Enterprise refurbishment comes closer?

Sean9015

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Will take your word but on a trip on Friday we did not do 80 through the station, Train slowed from 100 to 30 ish and once it passed over the first points of the loop it started to pick up speed again.

Temporary speed restriction for the loop points. Speed through the station is, as others have told you, 80mph for the Cork line, and 20 for Galway (up from 10 in the old layout, thus reducing the time the line is blocking by crossing movements). Not sure where your 25/30mph at Portlaoise comes from either. Their is a 50 temporary restriction south of the station in the down direction, but it is 100mph Portarlington - Portlaoise and 90 thereafter.

LXFlyer

Sean9015 wrote: »

Temporary speed restriction for the loop points. Speed through the station is, as others have told you, 80mph for the Cork line, and 20 for Galway (up from 10 in the old layout, thus reducing the time the line is blocking by crossing movements). Not sure where your 25/30mph at Portlaoise comes from either. Their is a 50 temporary restriction south of the station in the down direction, but it is 100mph Portarlington - Portlaoise and 90 thereafter.

Bear in mind this is a semi-zombie thread - that post was from 6 months ago!!

GBOA

lxflyer wrote: »

Bear in mind this is a semi-zombie thread - that post was from 6 months ago!!

I hadn't envisaged my post reigniting an irrelevant discussion in relation to Enterprise refurb.

I suppose the lesson is to just start a new thread in future.

Captain Chaos

Walking through Connolly this morning at 6:45 and I see an ICR set sitting in platform 2. I take it a set has already been removed from service. Would love if someone could get pics at York Road of the set being shipped off if they have not been already.

LXFlyer

The ICR set came into operation on Dublin/Belfast today.

It will work Monday to Saturday:

Dublin / Belfast: 07:35; 13:20; 19:00
Belfast / Dublin: 10:35; 16:05; 21:35

The 20:05 from Belfast is deferred to 21:35 during the duration of the refurbishment works to ensure that the ICR ends back in Dublin each night.

Revised Sunday schedules came into operation on the route yesterday (permanent changes):

Dublin / Belfast: 10:00, 12:00, 14:00, 16:00, and 19:00
Belfast / Dublin: 09:00, 11:05, 13:05, 16:05, and 19:05

The trains in bold will be ICR operated.

The full timetable is here:
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/09_-_dublin-belfast_nov_2014_web.pdf?v=8y4uece

end of the road

lxflyer wrote: »

The 20:05 from Belfast is deferred to 21:35 during the duration of the refurbishment works to ensure that the ICR ends back in Dublin each night.

but it will be ending up back in dublin anyway so why the time change

Captain Chaos

end of the road wrote: »

but it will be ending up back in dublin anyway so why the time change

I think it's due to a roster issue with it being an IE crew rather than putting the customer first. No NIR staff are trained up on the ICRs yet.

LXFlyer

end of the road wrote: »

but it will be ending up back in dublin anyway so why the time change

So you reckon a train that leaves Dublin at 19:00 can then operate a service at 20:05 from Belfast? Good luck with that!

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I think it's due to a roster issue with it being an IE crew rather than putting the customer first. No NIR staff are trained up on the ICRs yet.

Under the previous timetable the train that operated the 19:00 stays in Belfast overnight, and a different set ended up in Dublin.

The three sets rotated over a three day period with a different set ending up in Dublin each night.

Given that the ICRs are maintained in Drogheda/Portlaoise, and that they are only operated by IE crew, this is the only way of getting the set back to Dublin each night, short of swapping passengers between sets at Dundalk, which would be far worse.

end of the road

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I think it's due to a roster issue with it being an IE crew rather than putting the customer first.

nothing new so.

GM228

end of the road wrote: »

nothing new so.

Probably makes more sense to have the ICR on the same trains each day rather than an ICR one day and an Enterprise the next which is what would happen if an ICR remained in Belfast overnight-remember only one ICR is available for Enterprise services. Also passengers would get used to it aswell.

Theres also the issue of NIR crews not knowing the ICRs as already stated.

What will be interesting is when the next round of security alerts/flooding etc strand an ICR overnight in Belfast!

GM228

Jamie2k9

What will be interesting is when the next round of security alerts/flooding etc strand an ICR overnight in Belfast!

An expensive hotel bill.

SpaceTime

Wonder how the new stand in trains are going down with passengers?

end of the road

SpaceTime wrote: »

Wonder how the new stand in trains are going down with passengers?

i'm sure they will find them exceptable. at least its not a noisy ice box 2900. while one could say ICRS are not true intercity stock like the de-deitrick and even the mark 4 stock, they offer the basics for long distance journeys including the intercity services to cork. so they should go down well as a temporary measure on the international service to belfast

SpaceTime

I'm not sure you could say they're not 'full intercity rolling stock'.

I've never seen their 1st class version, but that seems to be the only difference.

The notion that the 22000s are noisy doesn't seem to hold true at all though.
I've found them actually a lot less noisy than the MK4s largely because the MK4, like the MK3s before them invariably have a broken / stuck open end door on the coaches where as that seems to never happen on the 22000s which are just a better job all round.

The MK4s in my opinion are a bit of a disaster of a fleet. On the surface of it they look fancy, but the seats are lacking padding, the choice of carpet colour leaves it prone to getting absolutely filthy, the window tint is far too strong for the typical Irish day and the two biggest grips I have:

1) No power sockets despite years of saying they'd retrofit them.
2) The air conditioning is either being badly programmed or it's too cool all the time. (I wonder sometimes if that's a problem being caused by the stuck open vestibule doors).

I haven't been on the enterprise in years, but last time I was on it just reminded me of an old pub - comfy but kind of worn out /tatty.

Captain Chaos

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'm not sure you could say they're not 'full intercity rolling stock'.

I've never seen their 1st class version, but that seems to be the only difference.

I'd rate the ICRs as good as a Mk3 comfort wise, just lacking in capacity really. The engine noise is not that bad, can't really hear it when not accelerating.

SpaceTime

Capacity just depends on how you plug them together.

Considering they can be formed up to 18 coaches for emergencies and you can operate them as 6+3 or 3+3+3 or various other combinations if you want to, they're highly flexible.

end of the road

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'm not sure you could say they're not 'full intercity rolling stock'.
I've never seen their 1st class version, but that seems to be the only difference.

i'd say high quality regional stock myself. i do like them though.

SpaceTime wrote: »

The notion that the 22000s are noisy doesn't seem to hold true at all though.
I've found them actually a lot less noisy than the MK4s largely because the MK4, like the MK3s before them invariably have a broken / stuck open end door on the coaches where as that seems to never happen on the 22000s which are just a better job all round.

oh i never said they were noisy. the 2900 suburban railcars i said were noisy and i suggested that the 22000s would be exceptable compared to 29s which do turn up on belfast services.

SpaceTime wrote: »

The MK4s in my opinion are a bit of a disaster of a fleet. On the surface of it they look fancy, but the seats are lacking padding, the choice of carpet colour leaves it prone to getting absolutely filthy, the window tint is far too strong for the typical Irish day and the two biggest grips I have:

1) No power sockets despite years of saying they'd retrofit them.
2) The air conditioning is either being badly programmed or it's too cool all the time. (I wonder sometimes if that's a problem being caused by the stuck open vestibule doors).

that can be sorted. those carriges with a good refurbishment can be a proper intercity style train fit for the dublin cork service which they were bought for.

SpaceTime wrote: »

I haven't been on the enterprise in years, but last time I was on it just reminded me of an old pub - comfy but kind of worn out /tatty.

well that is being sorted so i hope the refurbishment will be to a very high standard. an international service like dublin belfast has a lot expected of it and a lot to live up to

end of the road

SpaceTime wrote: »

Capacity just depends on how you plug them together.

Considering they can be formed up to 18 coaches for emergencies and you can operate them as 6+3 or 3+3+3 or various other combinations if you want to, they're highly flexible.

in theory yes, but we don't have enough of them to take advantage of that flexibility without other routes suffering a loss.

SpaceTime

end of the road wrote: »

well that is being sorted so i hope the refurbishment will be to a very high standard. an international service like dublin belfast has a lot expected of it and a lot to live up to

Plenty of cross-border services in Europe don't live up to much I can assure you!

Brussels-Amsterdam is often old loco-hauled electric intercity stock that would put you in mind of the old MK3s.

At the end of the day, it's a about 160km trip between a medium size European city and a small European city. It's hardly Paris-Brussels and the Thalys is nothing to write home about!

Brussels-Strasbourg is a complete joke. You can't even get food on board, not even a snack trolley most of the time!
Dublin-Sligo is more sophisticated tbh!

Better frequency and ability to cope with intermediate stops might actually mean DMU service between Dublin and Belfast might make more sense than the Enterprise.

Jamie2k9

Part of the noise issue is I expect IE have cut costs by sourcing cheaper parts. What was in them when they were first delivered is very different now. There is a few sets which are really bad.

SpaceTime

They don't maintain them themselves so that's unlikely.

I actually find the MK4 noisier due to the vestibule doors being open all the time.

The older stock was much louder though. I think many people remember it via rose tinted glasses.

I remember being unable to hear on the phone in the dining car of a MK3 as it was so poorly noise insulated.

end of the road

SpaceTime wrote: »

They don't maintain them themselves so that's unlikely.

I actually find the MK4 noisier due to the vestibule doors being open all the time.

The older stock was much louder though. I think many people remember it via rose tinted glasses.

I remember being unable to hear on the phone in the dining car of a MK3 as it was so poorly noise insulated.

well i had only ever been on a mark 3 a couple of times and found it quiet and comfortable, but i will agree its most likely the case they were noisy by the end due to possibly only getting the bare minimum maintenence.

Jamie2k9

SpaceTime wrote: »

They don't maintain them themselves so that's unlikely.

I actually find the MK4 noisier due to the vestibule doors being open all the time.

The older stock was much louder though. I think many people remember it via rose tinted glasses.

I remember being unable to hear on the phone in the dining car of a MK3 as it was so poorly noise insulated.

Whoever does it, costs have being cut. Not saying its a bad thing but it has happened. At end of the day IE are paying directly or indirectly.

I mostly agree about the Mark IV they are nosier because the lines they run on are not up to scratch. There is a major difference with then between Dublin and Cork. They will never see their full potential on this island as the infrastructure is not there and never will be. How they were ordered is unbelievable. The worst decision ever.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Whoever does it, costs have being cut. Not saying its a bad thing but it has happened. At end of the day IE are paying directly or indirectly.

it is a bad thing if its causing the trains to be more noisy in turn making the journey less comfortable though. being quiet inside is one of the big things these units have or at least had going for them.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I mostly agree about the Mark IV they are nosier because the lines they run on are not up to scratch. There is a major difference with then between Dublin and Cork. They will never see their full potential on this island as the infrastructure is not there and never will be. How they were ordered is unbelievable. The worst decision ever.

absolutely, but shur they were something shiny and new begorra begosh, which in the minds of the deluded management in IE, painted over the real problems and eradicated them from the publics mind. of course it didn't work because it never was going to work.

SpaceTime

They need new power cars the 201s won't last indefinitely.

Captain Chaos

SpaceTime wrote: »

They need new power cars the 201s won't last indefinitely.

I'd even go as far to say the 071s will out live the 201s. Some already have.:pac:

GM228

SpaceTime wrote: »

They need new power cars the 201s won't last indefinitely.

Never say never, IE have reduced the MkIVs in service and replaced many services with ICRs, you could possibly see them all taken out of service and replaced with ICRs, with the 201s still hauling freights!

GM228

Captain Chaos

At this stage I think it's too tight on the ICRs to phase out the Mk4s all together. They would need a about 4-5 5ICR sets to do away with the Mk4s. If they had some money I'd say they would take up those options with Rotem. Put another 10 201s in storage and that would be that. Just keep a few for Enterprise and heavy liners while keeping the 071s going till they can't get parts for them anymore.

SpaceTime

They should probably order a fleet of 200km/h capable DMUs built as a version of the same family for Cork-Dublin and Enterprise.

It would make sense long term but they'd have a hard job justifying scrapping the MK4 and Enterprise stock after having just ditched the 1980s era MK3s

Captain Chaos

SpaceTime wrote: »

They should probably order a fleet of 200km/h capable DMUs built as a version of the same family for Cork-Dublin and Enterprise.

It would make sense long term but they'd have a hard job justifying scrapping the MK4 and Enterprise stock after having just ditched the 1980s era MK3s

Not going to happen though is it.

They ditched the mid '90s non push pull 201s, late '90s 2700s, and early 2000 8200 DARTs. Yes they all had various valid reasons but if IE want to scrap something they can do it no problem. No one questions them with any real authority.

I don't think anyone would miss the Mk4s tbh or will miss them when they are gone unlike the Mk3s.