Warburton Signs Central Contract with the Welsh Rugby Union

Woody1997

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sam-warburton-central-contract-wales-1282865-Jan2014/?utm_source=twitter_self

Very interesting this. Maybe the Welsh are pleased with how we have managed to keep the majority of our front line players. Obviously way too early to tell but could this be the way forward for Welsh rugby?

Rightwing

Woody1997 wrote: »

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sam-warburton-central-contract-wales-1282865-Jan2014/?utm_source=twitter_self

Very interesting this. Maybe the Welsh are pleased with how we have managed to keep the majority of our front line players. Obviously way too early to tell but could this be the way forward for Welsh rugby?

Did he go to Toulon too to check things out?

Good move for the Welsh anyway that they can hold on to a few key players.

Podge_irl

Its an interesting development. The regions were fairly dead set against central contracts and this seems to have been done without really getting their approval. Still, it would be difficult to imagine the regions would then turn around and say they don't wan't Warburton to play for them. Wonder if they'll have to pay the WRU for Warburton to play for them or what exactly the situation is.

1st dalkey dalkey

Is it the beginning of the WRU taking back control of their clubs.

The threat by the clubs to leave the Pro 12 and the H/Cup and go play in the PRL would lead to the end of professional Welsh rugby, slowly followed by the end of a competitive International team. They could not allow that to happen, thus this move and their recent statement of intent to create 3 new regions if the clubs went ahead. A few more senior central contract signings would put them in a position to carry out their strategy, if pushed to it. Will the clubs push?

Of perhaps more interest, is the RFU watching and wondering if this approach would work for them. Equally, the FFR know that their international team is slowly being strangled by their clubs tendency to buy in foreign talent rather then bring on their own. Will they see this as a partial solution to their problem.

Have the Unions finally woken up to the danger they faced?

aimee1

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9134783,00.html

strange. Warburton could end up playing in just 12 test matches a season

Rightwing

aimee1 wrote: »

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9134783,00.html

strange. Warburton could end up playing in just 12 test matches a season

It's some mess in Wales at the moment, have to give him credit though, had 2 offers from France, and stuck with the WRU.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Rightwing wrote: »

It's some mess in Wales at the moment, have to give him credit though, had 2 offers from France, and stuck with the WRU.

There has been talk on 606v2 about loaning welsh players to english clubs next season

Rightwing

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

There has been talk on 606v2 about loaning welsh players to english clubs next season

The likes of Warburton ?

Podge_irl

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

There has been talk on 606v2 about loaning welsh players to english clubs next season

Hmm...not entirely sure how that would work. Considering NH got fined for releasing North I can't imagine PRL would be overly enamoured with the idea of WRU contracted players playing for premiership teams.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Rightwing wrote: »

The likes of Warburton ?

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/domestic-club-rugby-union/pro12-celtic-league/13423/wru-will-move-their-op-stars-to-england/

Its actually a plan the wru has told agents about

Rightwing

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/domestic-club-rugby-union/pro12-celtic-league/13423/wru-will-move-their-op-stars-to-england/

Its actually a plan the wru has told agents about

That's an interesting development, spells trouble for the likes of Cardiff I think. But it's a bit out of date re Halfpenny at any rate.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Rightwing wrote: »

That's an interesting development, spells trouble for the likes of Cardiff I think. But it's a bit out of date re Halfpenny at any rate.

Yeah the wru came out with it at the start of the month

Larbre34

The PRL may ensure WRU contractors are not accepted by English clubs, in order not to break solidarity with RRW, in which case the Taffs may have some very undercooked test stars on their hands.

Its just another ******* poker game.

Rightwing

Larbre34 wrote: »

The PRL may ensure WRU contractors are not accepted by English clubs, in order not to break solidarity with RRW, in which case the Taffs may have some very undercooked test stars on their hands.

Its just another ******* poker game.

You could easily see that happen, I wonder would the Scots/Italians/Irish take a few ?

irishbucsfan

Al Wyn Jones turned down the central contract offer and signed with the Ospreys it seems. He does seem to be more on the Regions side though from before.

former legend

According to the Telegraph, Warburton's deal is £270,000 per annum, i.e. €325,000. It's a fair wedge of cash for a guy with chronic injury problems but it's not exactly a blockbuster deal for the Lions captain either.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

former legend wrote: »

According to the Telegraph, Warburton's deal is £270,000 per annum, i.e. €325,000. It's a fair wedge of cash for a guy with chronic injury problems but it's not exactly a blockbuster deal for the Lions captain either.

Fair wedge for a guy who has looked distinctly average the few times he does play for the Blues every year too. If there was one guy worth letting go it's Warburton imo

Larbre34

former legend wrote: »

According to the Telegraph, Warburton's deal is £270,000 per annum, i.e. €325,000. It's a fair wedge of cash for a guy with chronic injury problems but it's not exactly a blockbuster deal for the Lions captain stooge either.

FYP.

connemara man

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sam-warburton-sean-obrien-toulon-1284147-Jan2014/

he turned this down??? can't be real

thomond2006

connemara man wrote: »

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sam-warburton-sean-obrien-toulon-1284147-Jan2014/

he turned this down??? can't be real

I really can't believe that figure. Wilkinson is/was on that kind of money but he is an icon of rugby who probably brings in big sponsorship to the club. Warburton has Welsh duty and is injury prone.

Rightwing

connemara man wrote: »

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sam-warburton-sean-obrien-toulon-1284147-Jan2014/

he turned this down??? can't be real

Massive offer,I knew he had 2 contract offers from France, but that would seem almost impossible to turn down.

aimee1

connemara man wrote: »

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/sam-warburton-sean-obrien-toulon-1284147-Jan2014/

he turned this down??? can't be real

either Mourad has really gone mad or the Sam Warburton he watches is different from the one the rest of us watch. I dont get the hype about Warburton at all.

former legend

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/25921626

Comments from AW Jones on his decision to turn down the central contract:

Jones said there was no certainty of continuing to play for the Ospreys if he had taken up the WRU offer.

"Had there been an agreement where I knew I would definitely have been in the Ospreys it would have been more difficult for me to choose," he said.

"I am guaranteed rugby with the Ospreys. Admittedly, I don't know which competition I am going to be playing in, but the way the situation is at the minute if I had signed a central contract I wasn't guaranteed rugby and I didn't know what competition I was playing in.

"You could say I've gone with the safer option. I haven't tried to be controversial."

death1234567

aimee1 wrote: »

I dont get the hype about Warburton at all.

I agree. He shouldn't have been in the lions team nevermind captain and Tipuric is a better option for Wales.

.ak

I'm a massive Tips fan, and at times I've been very critical of Warburton, but after the 2nd test in Australia I have no doubt in my mind that Warburton is an absolute freak at the breakdown. It's not fancy Pocock kinda stuff, but for a tall lad he's near immovable over the ball. He's also hits ruck like a 2nd row, and when the squeeze comes on he can stay in there. Tipuric in the loose and as a link man is a great player but isn't as strong in the breakdown and can get blown out of it.

penybont exile

death1234567 wrote: »

I agree. He shouldn't have been in the lions team nevermind captain and Tipuric is a better option for Wales.

Nonsense .... if Warburton hadn't got injured the Lions would probably have won the 2nd test.

It was no coincidence that the Aussies started to get quick ball resulting in serious 'go forward' from that moment.

...... for those who are tempted .... spare me the JD missed tackle ... (broken record).

molloyjh

former legend wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/25921626

Comments from AW Jones on his decision to turn down the central contract:

I find that AWJ interview bizarre. He claims that the Ospreys can offer him guaranteed games but the WRU cannot. Surely that's absolutely 100% incorrect? The WRU decide what competitions Welsh teams play in and so if the Regions remain under the remit of the WRU he is guaranteed the games that the WRU approve. If the Regions leave the WRU they'll need to find another Union to take them on, which is by no means guaranteed. If anything it's unlikely.

So in both possible outcomes he's guaranteed games under the central contract. In the event if the Regions leaving the WRU and him being contracted to Ospreys there is no guarantee of anything at all.

CatFromHue

Yeah I didn't follow his argument either.

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

I find that AWJ interview bizarre. He claims that the Ospreys can offer him guaranteed games but the WRU cannot. Surely that's absolutely 100% incorrect? The WRU decide what competitions Welsh teams play in and so if the Regions remain under the remit of the WRU he is guaranteed the games that the WRU approve. If the Regions leave the WRU they'll need to find another Union to take them on, which is by no means guaranteed. If anything it's unlikely.

So in both possible outcomes he's guaranteed games under the central contract. In the event if the Regions leaving the WRU and him being contracted to Ospreys there is no guarantee of anything at all.

The regions have claimed they won't allow any centrally contracted players to play for them. So regardless of what competition the Ospreys end up in, if they are still independently owned a player on a central contract could find himself with no team to play for.

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

The regions have claimed they won't allow any centrally contracted players to play for them. So regardless of what competition the Ospreys end up in, if they are still independently owned a player on a central contract could find himself with no team to play for.

Given the number of players they have lost and are losing to France do they really have that luxury?

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

Given the number of players they have lost and are losing to France do they really have that luxury?

Well I don't think so but they're concerned about central contracts being brought in by stealth so they were quite adamant they wouldn't play any players on them.

Honestly, I have no clue what they'll actually do.

aimee1

penybont exile wrote: »

Nonsense .... if Warburton hadn't got injured the Lions would probably have won the 2nd test.

It was no coincidence that the Aussies started to get quick ball resulting in serious 'go forward' from that moment.

...... for those who are tempted .... spare me the JD missed tackle ... (broken record).

The lions did pretty ok in the third test without warburton

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

I find that AWJ interview bizarre. He claims that the Ospreys can offer him guaranteed games but the WRU cannot. Surely that's absolutely 100% incorrect? The WRU decide what competitions Welsh teams play in and so if the Regions remain under the remit of the WRU he is guaranteed the games that the WRU approve. If the Regions leave the WRU they'll need to find another Union to take them on, which is by no means guaranteed. If anything it's unlikely.

So in both possible outcomes he's guaranteed games under the central contract. In the event if the Regions leaving the WRU and him being contracted to Ospreys there is no guarantee of anything at all.

I think he meant he was guaranteed games for Ospreys.

In 'Scenario X' on a central contract, and with the Regions breaking from the WRU, he could not play for the Ospreys.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well I don't think so but they're concerned about central contracts being brought in by stealth so they were quite adamant they wouldn't play any players on them.

Honestly, I have no clue what they'll actually do.

On the Scrum V 'debate' the other week this was mentioned. The RRW have agreed that they are not to play any centrally contracted players, however it was discussed as being an extremely loose agreement, not worth worrying about. I believe they would be quite open to changing the agreement if the correct central contract system was in place.

aimee1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think he meant he was guaranteed games for Ospreys.

In 'Scenario X' on a central contract, and with the Regions breaking from the WRU, he could not play for the Ospreys.



On the Scrum V 'debate' the other week this was mentioned. The RRW have agreed that they are not to play any centrally contracted players, however it was discussed as being an extremely loose agreement, not worth worrying about. I believe they would be quite open to changing the agreement if the correct central contract system was in place.

Warbutons newpaper article says he will play for the blues. RRW statement last nite says no agreement in place and they dont see how central contracts can work without agreement and before the issues in wales are resolved. They (rrw and wru) really need to sit down and talk and stop communicating through the media. Its a bit boring listening to the same nonsense every few days.

Podge_irl

I find it difficult to believe that the Blues will ultimately refuse to allow Warburton to play for them (even if he is a shadow of the player in blue that he is in red), but they do really dislike the idea of central contracts so they may be willing to make that sacrifice to nip this new development in the bud.

It all seems a bit silly to me though and I don't understand the objection in general to some central contracts.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

I find it difficult to believe that the Blues will ultimately refuse to allow Warburton to play for them (even if he is a shadow of the player in blue that he is in red), but they do really dislike the idea of central contracts so they may be willing to make that sacrifice to nip this new development in the bud.

It all seems a bit silly to me though and I don't understand the objection in general to some central contracts.

The WRU were saying that any central contracts must be deducted from the funding for the players' relative Region. That's a ridiculously unrealistic proposal which basically meant the Union would be spending the Regions' budgets for them.

It was also originally entirely conditional on the Regions signing the WRUs agreement to extend the PA, which they refused to negotiate on. These were the terms offered originally in August 2013 for the central contracts, I don't see how anyone could expect the Regions to accept that offer.

And they say there's been no agreement on them since... but the WRU are still going around siging up their players while discussing the possibility of a central contract system with the regions. Last year the rumours were that the WRU had specifically told the Regions players not to sign with them because of the potential of them siging central contracts instead. It's ridiculous behaviour from them really. If the Regions are now competing financially with their own union then Welsh rugby is in big trouble.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The WRU were saying that any central contracts must be deducted from the funding for the players' relative Region. That's a ridiculously unrealistic proposal which basically meant the Union would be spending the Regions' budgets for them.

I did not know that. That completely negates the bloody point of them.

The WRU and RRW are as bad as each other (if anything the WRU are worse with their fanatical approach to paying off the MS debt while letting provincial rugby die).

molloyjh

Did the WRU not concede the point on where the money from for central contracts last month? Fairly sure I read that somewhere. Plus there's no mention of it coming from the Regions budget in the RRW press release which I'd imagine they'd be screaming over.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

Did the WRU not concede the point on where the money from for central contracts last month? Fairly sure I read that somewhere. Plus there's no mention of it coming from the Regions budget in the RRW press release which I'd imagine they'd be screaming over.

Yes they did. Lewis said as much on the Scrum V debate, that the money for the players would come from a separate pot than the regions funding.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Did the WRU not concede the point on where the money from for central contracts last month? Fairly sure I read that somewhere. Plus there's no mention of it coming from the Regions budget in the RRW press release which I'd imagine they'd be screaming over.

They reversed their position on central contracts, thats mentioned earlier in the thread.

They still have absolutely no agreement with the Regions, but they're speaking as if they do. They're negotiating and signing central contracts while trying to negotiate the feasibility of central contracts with the regions.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They reversed their position on central contracts, thats mentioned earlier in the thread.

They still have absolutely no agreement with the Regions, but they're speaking as if they do. They're negotiating and signing central contracts while trying to negotiate the feasibility of central contracts with the regions.

Which I'm sure we can all agree is a terrible way to do things.

I can't think of any parallels where you argued the opposite though. :pac:

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They reversed their position on central contracts, thats mentioned earlier in the thread.

They still have absolutely no agreement with the Regions, but they're speaking as if they do. They're negotiating and signing central contracts while trying to negotiate the feasibility of central contracts with the regions.

Oh listen I totally agree it's a ridiculous way to do business. But didn't the Regions refuse the idea of centrally paid central contracts as well? My understanding of this was that the WRU initially wanted central contracts to be paid for from the funding they give the Regions. A laughable notion that was duly laughed out of the negotiations. They then came back last month to say that they would pay for the central contracts from central funds and the Regions refused that as well. They seemed, at the time at least, to be very much against the idea of central contracts at all, and instead just wanted more money to do with as they saw fit.

DeDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

Which I'm sure we can all agree is a terrible way to do things.

I can't think of any parallels where you argued the opposite though. :pac:

No, no, no......that was COMPLETELY different..... FACT!

I'd be interested to see if anyone can substantiate the story about the central contract money being directly subtracted from the current amount given to the regions. I understand that the the initial discussions were along the lines of....ok tell us about these proposed central contracts. Will you pay them and guarantee the same amount we're currently getting. When the answer wasn't an unequivocal yes, then the regions were off to the press with the usual 'sky is falling in and it is all the fault of the big bad WRU' shtick.

The reality is that the WRU has handed over large chunks of money to the regions who have substantially pissed it away. It should also be noted of course that the regions have also received a large amount from donors (think I heard £40M mentioned?) since their formation (or was it since professionalism?). The cold hard truth is that the regions can't survive without the cash injections from the WRU (largely also true in England btw), so they're going to have to accept that that money will come with some conditions. I really find it baffling that they haven't been more pro-active on the issue of central contracts as it potentially offers them a really strong and stable business model

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/wales/10605734/Six-Nations-2014-I-am-sure-more-Wales-players-will-sign-central-contracts-it-is-a-winwin-situation.html

Warburton backs more players to follow him onto the central contract route

Interesting that WRU have learned a lesson from the North situation.

Someone is lying in this article, no idea who though.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wrus-late-bid-broker-deal-2514272

This comment is worth thinking over,

Is it more likely that he plays with the Blues next year, or that the Blues no longer exist. Out of the 4 possibilities which of these are most likely?

1) RRW and WRU step back from the brink, more money to the regions as they compete in Rabo and 5N HC. SW plays

2) RRW leaves the WRU, joins an unsanctioned league outside of the IRB and Union control - no referees and no insurance. SW does not play (ineligible for Wales if you play - just like League previously).

3) RRW leaves the WRU and goes to court to try and play in the AW and does not play any games next autumn/year. BT gives them enough money to keep going until the end of the court case to pay salaries etc. SW does not play.

4) RRW leaves the WRU and goes to court to try and play in the AW and does not play any games next autumn/year. Goes bankrupt. SW plays for a new region.

irishbucsfan

DeDoc wrote: »

I'd be interested to see if anyone can substantiate the story about the central contract money being directly subtracted from the current amount given to the regions.

Over the entire time of options being tabled, the WRU has resolutely refused to undertake any discussion, of any option, beyond the absolute conditions that the cost of any National Contract must be deducted from the Region’s existing income; and that the Regions must agree to sign the extension option to the previous Participation Agreement.

The Regions therefore cannot understand how, or why, the WRU have now completely reversed their stance in just weeks.

It is also important to make clear that the national contract announcement was made the day before the Regions were due to respond to the WRU’s recent proposal of a new Operating Agreement. The news arrived whilst the Regions were attempting to discuss and agree the fundamental principles on which any new agreement should be based.

The critically urgent priority remains the immediate confirmation of committed competition platforms and revenues for next season, to enable key commercial activity including fixture lists, season tickets and sponsor agreements to be delivered across the four Regional businesses.

http://www.regionalrugbywales.com/2014/01/29/welsh-regions-position-central-contracts/

Player contracts

Whilst chairing and leading the working group established by WRU alongside the WRU PWC review in 2012, the Regions tabled several proposals for a consolidated contract structure within Welsh professional rugby as part of wider structural change.

The WRU PWC report concluded that central contracts were not the answer to the funding deficiency within Welsh professional rugby and that greater collaboration was the only logical solution.

In August 2012 the WRU forwarded a brief paper proposing the establishment of central contracts funded by the reduction of the compensation payments committed to the Regions within the Participation agreement. This did not represent any form of solution.

In June 2013, immediately prior to the end of it’s financial year, the WRU announced a proposed “one off” payment of £1m for “the development, recruitment and retention of Welsh International players”.

Despite a great deal of work undertaken by the Regions, on request, to propose a structure that distributed this resource effectively for the future, the WRU ultimately focused on identifying 6 “marquee” players as the best use of resource.

However, the conditions applied to the distribution of the £1m included that the Regions sign to extend the Participation agreement on the current terms. As identified above, this was not possible.

The Regions remain open to any discussion on a more effective and efficient contractual structure for Welsh Professional players that benefits the whole of Welsh Professional rugby.

Letter to Welsh clubs on 16th January

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Which I'm sure we can all agree is a terrible way to do things.

I can't think of any parallels where you argued the opposite though. :pac:

Oh really? Where did I argue the opposite? WRU are negotiating an agreement with the Regions while going ahead with their proposal at the same time. That is not a parallel to what happened between ERC and PRL, if you think it is I think it may explain why you've been so confused. But it's completely off topic for this thread.

I've not been confused. Check your PMs.

Feel free to respond to it in the appropriate thread if you wish.

molloyjh

There's a breach in containment. It's lose, IT'S LOSE!