Is this a motoring offence?

lovelyhurler

Hopefully this is the right forum.

Anyway, walking along the footpath. There's a mother and child about 20m or so in front of me. Large volume of water alongside the path due to recent bad weather.
Along comes a car, and drives straight into the standing water and completely drenches - and I mean completely drenches - the mother and child.
The driver made NO attempt whatsoever to avoid the standing water.
I got the reg of the car no bother.
Now, I'm convinced that this is an offence, and if the woman involved wants to report it I can give her the reg number.
I'm sure that I've heard of people being prosecuted for this sort of behavior. Or am I just dreaming.

That sort of driving and ignorance of others around you does my head in.

Any opinions?????

Yakuza

"Driving without reasonable consideration" would probably cover the situation you describe. Feckin' eejit was either a)ignorant of his surroundings and the road conditions or b) an inconsiderate ars3hole. Either way they need to be brought to task.

RosieJoe

I've heard in the past that they could get done for driving without due care and attention. No idea if there are many cases prosecuted under these circumstances though.

Cabaal

I heard of it happening in the UK alright,
Person driving down a road with the aim of splashing people at a bus stop, the idiots videoed themselves doing it which was used as evidence.

here's news story about it http://news.sky.com/story/731893/driver-charged-for-splashing-school-kids

So in the UK atleast, Driving through a puddle to splash bystanders is an offence of "careless, and inconsiderate, driving" under the Road Traffic Act section 3 and carries a fine of up to £2,500.

For Ireland, not so sure....

SleeperService

Probably "driving without due care and attention" in a civilised country if you were seen by police. Dunno how much weight Joe Public would carry reporting it?

Personally im fairly confident anyone that engages in this lives a miserable and sexually unfulfilled life.

Henry Ford III

Whatever about a motoring offence it's certainly offensive motoring.

dr.fuzzenstein

You mean you didn't give her the reg number straight away?
Only course of action would have been to give her the reg number of the car and your details as a witness.
It's really up to her to see if she can get some kind of action out of this.
And I hope the guy gets done.

BMJD

might be covered by this:

4.— (1) The following sections are substituted for sections 51A, 52 (inserted by sections 49 and 50, respectively, of the Act of 1968), 53 (as amended by section 51 of the Act of 1968, section 49(1)(f) of the Act of 1994 and section 13 of the Act of 2004), 54 (as amended by section 6 of the Act of 1968) and 55 (as amended by section 52 of the Act of 1968) of the Principal Act:

“Driving without reasonable consideration.

51A.— (1) A person shall not drive a vehicle in a public place without reasonable consideration for other persons using the place.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) commits an offence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0028/sec0004.html

Interestingly there's a driver in the UK facing court for that very thing:

A motorist is facing prosecution after he allegedly drenched children walking to their primary school by driving through a puddle.
He has been summonsed to appear before magistrates for driving without reasonable consideration over the incident, which was witnessed by a passing policeman.
The man faces a charge under a little-known provision covered by the Road Traffic Act, which makes it an offence to “drive through a puddle causing pedestrians to be splashed”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10590181/Motorist-faces-court-after-splashing-schoolchildren-with-puddle.html

lovelyhurler

Personally im fairly confident anyone that engages in this lives a miserable and sexually unfulfilled life.

Couldn't agree more

You mean you didn't give her the reg number straight away?
Only course of action would have been to give her the reg number of the car and your details as a witness

She wasn't too keen to push it - just probably wanted to get home and dried. I know the woman involved anyway, so I can give her the details anytime.

SleeperService

Saw it done in limerick near the castle recently. Mother pushing a child in a buggy, fella with an expensive camera. All drenched. Didn't catch the reg, I was actually shocked by the ignorance involved.

bmstuff

What do you do in that case, slam the brakes and cause the car behind you to rear end you?
Or do you deport yourself to the other lane very quickly and cause an accident possibly too.
Hard to see the puddles of water sometimes and impossible to predict how deep it is.

Sorry but this is only water, it was probably not done maliciously, try to prove it otherwise.
As you stand on a footpath ready to cross the road and it rains like hell, just use half your brain to stay away from the big puddle of water.

RosieJoe

bmstuff wrote: »

What do you do in that case, slam the brakes and cause the car behind you to rear end you?
Or do you deport yourself to the other lane very quickly and cause an accident possibly too.
Hard to see the puddles of water sometimes and impossible to predict how deep it is.

Sorry but this is only water, it was probably not done maliciously, try to prove it otherwise.
As you stand on a footpath ready to cross the road and it rains like hell, just use half your brain to stay away from the big puddle of water.

If you were a half decent driver with any sort of driving skills that meant you were aware of hazards in front of you, you would never need to slam on the brakes or swerve because of a stationary puddle! It's not as if it jumped out in front of you!

And where in the OP did you see the pedestrians were trying to cross the road? If you reread it you will see that they were walking along the footpath.

MarkR

bmstuff wrote: »

What do you do in that case, slam the brakes and cause the car behind you to rear end you?
Or do you deport yourself to the other lane very quickly and cause an accident possibly too.
Hard to see the puddles of water sometimes and impossible to predict how deep it is.

Sorry but this is only water, it was probably not done maliciously, try to prove it otherwise.
As you stand on a footpath ready to cross the road and it rains like hell, just use half your brain to stay away from the big puddle of water.

If you're driving and can't stop in time to avoid splashing someone, you were either driving too fast, or not paying attention.

I didn't think I'd see anyone playing devil's advocate on this one.

BMJD

Sometimes these situations can lead to long-term romance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o5yLdwLcYo

dr.fuzzenstein

bmstuff wrote: »

What do you do in that case, slam the brakes and cause the car behind you to rear end you?
Or do you deport yourself to the other lane very quickly and cause an accident possibly too.
Hard to see the puddles of water sometimes and impossible to predict how deep it is.

Sorry but this is only water, it was probably not done maliciously, try to prove it otherwise.
As you stand on a footpath ready to cross the road and it rains like hell, just use half your brain to stay away from the big puddle of water.

I would say that in that case you where driving too fast, not paying attention and you could have run down the mother and child, making you a baby murderer.
I.e. someone who should not be allowed on the road in the first place.

Del2005

lovelyhurler wrote: »

Hopefully this is the right forum.

Anyway, walking along the footpath. There's a mother and child about 20m or so in front of me. Large volume of water alongside the path due to recent bad weather.
Along comes a car, and drives straight into the standing water and completely drenches - and I mean completely drenches - the mother and child.
The driver made NO attempt whatsoever to avoid the standing water.
I got the reg of the car no bother.
Now, I'm convinced that this is an offence, and if the woman involved wants to report it I can give her the reg number.
I'm sure that I've heard of people being prosecuted for this sort of behavior. Or am I just dreaming.

That sort of driving and ignorance of others around you does my head in.

Any opinions?????

It's an offence if you swerve into the puddle to soak the pedestrian. If you are driving in your lane and don't do anything it's ignorant driving but not an offence.

TheNog

lovelyhurler wrote: »

Hopefully this is the right forum.

Anyway, walking along the footpath. There's a mother and child about 20m or so in front of me. Large volume of water alongside the path due to recent bad weather.
Along comes a car, and drives straight into the standing water and completely drenches - and I mean completely drenches - the mother and child.
The driver made NO attempt whatsoever to avoid the standing water.
I got the reg of the car no bother.
Now, I'm convinced that this is an offence, and if the woman involved wants to report it I can give her the reg number.
I'm sure that I've heard of people being prosecuted for this sort of behavior. Or am I just dreaming.

That sort of driving and ignorance of others around you does my head in.

Any opinions?????

The driver could be prosecuted for Section 51a Road Traffic Act as already said. It has been done. I remember seeing it reported a few years ago I think in the Meath area.

I would also be looking at Section 2 Criminal Damage if any of her property was destroyed such as mobile phone etc.

Witness statements would need to be taken first and all circumstances considered first though.

bmstuff

RosieJoe wrote: »

If you were a half decent driver with any sort of driving skills that meant you were aware of hazards in front of you, you would never need to slam on the brakes or swerve because of a stationary puddle! It's not as if it jumped out in front of you!

And where in the OP did you see the pedestrians were trying to cross the road? If you reread it you will see that they were walking along the footpath.

I am an excellent driver thanks and i do not do that, I drive on dublin quays each day and I am conscious of that, all I am saying is that you can not always see a big puddle due to their physical nature and you might have someone sticking to your arse. Sorry but between getting someone wet and writting my car off and causing a road accident with physical injury my choice is quickly made.
Let's be real and let stop this stupid inquisition.

..Brian..

bmstuff wrote: »

What do you do in that case, slam the brakes and cause the car behind you to rear end you?
Or do you deport yourself to the other lane very quickly and cause an accident possibly too.
Hard to see the puddles of water sometimes and impossible to predict how deep it is.

Sorry but this is only water, it was probably not done maliciously, try to prove it otherwise.
As you stand on a footpath ready to cross the road and it rains like hell, just use half your brain to stay away from the big puddle of water.

If you are driving at a sensible speed and paying attention to what you are doing you should have to do none of the above. You should have plenty of time to slow down.

Do you have kids? If a driver soaked my 6 month old daughter and I was possibly a 10, 15 or 30 minute walk from home and it 3 degrees outside, it would not end well if I could do anything about it.

jackofalltrades

MarkR wrote: »

I didn't think I'd see anyone playing devil's advocate on this one.

It's the motors forum, I'm amazed no one has come on so far and blamed the whole situation on the mother and child.

RosieJoe

bmstuff wrote: »

I am an excellent driver thanks and i do not do that, I drive on dublin quays each day and I am conscious of that, all I am saying is that you can not always see a big puddle due to their physical nature and you might have someone sticking to your arse. Sorry but between getting someone wet and writting my car off and causing a road accident with physical injury my choice is quickly made.
Let's be real and let stop this stupid inquisition.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Veloce

I saw this happen in NYC (Canal St) the last time I was there. A police car was pulling up to the kerb and drove over a pothole which was full of water. The splash from the pothole drenched this dude standing on the footpath- I think he was one of those guys selling handbags / watches / perfume etc. Anyway the dude starts hurling abuse at the police officers and demands a towel to dry himself. This went on for a bit and it got a bit more aggravated when the dude started insulting the police men.

The police men tackled him to the ground- one got him in a headlock and the other put cuffs on him. Entertaining to say the least but I did feel sorry for poor lad.

Tails142

I drenched some poor kid walking to school one day in Balbriggan, I was turning at a t-junction and my wheel went into a pot hole and sent a massive wave of water over him. Put the foot down and got out of there pronto =D

Also there is a massive pot hole near the main lights in Inchicore Village. Its right in the driving lane and sends a torrent of water crashing up and onto the footpath. Was a passenger in a car that went through it earlier and luckily there was nobody on the footpath but I had noticed it earlier in the week driving through it myself, again don't think anyone was affected.

If you ask me its the council to blame, there shouldnt be pot holes and big pools of standing water on the road!!

toyotaavensis

I remember as a learner driver accidentally drowning three young girls. They started screaming and shouting. I know this is going to get a lot of people annoyed but I didnt stop laughing for a week.

dr.fuzzenstein

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It's the motors forum, I'm amazed no one has come on so far and blamed the whole situation on the mother and child.

OK, let's see.

They should have seen the puddle and oncoming car and made sure they moved out of the way, since the driver obviously has more important things on his mind and cannot be expected to look out for puddles as well! Besides a car should have priority on the road and obviously is far too important to change his speed or heading to suit lowly lifeforms such as pedestrians.
Since he drives a car, he is obviously an important person who clearly outranks pedestrians, who should marvel at his driving prowess and be in awe of his gleaming driving machine. Especially if he is an excellent driver.

Best I can do.

CiniO

My wife failed one of her driving tests for splashing pedestrians with water from flooded road. However it wasn't in Ireland.

enfant terrible

..Brian.. wrote: »

If you are driving at a sensible speed and paying attention to what you are doing you should have to do none of the above. You should have plenty of time to slow down.

Do you have kids? If a driver soaked my 6 month old daughter and I was possibly a 10, 15 or 30 minute walk from home and it 3 degrees outside, it would not end well if I could do anything about it.

What would you do?

Spook_ie

I doubt any offence is comitted unless it's done deliberately. Many times you can be driving and slow for a minor puddle which turns into a major puddle, you cannot judge the depth of puddles unless you know the road

Example, imagine it's a wet rainy day and road surface is wet, would you think this would look like a deep puddle or just a puddle?

Veloce

I'll just leave this here:

georgefalls

Its the councils fault, for not making sure the drains are unblocked properly. Sue them..!:D

keithclancy

Spook_ie wrote: »

I doubt any offence is comitted unless it's done deliberately. Many times you can be driving and slow for a minor puddle which turns into a major puddle, you cannot judge the depth of puddles unless you know the road

Example, imagine it's a wet rainy day and road surface is wet, would you think this would look like a deep puddle or just a puddle?

I would slow down simply because you don't know whats under the water.
Could be a massive pothole like in your video.

Spook_ie

keithclancy wrote: »

I would slow down simply because you don't know whats under the water.
Could be a massive pothole like in your video.

In that case you'd be better off parking up when ever it rains, because regardless of speed you find one like that and you're in "deep" trouble.

keithclancy

Spook_ie wrote: »

In that case you'd be better off parking up when ever it rains, because regardless of speed you find one like that and you're in "deep" trouble.

Obviously you slow down so you can safely avoid them, not so you can drive into them slowly.

e.g. I wouldn't slow down so I can run over pedestrians more slowly :rolleyes:

Spook_ie

keithclancy wrote: »

Obviously you slow down so you can safely avoid them, not so you can drive into them slowly.

e.g. I wouldn't slow down so I can run over pedestrians more slowly :rolleyes:

So you would drive on the footpath to avoid driving slowly through a puddle then, just in case?

Anyway back on topic

Veloce wrote: »

I'll just leave this here:

That would definately be an offence and I think it's actually the one they got prosecuted for, can't remember if it was a driving offence or an assault offence though, anybody?

EDIT
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1220013/Driver-faces-prosecution-deliberately-soaking-children-puddles--posting-video-online.html
Possible charge of reckless driving according to The Mail

keithclancy

Spook_ie wrote: »

So you would drive on the footpath to avoid driving slowly through a puddle then, just in case?

No the footpath is for feet. :rolleyes:

MadYaker

I blame the gubbermint!

Spook_ie

keithclancy wrote: »

No the footpath is for feet. :rolleyes:

So as said before, if you came upon a puddle stretching across the road you'd park up then? or take a detour? just in case

ciotog

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

OK, let's see.

They should have seen the puddle and oncoming car and made sure they moved out of the way, since the driver obviously has more important things on his mind and cannot be expected to look out for puddles as well! Besides a car should have priority on the road and obviously is far too important to change his speed or heading to suit lowly lifeforms such as pedestrians.
Since he drives a car, he is obviously an important person who clearly outranks pedestrians, who should marvel at his driving prowess and be in awe of his gleaming driving machine. Especially if he is an excellent driver.

Best I can do.

You can't leave out that they should've been wearing hi-vis. Clearly the driver couldn't see them.

keithclancy

Spook_ie wrote: »

So as said before, if you came upon a puddle stretching across the road you'd park up then? or take a detour? just in case

Well if its stretching across the road then I definitely wouldn't go through it at speed. 10-15km/h maximum.

I'm talking about resting water at the side of the road, just reduce your speed and go around it without endangering traffic on the other side of the road, while also checking your blind spot to make sure someone on a moped/bicycle or even a car is not trying to overtake you at the same time.

EazyD

Spook_ie wrote: »

So as said before, if you came upon a puddle stretching across the road you'd park up then? or take a detour? just in case

No, you slow down when passing through it to minimise the chance of kicking water up. It's called logic.

MarkR

Sure they don't even pay road tax, Joe.

Tea 1000

bmstuff wrote: »

What do you do in that case, slam the brakes and cause the car behind you to rear end you?
Or do you deport yourself to the other lane very quickly and cause an accident possibly too.
Hard to see the puddles of water sometimes and impossible to predict how deep it is.

Sorry but this is only water, it was probably not done maliciously, try to prove it otherwise.
As you stand on a footpath ready to cross the road and it rains like hell, just use half your brain to stay away from the big puddle of water.

If you think your only option is to slam the brakes then you don't drive with due care and attention.

bmstuff wrote: »

I am an excellent driver thanks and i do not do that, I drive on dublin quays each day and I am conscious of that, all I am saying is that you can not always see a big puddle due to their physical nature and you might have someone sticking to your arse. Sorry but between getting someone wet and writting my car off and causing a road accident with physical injury my choice is quickly made.
Let's be real and let stop this stupid inquisition.

Everyone who says this actually isn't. If you think you're excellent, then you simply don't know where you're not up to scratch, therefore you're probably not great at all.

Sobanek

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Everyone who says this actually isn't. If you think you're excellent, then you simply don't know where you're not up to scratch, therefore you're probably not great at all.

Everyone including yourself, myself, bmstuff and every single motorist is a rubbish driver.

Happy now?

Considering the amount of pure IDIOCY I see on the roads everyday, I DO for one consider myself to be an ok driver - not excellent by any means, but not bad or average.

dr.fuzzenstein

Spook_ie wrote: »

So as said before, if you came upon a puddle stretching across the road you'd park up then? or take a detour? just in case

I have never managed to splash pedestrians so far.
Not saying it never will happen, because so far I have managed to spot them all, but it's always possible I might overlook a puddle.
But you seem to think that coming upon puddles one should always bean through them at full tilt and not take pedestrians into account.

dr.fuzzenstein

Always reminds me: :P

stoneill

bmstuff wrote: »

What do you do in that case, slam the brakes and cause the car behind you to rear end you?
Or do you deport yourself to the other lane very quickly and cause an accident possibly too.
Hard to see the puddles of water sometimes and impossible to predict how deep it is.

Sorry but this is only water, it was probably not done maliciously, try to prove it otherwise.
As you stand on a footpath ready to cross the road and it rains like hell, just use half your brain to stay away from the big puddle of water.

Jaysus - are you serious?

No Pants

Spook_ie wrote: »

So as said before, if you came upon a puddle stretching across the road you'd park up then? or take a detour? just in case

That's called a flood. I've come across some of them recently at the Malahide estuary. Drive through them slowly, using the middle/highest part of the road, with the consent of traffic from the opposite direction.

Haven't splashed a pedestrian yet.

wonski

Never splashed any pedestrians, there could be genuine situations when a driver had no chance to avoid this, but in most cases you can just slow down and crawl through the water to make sure the pedestrians are "safe" if you can't move to the right side of the road.
Also when i am out walking and see standing water i always move to the side of the footpath just in case the driver is an ignorant a**.
Pedestrians have to be aware of the surroundings too, especially in current weather.

Spook_ie

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I have never managed to splash pedestrians so far.
Not saying it never will happen, because so far I have managed to spot them all, but it's always possible I might overlook a puddle.
But you seem to think that coming upon puddles one should always bean through them at full tilt and not take pedestrians into account.

Would you like to quote whichever post that you reckon i said that in?

Bits_n_Bobs

RosieJoe wrote: »

If you were a half decent driver with any sort of driving skills that meant you were aware of hazards in front of you, you would never need to slam on the brakes or swerve because of a stationary puddle! It's not as if it jumped out in front of you!

Dude if you're half as good a driver as me you can get the car to leap over the puddle like a flying pig with the force. If people don't have enough of the force they shouldn't be allowed to drive. From what you wrote you lack enough force and should be banned from driving. And probably operating trollies around shops as well, you sound like a bloody menace....

Spook_ie

No Pants wrote: »

That's called a flood. I've come across some of them recently at the Malahide estuary. Drive through them slowly, using the middle/highest part of the road, with the consent of traffic from the opposite direction.

Haven't splashed a pedestrian yet.

Jeeze, two puddles joining up do not make a flood