Children's Hospital

rodento

Calls to move the proposed site to a new location, parking, access, site suitability and nearby location of a sewer the reasons

St. James's "worst possible location" for Children's Hospital http://www.newstalk.ie/St-Jamess-worst-possible-location-for-Childrens-Hospital

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/group-proposes-children-s-hospital-near-m50-1.1668508

Call me Al

I thought this had already been decided on and finalised, and that the building works would have already started at the James's site.
I always thought the N3 Blanchardstown greenfield was a better location to the one chosen, but surely they (ie the DOH) need to be making progress with this plan, wherever it is for.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Sure wasn't the Mater meant to be the worse possible site? Is every proposed location going to be the worse possible site? I think, with a project of this complexity, there will be drawbacks and advantages to every proposed location.

I'd be wary of the apparent source of that quote. Private medicine in Ireland has its own agenda, and it rarely coincides with the public interest.

For what its worth, I felt the choice of the Mater had the advantage that it would be more accessible by public transport (and, yes, I do include people coming to the facility from anywhere in the country when I say that). I think choosing a location, in this day and age, that assumes staff and clients will be getting to it by private transport is dumb. James' isn't quite as good as the Mater from a national public transport point of view. But a greenfield site in Blanch (or the Newlands Cross suggestion that is sometimes heard) would be absolutely gaga.

OMD

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Sure wasn't the Mater meant to be the worse possible site? Is every proposed location going to be the worse possible site? I think, with a project of this complexity, there will be drawbacks and advantages to every proposed location.

I'd be wary of the apparent source of that quote. Private medicine in Ireland has its own agenda, and it rarely coincides with the public interest.

For what its worth, I felt the choice of the Mater had the advantage that it would be more accessible by public transport (and, yes, I do include people coming to the facility from anywhere in the country when I say that). I think choosing a location, in this day and age, that assumes staff and clients will be getting to it by private transport is dumb. James' isn't quite as good as the Mater from a national public transport point of view. But a greenfield site in Blanch (or the Newlands Cross suggestion that is sometimes heard) would be absolutely gaga.

How is Mater better than James's from a national public transport point of view? Janes's has Luas to both Connolly and Heuston.

Paulzx

OMD wrote: »

How is Mater better than James's from a national public transport point of view? Janes's has Luas to both Connolly and Heuston.

Agreed. I've no idea how anyone can say that the existing public tranpsort arrangements are better for the Mater than St James hospital.

As you said Luas runs through the hospital linking with the 2 main rail stations.

No matter which county from outside Dublin you are travelling from by car you have to cross the M50/M1/M11. These all link to the Red Cow Junction which is very close to St James by car or has a Park and Ride and a 10 min journey on the Luas to the door of the hospital.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

OMD wrote: »

How is Mater better than James's from a national public transport point of view? Janes's has Luas to both Connolly and Heuston.

It does, but bear in mind that considerable parts of the country are not served by rail.

I'm not saying James' is particularly badly served; I'd deem it adequate, as any location will have positives and negatives.

OMD

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

It does, but bear in mind that considerable parts of the country are not served by rail.

I'm not saying James' is particularly badly served; I'd deem it adequate, as any location will have positives and negatives.

But how is Mater better?

ressem

The final Dolphin Report wrote:

However, Connolly Hospital would need very substantial investment of human and capital resources to develop over time into an adult tertiary hospital with critical mass supported by leading-edge research facilities, and even if such resources could be made available it could take several decades to achieve such high standards of clinical and research. excellence. The proposed integration with Beaumont and RCSI, and the Universities, would have to be accelerated.

That's the issue that Dr Sheehan needs to address. Maybe he did in the full speech but not in the snippit on the Newstalk site.
Jonathon Irwin made a better attempt than Dr Sheehan but believes that having the adult hospital adjacent is not necessary and focused on space and planning.

http://www.dohc.ie/issues/childrens_hospital/final_report_etc/Supplementary_Analysis_Planning_%20Report_19Oct2012.pdf?direct=1 wrote:

Potential strategic land bank
The report of the Review Group noted that there are a number of possible solutions that could build on the strengths of the proposals presented by SJH and the Coombe Hospital, given their proximity to each other.
Should the Government select the SJH site as the location of the Children’s Hospital, we are satisfied that the overall 6.3 ha site being offered is capable of accommodating both that hospital and a 25,000 sq metre maternity hospital, together with a further 32,000 sq metres expansion capacity, subject to satisfactory resolution of the planning issues identified in the previous chapter.
Should the Government also decide to acquire the 6.2 ha site off the South Circular Road as a strategic land bank, we believe that this would not only significantly enhance the planning and development context for the two new hospitals, but would also offer a more sustainable future for the entire SJH campus (and potentially also for the Coombe Hospital, given its proximity to the 6.2 ha site)

So while James goes through the planning process, and if it fails as the two gents believe it will, will Connolly and associates be closer to integration by then?

murphaph

OMD wrote: »

But how is Mater better?

The Mater has a metro station (box) under it ;-)

GCU Flexible Demeanour

OMD wrote: »

But how is Mater better?

Oh, simply because its closer to the centre city, and so more accessible to users of non-rail public transport.

Paulzx

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Oh, simply because its closer to the centre city, and so more accessible to users of non-rail public transport.

The Mater is about 1 mile from O' Connell bridge whilst St James is about a mile and a half. It's hardly a massive difference between the two. Getting a bus for 1 mile or 2 is not exactly an issue and you also have the option of the Luas from the city center if going to St James.

There is no way that the Mater wins on any accessability criteria be it rail, bus, tram or private car

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Paulzx wrote: »

Getting a bus for 1 mile or 2 is not exactly an issue and you also have the option of the Luas from the city center if going to St James.

Fair point.

Godge

(A) If you take a short-term 10-year perspective, you go with St. James or the Mater as you keep the consultants and the lobby groups happy and you might be able to get around the space and planning restrictions.

(B) However, if you take the longer-term perspective, demographic growth, space and planning needs, future-proofing, you go with Connolly Hospital.

Our politicians were only ever going to choose something from (A)

rodento

OMD wrote: »

How is Mater better than James's from a national public transport point of view? Janes's has Luas to both Connolly and Heuston.

The road to James also shares a Luas line and it's currently a nightmare to get in and out of

Shelflife

As someone who travelled from the west to olhsc for 4 years, accessibility was always a pain, parking was a joke and while the motorway has made life so much easier , finding somewhere to park with a sick child in the car was a nightmare.

Some patients esp cancer patients can't travel by public transport as they have little or no immune system on occasion, so driving is the only option.

For me having the children's hospital in the city centre would be a nightmare, trying to find parking close by on top of the crazy parking fees would be so unfair on those outside the pale.

Wherever they decide at least let them be practical about it and have decent parking facilities. After a 4hr drive having to drive around for another 45mins looking or queuing for parking was a nightmare.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Godge wrote: »

(B) However, if you take the longer-term perspective, demographic growth, space and planning needs, future-proofing, you go with Connolly Hospital.

I'm not sure that's right. Longer-term doesn't mean assume a linear trend.

Shelflife wrote: »

For me having the children's hospital in the city centre would be a nightmare, trying to find parking close by on top of the crazy parking fees would be so unfair on those outside the pale.

But, on the other hand, it's not really sound to built the facility around the assumption that private transport will be the norm. It's what we're used to; it's just not a basis for sensible future planning.

jmayo

Over the weekend Jonathan Irwin of Jack and Jill was on radio and he said the exact same thing.
And this guy problably knows more about sick children than most of the people around here trumpeting about how James is better than The Mater.
Neither are really suitable.

He made the point that it is all about politics, medical politics and politics politics.

BTW he is one of the few, if only, leader of a charity organisation that has come out of the last few months with any dignity when he admitted his salary is around 90k with no add ons, pensions, etc and that he didn't take any salary for a number of years.

OMD wrote: »

How is Mater better than James's from a national public transport point of view? Janes's has Luas to both Connolly and Heuston.

I seriously do not know why people always harp on about public transport when the siting of this comes up ?
How many people actually take sick children to hospital on public transport in this country ??
Yes public transport is handy for some of the workers and visitors, but lets face it a lot of people have to drive to get around in this country.
Thus ease of access and parking are damm important.
If anyone has any doubts then check out the carparks in any of our major hospitals any day of the week.

Also expandablity is something to consider for the long term.

Paulzx wrote: »

Agreed. I've no idea how anyone can say that the existing public tranpsort arrangements are better for the Mater than St James hospital.

As you said Luas runs through the hospital linking with the 2 main rail stations.

No matter which county from outside Dublin you are travelling from by car you have to cross the M50/M1/M11. These all link to the Red Cow Junction which is very close to St James by car or has a Park and Ride and a 10 min journey on the Luas to the door of the hospital.

I know of one family with child with leukemia.
They are in and out of hospital every other week.
They live in Wicklow and public transport is not a runner since they would have to drive 12 odd miles to a station, then train into city, then luas to hospital.
Or else drive to Red Cow and take Luas.
And as other poster pointed out the child's immune system is shot so there is no bloddy way in hell they are getting on a luas, train or any other thing with other people who could kill their child.

Another family I know in Mayo has a child that has become paralyzed.
So are they going to drive 20 miles to railway station, catch a train to Dublin, or drive to Red Cow to then get on Luas with a child that is in a wheelchair.

I swear some people haven't a fooking clue.

For once we should use the oft quoted mantra, "Please Think of The Kids".
The primary ones that this hospital should cater for is the kids, then their families, then the staff and visitors.

And people should remember this is a NATIONAL childrens hospital, meaning people from around the country will be visiting it.

That means that the hospital is easily accessible for cars, there is more than sufficent parking, there is lots of room for the development of play areas, there is lots of room to develop on site accommodation for families.

And for anyone outside of greater Dublin or a our major cities please check out our public transport infrastructure some time.
Oh and try put yourself in the shoes of a poor family who have the misfortune to have a child with sever illness or disability.
Because I think if you did, you would have the cop on to know they aint going to be quueing up at the Red Cow for a Luas. :mad:

GCU Flexible Demeanour

jmayo wrote: »

So are they going to drive 20 miles to railway station, catch a train to Dublin, or drive to Red Cow to then get on Luas with a child that is in a wheelchair.

All rail rolling stock is able to accommodate wheelchairs. Luas was designed to be wheelchair accessbile from the start.

jmayo wrote: »

And people should remember this is a NATIONAL childrens hospital, meaning people from around the country will be visiting it.

That means that the hospital is easily accessible for cars

But the point is that just isn't sensible. I know that requires a major change in outlook, give in particular that about a quarter of our housing stock has been built in random fields. But you really can't plan for a national children's hospital like you were locating a branch of IKEA. It has to be accessible.

And, no, you can't get around this by shroud waving about people with low immune systems. Yes, there will be folk who it only makes sense to move by ambulance. But putting the goddam thing in a field beside a motorway is actually the suggest that makes you think.

jmayo wrote: »

I swear some people haven't a fooking clue.

Paulzx

jmayo wrote: »

Over the weekend Jonathan Irwin of Jack and Jill was on radio and he said the exact same thing.
And this guy problably knows more about sick children than most of the people around here trumpeting about how James is better than The Mater.
Neither are really suitable.

He made the point that it is all about politics, medical politics and politics politics.

BTW he is one of the few, if only, leader of a charity organisation that has come out of the last few months with any dignity when he admitted his salary is around 90k with no add ons, pensions, etc and that he didn't take any salary for a number of years.



I seriously do not know why people always harp on about public transport when the siting of this comes up ?
How many people actually take sick children to hospital on public transport in this country ??
Yes public transport is handy for some of the workers and visitors, but lets face it a lot of people have to drive to get around in this country.
Thus ease of access and parking are damm important.
If anyone has any doubts then check out the carparks in any of our major hospitals any day of the week.

Also expandablity is something to consider for the long term.





I know of one family with child with leukemia.
They are in and out of hospital every other week.
They live in Wicklow and public transport is not a runner since they would have to drive 12 odd miles to a station, then train into city, then luas to hospital.
Or else drive to Red Cow and take Luas.
And as other poster pointed out the child's immune system is shot so there is no bloddy way in hell they are getting on a luas, train or any other thing with other people who could kill their child.

Another family I know in Mayo has a child that has become paralyzed.
So are they going to drive 20 miles to railway station, catch a train to Dublin, or drive to Red Cow to then get on Luas with a child that is in a wheelchair.

I swear some people haven't a fooking clue.

For once we should use the oft quoted mantra, "Please Think of The Kids".
The primary ones that this hospital should cater for is the kids, then their families, then the staff and visitors.

And people should remember this is a NATIONAL childrens hospital, meaning people from around the country will be visiting it.

That means that the hospital is easily accessible for cars, there is more than sufficent parking, there is lots of room for the development of play areas, there is lots of room to develop on site accommodation for families.

And for anyone outside of greater Dublin or a our major cities please check out our public transport infrastructure some time.
Oh and try put yourself in the shoes of a poor family who have the misfortune to have a child with sever illness or disability.
Because I think if you did, you would have the cop on to know they aint going to be quueing up at the Red Cow for a Luas. :mad:

Eh........if you read the full part of my post that you quoted you would see that i stated that the Red Cow M50 junction is close to St James by car. I too believe that it is ridiculous to expect sick kids to be brought to a childrens hospital by public transport alone. St James is much more accessible to car traffic from outside Dublin than the Mater.

Public transport however is still relevant as people visiting, people attending for routine appointments and hospital staff still require the option

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Paulzx wrote: »

I too believe that it is ridiculous to expect sick kids to be brought to a childrens hospital by public transport alone.

As, indeed, we all do.

Just as, hopefully, many of us are aware that many children are brought by their parents to outpatient clinics on public transport.

OMD

Godge wrote: »

(A) If you take a short-term 10-year perspective, you go with St. James or the Mater as you keep the consultants and the lobby groups happy and you might be able to get around the space and planning restrictions.

(B) However, if you take the longer-term perspective, demographic growth, space and planning needs, future-proofing, you go with Connolly Hospital.

Our politicians were only ever going to choose something from (A)

There is absolutely no reason to go to Connolly. It makes no sense on any grounds except to ensure Connolly does not close down. (Which realistically should happen but that is a different argument). There are two real options. Either collocate in which case the only options are James's or Mater. The other option is a greenfield site which in my opinion is the best option. By the way consultants or other lobby groups have not lobbied for Mater/James's any more than greenfield site.
If you decide to co-locate then James's s a better option than Mater.

Shelflife

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

All rail rolling stock is able to accommodate wheelchairs. Luas was designed to be wheelchair accessbile from the start.But the point is that just isn't sensible. I know that requires a major change in outlook, give in particular that about a quarter of our housing stock has been built in random fields. But you really can't plan for a national children's hospital like you were locating a branch of IKEA. It has to be accessible.

And, no, you can't get around this by shroud waving about people with low immune systems. Yes, there will be folk who it only makes sense to move by ambulance. But putting the goddam thing in a field beside a motorway is actually the suggest that makes you think.

Im not suggesting that we build the hospital somewhere that has a big car park, But building it somewhere ,where there is limited parking is madness.

BTW its not shroud waving, its highlighting problems that all cancer patients/parents complained about in OLHSC, that's a whole ward that suffer from low immunity and therefore cannot use public transport, also on the rare occasion that it would be safe to use it (once in fours years for us) the train or bus times don't always suit.

I cant speak for any of the other patients needs but I can for the cancer patients. but I would say that many other patients would suffer from low immunity on occasion as well.

Car parking for patients is not the highest priority by a long way, but accessibility is a consideration that needs to be looked on as well.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Shelflife wrote: »

Car parking for patients is not the highest priority by a long way, but accessibility is a consideration that needs to be looked on as well.

Again, I think that's a point we all agree on.

aliveandkicking

For those complaining about James' due to parking issues, have you actually looked up the plans? There is going to be 3 levels of underground car parking with elevator access direct to the main hospital concourse. If it operates anything like the current underground car park in the main St James' hospital, they have a special rate for families with seriously ill patients who are spending a lot of time at the hospital i.e. they don't pay the full exorbitant rate for car parking.

So with James' families have the following options to get to the hospital:
1. Driving direct to and parking at the hospital
2. Driving to Red Cow park and ride and get a Luas to hospital
3. Get a train to Heuston/Connolly then Luas to hospital
4. Bus Eireann to Bus Aras then Luas to hospital.
5. From Dublin, Dublin Bus Route 123 runs through the hospital while a number of other routes run past it.

Hospital plans are through this link, Page 34 for floor elevations.
http://www.stjames.ie/NationalChildrensandMaternityHospital/NCMHDP.pdf

jmayo

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

All rail rolling stock is able to accommodate wheelchairs. Luas was designed to be wheelchair accessbile from the start.But the point is that just isn't sensible. I know that requires a major change in outlook, give in particular that about a quarter of our housing stock has been built in random fields. But you really can't plan for a national children's hospital like you were locating a branch of IKEA. It has to be accessible.

It doesn't matter how Luas or rail cars are built to cater for wheelchairs, it is too damm awkward and inaccessible for most of the country.
Hell public transport in the greater dublin area is cr** unless you happen to live along the route that you want to go to.
Fine if you want to get from Tallaght or anywhere along that Luas route to James, but what do you do if you want to get from Blanchardstown to James or Stillorgan to James.
And then the situation is far worse once you leave Dublin and it's environs.
Crossing the city via public transport is slow and a pain in the ar**, nevermind doing it with a sick or disabled child.
And please do not tell us private road transport is bad and will probably change in the future when we do not have the public system to replace it in the meantime.

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

And, no, you can't get around this by shroud waving about people with low immune systems. Yes, there will be folk who it only makes sense to move by ambulance.

It is not just by ambulance.
You definitely have no fooking idea.

BTW your comment stinks and you better God damm well hope you are never in the sad position to personally experience a child with a low immune system or anything else that would have you in and out to a childrens hospital.

Paulzx wrote: »

Eh........if you read the full part of my post that you quoted you would see that i stated that the Red Cow M50 junction is close to St James by car. I too believe that it is ridiculous to expect sick kids to be brought to a childrens hospital by public transport alone. St James is much more accessible to car traffic from outside Dublin than the Mater.

That is kinda like saying having your left leg amputated is better than having the right done.
Neither of the sites are bloody suitable and more than a few people have said this.

There should have been a big long term plan to move out of the city altogether.
We also have 2 or 3 maternity hospitals that also long term need to be moved.
The so called National Maternity hospital in Holles St is another joke that is totally unsuitable for purpose.
Ever tried to park around there, nevermind reach it in rush hour.
Or do some of the muppets around here envisage pregnant women in labour using public transport to get there as well. :rolleyes:

Getting into and out of James can be a nightmare and the last thing people with sick kids need.

Paulzx wrote: »

Public transport however is still relevant as people visiting, people attending for routine appointments and hospital staff still require the option

And can there be no public transport outside of the city centre and I count both James, Mater and even the likes of Vincents as being city centre ?

Why couldn't there have been a long term plan to site a massive new hospital complex outside city along a Luas route that would connect with major rail stations ?
Why not have it closer to Tallaght ?
Wasn't there meant to be link to CityWest ?

Of course we will hear the mantra that it has to be co-located beside a big established hospital.
But if that was the case then how come around the world new hospitals are built not beside existing hospitals?

Like everything in this country it is planned for yesterday, nevermind today or tomorrow and by the time it comes in over budget and years behind schedule it will be time to redisign it.

It is politics, a lot of it medical, and anyone that claims it hasn't has their heads up their asses.

Paulzx

jmayo wrote: »

It doesn't matter how Luas or rail cars are built to cater for wheelchairs, it is too damm awkward and inaccessible for most of the country.
Hell public transport in the greater dublin area is cr** unless you happen to live along the route that you want to go to.
Fine if you want to get from Tallaght or anywhere along that Luas route to James, but what do you do if you want to get from Blanchardstown to James or Stillorgan to James.
And then the situation is far worse once you leave Dublin and it's environs.
Crossing the city via public transport is slow and a pain in the ar**, nevermind doing it with a sick or disabled child.
And please do not tell us private road transport is bad and will probably change in the future when we do not have the public system to replace it in the meantime.



It is not just by ambulance.
You definitely have no fooking idea.

BTW your comment stinks and you better God damm well hope you are never in the sad position to personally experience a child with a low immune system or anything else that would have you in and out to a childrens hospital.



That is kinda like saying having your left leg amputated is better than having the right done.
Neither of the sites are bloody suitable and more than a few people have said this.

There should have been a big long term plan to move out of the city altogether.
We also have 2 or 3 maternity hospitals that also long term need to be moved.
The so called National Maternity hospital in Holles St is another joke that is totally unsuitable for purpose.
Ever tried to park around there, nevermind reach it in rush hour.
Or do some of the muppets around here envisage pregnant women in labour using public transport to get there as well. :rolleyes:

Getting into and out of James can be a nightmare and the last thing people with sick kids need.



And can there be no public transport outside of the city centre and I count both James, Mater and even the likes of Vincents as being city centre ?

Why couldn't there have been a long term plan to site a massive new hospital complex outside city along a Luas route that would connect with major rail stations ?
Why not have it closer to Tallaght ?
Wasn't there meant to be link to CityWest ?

Of course we will hear the mantra that it has to be co-located beside a big established hospital.
But if that was the case then how come around the world new hospitals are built not beside existing hospitals?

Like everything in this country it is planned for yesterday, nevermind today or tomorrow and by the time it comes in over budget and years behind schedule it will be time to redisign it.

It is politics, a lot of it medical, and anyone that claims it hasn't has their heads up their asses.

I've no idea why you feel the need to be aggressive and antagonistic towards other posters. Calling them "muppets" and telling them "they've no fooking idea" is a bit above board especially since no one else has posted towards you in that style.

No one has made any claims that St James is ideal. Some (including me) have an opinion that it is better than the Mater site. You've decided to have a rant at both sites and most of the posters as well.

At this stage i just want to see the hospital built. It has been long term enough in its plans without delaying any more. I too have a child with a long term condition that will effect them for the rest of their life and i know well of the unsuitability of the existing hospitals.

I just want a decent hospital built while my child is just that i.e. still a child

It is irritating when people go on about using public transport to accesses a major hospital for very sick children, it is just not going to happen, the vast majority will come by car that just the way it is, it is no more that a green politics sustainable living bla bla wet dream to think the parents will use public transport. No parent with a seriously ill child will come up form say Westmeath for their twice weakly appointments in the hospital with their seriously ill child using public transport.

To me the children's hospital symbolise all that is wrong with this country it is all about politics, it has been designed and re designed three time all ready how much did that cost.

Paulzx

mariaalice wrote: »

It is irritating when people go on about using public transport to accesses a major hospital for very sick children, it is just not going to happen, the vast majority will come by car that just the way it is, it is no more that a green politics sustainable living bla bla wet dream to think the parents will use public transport. No parent with a seriously ill child will come up form say Westmeath for their twice weakly appointments in the hospital with their seriously ill child using public transport.

To me the children's hospital symbolise all that is wrong with this country it is all about politics, it has been designed and re designed three time all ready how much did that cost.

Extremely sick children are not the only people that will travel to the hospital. I think its quite apparent to everyone that private car journeys will make up the bulk of how seriously ill kids get to the hospitall no matter where it is.

However, extremely sick kids are not the only people who will go there every day. Hundreds of staff and routine out patient visitorss will also be travelling each day. If the hospital is to be built in a city center location (the merits of this are a different arguement) well then the best existing location combining private car and public transport should be used.

I absolutely agree with you on the interference of politics causing untold delays and cost overruns on this project. It needs to move along or we'll never get the hospital

GCU Flexible Demeanour

jmayo wrote: »

It is not just by ambulance.

And I'm not suggesting it is. I'm simply pointing out that there will be a category who wouldn't be able to get there under their own steam.

jmayo wrote: »

BTW your comment stinks and you better God damm well hope you are never in the sad position to personally experience a child with a low immune system or anything else that would have you in and out to a childrens hospital.

Ah, you're letting yourself down by coming out with the usual kind of ignorant, insulting comment that people resort to when they've little to say for themselves.

Paulzx wrote: »

However, extremely sick kids are not the only people who will go there every day. Hundreds of staff and routine out patient visitorss will also be travelling each day. If the hospital is to be built in a city center location (the merits of this are a different arguement) well then the best existing location combining private car and public transport should be used.

That's about the size of it. And if the staff can't get there, there's no point in anyone else turning up. And, tbh, locating any facility as if accessibility just means accessibility by car is just plain daft. You could understand people thinking like that twenty years ago. But today, it's just not reasonable.

Looking back over the thread, several posts have put it in a very balanced way. Transport links are one, but only one, of the consideration.

Godge

OMD wrote: »

There is absolutely no reason to go to Connolly. It makes no sense on any grounds except to ensure Connolly does not close down. (Which realistically should happen but that is a different argument). There are two real options. Either collocate in which case the only options are James's or Mater. The other option is a greenfield site which in my opinion is the best option. By the way consultants or other lobby groups have not lobbied for Mater/James's any more than greenfield site.
If you decide to co-locate then James's s a better option than Mater.

Strange contradiction in that post.

Connolly is a greenfield site, plenty of space, all state-owned, not by the church or the nuns/

At the same time, it offers the potential for co-location as it is where the population is growing, it makes no sense to close connolly, in fact one of the city centre hospitals should be downgraded to allow for a facility where the population is.

Paulzx

There is absolutely no way that the Northside of Dublin could cope with the loss of Connolly Hospital. Beaumount and the Mater are stuffed to bursting as it is and the A and E's can't cope without taking on Connolly's workload.


Connolly certainly doesn't need a kids hospital to justify its existance. There are however some good reasons for building it there based on the space available and proximity to the M50.

rodento

Planning is delayed

http://www.thejournal.ie/childrens-hospital-delay-will-not-affect-opening-date-1393807-Apr2014/

nice_guy80

Its getting beyond a farce now. The building and planning consultants must love it though. Raking in nice fees while this all goes on