling block here for a lot of people.

Given the choice of an e-Golf or Leaf it would have to be the Golf. It looks normal rather than the love child of an Almera and a Fiat Multipla.

Yeah but I wouldn't pay a lot extra for the E-Golf considering there is no range improvements. The Golf is no looker either.

The ESB registering new cars is a good question, but I doubt they would be buying new ones TBH, if they were I doubt it would be 50.

The Prius MK III isn't ugly, It's better looking than a Golf, maybe not from the inside.

MuppetCheck

Deleted User wrote: »

The Prius MK III isn't ugly, It's better looking than a Golf, maybe not from the inside.

The Golf doesn't push any boundaries but it's plain Jane styling is classier and more pleasing on the eye than the Prius.

I'd drive this:


Over this


And the reason it purely because there isn't an angle you can look at the prius from without it looking odd. It's a borderline ugly car. You can see from the Golf (and the UP) EV that it looks almost identical to the ICE version. It offers a similar tech without you having to wince should you look back at what you've just parked.

HandsomeDan

MuppetCheck wrote: »

The Golf doesn't push any boundaries but it's plain Jane styling is classier and more pleasing on the eye than the Prius.

I'd drive this:


Over this


And the reason it purely because there isn't an angle you can look at the prius from without it looking odd. It's a borderline ugly car. You can see from the Golf (and the UP) EV that it looks almost identical to the ICE version. It offers a similar tech without you having to wince should you look back at what you've just parked.

MK III prius is pretty cool looking. The golf looks like a converted van.

BMJD

I would (and did) choose a Prius over that Golf every time.

MuppetCheck

BMJD wrote: »

I would (and did) choose a Prius over that Golf every time.

Based on looks or other factors?

I'm only comparing the looks here - nothing else.

BMJD

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Based on looks or other factors?

I'm only comparing the looks here - nothing else.

Looks, reliability, practicality, running costs, etc.

That's comparing a diesel, dunno about the e-Golf yet since it's not out.

naughtysmurf

Do we know what it would cost to replace a faulty battery pack on an out of warranty 4yr old Leaf?

September1

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I actually had a call from the sales guy who sold me my Leaf 3 years ago. He was wondering was I interested in trading up as there was strong demand for secondhand models. He told me last month was great and he had sold 5 of them himself. I didn't tell him a lot of people were also bringing them in from the UK

That is something that really is interesting to see how it develops. Every single car arrives at time where selling for parts is better option, but with EVs and their massive batteries it seems that this time could be sooner. In other thread on after life I did some calculations and it seems that selling LEAF for less that 3-5k depending on battery status does not make financial sense, yet most of cars are still tradable in those price ranges.

Sesshoumaru

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Do we know what it would cost to replace a faulty battery pack on an out of warranty 4yr old Leaf?

The battery pack has a 5 year warranty across Europe. It guarantees a minimum of 9 out 12 bars on the battery capacity meter. I think in your example you would be getting a new battery pack under warranty. The pack itself is made up of 48 modules, which can be replaced individually. So a repair job might only involve replacing on or more modules from the pack.

Our Leaf still shows 12 out of 12 bars on dashboard capacity meter, that's after about 62,000 kilometers now. We haven't noticed any real drop in range compared to when it was new either.

corkgsxr

naughtysmurf wrote: »

I'd be interested in a Leaf / other EV, the main things holding me back are

1. If I buy now I believe the range could increase considerably over the next few years leaving me with a shorter range car that nobody will want second hand

2. I don't think I do enough milage to justify one, <10K / pa albeit mostly short journeys, so the savings are not huge over the tried & tested

3. I'm not exactly sure what would happen say after four years and some battery issues start to crop up, will this = €€€€€??

I wouldn't expect anything but minor increases that could just be playing with figures. They've been saying it's round the corner for years.

In fairness they do seem to be holding value

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

There is a perception out there that the battery in an EV is like an AA battery you buy in a newsagent, useless once its spent. It's very much a valuable commodity! I'd suggest checking out this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057145444

I do think the technology is progressing fast and wouldn't be surprised if the 2016 Leaf had 50% to 100% more battery capacity than the current model. Nissan have recently tested a Leaf with a 48Kwh battery pack in Spain. You can't always keep holding off for the next model though

Ya thats the dream. Without a major breakthrough there will be no significant increase in range. The current battery tech seems to have peaked.

toadfly

I really like the look of the Prius, wouldn't call it an ugly car. I just put a deposit on a 2012 Leaf, not the best looking car but it will be worth it to me for the savings.

noelf

BMJD wrote: »

I would (and did) choose a Prius over that Golf every time.

I would (and did) choose a golf bluemotion over a prius everytime. Did you get your recall notice yet two million prius are been recalled from 2009 to present for components in transmission overheating causing car to stop