Distance V Accuracy

14handicap

I recently played a round with a low handicap golfer that could hit the ball over 300yrs every drive but he was all over the place with the drives.
I only hit the ball 230-240 but can put it down the middle every time.

My question is would you prefer to hit the ball 230 and straight with your driver or 270 but be much less accurate?

The impact it has is your second shot could be a 5 iron v 7iron in but you will be in the rough and offline more.

alxmorgan

This is an interesting one because on the face of it accuracy seems like the obvious answer. But a study was done (can't find link) on the PGA tour which showed that distance is more of an indicator of success than accuracy off the tee.

Now of course you have to caveat that with lots of things:
Forgiving rough ?
Strength of recovery game
etc etc

Anyway I would take accuracy. No fun chipping out sideways

mike12

14handicap wrote: »

I recently played a round with a low handicap golfer that could hit the ball over 300yrs every drive but he was all over the place with the drives.
I only hit the ball 230-240 but can put it down the middle every time.

My question is would you prefer to hit the ball 230 and straight with your driver or 270 but be much less accurate?

The impact it has is your second shot could be a 5 iron v 7iron in but you will be in the rough and offline more.

40 yards is closer to 4 clubs. The course is the biggest factor if it is open then distance for me off the tee is key. Tighter short course i can hit 3 wood 240 to keep it straighter.
Mike

GreeBo

The better your short game the more offline you can afford to be.
I dont think you can be long, wild, have an average or less shortgame and still be someone that is successful.

Long & straight "enough" is what I look for.

Dbu

GreeBo wrote: »

The better your short game the more offline you can afford to be.
I dont think you can be long, wild, have an average or less shortgame and still be someone that is successful.

thats is in a nutshell
OP is off 14, guy driving it all over the place is a low handicap

14handicap

Dbu wrote: »

thats is in a nutshell
OP is off 14, guy driving it all over the place is a low handicap

I always hit the driver straight but just not that long but to be honest I think I would prefer a 9 iron out of the rough then a 6-5iron on the fairway.

as 10 of 18 holes are par4 then you have a long iron instead of a short if your short. Difficult to decide which id prefer.

CarefulNow!

Accuracy over distance any day. If I see the green I'm hitting it... Usually lol

Russman

14handicap wrote: »

I always hit the driver straight but just not that long but to be honest I think I would prefer a 9 iron out of the rough then a 6-5iron on the fairway.

as 10 of 18 holes are par4 then you have a long iron instead of a short if your short. Difficult to decide which id prefer.

I say this with the greatest of respect, but if you're really averaging 230-240 as you say, then you've nothing to worry about, that's plenty far for most amateurs if its in the fairway or edge of the rough.

There's no really right or wrong answer in general though - its a balance between far enough and straight enough.

Sandwlch

Distance. Distance. Distance.

There will be exceptions for such a varied skills game as golf (long game, short game, putting, mental control), but I think the paradox is that while accuracy seems the logical answer, longer golfers are also be fundamentally better ball strikers and more consistent in hitting clean shots. The distance OR accurate choice is not really a question : longer=more accurate. Comparing like with like distance rather than just how far they hit the driver for example (i.e. comparing the 'long' hitter's accuracy with a 150yd shot versus that or the shorter hitter with whatever club he need to also hit it 150) then I am sure the long hitter is at least as, or more likely more ,accurate than the shorter hitter.
Graph handicap versus average distance with any same loft club and pretty sure you will see a clear trend. Anyone know of such a study ?

rollotomasi

If a hole is shortish but with really thick cabbage off the fairway, its gotta be accuracy. If its a hole where the rough is not too bad, then its distance. Either way, if the hole is long and needs a driver, i'd tend to hit a driver. But it all depends on how inaccurate the bad ones are...

sawdoubters

accuracy is better,you can always get distance

Rikand

I prefer to be accurate

Russman

sawdoubters wrote: »

accuracy is better,you can always get distance

I think most perceived wisdom is that if you're teaching juniors or beginners you get them to hit it as far as possible first and you try straighten them out later. Pure speed and power is very hard to learn if you're used to just poking it down the middle.

Senna

As above, distance also means a stronger swing and a stronger swing can get you out of rough much easier, which means out of the drives that don't hit the fairway, they are still more likely to hit the green from the rough.
Of the low hcp players at my club (<4hcp's) They are all longer than average maybe 265yards (-/+) average but have a balance between good distance and good accuracy.

Kace

Frustrated the hell out of myself recently by not hitting a single fairway in nearly 3 rounds. As a result, I'm about to embark on a straight but shorter routine for February - i.e I won't be using any woods off any tees.

I love the length but it isn't much good to me if it's in someone's back garden or a farmer's field 2 or 3 times a round.

3 iron is making a re-appearance and I full expect to be using that and the 4 quite a lot over the coming weeks. If all else fails it should be an interesting exercise, even if it's not a good time of year to try this.

whizbang

3 iron is making a re-appearance and I full expect to be using that and the 4 quite a lot over the coming weeks. If all else fails it should be an interesting exercise, even if it's not a good time of year to try this.

This is the totally screwed up as far as i'm concerned.
If you can hit a 3iron accurately, then there's no reason you cannot hit a wood even more accurately

As for the question, I would prefer to be hitting a 7iron into the green from the light rough, than trying to hit a 4iron distance from the fairway.

Senna

whizbang wrote: »

This is the totally screwed up as far as i'm concerned.
If you can hit a 3iron accurately, then there's no reason you cannot hit a wood even more accurately

Or a step further, 18' hybrid is probably the best balance between easy hit from a tee and good length.

m r c

The thing is though, if you are able to bomb it you will probably able to take some off it and be accurate. That's why yer man is low.
When he wants to hit fairways he's well able to, but to be able to drive and flick wedges into par 4's when other people are coming in with 5-6 irons allows you to really take apart courses rather than struggle.

If he's hitting his driver over 300 he's 200 with his 6 iron so on tight 350 yard par 4's he can go 6 iron then either 8 or 9 iron. I don't know many low cappers who routinely miss the fairway with their irons.

So for me it's being able to hit it long all day.

galwaylad14

In a lot of ways its an impossible question to answer because it depends so much on the hole. If it's a narrow awkward hole with lots of trouble then obviously accuracy is the one but if it's a long hole without a huge amount of trouble then length is your man.

Overall though I'd have to say it's length I'd choose. 30 yards is probably 3 clubs of a difference and I know I'd much prefer an 8 iron from a dodgy enough lie to a 5 iron from the fairway.

And as other have said, if you really need accuracy you can always use the 3 wood or a rescue or something and chances are you won't be that far behind the short, straight hitting guy.

But if you can hit the ball 240 yards and into the fairway everytime then you're a better driver than 99% of club golfers in Ireland I would say.

14handicap

galwaylad14 wrote: »

In a lot of ways its an impossible question to answer because it depends so much on the hole. If it's a narrow awkward hole with lots of trouble then obviously accuracy is the one but if it's a long hole without a huge amount of trouble then length is your man.

Overall though I'd have to say it's length I'd choose. 30 yards is probably 3 clubs of a difference and I know I'd much prefer an 8 iron from a dodgy enough lie to a 5 iron from the fairway.

And as other have said, if you really need accuracy you can always use the 3 wood or a rescue or something and chances are you won't be that far behind the short, straight hitting guy.

But if you can hit the ball 240 yards and into the fairway everytime then you're a better driver than 99% of club golfers in Ireland I would say.

NO, as I cant hit an iron and my putting and chipping is weak.
Going to work on my putting big time as it is one area that I could save at least 4 shots a round. read this book recently mod edit (cant find the direct link to the book website) but it made the point at my age it is much easier to improve putting as it requires no physical improvement only practice and lining up the putter head square, reading greens and correct practice all of which can be done in a spare hour. But I am not going to add 30-40yrds to my drive or improve my iron play as quickly. Also 40% of your shots are putts so it vital. Just some thoughts. want to get from 14 to 10 this year. gonna keep a record of my putting stats over the year to see if I can shave that 4 shots off per round.

pinseeker

I would have to say length is more important. The shortish guy who is in the fairway round after round will still be hitting same irons week after week but where the long hitter gains is the days he is straight then it will lead to taking the course apart with wedges..the days where it might be a bit off well 8 iron from rough is better than 5 iron i reckon unless dire lie.

Anyone that says its not a massive massive advantage is crazy, i would happily admit that i would be nowhere near what i'm off if i had to hit 5 irons and so on all day long..

i play with a guy off 5 who hits it all in roll included when playing well around 230-250 and as Russman said that is way up there in amateur golf. Sometimes i might be next to him and zap flag say 140, he hits his shot 8 iron or smooth 7 and i think to myself that's not great from that distance but i have to remember that's a wedge for me.If i picked his ball up walked up to 120 or whatever and said hit it now with wedge i know the shot will be better.

Now having said that if your talking crazy long but all over the shop and playing 3 off the tee twice a round then that's just plain swinging way outside your comfort range.

Kace

whizbang wrote: »

This is the totally screwed up as far as i'm concerned.
If you can hit a 3iron accurately, then there's no reason you cannot hit a wood even more accurately

As for the question, I would prefer to be hitting a 7iron into the green from the light rough, than trying to hit a 4iron distance from the fairway.

You're probably right tbh but with 3 recent rounds above 95 I'm at my wit's end with the long sticks, even 3 wood.

As I say I'm going to give it a whirl for the craic while I can spend a bit more focused time on the driver in the meantime.

TrapperChamonix

On my course off line shots mean high likelihood of lost ball. I don't mind playing from the rough so much but I have 2 to 4 Drives a round that mean a reload from the tee.
When playing off the forward tees I tend to play a 3W, but for Monthly Medals etc, and the course now just shy of 7000yds you need to be able to hit driver. If I can get the ball into play regularly I could be a contender, but its a big if???

So for me its straighter or rather no wild slices and lost balls.

death1234567

Distance. It's much easier to correct your swing to avoid slices/hooks than it is to add distance to a swing.

GreeBo

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

On my course off line shots mean high likelihood of lost ball. I don't mind playing from the rough so much but I have 2 to 4 Drives a round that mean a reload from the tee.
When playing off the forward tees I tend to play a 3W, but for Monthly Medals etc, and the course now just shy of 7000yds you need to be able to hit driver. If I can get the ball into play regularly I could be a contender, but its a big if???

So for me its straighter or rather no wild slices and lost balls.

pinseeker wrote: »

I would have to say length is more important. The shortish guy who is in the fairway round after round will still be hitting same irons week after week but where the long hitter gains is the days he is straight then it will lead to taking the course apart with wedges..the days where it might be a bit off well 8 iron from rough is better than 5 iron i reckon unless dire lie.

Anyone that says its not a massive massive advantage is crazy, i would happily admit that i would be nowhere near what i'm off if i had to hit 5 irons and so on all day long..

i play with a guy off 5 who hits it all in roll included when playing well around 230-250 and as Russman said that is way up there in amateur golf. Sometimes i might be next to him and zap flag say 140, he hits his shot 8 iron or smooth 7 and i think to myself that's not great from that distance but i have to remember that's a wedge for me.If i picked his ball up walked up to 120 or whatever and said hit it now with wedge i know the shot will be better.

Now having said that if your talking crazy long but all over the shop and playing 3 off the tee twice a round then that's just plain swinging way outside your comfort range.

I think it massively depends on the course. Pinseekeer you say "offline" and then talk about hitting from the rough. To me thats not offline. Long and wild is "ball might never be found again, no one has ever hit from there before" type of shots.

I think everyone would take long if it only meant your bad shots were in the rough now and then!

14handicap

To be honest I don't think that there is a correct answer as if you hit it long but wild how is that better or worse then straight but short. 50-50 as either way you either have a long iron from the fairway or a shorter iron from the rough.

Russman

14handicap wrote: »

To be honest I don't think that there is a correct answer as if you hit it long but wild how is that better or worse then straight but short. 50-50 as either way you either have a long iron from the fairway or a shorter iron from the rough.

Yeah, its all relative. One person's wild could be another person's straight or "straight enough" !! Likewise, one person's short could be very long for a different person (and with golf too :D!!).

Its a balance between straight enough and long enough as opposed to simply straight or long.

TrapperChamonix

GreeBo wrote: »

I think it massively depends on the course. Pinseekeer you say "offline" and then talk about hitting from the rough. To me thats not offline. Long and wild is "ball might never be found again, no one has ever hit from there before" type of shots.

I think everyone would take long if it only meant your bad shots were in the rough now and then!

Agreed, I play on links course that is tight and has very little semi or even normal rough. So the penalty for off line shots are particularly severe. If I play on another course, my off line shots are not such a problem.
So horses for courses and in my case the course is narrow and therefore you need to reign in the horse.

mike12

14handicap wrote: »

NO, as I cant hit an iron and my putting and chipping is weak.
Going to work on my putting big time as it is one area that I could save at least 4 shots a round. read this book recently mod edit (cant find the direct link to the book website) but it made the point at my age it is much easier to improve putting as it requires no physical improvement only practice and lining up the putter head square, reading greens and correct practice all of which can be done in a spare hour. But I am not going to add 30-40yrds to my drive or improve my iron play as quickly. Also 40% of your shots are putts so it vital. Just some thoughts. want to get from 14 to 10 this year. gonna keep a record of my putting stats over the year to see if I can shave that 4 shots off per round.

Putting can be hard to improve if you can hole all you 3 foot putts and 50% of you 6 foot putts then you are PGA tour standard. If you are not 3 putting from inside 20 foot then your putting is ok. Hitting it closer to the flag is the only way to improve scoring.

14handicap

mike12 wrote: »

Putting can be hard to improve if you can hole all you 3 foot putts and 50% of you 6 foot putts then you are PGA tour standard. If you are not 3 putting from inside 20 foot then your putting is ok. Hitting it closer to the flag is the only way to improve scoring.

I agree that hitting closer to the flag is important but putting is vital if it is 40% of your shots in a round?
You would only use your driver Max 14 times a round where you are putting 30+ times a round...

BoardsMember

m r c wrote: »

The thing is though, if you are able to bomb it you will probably able to take some off it and be accurate. That's why yer man is low.
When he wants to hit fairways he's well able to, but to be able to drive and flick wedges into par 4's when other people are coming in with 5-6 irons allows you to really take apart courses rather than struggle.

If he's hitting his driver over 300 he's 200 with his 6 iron so on tight 350 yard par 4's he can go 6 iron then either 8 or 9 iron. I don't know many low cappers who routinely miss the fairway with their irons.

So for me it's being able to hit it long all day.

Assuming that by not bombing it you gain accuracy then this is it in a nutshell. On courses (or holes) where distance is required you bomb your driver, if the hole it tight you hit your rescue or an iron and you're still grand. I'd take length over accuracy any day, and use if judiciously ...on the assumption that accuracy improves the shorter the club in hand, if not then accuracy!

levitronix

ID rather hit wedge from the rough any day than 8-7 iron from the fairway , most Irish courses the rough is not that punishing

14handicap

levitronix wrote: »

ID rather hit wedge from the rough any day than 8-7 iron from the fairway , most Irish courses the rough is not that punishing

Very true.

FixdePitchmark

It was a good point earlier - it is sort of obvious to say Accuracy,

But on a short par 4 - if your driver is off and you are playing sensible golf - going to a 6 iron off tee, for a lad who can hit it long,
Is a great tool to have in the bag.

Of course, knowing when to use it is the skill. A lad who can hit the ball solid can get just under 200 with a 6 iron , this means he can have a PW/9iron into these hole. He also has the choice of hitting a 7 iron or 8 iron with any sort of tail wind, this will hit fairway 80 % + of the time.

Just another angle on this.

pinseeker

GreeBo wrote: »

I think it massively depends on the course. Pinseekeer you say "offline" and then talk about hitting from the rough. To me thats not offline. Long and wild is "ball might never be found again, no one has ever hit from there before" type of shots.

I think everyone would take long if it only meant your bad shots were in the rough now and then!

That's why at the end Greebo i said if crazy long but reloading few times a round then my answer would be no to distance but as you said if your drives are long but playable the game is alot easier.

can i ask why you say i mention Offline but talk about the rough? if im aiming down the fairway and hit the ball in the rough then that is offline as far as id be concerned.

Russman

pinseeker wrote: »

if im aiming down the fairway and hit the ball in the rough then that is offline as far as id be concerned.

But you're still "in" the hole as opposed to OB or in a lake. Not trying to be condescending but don't get too caught up in just missing a fairway, or feeling you're too far offline when you do, golf isn't about hitting fairways, its about getting the ball in the hole. Sometimes the left rough can be better than the right edge of the fairway.

spacecoyote

Yeah have to agree, if offline means you're finding the first cut rather than the fairway then generally the extra distance would be of much more significant difference. But if offline means lost ball/hacking sideways from under trees/bushes then I'd take shorter & straighter.

dan_ep82

I think greebo hit the nail on the head, long and straight enough. Long enough you don't fall behind and straight enough your not adding a stroke to get out of trouble

pinseeker

Russman wrote: »

But you're still "in" the hole as opposed to OB or in a lake. Not trying to be condescending but don't get too caught up in just missing a fairway, or feeling you're too far offline when you do, golf isn't about hitting fairways, its about getting the ball in the hole. Sometimes the left rough can be better than the right edge of the fairway.

i hear ya Russman but isnt that just a case of being more offline if ball OB, if the ball doesn't go where im aiming then ive hit it offline simples .

if im aiming down right side and pull it left rough then that could have been far enough to be OB on another hole, just cause it worked out ok and i might birdie hole doesnt make my brain happy ha.

GreeBo

pinseeker wrote: »

i hear ya Russman but isnt that just a case of being more offline if ball OB, if the ball doesn't go where im aiming then ive hit it offline simples .

if im aiming down right side and pull it left rough then that could have been far enough to be OB on another hole, just cause it worked out ok and i might birdie hole doesnt make my brain happy ha.

My point was that if you are sacrificing accuracy for distance, then go right ahead and sacrifice if you are still finding the rough and have a shot.
On my own course if you miss the fairway you are hitting out sideways 90% of the time (assuming it came down from the tree)

pinseeker

GreeBo wrote: »

My point was that if you are sacrificing accuracy for distance, then go right ahead and sacrifice if you are still finding the rough and have a shot.
On my own course if you miss the fairway you are hitting out sideways 90% of the time (assuming it came down from the tree)

Is your course the kind of one where long and middle of next fairway is ok? as in only wedge back over onto green you know the ones im on about where farther off line is nearly better as just along the edge is as you say a hit out sideways.

Since were on about distance and the theory that go ahead and sacrifice distance for accuracy can i ask do ye feel that's doable, what i mean is my swing speed is my swing speed, i genuinely cant lash at a ball to say gain more yards for less accuracy. Ive got what i got kinda thing

PARlance

pinseeker wrote: »

Since were on about distance and the theory that go ahead and sacrifice distance for accuracy can i ask do ye feel that's doable, what i mean is my swing speed is my swing speed, i genuinely cant lash at a ball to say gain more yards for less accuracy. Ive got what i got kinda thing

But you've got 14 clubs in the bag So same swing speed with less club "should" mean more accuracy.
I don't think it's about hitting a driver at 50%

This could be a never ending thread, the details required to answer are extremely complicated and different for all.

How long is a straight piece of string???

pinseeker

PARlance wrote: »

But you've got 14 clubs in the bag So same swing speed with less club "should" mean more accuracy.
I don't think it's about hitting a driver at 50%

This could be a never ending thread, the details required to answer are extremely complicated and different for all.

How long is a straight piece of string???

But it's other way round were on about PARlance, more distance for less accuracy. My swing speed is my swing speed so not sure i can find anymore. If your'e lashing it and all over the place losing balls then your to fast clearly so swinging easier is more achievable than the other way round trying to find more distance.

PARlance

pinseeker wrote: »

But it's other way round were on about PARlance, more distance for less accuracy. My swing speed is my swing speed so not sure i can find anymore. If your'e lashing it and all over the place losing balls then your to fast clearly so swinging easier is more achievable than the other way round trying to find more distance.

Ah ok, I misunderstood your previous post.

But, I don't think anyone would advise you to swing faster than you are comfortable with... the "distance" being talked about was generally someone's standard drive I assumed... this standard/comfortable drive still can find trouble as generally; the misses are worse with it and it's not as consistent as lower clubs.

I don't think people are talking about trying to jump out of their socks when hitting a drive, the "Distance" being talked about is your normal swing with the big club (and the associated trouble)

pinseeker

PARlance wrote: »

Ah ok, I misunderstood your previous post.

But, I don't think anyone would advise you to swing faster than you are comfortable with... the "distance" being talked about was generally someone's standard drive I assumed... this standard/comfortable drive still can find trouble as generally; the misses are worse with it and it's not as consistent as lower clubs.

I don't think people are talking about trying to jump out of their socks when hitting a drive, the "Distance" being talked about is your normal swing with the big club (and the associated trouble)

True Parlance but yet so often you see people swinging way outside there comfort zone, as you say its associated trouble. But the long wild guy will never hold back for accuracy because all they remember is that 1 drive that went such and such and not the lost balls. Again anybody will answer accuracy over distance as long as it is not OB i guess.

GreeBo

If you are already swinging at your max then I would say you are already sacrificing accuracy for distance, Harrington swings at 80% of his max for everyshot (unless he is forcing it of course)

80% is really what you should be aiming for 100% of the time.

dar_cool

When he does this face you know it's 100% ha ha

Russman

pinseeker wrote: »

i hear ya Russman but isnt that just a case of being more offline if ball OB, if the ball doesn't go where im aiming then ive hit it offline simples .

if im aiming down right side and pull it left rough then that could have been far enough to be OB on another hole, just cause it worked out ok and i might birdie hole doesnt make my brain happy ha.

Fair point.
But ultimately IMHO to play better golf you need to make your bad shots better, as your good ones are already good, so if your miss with a driver is left or right rough (ie not in serious trouble) then you need to let go the fact that, strictly speaking, you hit it offline. (by "you" I mean "all of us" !)

Your brain needs to move on from a shot that has already been hit, and be thankful you're still in play with a chance for birdie/par. Its a subtle change of looking at it.

pinseeker

Russman wrote: »

Fair point.
But ultimately IMHO to play better golf you need to make your bad shots better, as your good ones are already good, so if your miss with a driver is left or right rough (ie not in serious trouble) then you need to let go the fact that, strictly speaking, you hit it offline. (by "you" I mean "all of us" !)

Your brain needs to move on from a shot that has already been hit, and be thankful you're still in play with a chance for birdie/par. Its a subtle change of looking at it.

what you say is all correct Russman, keeping the ball in play is the key for everyone to reduce there scores. improving the bad shots is certainly an area for every golfer to work on but to be honest its the brain part i struggle with:(

I look at it in all the wrong way in that regard, rather than be happy as you said that it's in play im pissed off with the shot. Id take hitting it the way i want to and a higher score more so than the lower score the other way and that as ive been told is not golf haha.

pinseeker

GreeBo wrote: »

If you are already swinging at your max then I would say you are already sacrificing accuracy for distance, Harrington swings at 80% of his max for everyshot (unless he is forcing it of course)

80% is really what you should be aiming for 100% of the time.

I agree with that Greebo, when i said my swing speed is my swing speed its around 80%...i can stand and practice swing way faster than actual swing but put ball in the way i just wont lash it. Better golf is played in that 80% to 85% range id say

The_Kew_Tour

I hit the ball a fair wack. I dont play as much Golf as I like, but it be 10 times a year sadly. But I hit it fair way down. But I loose about 2 balls per round.:o

I did get a tip from a guy who told me to only go 3/4 of the way up my back swing. I tried it on a round over the xmas as got round in and could not believe how accurate I was hitting it. In cold weather ball does not go as far. I say I lost only 10 yards no more and was just nice to be able to hit about 80% of fairways.