Airtricity Took DD After Bill Paid

darrenw5094

I received my Airtricity bill back in January. The bill was for €186, the due payment date was 24th of January. I paid the bill in full in the post office on the 20th of January. Four days later, on the 24th, Airtricity still came into my account and took the €186 again via DD. This account i use for DD's for other bills where i have the exact amount in every month for those. With the unexpected Airtricity DD, my account is short for my usual DD's and i will be charged €10 for every DD that cannot be covered in payments.

I know that the second €186 will be credited to my account for the next bill, but i need that money back into the account to cover my usual DD's.

Can this be done or am i smoked?

Does that Airtricity feck up happen to other people?

sandin

If you signed a direct debit why did you pay manually? - this seems to be entirely your fault.

A payment in a post office can take up to 5 days to appear on your account ( this is stated on bills) also due to the automatic nature of the direct debit system, it can't be suddenly changed just because you wanted to do it a different way.

dudara

A company will issue DD instructions several days in advance to their bank. As you paid within 4 days of the due date, you fell within that window. You really shouldn't have done that.

Anyway, under the new SEPA DD rules, you can instruct your bank to return the DD within 6 weeks of it being taken. I don't know long it will take to get the money back.

darrenw5094

sandin wrote: »

If you signed a direct debit why did you pay manually? - this seems to be entirely your fault.

A payment in a post office can take up to 5 days to appear on your account ( this is stated on bills) also due to the automatic nature of the direct debit system, it can't be suddenly changed just because you wanted to do it a different way.

I didn't know about the 5 day thing to be honest. I paid in the post office because it's right beside me and i had the money then.

Obviously i will have to go into the bank and reverse the DD as dudara has stated.

Knob Longman

I'm in the same boat, Airtricity are some shower of ghoulbags, I paid 6 days in advance of DD, Its actully all to do with SEPA...

Knob Longman

darrenw5094 wrote: »

I didn't know about the 5 day thing to be honest. I paid in the post office because it's right beside me and i had the money then.

Obviously i will have to go into the bank and reverse the DD as dudara has stated.

Its now 9 days because of this new crap SEPA..

darrenw5094

Knob Longman wrote: »

Its now 9 days because of this new crap SEPA..

What does that mean exactly? And what is SEPA?

Femme_Fatale

New direct debit system, which allows people with non Irish bank accounts to set up a direct debit. IBAN used instead of just sort code and bank account.

Knob Longman wrote: »

I'm in the same boat, Airtricity are some shower of ghoulbags, I paid 6 days in advance of DD, Its actully all to do with SEPA...

How are Airtricity ghoulbags if it's because of SEPA?

dudara

SEPA (Single Euro Payments Area) is a new electronic payments mechanism introduced within the Euro zone. It's not just confined to direct debits, but the biggest changes from SEPA are in the area of direct debits.

Irrespective, if you are signed up for direct debit, it's always best to let the payment be taken that way. What happened here had nothing to do with Airtricity, it could have happened with any provider.

anewme

The whole idea of setting up a Direct Debit is that it is debited from your account and you dont have to remember to pay it every month.

They dont look at every single account every month and say, oh we will take the money this month, because he does not have appeared to have paid it????

I dont understand how the OP thought them taking the DD was unexpected......they take it every other month??

keithclancy

Knob Longman wrote: »

Its now 9 days because of this new crap SEPA..

SEPA is a great step forward.

I've been using it for some years now, means I can have a Dutch Bank account, get paid from my German employer into my Dutch account and pay my Irish Credit card bill as easily as if it lived and worked in one country and you pay the same for a SEPA transfer as a local transfer

The one exception is the UK, the banks can put some additional charges on SEPA transfers due to the currency difference.

But the upside is that you could go work abroad in say Germany and just run everything off your Irish bank account without having to set an account up locally (Although Irish banks are not fantastic for online services tbh)

darrenw5094

anewme wrote: »

The whole idea of setting up a Direct Debit is that it is debited from your account and you dont have to remember to pay it every month.

They dont look at every single account every month and say, oh we will take the money this month, because he does not have appeared to have paid it????

I dont understand how the OP thought them taking the DD was unexpected......they take it every other month??

I assumed once i paid via the post office, that the DD therefore would not happen. I was unaware of the 5 day clearance thing.

So, it looks like the post office will be axed for me and the DD is the only way to go now.

If this SEPA thing takes 9 days to clear, that could cause other people some problems like this too. But, surely the positives are greater than the negatives with it, otherwise it wouldn't have been brought in.

Knob Longman

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

New direct debit system, which allows people with non Irish bank accounts to set up a direct debit. IBAN used instead of just sort code and bank account.

How are Airtricity ghoulbags if it's because of SEPA?

SEPA is not to come into operation till Feb 1st yet Airtricity still took my money, And btw SEPA is for Europe not just Ireland..9 days to clear, Like something from the 1800's..

Knob Longman

anewme wrote: »

The whole idea of setting up a Direct Debit is that it is debited from your account and you dont have to remember to pay it every month.

They dont look at every single account every month and say, oh we will take the money this month, because he does not have appeared to have paid it????

I dont understand how the OP thought them taking the DD was unexpected......they take it every other month??

So explain to us please why Airtricity claim on their site that any payments made up to 5 days in advance are taking into account regarding the DD...

Yawns

Knob Longman wrote: »

SEPA is not to come into operation till Feb 1st yet Airtricity still took my money, And btw SEPA is for Europe not just Ireland..9 days to clear, Like something from the 1800's..

Even under the old system any payments made within 5 working days wouldn't come off the bill and would be applied as credit on his next bill. So he paid his bill 4 days before it was due out of his bank acc in which time it was too late to come off his current bill.

Yawns

Knob Longman wrote: »

So explain to us please why Airtricity claim on their site that any payments made up to 5 days in advance are taking into account regarding the DD...

This is from the Airtricity page if I wanted to make a payment on my bill today

Payments made 6 working days before your direct debit date will be deducted from this amount and any remainder charged as normal. Payments made after this will be credited towards your next bill.

I thought it was 5, but they have 6. Still seems fairly normal. So any payment made within 6 days of the DD being due will go off his next bill. Simple enough. This is up for a change under SEPA now tho it will be a longer window.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Knob Longman wrote: »

So explain to us please why Airtricity claim on their site that any payments made up to 5 days in advance are taking into account regarding the DD...

Perhaps because the OP only gave them 4 days Max!!!

dudara

Knob Longman wrote: »

SEPA is not to come into operation till Feb 1st yet Airtricity still took my money..

Lots of companies are already using SEPA and have been doing so for a few years. I've built and tested SEPA files in 2010 and I implemented a system in 2012 where we built SEPA formats. The February 2014 date was supposed to be the deadline for all payments to be switched to SEPA, i.e. the old BACS format shouldn't exist afterwards for EUR payments

Knob Longman

Kennedi Deep Ballpark wrote: »

Perhaps because the OP only gave them 4 days Max!!!

I paid 6 days in advance and still got ganked..Although I understand I have 8 wks to reclaim the money back no questions asked so that's what I'll be doing tomorrow.

No Pants

darrenw5094 wrote: »

I assumed

I think I've found the problem.

Jet Black

The great thing about sepa is that you can get the direct debit refunded onto you account. No more of the bs of having to try and get them to give you your money back.

MagicMarker

Knob Longman wrote: »

I paid 6 days in advance and still got ganked..Although I understand I have 8 wks to reclaim the money back no questions asked so that's what I'll be doing tomorrow.

6 working days?

Mushy

I'm having the opposite trouble. First direct debit was supposed to be paid 10th January (deposit of €200). It didn't work, I asked why. Response was they were changing the system, nothing to do with my account, new date is 28th January. On comes the 30th January, new bill for an extra €300, making it €500 total, €200 which is overdue. Look at my bank account, nothing taken out.

I emailed them about it on Friday, so still awaiting a response. I can only assume it was an error on their behalf, and that the €300 will be written off. I even offered to pay the €200 deposit upfront after the first failed DD. Bill is due to come in 15th January, thats why I was shocked to see one 2 weeks early.

As for the OP, you paid too early yourself, it advises you not to do that!

No Pants

Jet Black wrote: »

No more of the bs of having to try and get them to give you your money back.

Was there not always a direct debit guarantee in place?

darrenw5094

Mushy wrote: »

As for the OP, you paid too early yourself, it advises you not to do that!

As i actually wanted to pay via the post office, it looks like i was too late with the payment, not early enough.

No Pants wrote:

I think I've found the problem.

Probably shouldn't have assumed

BrianHenryIE

anewme wrote: »

The whole idea of setting up a Direct Debit is that it is debited from your account and you dont have to remember to pay it every month.

They dont look at every single account every month and say, oh we will take the money this month, because he does not have appeared to have paid it????

I dont understand how the OP thought them taking the DD was unexpected......they take it every other month??

The same thing happened me with Electric Ireland. The reason I went with Direct Debit was to avoid paying a €200 deposit. I live in shared accommodation and so cash has to be lodged to my account to pay.

All this is dealt with by computers. They can look at every account hundreds of times per day if they want. There's nothing technical preventing a DD request being sent to the bank the day before and there's no technical reason it should take multiple days for a cash payment to be processed.

OP thought the DD was unexpected because the bill had been paid in cash a few days earlier. It's completely reasonable to pay your bills early if you have the money.

spcw

If you request the bank to refund a SEPA payment they must make the refund immediately and without question under sepa rules unless ("which is unlikely") you signed a waiver.

darrenw5094

brian.henry wrote: »

OP thought the DD was unexpected because the bill had been paid in cash a few days earlier. It's completely reasonable to pay your bills early if you have the money.

That is exactly the reason why i paid through the post office with cash. One bill down, few more to go.:)

Shakespeare's Sister

brian.henry wrote: »

There's nothing technical preventing a DD request being sent to the bank the day before

But companies don't. They send the requests off in bulk. These are thousands and thousands of direct debit payments. And you think a random customer here and there should have an exception made for them and that the company should be inspired to know that they paid early? Not to mention the bank also?

If you agree to pay by direct debit, then you're not saying "I'll sign up for direct debit but I'll actually pay manually."
I know the customer can still actually do this, and may as well if they have the money early and don't want a direct debit going out when they might have less funds at that stage... but the onus is on them (not the company/bank) to have it cleared sufficiently in advance of the direct debit.

It's bizarre the things people say in order to abdicate personal responsibility.

Mushy

darrenw5094 wrote: »

As i actually wanted to pay via the post office, it looks like i was too late with the payment, not early enough.

Yeah that would be correct, I just worded it wrongly.

BrianHenryIE

Magaggie wrote: »

But companies don't. They send the requests off in bulk. These are thousands and thousands of direct debit payments. And you think a random customer here and there should have an exception made for them and that the company should be inspired to know that they paid early? Not to mention the bank also?

If you agree to pay by direct debit, then you're not saying "I'll sign up for direct debit but I'll actually pay manually."
I know the customer can still actually do this, and may as well if they have the money early and don't want a direct debit going out when they might have less funds at that stage... but the onus is on them (not the company/bank) to have it cleared sufficiently in advance of the direct debit.

It's bizarre the things people say in order to abdicate personal responsibility.

• There's no reason the DD bulk request can't be done the day before. NONE.
• The company doesn't need to be inspired. It's a computer that does this. It's simple.
• So the company probably recognises this as normal behaviour.
• It's a scam. People should be able to pay early up to the day before the DD. Any delay is artificially introduced by the company and/or bank.
• He was paying it early! He should be rewarded not punished because the company can't implement a decent IT system. Or chooses artificial time constraints which result in extra fees to people's accounts.

MagicMarker

brian.henry wrote: »

• There's no reason the DD bulk request can't be done the day before. NONE.
• The company doesn't need to be inspired. It's a computer that does this. It's simple.
• So the company probably recognises this as normal behaviour.
• It's a scam. People should be able to pay early up to the day before the DD. Any delay is artificially introduced by the company and/or bank.
• He was paying it early! He should be rewarded not punished because the company can't implement a decent IT system. Or chooses artificial time constraints which result in extra fees to people's accounts.

In this case it would have made no difference had Airtricity sent the DD bulk request the day before (for all we know that's what they did anyway). The OP paid the bill in the PO 4 days before the DD, meaning it still wouldn't have registered on their Airtricity account in time.

The only person at fault here is the OP. Airtricity clearly outline the time frame required for payments made in the PO. To call it a scam is just hyperbolic nonsense tbh.

BrianHenryIE

MagicMarker wrote: »

In this case it would have made no difference had Airtricity sent the DD bulk request the day before (for all we know that's what they did anyway). The OP paid the bill in the PO 4 days before the DD, meaning it still wouldn't have registered on their Airtricity account in time.

The only person at fault here is the OP. Airtricity clearly outline the time frame required for payments made in the PO. To call it a scam is just hyperbolic nonsense tbh.

It wouldn't have registered because their IT systems are set up to not send across that information immediately. This is all about the interaction of IT systems that could easily work as they should.

As soon as the money is accepted in the Post Office there is no reason the company it is being sent to shouldn't know about it. If there is, please enlighten me.

MagicMarker

brian.henry wrote: »

It wouldn't have registered because their IT systems are set up to not send across that information immediately. This is all about the interaction of IT systems that could easily work as they should.

As soon as the money is accepted in the Post Office there is no reason the company it is being sent to shouldn't know about it. If there is, please enlighten me.

Well why don't you enlighten me as it doesn't seem like any utilities company in the country has this kind of system in place?

Do you know of any company that has this capability?

I don't think it really makes a difference, it's up to Airtricity to decide how they manage their own internal systems, as long as they make it known their limitations then it's still not a scam in any sense of the word.

Shakespeare's Sister

brian.henry wrote: »

There's no reason the DD bulk request can't be done the day before. NONE.

I'll just have to take your word for it - and assume you work in a bank to be so certain of same.

But anyway, the DD bulk request isn't done the day before, so that point is moot.

darrenw5094

If it now takes up to 9 days to clear a payment through the post office for an Airtricity bill, then the only realistic way to pay is with the bank DD. Otherwise we will be paying the bill twice in the same week, although the second payment is credited to my Airtricity account for the next bill.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

darrenw5094 wrote: »

If it now takes up to 9 days to clear a payment through the post office for an Airtricity bill, then the only realistic way to pay is with the bank DD. Otherwise we will be paying the bill twice in the same week, although the second payment is credited to my Airtricity account for the next bill.

I just don't get this. Why pay in the post office 9 days early if you have signed up for DD? Why then complain when between the PO processing it, the bank processing it, airtricity processing the receipt and the issue of the DD demand it crosses with all this?
If you signed DD then pay DD. That's the promise and commitment you gave the supplier when signing up and were spared a deposit as a result. You undertook to pay by DD so just do so.

darrenw5094

Kennedi Deep Ballpark wrote: »

I just don't get this. Why pay in the post office 9 days early if you have signed up for DD? Why then complain when between the PO processing it, the bank processing it, airtricity processing the receipt and the issue of the DD demand it crosses with all this?
If you signed DD then pay DD. That's the promise and commitment you gave the supplier when signing up and were spared a deposit as a result. You undertook to pay by DD so just do so.

Well first of all, i wasn't aware of the 5 day processing thing and secondly Airtricity make payment possible via the post office, which i prefer because it's more convenient.

Signing up with Airtricity is only possible with DD even though they give you more options to pay.

Cabaal

Knob Longman wrote: »

I paid 6 days in advance and still got ganked..Although I understand I have 8 wks to reclaim the money back no questions asked so that's what I'll be doing tomorrow.

6 working days?
Remember the weekend and bank holidays don't count,

Cabaal

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Airtricity make payment possible via the post office, which i prefer because it's more convenient..

Yes and they list this on their website.

http://www.airtricity.com/ie/home/products/electricity

Start paying your bill before you get it

You don't need to wait for a bill to begin paying it. You can make top-up payments into your account at any time, and payments received up to 5 days before the end of your billing period will appear as a credit on your bill. Payments after this will still be credited to your account within 3 working days, but will be listed on your next bill.

If you pay your bills by Direct Debit, any payments you make up to 6 working days before your bill is due to be paid will be taken off your direct debit amount. Any remainder will then be charged by direct debit as normal.

You only gave them 4 working days so they weren't at fault,

Signing up with Airtricity is only possible with DD even though they give you more options to pay.

Not true,
You can choose to not use DD but you may loose out on a part of any discount they offer and you may need to pay a deposit. But this is pretty much the same with many of the other power companys'.

Thoie

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Well first of all, i wasn't aware of the 5 day processing thing and secondly Airtricity make payment possible via the post office, which i prefer because it's more convenient.

Signing up with Airtricity is only possible with DD even though they give you more options to pay.

Many post offices allow you to lodge money to bank accounts. If your post office and bank account have this facility, maybe in future just lodge the money to the DD account, rather than paying the bill? The DD will take it from that account anyway, and from your perspective the cash has gone into the post office, and the bill ends up paid.

darrenw5094

Thoie wrote: »

Many post offices allow you to lodge money to bank accounts. If your post office and bank account have this facility, maybe in future just lodge the money to the DD account, rather than paying the bill? The DD will take it from that account anyway, and from your perspective the cash has gone into the post office, and the bill ends up paid.

Thanks for the info, i didn't realise this.

homemadecider

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Well first of all, i wasn't aware of the 5 day processing thing and secondly Airtricity make payment possible via the post office, which i prefer because it's more convenient.

Signing up with Airtricity is only possible with DD even though they give you more options to pay.

How on earth is it 'more convenient' to physically go to a post office, queue up and then pay in cash versus letting a direct debit automatically take the money owed from your account? You can ensure the money is in the account via online banking.

foggy_lad

Jet Black wrote: »

The great thing about sepa is that you can get the direct debit refunded onto you account. No more of the bs of having to try and get them to give you your money back.

Try getting your bank to agree to putting the funds back on your account, they often refuse to do this now when payments are disputed incorrect or unauthorised so I can't see it getting any easier.

darrenw5094

homemadecider wrote: »

How on earth is it 'more convenient' to physically go to a post office, queue up and then pay in cash versus letting a direct debit automatically take the money owed from your account? You can ensure the money is in the account via online banking.

1st, the post office is beside me, bank is 3-4 miles away.
2nd, no que in the post office
3rd, i don't get paid through the bank, cash work
4th, i don't have online banking

It's easier for me, i can pay when i have the money available.

homemadecider

darrenw5094 wrote: »

1st, the post office is beside me, bank is 3-4 miles away.
2nd, no que in the post office
3rd, i don't get paid through the bank, cash work
4th, i don't have online banking

It's easier for me, i can pay when i have the money available.

Eh... then don't sign up for direct debit payments!

Cabaal

homemadecider wrote: »

Eh... then don't sign up for direct debit payments!

He could, but then he'd have to pay a deposit....which he obviously didn't want to do.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Cabaal wrote: »

He could, but then he'd have to pay a deposit....which he obviously didn't want to do.

Agreed fully but then he can't complain when the playing about with both methods causes problems. Best of both worlds rarely works out.

darrenw5094

homemadecider wrote: »

Eh... then don't sign up for direct debit payments!

Well, it was not an option really.:)

muffler

Cabaal wrote: »

He could, but then he'd have to pay a deposit....which he obviously didn't want to do.

Deposit?

Am I missing something here? The OP stated that he did in fact sign up for direct debits, did he not?

Fred Swanson

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