Can I get outbidded after I paid my deposit?

BeatNikDub

My understanding is that estate agents are legally bound to bring all offers to the vendor as their client.
If the vendor advises to take the higher one, that is what they must do.

Kettleson

I couldn't believe that this practice existed in Ireland. I was told by several auctioneers/estate agents that this was a "Gentlemans Agreement" and was common practice in Ireland, Yeah Right! Typical BS.

Nothing is final until the contracts are exchanged, and the money is in the bank, although someone is going to pull me up on that for sure.

What I did when last purchasing a property, was to ask the if we, the vendor and myself "agreed" the sale, then the auctioneers would take the property off the market, which they did, but still meant nothing in real terms. Nothing is confirmed until the conveyancing is complete.

Kettleson

BeatNikDub wrote: »

My understanding is that estate agents are legally bound to bring all offers to the vendor as their client.
If the vendor advises to take the higher one, that is what they must do.

Sounds right, but they didn't often do that in practice. I tried to buy 2 properties which were subject to divorce settlement. In each case I offered way over what the properties were eventually sold for. In one case 60K more.

That property was bought by a family member of one of the divorcing couple....

Markcheese

If you really think you've dicked about ,do the same back to the estate agent (but you might well lose that house)
Tell the ea that you really want it .. Offer significantly more , go sale agreed (but keep looking around) when everything is nearing conclusion go back with a lower bid ... Alright you'll lose solicitors fees ect if they tell you where to go, but you'll get your estate agent deposit back ..eventually ..

bacon?

I bought my place back in 2005, I never trusted estate agents, and was sure they were pulling bids out of their a$$.

I got into a bidding war with one "supposed" party. I stopped at 240k, estate agent said they bid 260k... so, I walked.

A couple of days later he rings me back and told me the good news that the other party wasn't interested anymore... he had the cheek to expect 260k! even if this was a real bidder, it should never have counted... anyway, I'm sure they're not all bad, but back when things were crazy, I'm sure there was a lot of fraud going on.

It's crazy that there's no transparancy when dealing with this kind of cash

AngryHippie

No Pants wrote: »

Could also just be trying it on, a phantom bid to see if you can pony up some more cash, especially since you just handed over €5k. Ask for your deposit back immediately and say nothing more. Unless you're happy to potentially be the only party in a bidding war.

Then when they come crawling back, offer 3 grand less than your original offer.

woodseb

alot of people here willing to take a moral stand with the OP's money.....

my advice is that it is impossible to second guess the estate agent, it is also quite likely in this market that you were genuinely gazumped

if you still want the property and think its value at above the new bid, by all means make another - in 5/10 years time when you have your home at the price you were willing to pay you won't care for this back and forth with the EA

Frank Black

As someone has previously posted, at the rates that EA's make off a sale, it's not worth their while trying to invent phantom €5K bids. They just want to close the sale ASAP and get paid. It's almost certain that the €5K bid is genuine, so you need to decide whether to walk or up your bid.

whippet

woodseb wrote: »

my advice is that it is impossible to second guess the estate agent, it is also quite likely in this market that you were genuinely gazumped

i'd echo this.

It happened to me where we were sale agreed (while no deposit was paid over) and I was contacted the morning I was to pay over the deposit that a new bidder came in at €5k over my offer. That was a friday and I just told the EA to forget about it (assuming that the new bidder was a sham)

But over the course of the weekend I got local knowledge that there was in fact a new bidder (had never even viewed the property) ... from a little more digging it turned out to be a friend of the EA. To cut a long story short what we ended up doing was calling the Vendor directly and telling them what we found out ... came to an agreement that we would match the gazumping price and she would instruct the EA not to entertain any more offers and take it off the market.

We were being used by the EA to set a floor on what the vendor would offer to facilitate their mate. I had words with the EA after all was done and dusted ... but like water off ducks back.

IITYWYBMAD

Frank Black wrote: »

As someone has previously posted, at the rates that EA's make off a sale, it's not worth their while trying to invent phantom €5K bids. They just want to close the sale ASAP and get paid. It's almost certain that the €5K bid is genuine, so you need to decide whether to walk or up your bid.

That's not necessarily true. I know of cases where EA's were encouraged to get an extra 5-10K on the bais that anything above a certain amount, they would be given a high percentage. It can work well for the EA and the vendor.

My advice, would be to request your deposit back and walk. There is talk of legislation in the spring that will ensure full transparency for situations like this.

daheff

Kettleson wrote: »

Sounds right, but they didn't often do that in practice. I tried to buy 2 properties which were subject to divorce settlement. In each case I offered way over what the properties were eventually sold for. In one case 60K more.

That property was bought by a family member of one of the divorcing couple....

There is no requirement for the vendor to accept your offer just because its the highest. In a situation like the one outlined above, this would probably have been the best solution to this messy situation for the vendors. Your offer of 60K above may not have resolved other issues the vendors had or would have faced if they sold the property to you

Kettleson

daheff wrote: »

There is no requirement for the vendor to accept your offer just because its the highest. In a situation like the one outlined above, this would probably have been the best solution to this messy situation for the vendors. Your offer of 60K above may not have resolved other issues the vendors had or would have faced if they sold the property to you

Sure, but in that case, why put house on the open market at all? only to establish a possible market value and yet sell it for much less? The question was did the auctioneer pass on the offer? And would the other party in the settlement have benefited from a higher sale price? Who won and who lost? Who can say for sure?

I know (well allegedly according to the vendor) in another case that the EA didn't pass on the bid, whether by bad administration or intent, or "Sale Agreed" status.

I got a call directly from a guy who was selling a house and asked me was I still interested because they were just about to go into final stage of their sale. I had already put 2 offers in with the EA.

I said I was no longer interested as I had already moved on another house. But I asked him did he get my second higher offer from the EA, which was higher than the then current highest bid, and he said that he hadn't. (I'm guessing at that time the sale was "agreed" with the other eventual buyer.

Maybe he did get the offer, maybe he didn't, who's to say. But that's the facts from my end. The house I believe went for less than my second offer.

flintash

well my last expierance was that auctioneer wouldnt entertain me. i rang next day after bid being accepted and was out of the game. they didnt tell me what the wining bid was and i didnt throw bags of cash over the asking, as it was going litle under the asking.so depends on parties- some are gentleman some not

skimpydoo

Get a friend to enquire about the property and see what the estate agent says to them.

jon1981

flintash wrote: »

well my last expierance was that auctioneer wouldnt entertain me. i rang next day after bid being accepted and was out of the game. they didnt tell me what the wining bid was and i didnt throw bags of cash over the asking, as it was going litle under the asking.so depends on parties- some are gentleman some not

Agreed, this was my experience too. I remember many times ringing up about a property to be told a bid was just accepted and was never asked if I wanted to submit an offer or my status (cash or mortgage). Perhaps it was the time of the year (October) and the EA didn't want to introduce the possibility of not closing before Christmas and therefore not hitting a target or something.

Kristopherus

A deposit usually secures an asset and a contract is in place in pretty much all walks of life, EXCEPT where an auctioneer is concerned. Gazumping is wrong, wrong,wrong, but I cannot see our wonderful govt reforming this "profession" any time soon.:mad:

D3PO

Kristopherus wrote: »

A deposit usually secures an asset and a contract is in place in pretty much all walks of life, EXCEPT where an auctioneer is concerned. Gazumping is wrong, wrong,wrong, but I cannot see our wonderful govt reforming this "profession" any time soon.:mad:

but its ok for a tenant to give a deposit change their mind on the rental and get there money back right .... :rolleyes:

or its ok for gazundering by buyers when they can .... :rolleyes: