Par 3 opening holes?

leonards

Not a fan myself... Too much pressure trying to hit a good first shot of the day onto a green!

djivide_

terrible idea for opening hole. the following group has to wait for you to put out before they can take their tee shot.
Makes for a longer gap needed between groups.

fullstop

City of Derry, ~210 uphill, into the prevailing wind. Horrible hole.

shane0007

Isn't Greystones par 3 first?

Benicetomonty

Grange 1st hole is a very difficult par 3. Second is a little easier. Royal Lytham maybe the most famous par 3 opener I can think of

FixdePitchmark

shane0007 wrote: »

Isn't Greystones par 3 first?

Yes, hard hole to start. As in, you have to stand up and hit a good mid iron to start. If not good , you have a fast green and tough up and down.

FixdePitchmark

In Greenore - not too bad,

But to have to stand up on the first and hit a good 5 iron is not that easy for many.

ShriekingSheet

The Grange and Greystones are probably the two worst starts to any golf course I've ever played.

Slightly more tolerable but still not good - the old Adare Manor course also has a 150 yard opener, and Corballis has a bizarre one with a 40 yard wide green.

Do Elm Park still start on that 100 yard hole? Or was that just the odd time? That actually would come below the first two above for me.

That's all I can think of.

blue note

Not a fan to be honest. If my course had one I'm sure I'd find it fine, but being unused to it as most people are I don't like it. The only advantage is that it can help space people out on a course. Instead of teeing off and waiting for the green, you dont get held up for your second shot.

bobwilliams

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

The Grange and Greystones are probably the two worst starts to any golf course I've ever played.



.

why?is it just because they are first ?I think they're 2 good holes,the first in Greystones always plays into the wind so it's never easy.

leonards

One of the nines at Donabate and also one of the 9s at coorstown, start with par3.

ShriekingSheet

bobwilliams wrote: »

why?is it just because they are first ?I think they're 2 good holes,the first in Greystones always plays into the wind so it's never easy.

With the grange, it just feels like you have to put up with the first two holes, before the course actually starts and you can actually enjoy the decent holes. The first in particular, up hill from the car park to a blind green, it wouldn't be out of place on the old Dublin City.

Greystones opener isn't a bad hole, to be fair. It's be different if they started with that tricky one up the hill (7?), which wouldn't be good. Still, you just feel it's not a good introduction to the course.

Oh, I think there's another one - Enniscorthy? I played Leinster Boys there and made 4 every day. Good times.

e.r

Swords open starts with one to . River down the left so better no hook !!

TitianGerm

Yes your right. Enniscorthy has a 160ish meter par 3 to start. Though start as the wind usually blows straight down the hole adding 2 or 3 clubs or blowing towards the out of bounds on the right.

Senecio

I think it's a bad idea for course management, too long between groups unless you call up then it's too short.

But I have to ask, why is hitting a 5-iron for the first tee shot any more difficult than a driver? After a bad first drive you're probably hitting a 5-iron from the rough for your second?

judosean2005

Adare manor starts on a Par3 aswell.
And its right beside the road. so every idiot beeping car, truck etc. especially during busy times.
everyone watching you.
crazy.

bobwilliams

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

.

Oh, I think there's another one - Enniscorthy? I played Leinster Boys there and made 4 every day. Good times.

if I remember correctly that is one poor hole,probably the worst on the course

paulos53

Monkstown and Glen of the Downs both start with par 3s.
If I remember correctly Glen of the Downs has a nasty ridge across the middle of the green that could leave you with a tough 2-putt to start the round

charlieIRL

Mount Temple in Westmeath has an opening Par 3, not an easy task either as its a shot over marsh land!!
First boards outing I played in was there and it was nerve wrecking standing on the first tee with about 25 strangers trying to hit a shot!! Only good thing its only about 150m and a huge green!!

fearruanua

judosean2005 wrote: »

Adare manor starts on a Par3 aswell.
And its right beside the road. so every idiot beeping car, truck etc. especially during busy times.
everyone watching you.
crazy.

Mickey Mouse hole!! You could probably throw the ball onto the green, it is that short.
Not a bad course but space is really at a premium.

bobwilliams

fearruanua wrote: »

Mickey Mouse hole!! You could probably throw the ball onto the green, it is that short.
Not a bad course but space is really at a premium.

Ya cheating ****:D

First Up

Elm Park starts with a par 3, or at least did the last time I played it. So does Glen of the Downs.

Never understood why the Grange kept those two par 3's to start. The third would be an excellent opening hole. Don't know how they would re-configure the course but they have those spare holes up the back

bobwilliams

First Up wrote: »

Elm Park starts with a par 3, or at least did the last time I played it. So does Glen of the Downs.

Never understood why the Grange kept those two par 3's to start. The third would be an excellent opening hole. Don't know how they would re-configure the course but they have those spare holes up the back

I'm sure I started a few times on the 3rd a few times up there

First Up

bobwilliams wrote: »

I'm sure I started a few times on the 3rd a few times up there

I assume that's where they started the round that day - not you opting out of the first two!

Makes so much sense; wish they would do it all the time. Would greatly improve the course.

bobwilliams

First Up wrote: »

I assume that's where they started the round that day - not you opting out of the first two!

Makes so much sense; wish they would do it all the time. Would greatly improve the course.

yeah played 18 starting on the 3rd,tough starting hole. That uphill par3 is a real struggle, wouldn't mind if the second was the first hole but 2 par 3's to start off with is a joke imo.

TitianGerm

bobwilliams wrote: »

if I remember correctly that is one poor hole,probably the worst on the course

I'm a member in Enniscorthy and I'd agree. However I'd prefer the 1st as a par 3 rather than the 12th.

First Up

bobwilliams wrote: »

yeah played 18 starting on the 3rd,tough starting hole. That uphill par3 is a real struggle, wouldn't mind if the second was the first hole but 2 par 3's to start off with is a joke imo.

So what holes did you finish with? The current 18th is the obvious closing hole; did you have to then go up past the clubhouse and play 1 and 2?

bobwilliams

First Up wrote: »

So what holes did you finish with? The current 18th is the obvious closing hole; did you have to then go up past the clubhouse and play 1 and 2?

can't remember playing holes 1 and 2 at all tbh,there's a few Grange members on here,they'll confirm if I was dreaming or not.
They're playing lawn bowls at the moment then in for scons and tea(from leaf of course),they'll be back posting after that:D

First Up

bobwilliams wrote: »

can't remember playing holes 1 and 2 at all tbh,there's a few Grange members on here,they'll confirm if I was dreaming or not.
They're playing lawn bowls at the moment then in for scons and tea(from leaf of course),they'll be back posting after that:D

I know I've played a "composite" version that brought in some of the spare holes and it was much the better for it. Have to assume its just die hard old blazers who insist on the "traditional" layout.

Miley Byrne

Bantry Bay starts with a par 3 and while I'm not a fan of Par 3 first holes, this is one of the better ones. Down hill par 3 over water. Not sure of it's length as I haven't played there in a few years.

Monkstown is the other that comes to mind. Not as memorable as Bantry's first though.

bobwilliams

fwiw I love a par 5 to start.
One's I remember, Lisheen Springs , Dun Laoghaire (lower 9) Castlecomer

GreeBo

bobwilliams wrote: »

can't remember playing holes 1 and 2 at all tbh,there's a few Grange members on here,they'll confirm if I was dreaming or not.
They're playing lawn bowls at the moment then in for scons and tea(from leaf of course),they'll be back posting after that:D

Philistine!
We were playing bridge.

judosean2005 wrote: »

Adare manor starts on a Par3 aswell.
And its right beside the road. so every idiot beeping car, truck etc. especially during busy times.
everyone watching you.
crazy.

How is that any different than it being a Par 4 or 5? You'd still have the same people watching and beeping...

Senecio wrote: »

I think it's a bad idea for course management, too long between groups unless you call up then it's too short.

But I have to ask, why is hitting a 5-iron for the first tee shot any more difficult than a driver? After a bad first drive you're probably hitting a 5-iron from the rough for your second?

We have an 8 minute gap between groups as standard and the timesheet is always on time. If they are trying to get out more people (Captains qualifier is the only example I can think of) the following group hits once the previous group have all reached the green.

First Up wrote: »

I know I've played a "composite" version that brought in some of the spare holes and it was much the better for it. Have to assume its just die hard old blazers who insist on the "traditional" layout.

The first hole is a great hole. There is no reason to lose it. Its a tough, intimidating and demanding first shot that can easily ruin a round.
The fact that its the first shot makes it that much harder, its just a tough hole if you play it after starting on the 7th.

There are 3 layouts in Grange, getting progressively longer starting at par 68, 70 and 72.
If you dont start at the first you dont play it at all.

GreeBo

bobwilliams wrote: »

fwiw I love a par 5 to start.
One's I remember, Lisheen Springs , Dun Laoghaire (lower 9) Castlecomer

Par 5 is too easy to start for me, eases you in.

TitianGerm

bobwilliams wrote: »

fwiw I love a par 5 to start.
One's I remember, Lisheen Springs , Dun Laoghaire (lower 9) Castlecomer

Bunclody has a nice par 5 to open. Especially in summer when they let the rough up !!

Senna

I think a par3 second is always worse for backlogs, par3 first would probably give a good gap and set that gap for the rest of the round, but it would need 10minute gap in timesheet.

ShriekingSheet

Senna wrote: »

I think a par3 second is always worse for backlogs, par3 first would probably give a good gap and set that gap for the rest of the round, but it would need 10minute gap in timesheet.

That is unbelievably true.

alxmorgan

GreeBo wrote: »

Par 5 is too easy to start for me, eases you in.

Jaysus Greebo, game is hard enough already. I'll take a little easing in if offered

Dr_Colossus

bobwilliams wrote: »

fwiw I love a par 5 to start.
One's I remember, Lisheen Springs , Dun Laoghaire (lower 9) Castlecomer

GreeBo wrote: »

Par 5 is too easy to start for me, eases you in.

I think there's a lot more room for error and strategy in a par 5 than a par 3 and would much prefer it as a starting hole. Tulfarris has a very good opening par 5, plenty of danger OOB on the right if you're wild and with the lake in play on the left on your second or approach shot it makes for good decisions. Short enough also to allow hitting it in two if you get a good drive away and fancy taking on the green over the lake/bunker.

Black Bush opens with a par 5 also but it's a fairly straight forward hole with not much danger.

In relation to The Grange, the first hole is a very good par 3 with plenty of opportunity to ruin a card so it would be a pity to exclude it from a round but that said I still think it takes from the course since it's the first hole.

First Up

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

I think there's a lot more room for error and strategy in a par 5 than a par 3 and would much prefer it as a starting hole. Tulfarris has a very good opening par 5, plenty of danger OOB on the right if you're wild and with the lake in play on the left on your second or approach shot it makes for good decisions. Short enough also to allow hitting it in two if you get a good drive away and fancy taking on the green over the lake/bunker.

Black Bush opens with a par 5 also but it's a fairly straight forward hole with not much danger.

In relation to The Grange, the first hole is a very good par 3 with plenty of opportunity to ruin a card so it would be a pity to exclude it from a round but that said I still think it takes from the course since it's the first hole.

Both those holes at the Grange are fine in themselves; its more the combination of two par 3's at the start. Greebo says there are other layouts in use, although I'm not sure how often they are deployed.

Something a bit different and maybe no harm to knock us out of our comfort zones!

big_drive

East Cork starts with a Par 3 also

GreeBo

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

I think there's a lot more room for error and strategy in a par 5 than a par 3 and would much prefer it as a starting hole. Tulfarris has a very good opening par 5, plenty of danger OOB on the right if you're wild and with the lake in play on the left on your second or approach shot it makes for good decisions. Short enough also to allow hitting it in two if you get a good drive away and fancy taking on the green over the lake/bunker.

Black Bush opens with a par 5 also but it's a fairly straight forward hole with not much danger.

In relation to The Grange, the first hole is a very good par 3 with plenty of opportunity to ruin a card so it would be a pity to exclude it from a round but that said I still think it takes from the course since it's the first hole.

Citing the only example I can think of, Castle starts with what I would consider a boring par 5. Its just straight, nothing of interest. I'd much rather an exciting par 3 or 4 personally.

I dont follow how you think a hole can be better or worse based on its position in the round? (Other than the obvious difference between first, last and then the other 16)

bobwilliams

GreeBo wrote: »

Citing the only example I can think of, Castle starts with what I would consider a boring par 5. Its just straight, nothing of interest. I'd much rather an exciting par 3 or 4 personally.

I dont follow how you think a hole can be better or worse based on its position in the round? (Other than the obvious difference between first, last and then the other 16)

a well designed course will usually ease a golfer into a round,like a women,not give you too much good stuff too quick:D(Tallagt excluded)
on your example I'm pretty happy to start with a mundane hole on a good course,i know there's plenty good one's to come for when I'm in a proper flow

ankles

Mannan Castle. Almost 200 yards of the back tees. OOB you can touch with your hand on the tee and all the way down the left. Over the back is also a lost ball. Bail out right are trees and a tough bunker to chip over.

Best to play it as a par 4 to the front and a chip and run!

It used to be the 13th but they rejigged the course and put in a pro shop, and so had no choice but to make it the first.

brick tamland

Corballlis starts with decent Par 3. No problem starting with a par 3. Rather hit a 5/6/7 iron than a driver off the 1st any day

FixdePitchmark

brick tamland wrote: »

Corballlis starts with decent Par 3. No problem starting with a par 3. Rather hit a 5/6/7 iron than a driver off the 1st any day

It is just a pw but, to the first in Corballis. It is not liked - but I like it.

GreeBo

bobwilliams wrote: »

a well designed course will usually ease a golfer into a round,like a women,not give you too much good stuff too quick:D(Tallagt excluded)
on your example I'm pretty happy to start with a mundane hole on a good course,i know there's plenty good one's to come for when I'm in a proper flow

Sorry but who says that makes a course well designed?
To me a we'll designed course has as many good holes as possible on the land they had. I'm not a fan of heavily sculpted, unnatural holes. They are impressive but I prefer the architect to fit them in with the existing landscape.

bobwilliams

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry but who says that makes a course well designed?
To me a we'll designed course has as many good holes as possible on the land they had. I'm not a fan of heavily sculpted, unnatural holes. They are impressive but I prefer the architect to fit them in with the existing landscape.

In the case of the grange it is definitely bad course design starting with 2 par 3's

loadwire

Corballis is the only one I've played I think with a par 3 opener. It's pretty unusual in that most use a short iron off the tee on the 2nd hole so you don't take out a long stick until the 3rd tee (a pretty daunting drive itself).

Bellewstown used to have a par 5 opening before they switched the 9's around. Always found it quite an easy opening hole but that was partly because the rough wasn't that punishing so you had loads of room for error with your tee shot.

PARlance

loadwire wrote: »

Corballis is the only one I've played I think with a par 3 opener. It's pretty unusual in that most use a short iron off the tee on the 2nd hole so you don't take out a long stick until the 3rd tee (a pretty daunting drive itself).

Bellewstown used to have a par 5 opening before they switched the 9's around. Always found it quite an easy opening hole but that was partly because the rough wasn't that punishing so you had loads of room for error with your tee shot.

Same here, it's the only Par 3 opener I have played.
I don't mind the thoughts of a Par 3 opener, in fact, I would take anything over having the index 1 Par 4 we have at ours, for an opener...
I would go along with the notion that the opener should be something that eases you into the round, be it a Par 3, 4 or 5.

Kevinmarkham

bobwilliams wrote: »

In the case of the grange it is definitely bad course design starting with 2 par 3's

Not sure I'd go as far as calling it 'bad design'. Perhaps it reduces the effect of what's to come, but the 1st hole is an excellent par three, long and uphill, while the second is the opposite: short and downhill. They put manners on you pretty damn quick.

I'm no fan of starting with a par three - as at my home club, Greystones - because your first tee shot has to be so good. On a par 4/5 you can get away with a loose drive as you'll have at least one opportunity to recover. A par three rarely gives that leeway. At Greystones the only place to be other than on the green is short. I par the hole 1 time in 4 and that puts me in bad form far too early, especially with 2 tough par fours to follow.

I'm all for a par 4 or 5 to ease you in.

Or maybe the problem is that we don't get to the course early enough to warm up and we see the 1st couple of holes as our warm up... by which stage we've had double bogeys and ruined our card.

bobwilliams

I would agree with the last bit Kevin,I'm straight from car to tee,not ideal tbh