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Microsoft the power of the Cloud or pie in the sky

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    #32
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    TBH the company that has announced something cloud-related that I am genuinely excited about is Sony, with their PlayStation Now stuff.


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    #33
    CiDeRmAn
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,528 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    The power of the cloud is this generations blast processing or emotion engine.

    I was just about to post the same thing.
    It sounds like bull and its going to bite MS in the backside when there's no demonstrable difference in performance between an online and offline Xbox One.


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    #34
    Taylor365
    Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭Taylor365


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    No, its not. The cloud is a marketing term for shared resources which when done right can lead to lower costs.

    Is the cloud not virtual space managed by data centers?
    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    The issue with cloud computing is latency.

    What i had just said:
    It could handle sending the smallest of data that doesn't require real-time response
    Small data packets can be instant but anything of substantial size would take time.
    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    The Ideal setup of a datacenter is it running at 80% utilization 24/7. The reality is that most applications of cloud use require a level of back and forth exchange, that creates issues when there is a significant amount of time for those exchanges to take place. So the datacenters get used heavily maybe 8/5. If you can get other services to use this out of hours, you can push that up to 14/5 and start to make more money and reduce costs. I'm assuming thats what they are trying to do now.
    So more money for them, more latency for xbox owners?


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    #35
    beercr8te
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭beercr8te


    The power of the cloud is just Microsoft's PR BS, it won't make a single difference in narrowing the large power difference between the xbone and ps4.


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    #36
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    Is the cloud not virtual space managed by data centers?

    Cloud could be any number of IT services which are hosted in the most logical location for it, a datacenter. In networking, the symbol of a cloud is used to signify the Internet. This is because you know its there and how to get to it, but you have no control over it. Marketing people jumped on the symbol for anything related to shared services. And they can be quite distinct and varied.
    Taylor365 wrote: »
    What i had just said:
    Small data packets can be instant but anything of substantial size would take time.

    That's nothing to do with packet size and everything to do with bandwidth. Which Europe in Particular has in quite good quantity's. And games use f all bandwidth.

    Taylor365 wrote: »
    So more money for them, more latency for xbox owners?

    More money for them, better services for you, less latency for you since Microsofts north Europe Azure datacenter is located in Dublin.


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    #37
    Chairman Meow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭Chairman Meow


    Anyone who knows anything about 'teh cloud' for real, knows that this is bull**** of the highest order.


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    #38
    Taylor365
    Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭Taylor365


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    More money for them, better services for you, less latency for you since Microsofts north Europe Azure datacenter is located in Dublin.
    How can it be less latency than running the processes local?


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    #39
    Chairman Meow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭Chairman Meow


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    How can it be less latency than running the processes local?

    Exactly. This is what people fail to understand, even if the datacenter was next door to you, it would still generate more latency than doing it on the actual machine. No matter how good your connection is, if its going out to the internet, and back to your machine, it will always be slower than processing it locally. Claiming that they can offload CPU/GPU workload to the cloud is ****ing ridiculous


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    #40
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    How can it be less latency than running the processes local?

    Considering the vast majority of games are multiplayer focused, I'm assuming that this is what they are really talking about.

    You seem to be assuming that something that could be done local, would be done by a server somewhere. Thats not going to happen. The reason thats not going to happen, is that it add costs to Microsoft and removes cost from you, as well as making the service worse. Why would they do that? Its a huge investment in API's and servers for something that don't need to do.

    I think your all taking this wrong. Microsoft has datacenters doing nothing during the evenings, from a business point of view it would cost them little to transition away from local hosting of multiplayer games to server hosting of games. You know, that thing that makes them better to play.


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    #41
    Wossack
    Registered Users Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭Wossack


    Chairman Meow wrote: »
    Exactly. This is what people fail to understand, even if the datacenter was next door to you, it would still generate more latency than doing it on the actual machine. No matter how good your connection is, if its going out to the internet, and back to your machine, it will always be slower than processing it locally. Claiming that they can offload CPU/GPU workload to the cloud is ****ing ridiculous


    There is an aspect of truth to it though, but whether or not MS can actually deliver on it is another matter entirely..

    For an example of it (taken to a bit of an extreme), theres a group of guys who play milsims called ShackTac, and on their huge arma2 games they've offloaded the AI processing (extremely CPU bound) from their dedicated server to another headless client:

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/09/realism-theater-arma-2-cinder-city/


    People have been snubbed by the SimCity fiasco, so rightfully suspect about it (the term 'cloud' is far too ambiguous anyway), but I do think there is a potential for it in some scenarios


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    #42
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,457 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It will be used to add complexity to scenes, it won't be able to change a 60fps 720p segment to 1080p, that needs the local hardware, but within those resolutions/framerates, a lot of other complex items can happen.

    It would only make a difference to framerates if it was the AI process that was sucking up all the CPU/GPU power for a scene due to having to calculate a small dataset in real time, rather than let the cloud process all possible outcomes before hand.


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    #43
    jenjenten
    Closed Accounts Posts: 944 ✭✭✭jenjenten


    Lets face it....The Cloud is the only marketing tool they have left to sell the Xbox One.....i belive we'll see a kinectless SKU for Xmas 2014.


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    #44
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    Plus, anything MS can do on Der Clowd, Sony can copy with a few months of work.


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