Safety on Irish Rail

Chronic over crowding on the 6pm Sligo-Connolly train this evening. The train arrived in Longford with 2 hours to go and people were already standing. Passage ways all blocked, people standing basically in the toilets to try to make room, the train was only 4 carriages. This is the busiest train of the week on this route, I really fail to see how they don't have this train at maximum capacity every week!

My question is, are there no health and safety concerns for Irish Rail here? Apart from the discomfort and the oppressive heat on the train, are there no restrictions to how many passengers they carry at one time for safety reasons?

SeanW

I was on that train, it was a pathetic joke. But even though the train was close to crush loading even before I got on it.

While the current mess is appalling, I think its better in these situations to pile people in, so that people do get where they need to go, because let's face it, people wouldn't put up with this insanity if (like myself tonight) it was not absolutely unavoidable.

Under normal circumstances, repeated crush loading should prompt the lengthening of a train, but ...

sovereign121

Poor Irish Rail having to deal with inconsiderate crowds boarding their trains. People should know better. Damn the general public. Full of sheeple so it is.

AngryHippie

Its only a matter of time:rolleyes:

flyingsnail

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

My question is, are there no health and safety concerns for Irish Rail here? Apart from the discomfort and the oppressive heat on the train, are there no restrictions to how many passengers they carry at one time for safety reasons?

From the Railway safety commission
http://rsc.ie/faqs/

What is overcrowding?

There are no national or international safety standards regarding the number of passengers that are allowed to travel on a train. Frequently passengers judge overcrowding in terms of comfort, particularly in crush loading situations on suburban trains, though it would be unusual for such conditions to be unsafe. Typically, risk arising from overcrowding does not relate directly to passenger numbers but to secondary impacts such as impairment of effective emergency evacuation.


If you are in a situation where you believe the train you are travelling on to be overcrowded, we suggest that, where possible, a photograph is taken of the level of crowding on the train. This will assist the RSC in investigating the matter.


If you feel a train is overcrowded when it arrives at the platform, you should not board.

Dravokivich

If you feel a train is overcrowded when it arrives at the platform, you should not board.

That's easier to say than do, when you've somewhere to get to and no other means to do it.

foggy_lad

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Chronic over crowding on the 6pm Sligo-Connolly train this evening. The train arrived in Longford with 2 hours to go and people were already standing. Passage ways all blocked, people standing basically in the toilets to try to make room, the train was only 4 carriages. This is the busiest train of the week on this route, I really fail to see how they don't have this train at maximum capacity every week!

My question is, are there no health and safety concerns for Irish Rail here? Apart from the discomfort and the oppressive heat on the train, are there no restrictions to how many passengers they carry at one time for safety reasons?

If we were pigs, sheep or cattle we would be treated better by Irish rail and they would have several agencies checking on our welfare, but as it stands there is nothing stopping them piling more and more humans onto trains.

Emme

foggy_lad wrote: »

If we were pigs, sheep or cattle we would be treated better by Irish rail and they would have several agencies checking on our welfare, but as it stands there is nothing stopping them piling more and more humans onto trains.

I agree 100% here. A farmer told me that if livestock arrives unduly stressed to the factory it affects the meat quality and ultimately the price the farmer gets. So the better farmers make sure not to pile too many livestock on board and they drive carefully to the factory.

In the same say if commuters arrive to their destination (work) stressed, it affects their performance in work.

On a more serious note, the overcrowding is making it more likely that somebody will suffer a heart attack and die on one of the trains.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

If we were pigs, sheep or cattle we would be treated better by Irish rail and they would have several agencies checking on our welfare, but as it stands there is nothing stopping them piling more and more humans onto trains.

No you wouldnt. You wouldnt be allowed to travel.

Jamie2k9

This is the busiest train of the week on this route,

While its busy I don't believe its the "busiest" on the route of the week or even the day in fact.

Hilly Bill

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Chronic over crowding on the 6pm Sligo-Connolly train this evening. The train arrived in Longford with 2 hours to go and people were already standing. Passage ways all blocked, people standing basically in the toilets to try to make room, the train was only 4 carriages. This is the busiest train of the week on this route, I really fail to see how they don't have this train at maximum capacity every week!

My question is, are there no health and safety concerns for Irish Rail here? Apart from the discomfort and the oppressive heat on the train, are there no restrictions to how many passengers they carry at one time for safety reasons?

I'd say it wasnt planned( if it was then it was a stupid idea ) to be a 4 piece but either way its not good to be crowded from Sligo. I heard that it was delayed in Mullingar due to the amount of people on board and the guards had to deal with a passenger.
Once a train is full , would people prefer to be told that they cant board due to health and safety reasons or would they prefer to cram in anyway because they have to get that train? Of course it would be better if the train was long enough for everyone to get a seat but sometimes trains fail and you end up with a shorter train than planned as a result. It happened last week i think on the Dundalk line in the morning, a train failed and a replacement was a 4 piece with the result being the same as what happened to you.

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

While its busy I don't believe its the "busiest" on the route of the week or even the day in fact.

Its pretty full with students going back to Dublin after the weekend and i would agree that it would be the busiest of the day at least. I can only say from the crowds ive seen coming off that train in Dublin.

Jamie2k9

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its pretty full with students going back to Dublin after the weekend and i would agree that it would be the busiest of the day at least. I can only say from the crowds ive seen coming off that train in Dublin.

Could you compare with the 16.30 service?

Indeed students make up big traffic, have the same problems on the 18.05 ex Waterford since November.

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Could you compare with the 16.30 service?

Indeed students make up big traffic, have the same problems on the 18.05 ex Waterford since November.

I couldnt say for certain but the last Sligo seems to be very busy.

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

No you wouldnt. You wouldnt be allowed to travel.

Too stuffed for pigs, but not for humans...

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

Too stuffed for pigs, but not for humans...

Does that mean that pigs have more cop on?

Jamie2k9

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

While its busy I don't believe its the "busiest" on the route of the week or even the day in fact.

Really?? I frequent that route on different days of the week usually getting on in Longford or Dromod and the 6pm is always the busiest from Sligo to Dublin. The 4:30 is also very busy but in my experience the 6pm is the last train and is always jammed with students.
That's the third time within the space of 3 months that I've taken that particular train on a Sunday and it's been completely overcrowded. The 5pm from Dublin to Sligo on a Friday can be very crowded but at least the crowd eases as the route goes on.
What would you say is the busiest train on that route out of interest?

I knew when I was getting on the train that it was going to be packed but it was my only option, everyone's the same. If Irish Rail know they are sending a 4 carriage train for whatever reason and know that it's going to be completely overcrowded why don't they make arrangements to have a coach pick up some of the passengers at some stops to ease the pressure?
I don't think it's right to say oh well people will prefer to get on than be told they can't due to health and safety concerns. That's not exactly the point of health and safety.

It's not life threatening but it's extremely uncomfortable and after shelling out €28 on a ticket I don't think it's acceptable. I've been on trains in the past where I've had to sit on the floor between carriages, it's no big deal. But being crammed shoulder to shoulder in the middle of an aisle just isn't on.

Jamie2k9

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Really?? I frequent that route on different days of the week usually getting on in Longford or Dromod and the 6pm is always the busiest from Sligo to Dublin. The 4:30 is also very busy but in my experience the 6pm is the last train and is always jammed with students.
That's the third time within the space of 3 months that I've taken that particular train on a Sunday and it's been completely overcrowded. The 5pm from Dublin to Sligo on a Friday can be very crowded but at least the crowd eases as the route goes on.
What would you say is the busiest train on that route out of interest?

I knew when I was getting on the train that it was going to be packed but it was my only option, everyone's the same. If Irish Rail know they are sending a 4 carriage train for whatever reason and know that it's going to be completely overcrowded why don't they make arrangements to have a coach pick up some of the passengers at some stops to ease the pressure?
I don't think it's right to say oh well people will prefer to get on than be told they can't due to health and safety concerns. That's not exactly the point of health and safety.

It's not life threatening but it's extremely uncomfortable and after shelling out €28 on a ticket I don't think it's acceptable. I've been on trains in the past where I've had to sit on the floor between carriages, it's no big deal. But being crammed shoulder to shoulder in the middle of an aisle just isn't on.

I don't know honestly which is busier but either the 15.00 or 16.30 at least one of them has 6 piece set operating so clearly it would suggest it might be busier.

Did you book online ticket and if so why didn't you get the person out of your seat?

Have you sent an email to Irish Rail about it not that it would do much good still sending one will hold more weight than this forum.

I didn't book my ticket online no, but regardless I still don't think that level of overcrowding is acceptable. As I said if I didn't book it and I have to sit on the ground between carriages then I'm fine with that.

The last time it happened I sent an email, I was told that the train was the biggest they were able to send due to platform length, that there would nothing more could be done but that it would be raised with the higher ups.

I would happily raise it with the appropriate health and safety authorities.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I'd say it wasnt planned( if it was then it was a stupid idea ) to be a 4 piece but either way its not good to be crowded from Sligo. I heard that it was delayed in Mullingar due to the amount of people on board and the guards had to deal with a passenger.
Once a train is full , would people prefer to be told that they cant board due to health and safety reasons or would they prefer to cram in anyway because they have to get that train? Of course it would be better if the train was long enough for everyone to get a seat but sometimes trains fail and you end up with a shorter train than planned as a result. It happened last week i think on the Dundalk line in the morning, a train failed and a replacement was a 4 piece with the result being the same as what happened to you.

If a train fails and a shorter set has to be used or if any train is overcrowded all the time Irish rail should be providing buses to make sure nobody is left behind and also that all intercity passengers have seats.

foggy_lad

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

I knew when I was getting on the train that it was going to be packed but it was my only option, everyone's the same. If Irish Rail know they are sending a 4 carriage train for whatever reason and know that it's going to be completely overcrowded why don't they make arrangements to have a coach pick up some of the passengers at some stops to ease the pressure?
I don't think it's right to say oh well people will prefer to get on than be told they can't due to health and safety concerns. That's not exactly the point of health and safety.

It's not life threatening but it's extremely uncomfortable and after shelling out €28 on a ticket I don't think it's acceptable. I've been on trains in the past where I've had to sit on the floor between carriages, it's no big deal. But being crammed shoulder to shoulder in the middle of an aisle just isn't on.

The main problem is that Irish rail know people have no choice on the Sligo line so will never change anything, they will make their money no matter what they put into that line. What it will take to get action from Irish rail is for passengers to get organised and boycott the trains altogether or maybe have a sit in or a complete takeover at Connolly station, get the reporters and rate cameras on the case. Basically embarrass Irish rail into providing a better service.

I am not advocating any kind of illegal behaviour!

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I don't know honestly which is busier but either the 15.00 or 16.30 at least one of them has 6 piece set operating so clearly it would suggest it might be busier.

Did you book online ticket and if so why didn't you get the person out of your seat?

Have you sent an email to Irish Rail about it not that it would do much good still sending one will hold more weight than this forum.

If the train was crammed then its a good chance that you wouldnt be able to make it to your seat never mind actually sitting in it.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

If a train fails and a shorter set has to be used or if any train is overcrowded all the time Irish rail should be providing buses to make sure nobody is left behind and also that all intercity passengers have seats.

A ticket doesnt guarantee you a seat, it only allows you to travel from one place to another.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

A ticket doesnt guarantee you a seat, it only allows you to travel from one place to another.

But what Irish rail have ignored to their certain peril is that a ticket on a bus does guarantee a seat as does trading in the seasonal ticket and buying a car!

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

The main problem is that Irish rail know people have no choice on the Sligo line so will never change anything, they will make their money no matter what they put into that line. What it will take to get action from Irish rail is for passengers to get organised and boycott the trains altogether or maybe have a sit in or a complete takeover at Connolly station, get the reporters and rate cameras on the case. Basically embarrass Irish rail into providing a better service.

I am not advocating any kind of illegal behaviour!

If they boycott the trains then the issue of overcrowding will go away and there are only so much trains and carriages to go around. What makes people on the Sligo route any better than other routes?
Of course people on the Sligo line have a choice.

Sounds like advocating illegal behaviour to me Foggy.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

But what Irish rail have ignored to their certain peril is that a ticket on a bus does guarantee a seat as does trading in the seasonal ticket and buying a car!

Maybe Irish Rail should stop people from boarding their trains once all the seats are taken then. That wont go down well now will it.

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Does that mean that pigs have more cop on?

Means the sharpest tools are the staff at IE

sovereign121

Jaysus lads, ye should all apply for job's in Irish Rail, I'm sure with ye're vast knowledge ye would quickly sort it all out. Take the train or make alterior arrangements. In the mean time shut up whinging. Be worse if ye didn't get there safely. And yes despite the fact ye had to have the inconvenience of standing proves ye got there safely. Have yet to hear of people being crushed to death on trains in this country. It happened when????? Ya I thought so. Sorry to break it to ye but Sligo is of little importance in the greater scheme of railway activity in this country. It's hardly a metropolitan mecca now is it???

Victor

n97 mini wrote: »

Means the sharpest tools are the staff at IE

What is this meant to mean?

Moderator

Emme

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Does that mean that pigs have more cop on?

No, it means farmers have more cop on than Irish Rail.

Hilly Bill

Emme wrote: »

No, it means farmers have more cop on than Irish Rail.

Travel in the back of one of them trucks and then come back to me .

No Pants

Take pictures of the conditions every time you're on such an overcrowded train. Send them to the newspapers, news/current affairs websites, Irish Rail and the responsible government minister at the time. It may shame them into doing something, or because if there's ever an accident on that train, it'll be compo all round as the people in charge will have been aware of the situation.

Hilly Bill

How are you going to take pictures on such an overcrowded train? you wont be able to take your hand out of your pocket.

Grandeeod

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How are you going to take pictures on such an overcrowded train? you wont be able to take your hand out of your pocket.

That's just making fun of the people who have expressed concern on this thread.

Hilly Bill

Grandeeod wrote: »

That's just making fun of the people who have expressed concern on this thread.

No its not.

No Pants

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How are you going to take pictures on such an overcrowded train? you wont be able to take your hand out of your pocket.

At the door or before it gets so crowded. In any case, I doubt that it gets so crowded that one can't get a hand in or out of your own pocket.

Hilly Bill

No Pants wrote: »

At the door or before it gets so crowded. In any case, I doubt that it gets so crowded that one can't get a hand in or out of your own pocket.

In that case then there isn't an issue of overcrowding.

Ive seen trains that packed No Pants, one which was reported on here by one of our resident posters.

L1011

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Maybe Irish Rail should stop people from boarding their trains once all the seats are taken then. That wont go down well now will it.

Works fine on buses, planes, cars, indeed every other form of transport.

Irish Rail need to realise that what is acceptable on extremely short distance commuter trains is NOT acceptable for medium to long distance travel. Constantly defending it as if it is rather than fixing the issue is probably the number one way to ensure that people are going to refuse to use them.

Hilly Bill

MYOB wrote: »

Works fine on buses, planes, cars, indeed every other form of transport.

Irish Rail need to realise that what is acceptable on extremely short distance commuter trains is NOT acceptable for medium to long distance travel. Constantly defending it as if it is rather than fixing the issue is probably the number one way to ensure that people are going to refuse to use them.

I agree with what you are saying there but try and tell a load of people that they cant get that train because of all the seats are taken and they will have to try the next one. I would guess that a Commuter train wouldn't be an issue then if they were allowed to board it and they all got on and away home.
Ideally it would be extra carriages for extra passengers but i cant see it changing much soon.

No Pants

Hilly Bill wrote: »

In that case then there isn't an issue of overcrowding.

Is that the criteria that we're going to use to establish whether a train is overcrowded or not?

Q: Can you get your hand in and out of your own pocket? Yes/No.

ajjmk

I have been taking the last train from Sligo to Dublin every Sunday for the last four years, and I have never seen it as busy as it was on last Sunday the 2nd. When my sister and I attempted to board the train in Dromod, we had to walk the whole length of the train before we could find a door we could actually get through, as there were so many people standing in the doorways. There were even four people standing in the bathroom on the carriage I boarded!

By Edgesworthtown the whole length of the carriages were full of people standing tightly together. I was talking to a girl standing near me and she said she had gotten on in Boyle and all of the seats were gone at that stage.

I took a few pictures and emailed Irish Rail with a complaint and received the following back:

Thank you for your e-mail.
I am sorry for the considerable discomfort experienced on the 18.00hrs service from Sligo last Sunday 2nd February.
Due to severe financial constraints we have reduced capacity on some services but passenger travel patterns are being monitored.
Our Operations Management are reviewing current arrangements to see where improvements can be made and the 18.00hrs service from Sligo on Sundays is a priority for increase in capacity. However, there are a number of issues in regard to train Maintenance arrangements and carriage movements which need to be sorted first before the increase in capacity can be confirmed.
Regards

Yesterday, instead of the usual Intercity train which has been serving this route since the timetable change last year, there was a Commuter train. There was a reasonable amount of space, however I noticed much fewer passengers boarded the train this week compared to last. I don't know if the conditions last week made people use alternative transport or if this was just a coincidence.

LXFlyer

I suspect that the issue last week was the small matter of the Ireland-v-Scotland rugby international which kicked off at 15:00, and that many people who might usually take earlier trains stayed at home to watch the match and then went out for the 18:00, and hence it was overcrowded.

No Pants

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying there but try and tell a load of people that they cant get that train because of all the seats are taken and they will have to try the next one. I would guess that a Commuter train wouldn't be an issue then if they were allowed to board it and they all got on and away home.
Ideally it would be extra carriages for extra passengers but i cant see it changing much soon.

Or maybe they could only sell the same number of tickets that they have seats for.

Emme

No Pants wrote: »

Or maybe they could only sell the same number of tickets that they have seats for.

Passengers aren't guaranteed a seat but commuter trains aren't designed for prolonged standing.

As an aside, why is Hilly Bill so obsessed with being able to get his hand into his pocket?

somesoldiers

Billiards

DesperateDan

Everyone should blitz tweet them complaining with the time of the journey, maybe they will pay attention if every week they are bombarded with bad press, because they are very active on twitter

Copyerselveson

DesperateDan wrote: »

Everyone should blitz tweet them complaining with the time of the journey, maybe they will pay attention if every week they are bombarded with bad press, because they are very active on twitter

I like the sound of passenger action via tweets - but the cold hard reality is that Irish Rail are having to spend less money so can't afford to run longer trains than they used to.

Hilly Bill

No Pants wrote: »

Is that the criteria that we're going to use to establish whether a train is overcrowded or not?

Q: Can you get your hand in and out of your own pocket? Yes/No.

Sounds good to me . What if something happened and you were asked as to why you didnt press the button to alert the driver? telling them that you would have loved to have done but you couldnt get your hand out of your pocket to do it would be an eye opener to them.

ajjmk wrote: »

I have been taking the last train from Sligo to Dublin every Sunday for the last four years, and I have never seen it as busy as it was on last Sunday the 2nd. When my sister and I attempted to board the train in Dromod, we had to walk the whole length of the train before we could find a door we could actually get through, as there were so many people standing in the doorways. There were even four people standing in the bathroom on the carriage I boarded!

By Edgesworthtown the whole length of the carriages were full of people standing tightly together. I was talking to a girl standing near me and she said she had gotten on in Boyle and all of the seats were gone at that stage.

I took a few pictures and emailed Irish Rail with a complaint and received the following back:



Yesterday, instead of the usual Intercity train which has been serving this route since the timetable change last year, there was a Commuter train. There was a reasonable amount of space, however I noticed much fewer passengers boarded the train this week compared to last. I don't know if the conditions last week made people use alternative transport or if this was just a coincidence.

I'd say a bit of both with a good few not wanting a repeat experience.

No Pants wrote: »

Or maybe they could only sell the same number of tickets that they have seats for.

That would lead to more complaints of people not been allowed to travel on a train that they always get.

Emme wrote: »

Passengers aren't guaranteed a seat but commuter trains aren't designed for prolonged standing.

As an aside, why is Hilly Bill so obsessed with being able to get his hand into his pocket?

very strange comment .

somesoldiers wrote: »

Billiards

It does come in handy when you want to count to 11

DesperateDan wrote: »

Everyone should blitz tweet them complaining with the time of the journey, maybe they will pay attention if every week they are bombarded with bad press, because they are very active on twitter

They are already aware of the ongoing issues and a few tweets wont change anything.

Emme

Hilly Bill wrote: »

very strange comment .

No more strange or bizarre than using the measure of getting your hand into your pocket (or not) as an indicator of overcrowding on commuter trains.

Hilly Bill

Emme wrote: »

No more strange or bizarre than using the measure of getting your hand into your pocket (or not) as an indicator of overcrowding on commuter trains.

I think you may have jumped in before you understood the context of what was posted.

Emme

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I think you may have jumped in before you understood the context of what was posted.

I certainly understood the measure of what was posted and it is ridiculous. If a train was crowded to such an extent that passengers couldn't get their hands into the pockets then several people would suffocate and/or sustain crush injuries.

It is clear that Irish Rail do not care about their passengers. They know that people have no choice so they profit on this in the most cynical way possible by cramming more and more people onto smaller and smaller trains. Travelling in discomfort day in day out isn't good enough with the prices we pay.

It wouldn't surprise me if some staff in Irish Rail are having a laugh at passenger complaints. They certainly don't take passengers seriously.

Somebody suggested taking photographs of overcrowding and sending them into newspapers.

That has been done already. Also people don't like having their photographs taken by strangers and put in the public domain.