Brian O'Driscoll - where does he rank among the greats of the game?

PropJoe10

As BODs career is now almost over, I was just wondering what people thought about his overall standing among the greats of the game. For me, he has to be right up there for a number of reasons.

- His longevity, been at the top of the game for 15 years now. For a guy that isnt the biggest and has constantly put his body on the line year in, year out, thats a remarkable achievement.

- His speed of thought - even now, when he's past his best, he is always one step ahead of the opposition in his head. You can see that in his ball winning skills and how often he seems to pop up on the end of moves to apply the finishing touch, not just out wide but often around the fringes.

- His leadership - captained us i dont know how many times, to grand slams, triple crowns etc. Not to mention his success with Leinster, while he wasnt the captain, obviously one of the most influential senior players.

For me, its been an absolute privilege to watch this guy play in the green shirt, we've been incredibly lucky to have him, and in my opinion hes one of the greatest players to ever play rugby union. I remember the dark days of the 90s well, going to Lansdowne Road and seeing us struggle and getting hammered. I never thought we'd have such a world class player in our ranks for so many years. Lets hope he gets through the Six Nations and the rest of the season injury free. We need to enjoy watching him play while we still can!

LuckyLloyd

Greatest player to play his position, member of an all time XV.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

I think he's the greatest player of the professional era alongside McCaw

Yeah_Right

When you say "Greats of the Game" do you mean Irish greats? Great centres/midfielders? Or simply world greats throughout history?

Obviously its almost impossible to compare players from different eras (though we all love to do it ). I've been watching international rugby for over 30 years now and I always try separate players that I've seen into professional era and pre-professional (it was never really amateur). And obviously there were great players that I never saw so I have to take my dad's and uncles' (and other experts) word about how good they were.

digzy

I think he's the greatest I've ever seen.
You could count the number of 'bad'games he's had on one hand, though I know it's subjective.

It's a mark of his class that he's still competitive despite his powers waning.

I'm just wondering did he stay on 1 year too long?

Yeah_Right

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I think he's the greatest player of the professional era alongside McCaw

I like that you specified pro era.

Disagree with the call though. I would put Carter, Gregan, McCaw even Johnson above him. If you are talking about profile/status in rugby - Lomu and Wilkinson would be higher.

PropJoe10

Yeah_Right wrote: »

When you say "Greats of the Game" do you mean Irish greats? Great centres/midfielders? Or simply world greats throughout history?

Obviously its almost impossible to compare players from different eras (though we all love to do it ). I've been watching international rugby for over 30 years now and I always try separate players that I've seen into professional era and pre-professional (it was never really amateur). And obviously there were great players that I never saw so I have to take my dad's and uncles' (and other experts) word about how good they were.

I suppose I meant "of the professional era". It would be very hard to compare him to the likes of Jack Kyle or Mike Gibson because the game these days is so different to years back. The best centre I saw in the Irish team pre-professional era was Brendan Mullin - been watching rugby since the late 80's and he was a terrific player. But O'Driscoll is definitely the greatest Irish player of this era, and I would put him up there as the best outside centre of the professional era, full stop.

Podge_irl

Yeah_Right wrote: »

If you are talking about profile/status in rugby - Lomu and Wilkinson would be higher.

Perhaps, but neither of them was close to him as a player.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Podge_irl wrote: »

Perhaps, but neither of them was close to him as a player.

nor is Genia. Genia might be in a few years but he's only 24 and is coming off the back of a poor season. Far too early to put him anywhere near the likes of BOD/McCaw/Carter

PropJoe10

BOD, McCaw, Carter would have to be the standout players from this era in terms of playing ability. If you wanted to include players based on influence, then Pelous, Johnson, Wilkinson would also have to be considered.

.ak

He's defo in the top 5 13s of the pro era. However, the effect he has on the team and the sport in general and his ability to impact on other things an outside centre would he's place is cemented as the best 13 of the pro era for me. Call me biased, I don't care, I can't think of another 13 who has had that kind of influence on the teams he's played for. Even Conrad Mr Dependable Smith is not the difference between winning losing a game for his teams.

augustus gloop

genia:eek:
Jon Smit, John Eales and Martin Johnson, but yes BOD best pro for sure:)

Yeah_Right

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

nor is Genia. Genia might be in a few years but he's only 24 and is coming off the back of a poor season. Far too early to put him anywhere near the likes of BOD/McCaw/Carter

Ah sh1te!! I meant Gregan not Genia. Sorry.

Swiwi.

I don't know where to place him exactly, but I reckon his most impressive legacy is his try-scoring stats - he might as well have been a winger with that record. I can't comment on the pre-1987 rugby era, but probably the greatest centre I've seen, especially given he has shone for Ireland, despite the 1st XV's fluctuating fortunes. Tim Horan + BOD would be a midfield combo made in rugby heaven.

Edit: other good 13s off the top off my head I've seen: Sella, Smith, Umaga, Guscott, Fourie.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Ah sh1te!! I meant Gregan not Genia. Sorry.

haha, fair enough! Makes more sense !

Yeah_Right

augustus gloop wrote: »

genia:eek:
Jon Smit, John Eales and Martin Johnson, but yes BOD best pro for sure:)

how could I forget Nobody?? Brilliant player.

Smit is one that I don't think was the best in his position but his influence on his team and the game was immense. A bit like Sean Fitzpatrick.

phog

If BOD was a SH player we'd be in awe of him whenever we'd see him play live, I think because we see him in the flesh playing InterPro Rabo games then we almost take him for granted.

Gambas

There's a fair few greats knocking around over the past 15 years and he's one of them. But as a centre he's pretty peerless.

PropJoe10

Gordon D'Arcy deserves a mention too. If it wasnt for BOD, i'm sure he'd be being talked about as one of our best ever centres

Gambas

phog wrote: »

If BOD was a SH player we'd be in awe of him whenever we'd see him play live, I think because we see him in the flesh playing InterPro Rabo games then we almost take him for granted.

In fairness, given all the threads here, pub chat and wider commentary in the media about how great he is and how he'll be missed etc... it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that we almost take him for granted.

sydthebeat

Swiwi. wrote: »

Edit: other good 13s off the top off my head I've seen: Sella, Smith, Umaga, Guscott, Fourie.

:eek: cant believe you said that forbidden word in a thread dedicated to BOD. :D

In my opinion hes the best 13 in the pro era so far.
Its not possible or fair i think to compare to earlier because of the shear gulf in athleticism and mass of players, frequency of games etc.

What i like about him so much is that, a kin to giggs in soccer, he has augmented his game over time. He has gone from a scything speedy centre, to a player with immaculate hands and speed of though, and with a defensive game which is massive and hes as good as many modern 7's on the floor. And all the time has a rugby intelligence that a lot of high profile players simply dont have.

On field hes a general, leads by example, organises and demands the extras from his team mates.

Off the field hes a gentleman.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Gambas wrote: »

In fairness, given all the threads here, pub chat and wider commentary in the media about how great he is and how he'll be missed etc... it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that we almost take him for granted.

I was at the game on Sunday, and at one stage in the first half found myself thinking how cool it will be to tell people when I'm older that I saw Brian O'Driscoll rip it up numerous times in the flesh

Yeah_Right

Best 13s I can think of from the pro era are Bunce, Mortlock, Smith and BOD. If you are including 12s I would add Horan, Umaga, Nonu, JdV.
Its a shame Fourie (sp?) disappeared to Japan because he was brilliant. I think Fofana could end up in the conversation as one of the greats, just too early yet.
I loved watching Bunce play so I'm going with him as the greatest ever.

PropJoe10

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Best 13s I can think of from the pro era are Bunce, Mortlock, Smith and BOD. If you are including 12s I would add Horan, Umaga, Nonu, JdV.
Its a shame Fourie (sp?) disappeared to Japan because he was brilliant. I think Fofana could end up in the conversation as one of the greats, just too early yet.
I loved watching Bunce play so I'm going with him as the greatest ever.

Wasnt Bunce primarily in the amateur era? Great player though.

bilston

There have been three truly great players for the ages over the last 15 years. Guys who have lasted the distance and continued to produce brillance.

Dan Carter, Richie McCaw and Brian O'Driscoll. Of the three I think BOD is the best, for two reasons...

1) He didn't play for the ABs, therefore his brillance is even more special as he didn't have the support around him of the other two.
2) If BOD wanted he'd have been a world class O/S, could McCaw have been a world class 13?

Edit - I actually would probably add a few players to the above, particularly George Gregan, although only half his career coincided with the guys mentioned, I'd also add Victor Matfield and Fourie Du Preez but because they both took sabaticals or retired early or whatever you want to call it I would say they didn't have the longevity of the two Kiwis and BOD.

gaius c

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Greatest player to play his position, member of an all time XV.

Big statement that may be coloured by nationalism. Smith is currently the uncontested best 13 in the world. Is he better than BOD ever was? Maybe, maybe not.
Guscott was kind of handy in his day too.

He's certainly the greatest Irish player though.

bilston

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Best 13s I can think of from the pro era are Bunce, Mortlock, Smith and BOD. If you are including 12s I would add Horan, Umaga, Nonu, JdV.
Its a shame Fourie (sp?) disappeared to Japan because he was brilliant. I think Fofana could end up in the conversation as one of the greats, just too early yet.
I loved watching Bunce play so I'm going with him as the greatest ever.

I'd add Jauzion to the mix too. He didn't have anything like the longevity of BOD but at his best was a joy to watch. I'd love to have seen Jauzion at 12 and BOD at 13 in a team.

PropJoe10

gaius c wrote: »

Big statement that may be coloured by nationalism. Smith is currently the uncontested best 13 in the world. Is he better than BOD ever was? Maybe, maybe not.
Guscott was kind of handy in his day too.

He's certainly the greatest Irish player though.

Can you imagine how good BOD would have been in a NZ team, when he was in his prime? Smith is great, but its BOD all the way for me.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

gaius c wrote: »

Big statement that may be coloured by nationalism. Smith is currently the uncontested best 13 in the world. Is he better than BOD ever was? Maybe, maybe not.
Guscott was kind of handy in his day too.

He's certainly the greatest Irish player though.

Hardly. If you asked most non-Irish people who they thought is the best 13 of all time and I'd be surprised if BOD didn't top the list

Smith is better than BOD now, but BOD was at a different level that Smith hasn't reached at his peak

BoarHunter

Philippe Sella anyone ? or are ye too young to remember

.ak

gaius c wrote: »

Big statement that may be coloured by nationalism. Smith is currently the uncontested best 13 in the world. Is he better than BOD ever was? Maybe, maybe not.
Guscott was kind of handy in his day too.

He's certainly the greatest Irish player though.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I think what gives him that accolade is the fact BOD is such a good rugby player, and not limited to the role of a 13. He can do the whole package; run, catch, pass, tackle, kick, maul, ruck, clear out, poach, talk, listen, coach etc.

For me that's what separates him from great 13s like Smith or Guscott. He definitely deserves a place in the all time great XV for professional rugby because of that.

Listening to the some of the testimonials of his international test rugby peers would lead you to thinking the same thing.

.ak

Also, I honestly can't think of a player in the pro era with better natural handling skills. The only one I can think of doesn't play Union (Marshall). Others up there would be Spencer and Cooper, but both were prone to use their handling skills in the wrong way.

sydthebeat

BoarHunter wrote: »

Philippe Sella anyone ? or are ye too young to remember

is it fair to compare amateur era to professional though?

sella probably best of all in the amateur era for me....

Gambas

.ak wrote: »

Listening to the some of the testimonials of his international test rugby peers would lead you to thinking the same thing.

I think we need to wait until he has retired to get the honest answers. Most of the times they are asked for their testimonials it by an Irish journalist prior to a game against Ireland and they would be pretty well aware of the 'pay hommage to our great one' drill that the Irish public demand.

.ak

Gambas wrote: »

I think we need to wait until he has retired to get the honest answers. Most of the times they are asked for their testimonials it by an Irish journalist prior to a game against Ireland and they would be pretty well aware of the 'pay hommage to our great one' drill that the Irish public demand.

Good point, however most of the answers I've read are fairly clear cut. You can't turn around and say 'I think he's the best 13 of my generation' and not mean it. Fair enough for more vague answers like 'He's one of the best players of my generation'.

Yeah_Right

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Wasnt Bunce primarily in the amateur era? Great player though.

Yeah Bunce only had 2 years as a pro. Most of his career was in the amateur era. Like I said, I loved watching him play - old guy, great skills and an outstanding defender. I will always bring him up in a conversation of greater midfielders

I think one of the biggest things about BOD is his influence and standing in the eyes of the Irish public. He was someone that even non-rugby fans were aware of. Here was a player that was up there with the best in the world at a time that rugby was starting to expand its audience and get an increasingly higher profile. A bit like Lomu on the world stage in the late 90s. Even if you didn't really follow rugby you recognized him.

Swiwi.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Best 13s I can think of from the pro era are Bunce, Mortlock, Smith and BOD. If you are including 12s I would add Horan, Umaga, Nonu, JdV.
Its a shame Fourie (sp?) disappeared to Japan because he was brilliant. I think Fofana could end up in the conversation as one of the greats, just too early yet.
I loved watching Bunce play so I'm going with him as the greatest ever.

Umaga played 13 not 12 (after initially playing 11). Horan is far and away the best 12 I've seen, then probably JdV just shading Nonu.

sydthebeat

Brian Lima could deserve a mention here too

Yeah_Right

Swiwi. wrote: »

Umaga played 13 not 12 (after initially playing 11). Horan is far and away the best 12 I've seen, then probably JdV just shading Nonu.

Could have sworn Umaga played both 12 and 13. Maybe that was just for the 'Canes.

Agree with your comment about Horan though.

PropJoe10

Swiwi. wrote: »

Umaga played 13 not 12 (after initially playing 11). Horan is far and away the best 12 I've seen, then probably JdV just shading Nonu.

Horan was superb. His partnership with Jason Little for Australia was one of the best.

Swiwi.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Could have sworn Umaga played both 12 and 13. Maybe that was just for the 'Canes.

Agree with your comment about Horan though.

I'm sure he played 12 at some stage, but his international duties were 11 and then 13.

stpaddy99

hes the greats irish player ever
as for all time greatest teams hmmmmmm
well in terms of caps and tries hes the greatest, but its not as simple as that
for starters its harder to win an all blacks cap and the competition is immense

his competition is

danie gerber, a springbok collossus, sella, a balletic powerful genius, horan a double world cup winning legend, umaga a beast , nonu, devilliers, maybe greenwod and guscott too, both great try scorers.

id go with horan as the best. BOD second, Umaga third.

sydthebeat

stpaddy99 wrote: »

hes the greats irish player ever
as for all time greatest teams hmmmmmm
well in terms of caps and tries hes the greatest, but its not as simple as that
for starters its harder to win an all blacks cap and the competition is immense

his competition is

danie gerber, a springbok collossus, sella, a balletic powerful genius, horan a double world cup winning legend, umaga a beast , nonu, devilliers, maybe greenwod and guscott too, both great try scorers.

id go with horan as the best. BOD second, Umaga third.

horan was a 12.....

Clearlier

Swiwi. wrote: »

Umaga played 13 not 12 (after initially playing 11). Horan is far and away the best 12 I've seen, then probably JdV just shading Nonu.

Really surprised to see Nonu mentioned. He's obviously good going forward although I never thought of him as amazing. Defensively however I was reminded of the fairly basic error he made for a BOD try against New Zealand when I was watching a compilation of try's (best individual ones of a certain year I think) on youtube last night where he made a fairly similar error in failing to take his defensive line of the man inside him. Good player absolutely, I just don't think that he's that near the greats. I'd have Jauzion and Horan ahead of him in a heartbeat. I'd probably prefer Traille. It's not that clearcut compared to D'Arcy even.

gaius c wrote: »

Big statement that may be coloured by nationalism. Smith is currently the uncontested best 13 in the world. Is he better than BOD ever was? Maybe, maybe not.
Guscott was kind of handy in his day too.

He's certainly the greatest Irish player though.

Guscott isn't known for his modesty but I'd be surprised if even he thought of himself as being at the same level. Smith is a very good player. He wouldn't have been playing if he had had to compete with BOD for a place.

bilston wrote: »

There have been three truly great players for the ages over the last 15 years. Guys who have lasted the distance and continued to produce brillance.

Dan Carter, Richie McCaw and Brian O'Driscoll. Of the three I think BOD is the best, for two reasons...

1) He didn't play for the ABs, therefore his brillance is even more special as he didn't have the support around him of the other two.
2) If BOD wanted he'd have been a world class O/S, could McCaw have been a world class 13?

Edit - I actually would probably add a few players to the above, particularly George Gregan, although only half his career coincided with the guys mentioned, I'd also add Victor Matfield and Fourie Du Preez but because they both took sabaticals or retired early or whatever you want to call it I would say they didn't have the longevity of the two Kiwis and BOD.

It's probably worth noting that playing for Ireland has helped with the longevity. IMHO he would have been dropped at one point in the middle of his career if there had been a serious alternative and he wouldn't still be playing internationally if he was a Kiwi.

Tombo2001

No disrespect to the BOD, but you wont get an objective answer to this on an Irish forum.

If you want a fair answer, then ask a French or Argentinean or Kiwi forum.

Best Irish player ever, we can judge that.

But in the international scheme of things......thats not for us to say.

stpaddy99

sydthebeat wrote: »

horan was a 12.....

I know and Im saying he was the best centre I ever saw

Buer

Swiwi. wrote: »

I'm sure he played 12 at some stage, but his international duties were 11 and then 13.

Because I'm sad enough to check it, he started at 12 on seven different occasions for NZ including against the Lions.

Yeah_Right

Sorry but I have to disagree with you that Smith wouldn't be playing if he was competing with BOD. I think Smith has outplayed him in most of their meetings. If they were in the same squad, I could see BOD at 12 and Smith at 13.

I think if he had been playing in NZ, Aus or SA he would have a lot less caps. Drop in form or an injury would have given a quality replacement an opportunity. Also the coaches there like the whole squad rotation thing. Lets face it John Mitchell probably would have decided he was the 5th or 6th best centre in the country and cut him completely

walshb

I think BOD is the one Irish player that is renowned internationally as an all time great. So, even being biased I think this says it all. On his day he is a top 3 ever at his position.

PropJoe10

Clearlier

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Sorry but I have to disagree with you that Smith wouldn't be playing if he was competing with BOD. I think Smith has outplayed him in most of their meetings. If they were in the same squad, I could see BOD at 12 and Smith at 13.

I think if he had been playing in NZ, Aus or SA he would have a lot less caps. Drop in form or an injury would have given a quality replacement an opportunity. Also the coaches there like the whole squad rotation thing. Lets face it John Mitchell probably would have decided he was the 5th or 6th best centre in the country and cut him completely

I could have been clearer (hence my handle). Right now everybody would have Smith in their team ahead of BOD - no question about it. In my all time team though BOD's there well ahead of Smith.