Glanbia-no shares required!

TheSunderz

yer thoughts on this? Getting closer to a free market? Do they fear of losing suppliers to other co-ops?

Milked out

Could be that they are looking to gain suppliers more than lose as current suppliers I am assuming have share already. If a new entrant or taking over the home farm and the parent wishes to hold the shares it would take a bit of pressure off, however if established twud be no harm to have shares in your co-op, at least they may be worth something at a later date, etc. who knows what may happen in the future

mahoney_j

TheSunderz wrote: »

yer thoughts on this? Getting closer to a free market? Do they fear of losing suppliers to other co-ops?

Lucky fookers!!!,I'm an Arrabawn supplier and we've to shell out 2500 euro for every 100 k Ltrs owned between now and 2015 .this then rises to 3500 for 20% above that and 5 k for over that.there is a bonus share scheme in place which incentives u to buy meal from them by offering 1 share for every 100 euro of feed purchased.

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Lucky fookers!!!,I'm an Arrabawn supplier and we've to shell out 2500 euro for every 100 k Ltrs owned between now and 2015 .this then rises to 3500 for 20% above that and 5 k for over that.there is a bonus share scheme in place which incentives u to buy meal from them by offering 1 share for every 100 euro of feed purchased.

You're close to Glanbia!!! I forecast a change with your crew. Glanbia have really put the cat among the pigeons.

keep going

Hope we can continue with the share scheme in carbery.I'd put all the money I could with them- no other investment thats so safe is returning so much 8 % growth last year

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

You're close to Glanbia!!! I forecast a change with your crew. Glanbia have really put the cat among the pigeons.

Close alright and there becoming active around here selling meal and fertliser too.cant see ant climb down from our crew though,money is been deducted since last summer every month.why the reversal from Glanbia,and u surely have to sign sone sort of a supply contract with them??

delaval

keep going wrote: »

Hope we can continue with the share scheme in carbery.I'd put all the money I could with them- no other investment thats so safe is returning so much 8 % growth last year

Ditto for Glanbia. One clear message "no new shares being issued", I for one will continue to invest as funds allow

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Close alright and there becoming active around here selling meal and fertliser too.cant see ant climb down from our crew though,money is been deducted since last summer every month.why the reversal from Glanbia,and u surely have to sign sone sort of a supply contract with them??

Yes 5 yr agreement (contract) with 2 yrs notice at the end, so 7 yr commitment.

In all a fairy benign agreement. (Watch me get savaged again)!!!!

Viewtodiefor

delaval wrote: »

Ditto for Glanbia. One clear message "no new shares being issued", I for one will continue to invest as funds allow

Are you buying co-op shares or plc ones? If co-op is It possible to buy now?

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

You're close to Glanbia!!! I forecast a change with your crew. Glanbia have really put the cat among the pigeons.

The gentleman's agreement is gone the way of the dodo as of today.

kevthegaff

i think arrabawn will rise their price or scrap the shares to litres produced if they are to compete with Glanbia, if they dont thy will lose alot of farmers, my friend who produces big is thinking of moving. For me better the devil ye know until i see any more developments!

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

i think arrabawn will rise their price or scrap the shares to litres produced if they are to compete with Glanbia, if they dont thy will lose alot of farmers, my friend who produces big is thinking of moving. For me better the devil ye know until i see any more developments!

I'd be thinking along same lines as you Kev but Arrabawn share system is board approved and funds are been taken every month from those who need to up there shareholding.

delaval

kevthegaff wrote: »

i think arrabawn will rise their price or scrap the shares to litres produced if they are to compete with Glanbia, if they dont thy will lose alot of farmers, my friend who produces big is thinking of moving. For me better the devil ye know until i see any more developments!

Kev I'd be inclined to agree with you. There's going to be a bit of pushing and shoving followed by huffing and puffing for a while, I'd hang tough and see how the dust settles

milkprofit

freedominacup wrote: »

The gentleman's agreement is gone the way of the dodo as of today.

As a share holder GLANBIA have to take my milk
What benefit is a five year contract to me

delaval

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Are you buying co-op shares or plc ones? If co-op is It possible to buy now?

If you saw my portfolio I'd be the last person to ask about any Plc share, I'd have a better chance making money from fattening Jex bulls:mad:

Glanbia share trading is closed for the moment but transfers are still possible. It will open again in the near future

delaval

milkprofit wrote: »

As a share holder GLANBIA have to take my milk
What benefit is a five year contract to me

100% correct you can refuse to sign contract and they are oblidged to collect your milk as a share holder

It's a lot easier for the company to operater if they have an idea of how much people are going to supply. From the meetings I attended I see no reason not to sign however I've not see the document

freedominacup

milkprofit wrote: »

As a share holder GLANBIA have to take my milk
What benefit is a five year contract to me

That's not the gentleman's agreement I wad referring to.

Brown Podzol

delaval wrote: »

Yes 5 yr agreement (contract) with 2 yrs notice at the end, so 7 yr commitment.

In all a fairy benign agreement. (Watch me get savaged again)!!!!

Compared to the Dairygold contract. Seven year contract with two year notice.

Four cent per litre share requirement.
.5 cent /litre above 75k litres per year into revolving fund for seven years, attracting 3month Euribor +2.5% interest. So subsidised finance.

Neither the share up or the revolving fund contributions are claimable against tax so must be funded out of after tax income.:eek:

Brown Podzol

freedominacup wrote: »

That's not the gentleman's agreement I wad referring to.

Elmer Fudd.:P

kevthegaff

Lads would ye reckon this competition between co-ops will result in better prices or a monopoly in which the smaller co ops will be taken over??

delaval

kevthegaff wrote: »

Lads would ye reckon this competition between co-ops will result in better prices or a monopoly in which the smaller co ops will be taken over??

I don't think that as much switching as people think will happen. What I expect is more milk to be processed in fewer sites in the short to medium term. I can't understand why smaller outfits feel the need to build when milk can be put through another plant for a fee.

Centenary and Callan coops are a perfect example.

Brown Podzol

kevthegaff wrote: »

Lads would ye reckon this competition between co-ops will result in better prices or a monopoly in which the smaller co ops will be taken over??

I don't think there will be much switching but anyone starting from scratch within striking distance of a Glanbia tanker would on the face of it be much better off going with Glanbia.

manjou

Maybe its my years of dealing with meat factories but seems like shaking bucket to get cattle in and when there in slam gate behind them load onto lorry and straight to slaughter.If they get enough milk whats to stop them just dropping price whenever they want because if your locked into and cant out.

delaval

manjou wrote: »

Maybe its my years of dealing with meat factories but seems like shaking bucket to get cattle in and when there in slam gate behind them load onto lorry and straight to slaughter.If they get enough milk whats to stop them just dropping price whenever they want because if your locked into and cant out.

I am glad all business don't behave like meat factories Thankfully the milk industry has proven that cooperation actually can work

milkprofit

delaval wrote: »

100% correct you can refuse to sign contract and they are oblidged to collect your milk as a share holder

u have to predict supply for 3 years in advance == no problem

It's a lot easier for the company to operater if they have an idea of how much people are going to supply. From the meetings I attended I see no reason not to sign however I've not see the document

Would u sign a contract to supply milk with no guarantee on price
U could be forced to supply milk at a loss eg 2009
i dont think any solicitor would agree with this

delaval

milkprofit wrote: »

Would u sign a contract to supply milk with no guarantee on price
U could be forced to supply milk at a loss eg 2009
i dont think any solicitor would agree with this

I would. I may take a piece of the fixed price to cover some of my costs.

I am of course commenting having not read the agreement. I may take a different view after reading.

I know it's a real politicians answer but its how I see it at the moment.

There will be price rises and falls like there have been since 06. I would be very slow to sign if the agreement was with the Plc

milkprofit

delav get your solicitors opinion and let us know what he says

mahoney_j

milkprofit wrote: »

Would u sign a contract to supply milk with no guarantee on price
U could be forced to supply milk at a loss eg 2009
i dont think any solicitor would agree with this

No co op can give a medium to long term guarantee on milk price as the world market now dictates that.vast majority of farmers in the country produced at a loss in 09 as that was where the market was and it didn't matter wether u were a Glanbia,Arrabawn dairygold or whatever supplier u just had to plough on as best u can.

delaval

milkprofit wrote: »

delav get your solicitors opinion and let us know what he says

I will, but who will I send the bill to, Relig?ha

MP, have you a copy of an agreement as I've not seen one yet?

milkprofit

I saw a draft but have no copy

No co op can give a medium to long term guarantee on milk price as the world market now dictates that.vast majority of farmers in the country produced at a loss in 09 as that was where the market was and it didn't matter wether u were a Glanbia,Arrabawn dairygold or whatever supplier u just had to plough on as best u can.

I not a fool i understand this
u missing my point

I will not sign a contract that i might have to supply at a loss
no business would

delaval

milkprofit wrote: »

I saw a draft but have no copy

No co op can give a medium to long term guarantee on milk price as the world market now dictates that.vast majority of farmers in the country produced at a loss in 09 as that was where the market was and it didn't matter wether u were a Glanbia,Arrabawn dairygold or whatever supplier u just had to plough on as best u can.

I not a fool i understand this
u missing my point

I will not sign a contract that i might have to supply at a loss
no business would

I take your point. If there is a drop in price do you not think it'll be with all purchasers or just GIIL?

Would you be thinking along the lines of not signing and switching to another buyer if the dudu hits the fan?

mahoney_j

milkprofit wrote: »

I saw a draft but have no copy

No co op can give a medium to long term guarantee on milk price as the world market now dictates that.vast majority of farmers in the country produced at a loss in 09 as that was where the market was and it didn't matter wether u were a Glanbia,Arrabawn dairygold or whatever supplier u just had to plough on as best u can.

I not a fool i understand this
u missing my point

I will not sign a contract that i might have to supply at a loss
no business would

Not claiming ur a fool at all but I'd doubt you'll get any coop to give u any guarantee on price.the co op will pay u what tee market can return to them.wether u supply it at a profit or loss is up to you wether the price is 40 cent or 20 cent.

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Not claiming ur a fool at all but I'd doubt you'll get any coop to give u any guarantee on price.the co op will pay u what tee market can return to them.wether u supply it at a profit or loss is up to you wether the price is 40 cent or 20 cent.

GIIL will give you a guarantee on price for three years with inputs also index linked

mahoney_j

milkprofit wrote: »

I saw a draft but have no copy

No co op can give a medium to long term guarantee on milk price as the world market now dictates that.vast majority of farmers in the country produced at a loss in 09 as that was where the market was and it didn't matter wether u were a Glanbia,Arrabawn dairygold or whatever supplier u just had to plough on as best u can.

I not a fool i understand this
u missing my point

I will not sign a contract that i might have to supply at a loss
no business would

Not claiming ur a fool at all but I'd doubt you'll get any coop to give u any guarantee on price.the co op will pay u what tee market can return to them.wether u supply it at a profit or loss is up to you wether the price is 40 cent or 20 cent.

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

GIIL will give you a guarantee on price for three years with inputs also index linked

What sort of price are we talking bout del??.is it like the current fixed price scheme

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

What sort of price are we talking bout del??.is it like the current fixed price scheme

New scheme not announced yet. The original one has just finished. I think buyers are really slow to buy in at the current market prices. As you know from Arra they are trying to stand off and buy short

freedominacup

I would be reasonably happy to sign up as long as there was a get out of jail free that kicked in once price dropped below a certain price probably 27/28 cent per litre. Below this any obligation to supply whether it be overall volume or at certain times would be gone. It would be up to Glanbia to make it clear to their customers that they could not guarantee supply below this price level. We are being asked for ever higher standards and we are told that the sustainability of our production system is actually becoming a standard these customers want. Well these standards come at a price and they can't just switch to any other supplier and get the same standards if the milk teams spin is to be believed.

kevthegaff

lads off topic here, does anyone know when the money come through for the dairy discussion group thing that was done for dairy famers, around a grand??

biddy2013

kevthegaff wrote: »

lads off topic here, does anyone know when the money come through for the dairy discussion group thing that was done for dairy famers, around a grand??

it was late enough last year think it was april

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

I would be reasonably happy to sign up as long as there was a get out of jail free that kicked in once price dropped below a certain price probably 27/28 cent per litre. Below this any obligation to supply whether it be overall volume or at certain times would be gone. It would be up to Glanbia to make it clear to their customers that they could not guarantee supply below this price level. We are being asked for ever higher standards and we are told thst the sustainability of our production system is actually becoming s standard these customers want. Well these standards come at a price and they can't just switch to any other supplier and get the same standards if the milk teams spin is to be believed.

You make a good point. If it went below 27-28 and you had a get out clause, would you be going elsewhere or do you see that as a mechanism forcing then not to go below this point?

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

You make a good point. If it went below 27-28 and you had a get out clause, would you be going elsewhere or do you see that as a mechanism forcing then not to go below this point?

By get out I mean get out of the constrictions of the contract. Where I am unless I somehow get to a situation where I'm filling a bulk tanker myself each collection I won't be moving processors. You can't force them not to go below this point if the market dictates otherwise but at least you won't have to continue supplying at a loss for fear of being forced by legal means to supply (in an extreme case). It would be more to allow us to do our version of what the yanks do when the price isn't right. They cull and cut supplies drastically our version would be min meal during breeding season to keep things right, no meal once breeding was finished and dry off as grass ran down in back end due to lack of fert applications i.e. absolute min cost and batten down the hatches until the worm turns. It'll turn so much sooner if milk supplies drop.

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

lads off topic here, does anyone know when the money come through for the dairy discussion group thing that was done for dairy famers, around a grand??

It's through already Kev,one of our commerades had it at our first meeting last week.didst see u there!!!!.did u got to enough meetings last year to qualify???.easiest 1k you'll ever pick up.the whole thing was under subscribed too

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

lads off topic here, does anyone know when the money come through for the dairy discussion group thing that was done for dairy famers, around a grand??

It's through already Kev,one of our commerades had it at our first meeting last week.didst see u there!!!!.did u got to enough meetings last year to qualify???.easiest 1k you'll ever pick up.the whole thing was under subscribed too

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

By get out I mean get out of the constrictions of the contract. Where I am unless I somehow get to a situation where I'm filling a bulk tanker myself each collection I won't be moving processors. You can't force them not to go below this point if the market dictates otherwise but at least you won't have to continue supplying at a loss for fear of being forced by legal means to supply (in an extreme case). It would be more to allow us to do our version of what the yanks do when the price isn't right. They cull and cut supplies drastically our version would be min meal during breeding season to keep things right, no meal once breeding was finished and dry off as grass ran down in back end due to lack of fert applications i.e. absolute min cost and batten down the hatches until the worm turns. It'll turn so much sooner if milk supplies drop.

You can, no penalty for not hitting projected volume

Farmer Ed

Please find below some details from the 2012 EU Milk Package. Fact is, this has been law since 2012 but ICOS objected to it. I have copied and pasted 2 relevant articles from it but if you want to read all the package please just click on the link. Or you can go also go to www.dmssg.com. It is so sad to think that in theory we own the Co Ops but in reality managment are able to make such fools of farmers. Fact is until Strathroy came along things were totally different in Glanbia. Surely it should be clear now that these contracts never had anything to do with expansion but are just a way for Co Ops to avoid having to compete for milk. They were never worried our milk would not be collected. They were just worried someone else wold give us a better price. Surely it is time to wake up now and smell the roses?!? Please read below and go to the links.


(10) In order to ensure appropriate minimum standards for such contracts and to ensure that the internal market and the common market organisation function well, some basic conditions for the use of such contracts should be laid down at Union level. All such basic conditions should, however, be freely negotiated. Nevertheless, in order to strengthen the stability of the dairy market and the outlet for milk producers in certain Member States where the use of extremely short contracts is quite widespread, Member States should be allowed to set a minimum contract duration to be included in such contracts and/or offers. Such minimum duration should however be imposed only on contracts between first purchasers and milk producers or in the offers made by first purchasers to milk producers. Moreover, it should not impair the proper functioning of the internal market and milk producers should be free to opt out or refuse such a minimum duration. Among the basic conditions, it is important that the price payable for the delivery can be set in the contract, at the choice of the contracting parties, as a static price or a price varying depending on defined factors, such as the volume and the quality or composition of the raw milk delivered, without excluding the possibility of a combination of a static price for a certain volume and a formula price for an additional volume of raw milk delivered in a single contract.
(11) Dairy cooperatives which have in their statutes or in the rules and decisions based thereon provisions with effects similar to those of the basic conditions for contracts laid down in this Regulation should, in the interests of simplicity, be exempted from a requirement that there be a written contract.
http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/milk/milk-package/index_en.htm

freedominacup

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Please find below some details from the 2012 EU Milk Package. Fact is, this has been law since 2012 but ICOS objected to it. I have copied and pasted 2 relevant articles from it but if you want to read all the package please just click on the link. Or you can go also go to www.dmssg.com. It is so sad to think that in theory we own the Co Ops but in reality managment are able to make such fools of farmers. Fact is until Strathroy came along things were totally different in Glanbia. Surely it should be clear now that these contracts never had anything to do with expansion but are just a way for Co Ops to avoid having to compete for milk. They were never worried our milk would not be collected. They were just worried someone else wold give us a better price. Surely it is time to wake up now and smell the roses?!? Please read below and go to the links.


(10) In order to ensure appropriate minimum standards for such contracts and to ensure that the internal market and the common market organisation function well, some basic conditions for the use of such contracts should be laid down at Union level. All such basic conditions should, however, be freely negotiated. Nevertheless, in order to strengthen the stability of the dairy market and the outlet for milk producers in certain Member States where the use of extremely short contracts is quite widespread, Member States should be allowed to set a minimum contract duration to be included in such contracts and/or offers. Such minimum duration should however be imposed only on contracts between first purchasers and milk producers or in the offers made by first purchasers to milk producers. Moreover, it should not impair the proper functioning of the internal market and milk producers should be free to opt out or refuse such a minimum duration. Among the basic conditions, it is important that the price payable for the delivery can be set in the contract, at the choice of the contracting parties, as a static price or a price varying depending on defined factors, such as the volume and the quality or composition of the raw milk delivered, without excluding the possibility of a combination of a static price for a certain volume and a formula price for an additional volume of raw milk delivered in a single contract.
(11) Dairy cooperatives which have in their statutes or in the rules and decisions based thereon provisions with effects similar to those of the basic conditions for contracts laid down in this Regulation should, in the interests of simplicity, be exempted from a requirement that there be a written contract.
http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/milk/milk-package/index_en.htm

There are quite a few amendments I'd like to see written to those sections of that law/directive but I fail to see what comfort you're getting from those provisions Ed.

kevthegaff

mahoney_j wrote: »

It's through already Kev,one of our commerades had it at our first meeting last week.didst see u there!!!!.did u got to enough meetings last year to qualify???.easiest 1k you'll ever pick up.the whole thing was under subscribed too

ya i done enough meetings barely, ill ring teagasc in the morning. handy money was hoping remaining funds would be redistributed, hope!

Farmer Ed

freedominacup wrote: »

There are quite a few amendments I'd like to see written to those sections of that law/directive but I fail to see what comfort you're getting from those provisions Ed.

Ok there is a lot of reading in it but if you have the time to spare you'll find our Co Ops are not complying with.
Eg It clearly states " (11) Dairy cooperatives which have in their statutes or in the rules and decisions based thereon provisions with effects similar to those of the basic conditions for contracts laid down in this Regulation should, in the interests of simplicity, be exempted from a requirement that there be a written contract."

In plan english Co Ops that are operating as Co Ops and have rules that protect it's suppliers have no need for a contract Also things like if there is a contract there has to be a guarntee of price. Or a contract should not be longer than something like five years and it should be voluntary.
There is a lot of reading in it but in short it was put in place to protect farmers from the likes of Tesco and Co Ops were never ment to have contracts. In the UK they now have a code of practice as a result of this. That is why for example Strathroy will offer a contract of 5 years or less, allow you to get out of it in 3 weeks if you are not happy and guarntee a price above what Glanbia are paying. Also every month before you sell your milk you have to be told what the price is going to be. Co Ops dont have to have contracts but if they do, they have to comply with the EU rules. At the moment they just seem to be cherry picking the bits out of the EU milk package that will help them keep farmers enslaved as they have been as a result the gentlemans agreement, while at the same time ignoring the bits that protect farmers. It's amazing how quite this EU package was kept apart from the ICOS objecting to it in 2011.
No doubt about it our Co Ops do not like competition!

delaval

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Ok there is a lot of reading in it but if you have the time to spare you'll find our Co Ops are not complying with.
Eg It clearly states " (11) Dairy cooperatives which have in their statutes or in the rules and decisions based thereon provisions with effects similar to those of the basic conditions for contracts laid down in this Regulation should, in the interests of simplicity, be exempted from a requirement that there be a written contract."

In plan english Co Ops that are operating as Co Ops and have rules that protect it's suppliers have no need for a contract Also things like if there is a contract there has to be a guarntee of price. Or a contract should not be longer than something like five years and it should be voluntary.
There is a lot of reading in it but in short it was put in place to protect farmers from the likes of Tesco and Co Ops were never ment to have contracts. In the UK they now have a code of practice as a result of this. That is why for example Strathroy will offer a contract of 5 years or less, allow you to get out of it in 3 weeks if you are not happy and guarntee a price above what Glanbia are paying. Also every month before you sell your milk you have to be told what the price is going to be. Co Ops dont have to have contracts but if they do, they have to comply with the EU rules. At the moment they just seem to be cherry picking the bits out of the EU milk package that will help them keep farmers enslaved as they have been as a result the gentlemans agreement, while at the same time ignoring the bits that protect farmers. It's amazing how quite this EU package was kept apart from the ICOS objecting to it in 2011.
No doubt about it our Co Ops do not like competition!

Ed, please write this somewhere you can see everyday.

You do not have to sign an agreement if you are a coop shareholder.

Brown Podzol

delaval wrote: »

Ed, please write this somewhere you can see everyday.

You do not have to sign an agreement if you are a coop shareholder.

Bonuses/13th payment only payable to contracted farmers in Dairygold:eek:

case885

keep going wrote: »

Hope we can continue with the share scheme in carbery.I'd put all the money I could with them- no other investment thats so safe is returning so much 8 % growth last year

Thing about carbery what are they doing with the money they're getting from lads buying shares, other processors are building to cope with the extra inflow of milk. Bandon is something like 6 or 7% over quota now so are they building more processing facilities out in carbery for post 2015?