UPC to block/report Torrents

Evd-Burner

Hi All,

I am just off the phone with Sky. Was asking them about when they will roll out their broadband which is backed by Eircom. They said it will be a few months before they are able to provide the service. Anyway while talking to the girl (she was nice and also torrented legally :P) she told me that she was just out of a meeting where they were informed that UPC along with some other ISP's are going to block/report users who are using torrents, whether it is legal or illegal content she did not say.

I just wanted to find out if there was any truth in what she said. She also explained Sky had no plans of yet to do anything about torrents but that in the near future they probably would.

Regards,
Evd.

lanomist

upc seem to have blocked torrents, have been trying for the last two days to get either kickass or the pirates bay but only get a upc page. Sometimes a torrents home page comes up but when you click download on what you want to download it reverts back to the upc page. Pain in the ass to say the least, going to see what other internet providers are available and will have no hesitation in giving upc the boot.

ArthurG

Evd-Burner wrote: »

... she told me that she was just out of a meeting where they were informed that UPC along with some other ISP's are going to block/report users who are using torrents, whether it is legal or illegal content she did not say........

Company A shares vague, scary stories about competitor B.

Move on, nothing to see here......

Vicxas

ArthurG wrote: »

Company A shares vague, scary stories about competitor B.

Move on, nothing to see here......

Agree. It's a sales/scare tactic.

'Oh I hear company A will be doing this now, come over to us in company B. We're much nicer'

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

weiland79

It hasn't blocked kick ass. Only Pb as far as I know as that was all that was specified by that Sherlock dope.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

ArthurG

Phoenix wrote: »

Um UPC already has blocked piratebay and kickass etc!

On foot of a court order. Sky redistribute an eircom service, who I also think have blocked Pb.

Are Sky saying this doesnt apply to them?.

AntiRip

Blocking the torrent protocol or the torrent websites?

Don't think any country has blocked the torrent protocol even the states. ISPs wouldn't want to do that anyway giving them a disadvantage. The actually protocol isn't illegal anyway.


Yeah one by one they will block torrent sites and the UK seems to be good mad with censorship at the moment with filters that not only block torrent sites but legitimate sites also.

So forget what she said, silly scare tactic or Chinese whispers from her.

ArthurG

AntiRip wrote: »

Blocking the torrent protocol or the torrent websites?

Don't think any country has blocked the torrent protocol even the states. ISPs wouldn't want to do that anyway giving them a disadvantage. The actually protocol isn't illegal anyway.


Yeah one by one they will block torrent sites and the UK seems to be good mad with censorship at the moment with filters that not only block torrent sites but legitimate sites also.

So forget what she said, silly scare tactic or Chinese whispers from her.

There's always an alternative

kippy

Slowly but surely the music/movie industry are getting court orders issued to the ISP's to block access to certain sites.
Some of the ISP's take more persuasion than others to do this however at this point TPB and Kickass are blocked on UPC and indeed most of the other Irish ISP's and if not blocked yet will be blocked shortly.
These orders will be issued to all ISP's so whatever effects UPC etc will effect others in time if they havent already.
UPC have no interest in monitoring and reporting users, they just do what the court tells them.

Sky are going to have the same issues down the line if not already.

When you see the IT illeterate person torrenting you know its days are numbered. (in that it will take more knowledge to do it in future)

White Heart Loon

kippy wrote: »

Slowly but surely the music/movie industry are getting court orders issued to the ISP's to block access to certain sites.

It's ridiculous, you can easily Google how to make a bomb, the info is all out there and easily available. Where is the effort to block these sites?

kippy

White Heart Loon wrote: »

It's ridiculous, you can easily Google how to make a bomb, the info is all out there and easily available. Where is the effort to block these sites?

€€€€€ and $$$$$$$ are the main reason.......
There are literally millions of sites where one can get the info on bombmaking, not so many that are used for torrents.

I don't agree with the logic but thems the rules.......

vibe666

And there are already dozens of proxies for TPB and kick ass
torrents and there are hundreds of alternative torrent sites.

KAT got really popular when TPB first got blocked and another site will get popular with people who aren't aware of the alternative proxies now that KAT is getting blocked.

Eventually they will either give up or find a way to block torrenting altogether, at which point someone will find a more secure way of distributing content, which is how torrenting came about in the first place replacing the last lot of popular p2p distribution networks when they got shut down.

kippy

vibe666 wrote: »

And there are already dozens of proxies for TPB and kick ass
torrents and there are hundreds of alternative torrent sites.

KAT got really popular when TPB first got blocked and another site will get popular with people who aren't aware of the alternative proxies now that KAT is getting blocked.

Eventually they will either give up or find a way to block torrenting altogether, at which point someone will find a more secure way of distributing content, which is how torrenting came about in the first place replacing the last lot of popular p2p distribution networks when they got shut down.

As Ive been saying for the past few years things are a lot different now. The laws are in place to force isps comply with orders from the rights holders....ultimately that means sharing illegal content will get more difficult and as a result less mainstream.

beardybrewer

That will only happen when legal services (Netflix is a start but has a ways to go) can offer the content on torrents within a more reasonable amount of time and for an affordable subscription rate. This will replace what most people pay for UPC/Sky today.

Do we know for sure they are reporting all torrent traffic??

kippy

newkie wrote: »

That will only happen when legal services (Netflix is a start but has a ways to go) can offer the content on torrents within a more reasonable amount of time and for an affordable subscription rate. This will replace what most people pay for UPC/Sky today.

Do we know for sure they are reporting all torrent traffic??

The isps arent. Agents on behalf of content rights holders advise rights holders to go after certain sites based on various data.
As for the legit argument....there are tonnes of legal sites out there....a lot free.....
It will reduce over time as it gets more difficult for standard users to do.

vibe666

kippy wrote: »

...ultimately that means sharing illegal content will get more difficult and as a result less mainstream.

"mainstream" being the operative word. Nobody bothered with torrents in the beginning because unless you were fairly technical it was too complicated to get it working properly, so less people were using it.

I've been working in IT and using the internet (and BBS's before that) since before DSL was available in the UK, first with dial-up, then isdn, then eventually DSL and cable and now FTTH and I've used and seen every file sharing method come and go in that time and its always the same story.

Somebody invents a way for people to share content, gradually it gets popular and eventually it's so popular that the rights holders and/or authorities finally see it as a significant enough threat and find a way to shut it down either directly or indirectly.

Sooner or later torrenting will have had it's day and it will fall out of mainstream use and people will either give up and use Netflix etc. or the more technical people determined not to pay for content (other than their isp costs) will move on to whatever comes next until that becomes more popular and user friendly and then that will hit the mainstream and the cycle will continue round again.

kippy

vibe666 wrote: »

"mainstream" being the operative word. Nobody bothered with torrents in the beginning because unless you were fairly technical it was too complicated to get it working properly, so less people were using it.

I've been working in IT and using the internet (and BBS's before that) since before DSL was available in the UK, first with dial-up, then isdn, then eventually DSL and cable and now FTTH and I've used and seen every file sharing method come and go in that time and its always the same story.

Somebody invents a way for people to share content, gradually it gets popular and eventually it's so popular that the rights holders and/or authorities finally see it as a significant enough threat and find a way to shut it down either directly or indirectly.

Sooner or later torrenting will have had it's day and it will fall out of mainstream use and people will either give up and use Netflix etc. or the more technical people determined not to pay for content (other than their isp costs) will move on to whatever comes next until that becomes more popular and user friendly and then that will hit the mainstream and the cycle will continue round again.

Id agree with the majority of that howver one key difference now is the legal standpoint and the tools available to the rights holders.

vibe666

kippy wrote: »

Id agree with the majority of that howver one key difference now is the legal standpoint and the tools available to the rights holders.

And none of that changes the simple fact that there will ALWAYS be people who will go out of their way to share content for free, regardless of the law or how well it is enforced and people with the technical ability facilitate that desire in a way that avoids detection and/or circumvents copy protection.

It's simply supply and demand and no law is going to prevent people from supplying anything that someone else wants, any more than the well established and pretty strict laws around the world against supplying and using drugs prevents people who want to from supplying and using them.

There are already people working right now to make it impossible (using current technology) to stop the authorities from detecting people downloading torrents or even see what torrent sites they are visiting (or shut those sites down) and make it completely anonymous and secure.

And again, eventually the rights holders and/or authorities will catch up and figure out a way to curtail it and someone else will find a way around that etc etc, ad infinitum.

kippy

vibe666 wrote: »

And none of that changes the simple fact that there will ALWAYS be people who will go out of their way to share content for free, regardless of the law or how well it is enforced and people with the technical ability facilitate that desire in a way that avoids detection and/or circumvents copy protection.

It's simply supply and demand and no law is going to prevent people from supplying anything that someone else wants, any more than the well established and pretty strict laws around the world against supplying and using drugs prevents people who want to from supplying and using them.

There are already people working right now to make it impossible (using current technology) to stop the authorities from detecting people downloading torrents or even see what torrent sites they are visiting (or shut those sites down) and make it completely anonymous and secure.

And again, eventually the rights holders and/or authorities will catch up and figure out a way to curtail it and someone else will find a way around that etc etc, ad infinitum.

Not ad infinitum any more. The rights holders have the squeeze on isps as the law currently stands....
It will be much more difficult for methods of shareing spread as fas as napster and torrenting.
Think of your isp slowly turning into something akin to a corporate network. Filtered....heavily monitored....and the repurcussions for misusing it hefty. Think of all isps being forced into this......
That will ultimately be tge result of very recent changes in leglislation .

kippy

Id add....i am only speculating. Ive been round a while and seen many different techs etc however these new powers are a game change for those that go about tgeir business legally as well as illegally ...unfortunately.....
Only time will tell.

vibe666

Sorry, but that simply isn't the case. No ISP, law our rights holder is going to prevent me from downloading what I want online, ever.

I may have to change how I do it from time to time, but nothing will ever stop me doing it entirely any more than it ever has.

It might stop more technical users for a while, but sooner or later someone always finds a way around any restrictions whether they be physical or legal and nothing will ever change that as long as there are people who want access to stuff without paying for it any more than any other illegal endeavor.

Like I said, the next big (secure) thing is already in the works and will see light of day pretty soon, and having a pretty good idea how going to work, I tell you now it will a good while before the law and content providers figure out how catch up.

kippy

vibe666 wrote: »

Sorry, but that simply isn't the case. No ISP, law our rights holder is going to prevent me from downloading what I want online, ever.

I may have to change how I do it from time to time, but nothing will ever stop me doing it entirely any more than it ever has.

It might stop more technical users for a while, but sooner or later someone always finds a way around any restrictions whether they be physical or legal and nothing will ever change that as long as there are people who want access to stuff without paying for it any more than any other illegal endeavor.

Like I said, the next big (secure) thing is already in the works and will see light of day pretty soon, and having a pretty good idea how going to work, I tell you now it will a good while before the law and content providers figure out how catch up.

U might have no problems. Joe whos just figured out how to download a torrent will.
Theres no such thing as secure on the internet. Somebody somewhere has a key if they wanted to use it.

vibe666

Pretty soon there will be, just like regular torrenting used to be, as far as rights holders and the law were concerned.

Before long, neither your ISP or anyone else will be able to see what you are torrenting, or even the site you get it from and it will be as secure as it gets for the people using it, simply because it's being designed to be.

Someone, will of course eventually figure out how to stop or at least make it too inconvenient to be practical and, as it always does everything will move on to the next big thing and 10 years from now it will be exactly the same.

It's a simple game of cat and mouse, the same as everything else illegal and that will NEVER change regardless of what the law says, no more than any other law will stop anyone determined enough to get what they want and to share it with others.

kippy

vibe666 wrote: »

Pretty soon there will be, just like regular torrenting used to be, as far as rights holders and the law were concerned.

Before long, neither your ISP or anyone else will be able to see what you are torrenting, or even the site you get it from and it will be as secure as it gets for the people using it, simply because it's being designed to be.

Someone, will of course eventually figure out how to stop or at least make it too inconvenient to be practical and, as it always does everything will move on to the next big thing and 10 years from now it will be exactly the same.

It's a simple game of cat and mouse, the same as everything else illegal and that will NEVER change regardless of what the law says, no more than any other law will stop anyone determined enough to get what they want and to share it with others.

They way things are going, as I have said, your ISP will be no different from your "corporate" network - with filtering, access policies and restrictions based on legal frameworks defined by those attempting to stop such practices......
Point I am making is, it will be much more difficult to share material because the conduit for that sharing is under every more pressure to do something about it, as opposed to the past decade when they simply weren't.

vibe666

And my corporate network doesn't (or any corporate network) stop me from doing what I want to do online any more than my ISP can/does.

MY point is that pretty soon, neither your ISP nor anyone else will be able to see either what torrent sites you are visiting, OR stop you visiting them, OR shut those sites down directly, OR see what torrents you are downloading, OR stop you downloading them without blocking your connection entirely, which given the first 4 points above isn't going to happen.

This is something that is already being put together and will be in public beta pretty soon and shouldn't be any more difficult to use than your average torrent client.

Yes, eventually someone in authority will figure out how to throw a spanner in the works somehow, but it will take several years for the law, the content providers and ISP's to figure out how and then the cycle will start again.

kippy

vibe666 wrote: »

And my corporate network doesn't (or any corporate network) stop me from doing what I want to do online any more than my ISP can/does.

MY point is that pretty soon, neither your ISP nor anyone else will be able to see either what torrent sites you are visiting, OR stop you visiting them, OR shut those sites down directly, OR see what torrents you are downloading, OR stop you downloading them without blocking your connection entirely, which given the first 4 points above isn't going to happen.

This is something that is already being put together and will be in public beta pretty soon and shouldn't be any more difficult to use than your average torrent client.

Yes, eventually someone in authority will figure out how to throw a spanner in the works somehow, but it will take several years for the law, the content providers and ISP's to figure out how and then the cycle will start again.

Your corporate network lets you access porn,gambling and proxy sites......as well as the myriad of other sites that are also blocked.......
I think you are underestimating the swing the law has taken.......

vibe666

kippy wrote: »

Your corporate network lets you access porn,gambling and proxy sites......as well as the myriad of other sites that are also blocked.......
I think you are underestimating the swing the law has taken.......

No, my corporate network does have all the usual restrictions in place that most corporate networks have, what I'm saying is that just like an ISP's restrictions it won't stop me doing what i want to do online.

I've worked for 3 of the top 5 IT services companies in the world and none of them have ever been able to stop me from doing what i want to do online.

Valaquenta

As long as it doesn't become overly complicated to continue downloading! Only got into it in the last 12 months so most likely it'll be people of my ineptitude who are hit the most haha

ED E

Vibe is right, keep small and keep under the radar.

Itll be interesting to see where it goes. Several Usenet indexers were hit by the feds last year so it cant regress to that really.

the_syco

kippy wrote: »

There are literally millions of sites where one can get the info on bombmaking, not so many that are used for torrents.

Like torrents, where some torrents are watched, some ingredients of bombs are watched, and should you buy it, you'll get questioned on it's purpose.

vibe666 wrote: »

Sooner or later torrenting will have had it's day and it will fall out of mainstream use and people will either give up and use Netflix etc. or the more technical people determined not to pay for content (other than their isp costs) will move on to whatever comes next until that becomes more popular and user friendly and then that will hit the mainstream and the cycle will continue round again.

Agreed. There is a sharing tool that has been around since before torrents where people share their folders, but as it's fairly technical, I don't see many people using it.

vibe666 wrote: »

Like I said, the next big (secure) thing is already in the works and will see light of day pretty soon, and having a pretty good idea how going to work, I tell you now it will a good while before the law and content providers figure out how catch up.

Hope your typical Joe Soap can't use it.

vibe666 wrote: »

This is something that is already being put together and will be in public beta pretty soon and shouldn't be any more difficult to use than your average torrent client.

Balls.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

patnor1011

Interesting article:

http://rt.com/op-edge/dutch-court-pirate-bay-457/

kippy

patnor1011 wrote: »

Interesting article:

http://rt.com/op-edge/dutch-court-pirate-bay-457/

I wonder how artists make money from sites like pirate bay....

Morf

Most artists don't make money from music deals. Some also pay a cut of touring profits.

White Heart Loon

kippy wrote: »

I wonder how artists make money from sites like pirate bay....

Radiohead released their album In Rainbows on their website and let fans pay what they felt it was worth, as little as a cent. They released a statement after saying they made more money on that album, than on all other albums put together. Bands no longer need record labels or million euro recording studios to release their music, a studio quality album can be produced in a bedroom or a garage and sold on their website. This and the likes of Netflix also proves that people are willing to pay as long as they feel they are not being ripped off.

kippy

Those last two replies have nothing to do with the answer to my question.....how do artists make money from sites like pirate bay? Which was a comment in the earlier article linked to.

Amirani

kippy wrote: »

Those last two replies have nothing to do with the answer to my question.....how do artists make money from sites like pirate bay? Which was a comment in the earlier article linked to.

By attracting fans who will then pay for gig tickets and merchandise.

kippy

NiallSparky wrote: »

By attracting fans who will then pay for gig tickets and merchandise.

Really?
So these sites have taken over from radio then....

Evd-Burner

A lot of people are willing to pay. I have a Netflix account and a Google Play Music account. I use them both a hell of a lot.

Since getting my Google Play Music account I haven't obtained music from sources that may be considered illegal.

However I find that Netflix is seriously lacking in content compared to streaming music services. There have been multiple times where I would be 4 seasons into a series and find that the fifth and final season cannot be watched in Ireland. This does my absolute head in, I have to then go to the trouble of obtaining the content by some other means, and there is no way in hell I would pay €20+ for a box-set season of anything unless it's The Walking Dead . Even then I would have to go to the trouble of putting it onto my phone to watch on the bus.

I actually wouldn't mind if Netflix also had a premium section for A - AAA titles and new releases. Say something like 10c to unlock an episode and €1 to unlock a film. Allowing the user to then watch that whenever they liked. This would give Netflix a huge boost to get the content that people actual want and are willing to pay a reasonable amount for its entertaining value.

White Heart Loon

kippy wrote: »

Those last two replies have nothing to do with the answer to my question.....how do artists make money from sites like pirate bay? Which was a comment in the earlier article linked to.

ThePirateBay has it's own legit service (which is also incidentally being blocked) Promo Bay. This is where bands, artists, authors, film makers and game developers can promote themselves to millions of potential customers by offering a free song/book/movie/game. ThePirateBay can shift some serious amounts of traffic.

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2012/11/pirate-bay-launches-the-promo-bay-to-promote-artists-to-the-masses-.html

Mr. G

White Heart Loon wrote: »

ThePirateBay has it's own legit service (which is also incidentally being blocked) Promo Bay. This is where bands, artists, authors, film makers and game developers can promote themselves to millions of potential customers by offering a free song/book/movie/game.

What a coincidence...

The Government should think twice before implementing laws, such as what that gob****e Sherlock did. I don't use torrents illegally, I do occasionally use it to legally download Linux distributions etc.

In comparison to other countries, Ireland has an open, uncensored internet. If they go blocking x,y and z how do foreign firms view it? They see it as a place where things are censored. Where innovation is not encouraged. I am all for an open internet, not for what would be experienced in countries like China. Their great firewall has hurt their economy badly. I remember saying this before here but Google pulled out of China and went to Hong Kong. Fine, they are an extreme example but still a point.

The Government have more important things to be doing than block websites (which lets face it will be easily unblocked).

By blocking websites, you are actually increasing curiosity among the population, which would increase the number of people downloading illegal torrents.

Whether what the Op heard is true or not I don't know, but there is most certainly a moral and justified argument towards such a court order. If I was the Government or the courts, I would just leave it. There really is no point.

adox

Evd-Burner wrote: »

Hi All,

I am just off the phone with Sky. Was asking them about when they will roll out their broadband which is backed by Eircom. They said it will be a few months before they are able to provide the service. Anyway while talking to the girl (she was nice and also torrented legally :P) she told me that she was just out of a meeting where they were informed that UPC along with some other ISP's are going to block/report users who are using torrents, whether it is legal or illegal content she did not say.

I just wanted to find out if there was any truth in what she said. She also explained Sky had no plans of yet to do anything about torrents but that in the near future they probably would.

Regards,
Evd.

Sky already block The Pirate Bay.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

kippy

Mr. G wrote: »

What a coincidence...

The Government should think twice before implementing laws, such as what that gob****e Sherlock did. I don't use torrents illegally, I do occasionally use it to legally download Linux distributions etc.

In comparison to other countries, Ireland has an open, uncensored internet. If they go blocking x,y and z how do foreign firms view it? They see it as a place where things are censored. Where innovation is not encouraged. I am all for an open internet, not for what would be experienced in countries like China. Their great firewall has hurt their economy badly. I remember saying this before here but Google pulled out of China and went to Hong Kong. Fine, they are an extreme example but still a point.

The Government have more important things to be doing than block websites (which lets face it will be easily unblocked).

By blocking websites, you are actually increasing curiosity among the population, which would increase the number of people downloading illegal torrents.

Whether what the Op heard is true or not I don't know, but there is most certainly a moral and justified argument towards such a court order. If I was the Government or the courts, I would just leave it. There really is no point.

The bit in bold - I dont agree.
Blocking sites like they are doing now ensures that the "casual" non techie who has gotten in on this in the past few years cannot download torrents.
As for the argument that tech companies prefer free and open internet (which is all well and good in theory but if you class the widespread availability (to the masses) of copyrighted material as "open internet" then most tech companies would rather see it closed. Why? Because companies that manufacture software and operating systems tend to see revenues effected by the proliferation of their software on these networks.


Not in relation to your post but there is no way artists make any money from sites such as the pirate bay as sites that are sister sites to the pirate bay and work on a totally different model to the pirate bay are NOT sites like the pirate bay.
It's a completely facetious argument - and one completely devoid of evidence or fact.

I am still of the opinion that ultimately mainstream illegal downloading of copyrighted content is on the way out due to a combination of two things (no matter what is being said here).
1. The Law - the law has turned massively in favour of the rights holders - that much is obvious. Only the law being overturned will change that and perhaps this dutch thing might be a challenge to it.
2. The increasing availability of free and paid on demand services, offering consistent quality.

jimboblep

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

anybody else having problems accessing Extratorrent?

Yep got it in the end
Not getting the blocked message think it was something technical on theyre end

Mr. G

kippy wrote: »

The bit in bold - I dont agree.
Blocking sites like they are doing now ensures that the "casual" non techie who has gotten in on this in the past few years cannot download torrents.
As for the argument that tech companies prefer free and open internet (which is all well and good in theory but if you class the widespread availability (to the masses) of copyrighted material as "open internet" then most tech companies would rather see it closed. Why? Because companies that manufacture software and operating systems tend to see revenues effected by the proliferation of their software on these networks.


Not in relation to your post but there is no way artists make any money from sites such as the pirate bay as sites that are sister sites to the pirate bay and work on a totally different model to the pirate bay are NOT sites like the pirate bay.
It's a completely facetious argument - and one completely devoid of evidence or fact.

I am still of the opinion that ultimately mainstream illegal downloading of copyrighted content is on the way out due to a combination of two things (no matter what is being said here).
1. The Law - the law has turned massively in favour of the rights holders - that much is obvious. Only the law being overturned will change that and perhaps this dutch thing might be a challenge to it.
2. The increasing availability of free and paid on demand services, offering consistent quality.

My view on it is any "casual user" who knows how to download using torrents will well be able to use Google.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but if they are going to block websites, where do you draw the line? There's a huge difference between blocking a website for political and for copyright purposes. The former is where I would be concerned. This is why I feel any blocking of websites is a bad thing. Blocking of child pornography is another story altogether and I would be in favour of it being blocked. It is such a debatable topic, and where one draws the line is the question.

hufpc8w3adnk65

KATorrents is down for me on UPC. Anyone PM alternitatives?

ben101

MrMac84 wrote: »

KATorrents is down for me on UPC. Anyone PM alternitatives?

Have sent you a pm.

runawaybishop

kippy wrote: »

The bit in bold - I dont agree.
Blocking sites like they are doing now ensures that the "casual" non techie who has gotten in on this in the past few years cannot download torrents.

XS4ALL, a Dutch ISP, reported an increase in torrent traffic after they blocked the pirate bay due to increased exposure in the media. In the UK after the ban was announced tpb experienced a surge of 12 million views, which they took advantage of by running campaigns educating users on how to circumvent the block.