My fuel consumption problem 2nd thread

Axidium

Hello,

This thread is a continuation from my last thread which was closed due to members arguing over insignificant issues.

So, in my last thread I said that my 2011 Opel Astra 1.3 CDTI EcoFlex was using more fuel than I expected it to. I used to calculate how much MPG I use by filling up a certain amount and driving until the reserve light comes on. However, many members suggested that this was an inaccurate way of measuring fuel consumption, so I decided to do what others suggested.

So what I did was:

NOTE: I drove the car more carefully than usual. I literally changed gear at 2000rpm. I wouldn't usually be this careful when driving. I used the motorway once to get to the airport to drop of a sibling and the rest was usual suburban driving. No driving in town whatsoever.

1. Filled my car to the top (76€ got 52.7l of diesel at a Topaz)

2. Reset my trip computer and drove 300 kilometers. I literally drove around aimlessly for the last 15km or so to get to 300 kilometers.

3. I reached 300.1km on the trip computer, pulled up to the exact same pump at the same Topaz that I filled up a week or so ago. (Not sure the price of diesel last time but this time it was 1.46€/l)

4. I filled the car to the top again and this time it filled up by 21.40 litres of diesel. Which is 31.44€

5. I went on http://www.mpg-calculator.co.uk/ and entered the stats and got 39.51MPG.

That's maybe 2MPG off of what my old method of calculation showed.

Nonetheless, in my honest opinion I think that is dreadful for a 1.3 diesel hatchback driven extremely carefully.

Your opinions/questions please?

I have a couple of questions too:

1. Does changing oil improve fuel consumption, and if so, by how much?

2. What exactly is a Diesel Particle Filter? It came up today on my screen in the car saying "Diesel Particle Filter Full, keep driving". After I drove for 10 mins and switched the car off, it was gone when I turned it back on again.

NOTE: Please no smart/sarcastic comments that got the last thread closed. Or things like "Google it". I know Google can answer many questions but I prefer answers from people who live in the same country as myself.

Few pics:

Jesus.

Axidium wrote: »

That's maybe 2MPG off of what my old method of calculation showed.

Remember in the last thread I predicted you'd get two less than your trip com reading?

In answer to your question, yes that is a very poor return for a modern diesel, assuming your driving is mixed as opposed to urban/City. If its closer to the latter then its actually very good!

Honestly mate, mixed driving with a car like that you should be getting 50's.

Ded_Zebra

The diesel partical filter is a device fitted to the exhaust that burns off the particles in the exhaust to make the car less smokey. When driven a lot at low RPM the filter doesn't get fully up to temperature and cannot burn off the particles, this is probably why it gave you an error.

As for your fuel consumption, I would expect it to be better than that, What type of driving do you do? Mostly town driving at <60Km/h? In my experience (and this is a very rough rule of thumb) most cars are met efficient at about 90Km/h.

Having a car serviced on time and properly will definitely help fuel economy.

Foxhole Norman

You're doing the wrong type of driving to have peak mpg. If your DPF is blocked then you're not running the engine as it should be, i.e high mileage/motorway. The problem is because you are doing such short trips the engine does not get up to the proper operating temperature so cannot return good mpg.

To properly clear the DPF give it a good long blast on the motorway at a high RPM.

Axidium

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

The diesel partical filter is a device fitted to the exhaust that burns off the particles in the exhaust to make the car less smokey. When driven a lot at low RPM the filter doesn't get fully up to temperature and cannot burn off the particles, this is probably why it gave you an error.

As for your fuel consumption, I would expect it to be better than that, What type of driving do you do? Mostly town driving at <60Km/h? In my experience (and this is a very rough rule of thumb) most cars are met efficient at about 90Km/h.

Having a car serviced on time and properly will definitely help fuel economy.

In the past month or so I mostly drive around the suburb I live in. Just normal driving that includes traffic lights, normal traffic nothing too heavy. I have barely driven on the motorway in the last month, however, that will change next week as I will start college.

To be honest what scares me most is the fact that I hear from people who drive 1.9/2.0 litres diesel cars averaging 45MPG and my car barely getting 40MPG.

Axidium

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

You're doing the wrong type of driving to have peak mpg. If your DPF is blocked then you're not running the engine as it should be, i.e high mileage/motorway. The problem is because you are doing such short trips the engine does not get up to the proper operating temperature so cannot return good mpg.

To properly clear the DPF give it a good long blast on the motorway at a high RPM.

You are correct in the fact that I do a lot of short trips.

What do you and everyone else suggest that I do to improve MPG?

MuppetCheck

Your dpf giving a warning like that means you really shouldn't have bought a diesel for a start. Your driving type means no car is going to be giving you great mpg although to be fair that's not all that bad considering. I'm only averaging 46 with longer spins in a 2 litre one.

When this happens you might be able to spot a few tell tale signs - idle revs higher, rear screen comes on automatically. It needs to be over 2k rpm for about twenty minutes to clear it, and only will if it needs it. One blast won't do it if it has recently performed a regeneration. Regular longer runs should mean it's OK.

If you had the regeneration during your test it will have affected mpg significantly over half a tanks measurement - it does in my GTC anyway.

BMJD

Hi, Capt. Obvious here, you shoulda bought a petrol.

Foxhole Norman

Axidium wrote: »

You are correct in the fact that I do a lot of short trips.

What do you and everyone else suggest that I do to improve MPG?

It'll really just come down to the type of driving you do. 40 MPG sounds about right to me for a 1.3 diesel around the city/suburbs. That should pick up to around 50/55 once you start doing larger motorway trips.

When I was driving my mom's 1.5DCi Fluence I only got around 7/7.5l/100km which is about 30-35 MPG when I was around the city/suburbs. Once I got out and was cruising at 100/120 it would go up to 4.5/5l/100km or 50 ish MPG.

bazz26

It is also plausible that the actual DPF additive tank needs to be refilled. This additive is called Eloys. I think it is only available from dealers and best get them to fill it as Eloys is very damaging to human skin. If this tank is not refilled then DPF regeneration will not take place, your DPF will eventually block and either need to be removed and cleaned or replaced altogether. A blocked DPF will also cause performance issues with the car and poor fuel economy.

Axidium

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Your dpf giving a warning like that means you really shouldn't have bought a diesel for a start. Your driving type means no car is going to be giving you great mpg although to be fair that's not all that bad considering. I'm only averaging 46 with longer spins in a 2 litre one.

When this happens you might be able to spot a few tell tale signs - idle revs higher, rear screen comes on automatically. It needs to be over 2k rpm for about twenty minutes to clear it, and only will if it needs it. One blast won't do it if it has recently performed a regeneration. Regular longer runs should mean it's OK.

If you had the regeneration during your test it will have affected mpg significantly over half a tanks measurement - it does in my GTC anyway.

What do you mean by rear screen? Also, the warning went away. Not sure if it's sorted or not but it's gone. What exactly is a regeneration test?

Ded_Zebra

Axidium wrote: »

In the past month or so I mostly drive around the suburb I live in. Just normal driving that includes traffic lights, normal traffic nothing too heavy. I have barely driven on the motorway in the last month, however, that will change next week as I will start college.

To be honest what scares me most is the fact that I hear from people who drive 1.9/2.0 litres diesel cars averaging 45MPG and my car barely getting 40MPG.

So mostly about 50km/h so? That would make your fuel consumption fairly high.

MadLad ages ago posted a very interesting link about an American who got into Hypermiling. I can't find it now but it was a good read. I think he was driving a honda. Maybe MadLad will link it again

sawdoubters

have the proper air pressure in your tires,empty the boot of any weight


you don't want to rev the engine as soon as it goes up change gears,is that driving in town or country


http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/vauxhall/astra-sports-tourer-2010/13-cdti-ecoflex

from a review the car is too heavy for the small engine

MuppetCheck

Axidium wrote: »

What do you mean by rear screen? Also, the warning went away. Not sure if it's sorted or not but it's gone. What exactly is a regeneration test?

Rear screen heating elements to increase engine load. Regeneration is the burning off of the soot in the dpf. Search YouTube on how it works. Might be useful to watch some of them to help you.

Axidium

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

So mostly about 50km/h so? That would make your fuel consumption fairly high.

MadLad ages ago posted a very interesting link about an American who got into Hypermiling. I can't find it now but it was a good read. I think he was driving a honda. Maybe MadLad will link it again

Yeah mostly 50, 60, 70 km/h. So you're saying that it's normal what my car wastes based on that average speed?

Axidium

BMJD wrote: »

Hi, Capt. Obvious here, you shoulda bought a petrol.

The whole point of me buying a diesel is to have better MPG than a petrol. In all honestly, I don't really like diesel. I'd have a petrol car any day but the fact that they consume more fuel is what ruins it.

bazz26

Also if you are doing a lot of short trips then your diesel engine is not going to warm up to optimal temperature, this is more than likely what is contributing to poor fuel economy. A diesel engine needs to take about 10 to 15 mins of driving to warm up.

Foxhole Norman

Axidium wrote: »

The whole point of me buying a diesel is to have better MPG than a petrol. In all honestly, I don't really like diesel. I'd have a petrol car any day but the fact that they consume more fuel is what ruins it.

My 1.0 petrol Yaris does better around town than my moms diesel Fluence and dads diesel Mondeo..........Diesel isn't always cheaper/more efficient.

dgt

Axidium wrote: »

The whole point of me buying a diesel is to have better MPG than a petrol. In all honestly, I don't really like diesel. I'd have a petrol car any day but the fact that they consume more fuel is what ruins it.

If you are doing mostly short trips then petrol is the better option.... Your mpg sounds about right for city stop start driving with that engine.

Look at how often you would be doing long trips and judge whether you need a diesel car or not

bazz26

Axidium wrote: »

The whole point of me buying a diesel is to have better MPG than a petrol. In all honestly, I don't really like diesel. I'd have a petrol car any day but the fact that they consume more fuel is what ruins it.

But if you don't use it the way it was designed for then you will not get the expected end result. A cold diesel engine doing short journeys will almost be a poor on fuel as a petrol engine. Diesels come into their own regarding efficiency on long journey, not short stop/start journeys.

Axidium

sawdoubters wrote: »

have the proper air pressure in your tires,empty the boot of any weight


you don't want to rev the engine as soon as it goes up change gears,is that driving in town or country


http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/vauxhall/astra-sports-tourer-2010/13-cdti-ecoflex

from a review the car is too heavy for the small engine

Tyres are at 32psi, boot only has small size spare wheel. I do not understand the middle part of your reply. I drive 90% of the time in a suburban area. The link you attached shows an estate Astra, which is usually heavier than what I have (hatchback). Although, I do agree that the engine might be too small for the weight of the car.

Axidium

bazz26 wrote: »

Also if you are doing a lot of short trips then your diesel engine is not going to warm up to optimal temperature, this is more than likely what is contributing to poor fuel economy. A diesel engine needs to take about 10 to 15 mins of driving to warm up.

I do a lot of short trips indeed. However, the engine is usually at the middle needle by the time I turn the car off.

For Forks Sake

Axidium wrote: »

The whole point of me buying a diesel is to have better MPG than a petrol. In all honestly, I don't really like diesel. I'd have a petrol car any day but the fact that they consume more fuel is what ruins it.

Not for the sort of driving you're doing it won't. If you think any diesel is going to get 60+ mpg on short urban journies you're badly mistaken.

Axidium

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

My 1.0 petrol Yaris does better around town than my moms diesel Fluence and dads diesel Mondeo..........Diesel isn't always cheaper/more efficient.

I understand that but you drive a car that's as light as a feather in car terms, and it's a 1.0 liter engine.

bazz26

Axidium wrote: »

I do a lot of short trips indeed. However, the engine is usually at the middle needle by the time I turn the car off.

I bet you if you took it for a good spin with very little stop/starting you would see the improvement in fuel economy.

challengemaster

People who get 45+MPG from diesels are doing very long trips, at much more than urban speeds, with relatively no stopping.

Start-stop driving kills MPG.

Also you seem to be obsessed with the idea of changing up gears as soon as possible. The higher the gear does NOT always mean less fuel consumption, particularly true for urban driving. If you're in too high a gear and out of the torque band (1750-3250 rpm) your car is using its fuel less efficiently. I'd say by changing up early you may have actually slightly worsened your mpg.

Be quite happy you're getting up on 40mpg. Your car is fine. Take it for a long motorway drive and then measure the MPG.

Foxhole Norman

Axidium wrote: »

I understand that but you drive a car that's as light as a feather in car terms, and it's a 1.0 liter engine.

Yes but the point is that a diesel isn't always more fuel effiecient. The weight is not that much of a factor as i tend to carry at least two others almost all the time with a constantly full boot.

Axidium

dgt wrote: »

If you are doing mostly short trips then petrol is the better option.... Your mpg sounds about right for city stop start driving with that engine.

Look at how often you would be doing long trips and judge whether you need a diesel car or not

I had a 1.8 petrol and my god that was terrible. Also by city driving I hope you mean suburban because by stop start I mean from traffic light to traffic light.

Judging that is a bit late considering I bought the car 3 months ago.

Axidium

bazz26 wrote: »

I bet you if you took it for a good spin with very little stop/starting you would see the improvement in fuel economy.

No doubt about that. But the point is I do not need to do them journeys. My driving includes suburban and some motorway.

challengemaster

Axidium wrote: »

No doubt about that. But the point is I do not need to do them journeys. My driving includes suburban and some motorway.

Well then you've made a mistake buying a diesel, one which in the long run will lead to incredibly costly mechanical issues which you're already seeing (DPF issues).

Go sell it and buy a petrol instead.

Axidium

challengemaster wrote: »

People who get 45+MPG from diesels are doing very long trips, at much more than urban speeds, with relatively no stopping.

Start-stop driving kills MPG.

Also you seem to be obsessed with the idea of changing up gears as soon as possible. The higher the gear does NOT always mean less fuel consumption, particularly true for urban driving. If you're in too high a gear and out of the torque band (1750-3250 rpm) your car is using its fuel less efficiently. I'd say by changing up early you may have actually slightly worsened your mpg.

Be quite happy you're getting up on 40mpg. Your car is fine. Take it for a long motorway drive and then measure the MPG.

I am not obsessed about changing to higher gears ASAP. However, what I said is that I change gears at 2k rpm, not to get to a higher gear but not to rev it more.

mlmcelligott

I have a 1.6d Volvo with a dpf also. I was having low mpg problems too. The Volvo mechanic told me to drive it to Portlaoise and back holding the engine above 3k rpm for at least a half hour. I couldn't believe the performance increase after I did it. My dpf must have been partially blocked from city driving and by getting it red hot it cleaned itself out.

dgt

Axidium wrote: »

I had a 1.8 petrol and my god that was terrible. Also by city driving I hope you mean suburban because by stop start I mean from traffic light to traffic light.

Judging that is a bit late considering I bought the car 3 months ago.

Currently drive a 2litre petrol on a 70 mile round trip everyday. Its fine on the open roads but the mpg just sinks the minute I get into the city. I can damn nearly reach your mpg with my car on a clear open road!

By city driving I'm assuming like you said between lights, rush hour gridlock in traffic etc. That kills fuel economy

Best to go for a long run and see if the mpg's improve, my money is on it will

Axidium

challengemaster wrote: »

Well then you've made a mistake buying a diesel, one which in the long run will lead to incredibly costly mechanical issues which you're already seeing (DPF issues).

Go sell it and buy a petrol instead.

Like I said before, not sure if you're purposely avoiding it or not, but I had a 1.8 litre petrol car before this diesel and thank you very much but I am not willing to spend 70€ a week on petrol. My dads friend bought a 1.4 petrol Passat. Month later begged the dealer to replace it with a diesel.

Jesus.

Look Axidium, I know the last thread was closed because people - including myself - went too hard on you but I'm afraid you've just found out the hard way that spending loads of money to save a little just doesn't work. People in Ireland have been hoodwinked into believing they'd be better off giving up their perfectly sound petrol cars for puny (yet expensive) little diesels. Its all bullsh*t at the end of the day and unfortunately you're paying the price.

I'm sorry but that's just the long and short of it really.

Foxhole Norman

Sell the Astra, buy a petrol city car like an UP, CitiGo, Mii, Panda, Clio, Corsa etc. Profit.

Axidium

mlmcelligott wrote: »

I have a 1.6d Volvo with a dpf also. I was having low mpg problems too. The Volvo mechanic told me to drive it to Portlaoise and back holding the engine above 3k rpm for at least a half hour. I couldn't believe the performance increase after I did it. My dpf must have been partially blocked from city driving and by getting it red hot it cleaned itself out.

First I will contact my dealer about the DPF issue then I'll try that. Only thing is. How will I know if its fixed or not, the warning and light is gone.

Axidium

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

Sell the Astra, buy a petrol city car like an UP, CitiGo, Mii, Panda, Clio, Corsa etc. Profit.

I am 6ft 4 and I quite honestly I would rather have this MPG than drive any of those.

Foxhole Norman

Axidium wrote: »

I am 6ft 4 and I quite honestly I would rather have this MPG than drive any of those.

And yet you complain about the MPG.

Axidium

Jesus. wrote: »

Look Axidium, I know the last thread was closed because people - including myself - went too hard on you but I'm afraid you've just found out the hard way that spending loads of money to save a little just doesn't work. People in Ireland have been hoodwinked into believing they'd be better off giving up their perfectly sound petrol cars for pokey (yet expensive) little diesels. Its all bullsh*t at the end of the day and unfortunately you're paying the price.

I'm sorry but that's just the long and short of it really.

So you're saying I should of kept my 2002 1.8 petrol Mondeo that cost me 70€ a week on petrol? You're basically saying don't buy diesel, buy petrol, it's more efficient.

Actually what would you do if you had 15k to spend and had an old Mondeo? Keep in mind I want to pay less for fuel.

mlmcelligott

Axidium wrote: »

First I will contact my dealer about the DPF issue then I'll try that. Only thing is. How will I know if its fixed or not, the warning and light is gone.

When you first get in the car take note what revs it takes to drive at say 100 and 120km in top gear. After your long drive then measure it again. If it takes less revs then the engine is under less pressure and breathing better.

Axidium

mlmcelligott wrote: »

When you first get in the car take note what revs it takes to drive at say 100 and 120km in top gear. After your long drive then measure it again. If it takes less revs then the engine is under less pressure and breathing better.

Will do. Does this improve suburban consumption or only consumption when you're travelling at them speeds?

mlmcelligott

Axidium wrote: »

Will do. Does this improve suburban consumption or only consumption when you're travelling at them speeds?

It should improve at all speeds. Also when its good and hot find a nice long hill on the motorway, drop it into 5th (second highest gear) and floor it. That will help burn off any carbon build up in the turbo. You might see some sparks out the back but that's only a good thing.

By doing lots of city driving your slowly choking that engine. Gunk will eventually start to block up the intake manifold and probably the egr too.

Giving the engine a good thrashing every month or so isnt a bad idea.

I've owned diesels all my life and its always the smaller ones that give trouble.

Jesus.

Axidium wrote: »

So you're saying I should of kept my 2002 1.8 petrol Mondeo that cost me 70€ a week on petrol? You're basically saying don't buy diesel, buy petrol, it's more efficient.

Just forget about the few cents you're saving at the pump and the few quid on tax. You spent fifteen thousand euro...FIFTEEN THOUSAND EURO.....because you were fed up with paying 70 euro a week on petrol. Think about that for a second.

You'll be old and grey before that saving pays off.

Axidium wrote: »

Actually what would you do if you had 15k to spend and had an old Mondeo? Keep in mind I want to pay less for fuel.

A holiday to Barbados...maybe some skiing lessons....hair implants

I can think of loads of things. What I wouldn't do is spend it on a car thinking that it will eventually pay.

Sorry mate, I don't want to sound smart but you don't seem to be realising the illogicality of your false economizing here.

challengemaster

Axidium wrote: »

Like I said before, not sure if you're purposely avoiding it or not, but I had a 1.8 litre petrol car before this diesel and thank you very much but I am not willing to spend 70€ a week on petrol. My dads friend bought a 1.4 petrol Passat. Month later begged the dealer to replace it with a diesel.

My dads mothers sisters uncles cousin did blah. Didn't take long for that typical Irish story to appear as justification.

I had been purposely avoiding it because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt you had more sense to use an old 1.8 petrol mondeo as the basis to judge all petrol cars in existence from. Particularly since most new cars in the last few years have been aimed towards city/urban driving.

Your fuel consumption is what it is because of your type of driving. Nobody on here can change that, but you can get a car suited to that type of driving and you seem to be ignoring any advice which suggests you made the wrong choice.

To be blunt - You should have done your homework BEFORE buying, not after.

JohnBoy26

Axidium wrote: »

Like I said before, not sure if you're purposely avoiding it or not, but I had a 1.8 litre petrol car before this diesel and thank you very much but I am not willing to spend 70€ a week on petrol. My dads friend bought a 1.4 petrol Passat. Month later begged the dealer to replace it with a diesel.

But sure you aren't getting a whole lot more out of your small diesel engine. The fact is that things aren't as black & white as your post above, a diesel isn't always more economical than a petrol. you have to look at the bigger picture and factor in the type of driving conditions the car will be subject to, and the potentially higher maintenance bills.

In your case if you are doing short stop start journeys a petrol is the better option. A blocked dpf(diesel particulate filter) or a failed dmf(dual mass flywheel) will wipe out any small savings you've made at the pump.

Unfortunately the masses in this country seem to think they need a diesel for going to the shop and back. They are more interested in spending thousands to upgrade to a diesel to save a few euro on tax and a few cent on diesel instead of looking at the bigger picture to see if a diesel will be beneficial to them or not,

Axidium

Jesus. wrote: »

Just forget about the few cents you're saving at the pump and the few quid on tax. You spent fifteen thousand euro...FIFTEEN THOUSAND EURO.....because you were fed up with paying 70 euro a week on petrol. Think about that for a second.

You'll be old and grey before that saving pays off.



A holiday to Barbados...maybe some skiing lessons....hair implants

I can think of loads of things. What I wouldn't do is spend it on a car thinking that it will eventually pay.

Sorry mate, I don't want to sound smart but you don't seem to be realising the illogicality of your false economizing here.

Mondeo costs:

Tax: 700€
Insurance: 1000€
Petrol: 3120(being generous)

Which is: 4820€ a year.

Astra costs:

13,500€ (Mondeo was valued at 1.5k)

Tax: 190€
Insurance: 800€
Diesel: 1820€

Which is: 2810€

That saves me 2010€ a year.

Astra was 15k, after 3 years it might be 9k. So I've lost 6k in 3 years. But I've saved 2010 a year on expenses.

If my calculations are wrong or the whole thing is wrong please inform me.

Axidium

challengemaster wrote: »

My dads mothers sisters uncles cousin did blah. Didn't take long for that typical Irish story to appear as justification.

I had been purposely avoiding it because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt you had more sense to use an old 1.8 petrol mondeo as the basis to judge all petrol cars in existence from. Particularly since most new cars in the last few years have been aimed towards city/urban driving.

Your fuel consumption is what it is because of your type of driving. Nobody on here can change that, but you can get a car suited to that type of driving and you seem to be ignoring any advice which suggests you made the wrong choice.

To be blunt - You should have done your homework BEFORE buying, not after.

I agree with that! However it's a little late to buy a petrol as you suggested.

Foxhole Norman

Axidium wrote: »

Mondeo costs:

Tax: 700€
Insurance: 1000€
Petrol: 3120(being generous)

Which is: 4820€ a year.

Astra costs:

13,500€ (Mondeo was valued at 1.5k)

Tax: 190€
Insurance: 800€
Diesel: 1820€

Which is: 2810€

That saves me 2010€ a year.

Astra was 15k, after 3 years it might be 9k. So I've lost 6k in 3 years. But I've saved 2010 a year on expenses.

If my calculations are wrong or the whole thing is wrong please inform me.

So saving 2010 a year means that it'll take you 6 years to cover the 15k outlay. Along with the depreciation. Some good maths you've done there.

Axidium

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

But sure you aren't getting a whole lot more out of your small diesel engine. The fact is that things aren't as black & white as your post above, a diesel isn't always more economical than a petrol. you have to look at the bigger picture and factor in the type of driving conditions the car will be subject to, and the potentially higher maintenance bills.

In your case if you are doing short stop start journeys a petrol is the better option. A blocked dpf(diesel particulate filter) or a failed dmf(dual mass flywheel) will wipe out any small savings you've made at the pump.

Unfortunately the masses in this country seem to think they need a diesel for going to the shop and back. They are more interested in spending thousands to upgrade to a diesel to save a few euro on tax and a few cent on diesel instead of looking at the bigger picture to see if a diesel will be beneficial to them or not,

Well I've halved my weekly spending on fuel. Also, generally when people buy cars they don't only buy it to go shops. I bought my car thinking it would be an economical all rounder. 40MPG is not that bad considering the driving I am doing at the moment. Also by saying a blocked DPF and DMF will wipe out savings, you're talking about most new diesels.

Axidium

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

So saving 2010 a year means that it'll take you 6 years to cover the 15k outlay. Along with the depreciation. Some good maths you've done there.

Like I've said, I WILL SELL THE CAR AFTER 3 YEARS HOPING TO GET 9000€.