dentist €80

blingrhino

Recently had a check up and clean in a dentist in drogheda.
no stamps and was charged €80.
i thought it was a bit excessive ??

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

No, I paid that 2 years ago.

Nesta99

Medical card holders have to pay €25 so no cheap or free dental care no matter who or what your circumstances are. I have a Polish dentist obviously licenced to practice in Ireland, uses Irish suppliers for veneers, crowns etc - charges in and around €1800 for needed crown work as a set of front upper teeth - thats about 2k cheaper than an Irish dentist without comprimising care. 80 quid for someone to look in yer gob and then give the pearlys a polish is too much!

cargo

Nesta99 wrote: »

Medical card holders have to pay €25 so no cheap or free dental care no matter who or what your circumstances are. I have a Polish dentist obviously licenced to practice in Ireland, uses Irish suppliers for veneers, crowns etc - charges in and around €1800 for needed crown work as a set of front upper teeth - thats about 2k cheaper than an Irish dentist without comprimising care. 80 quid for someone to look in yer gob and then give the pearlys a polish is too much!

Where does that dentist work from?

Nesta99

Dublin.

davo10

Nesta99, How many crowns/veneers and how do you know he used an irish ceramic laboratory and not a polish one?

bewhiched

Jesus thats expensive treatment

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I got 2 front teeth crowned 3 years ago for €2050 by a local Irish dentist. You'll get cheaper in Newry or elsewhere up north.

davo10

Aya Square Fast-food wrote: »

I got 2 front teeth crowned 3 years ago for €2050 by a local Irish dentist. You'll get cheaper in Newry or elsewhere up north.

This is well above average price for two crowns in the south, typically it would be 12-1500 for top quality ceramics.

Aya Square Fast-food did this price include cast post and cores to retain the crowns ?

Nesta, €1800 is very pricey a couple of crowns, I think the Polish guy charged you more than most irish dentists would.

Nesta99

davo10 wrote: »

This is well above average price for two crowns in the south, typically it would be 12-1500 for top quality ceramics.

Srameen did this price include cast post and cores to retain the crowns ?

Nesta, €1800 is very pricey a couple of crowns, I think the Polish guy charged you more than most irish dentists would.

Where did I mention a couple of crowns? I said a set, I have more than 2 upper teeth. He gate details of the dental technician he used and it was an Irish lab and name so i presume Irish materials. I have since seen prices quoted for crowns at Irish dentists that were falling - probably due to the economic issues and also due to competition. I'm very happy with the service provided and the end product!

Was referred to a Northern clinic in the past for dental surgery and I didnt have a good experience and that was before the needed surgery too.

M.A.G

I'm all about supporting locals first,but after visiting my dentist last year and finding out i needed root canal treatment and it was gonna cost 850 euro i soon changed my mind and looked up north.Exact same job in Newry cost me 280 euro with a complete check up and polish.My last visit to this dentist in Newry cost me 60 euro with a filling and a visit to hygienist.God knows what that would cost me here.

5.11 Tactical

I recently got a clean,checkup and my teeth xrayed for €50, €80 is excessive.


In Dundalk

georgieporgy

I checked and cleaned my own teeth last week for free. They looked great.
I then had a go at cutting my own hair, but the result was only so so. Still, it's money saved and not in the pocket of some rip off barber.:pac:

blingrhino

Well it was really only a clean for €80.
The check up consisted of a 30 second look around my gob -
I kid you not !

davo10

blingrhino wrote: »

Well it was really only a clean for €80.
The check up consisted of a 30 second look around my gob -
I kid you not !

Did dentist have his/her eyes closed during the cleaning?

wilson10

Don't get ripped off, on the front of the D.I. this week Balbriggan Dental Clinic have an ad, same service including an Xray, 25 Euro.

Nesta99

davo10 wrote: »

Did dentist have his/her eyes closed during the cleaning?

Doubt it! Too busy checking bank balance online with a smug grin.

davo10

wilson10 wrote: »

Don't get ripped off, on the front of the D.I. this week Balbriggan Dental Clinic have an ad, same service including an Xray, 25 Euro.

According to their website a check up is €20, a scale and polish €50, total €70. By any chance could that €25 be a short term special offer?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

davo10 wrote: »

According to their website a check up is €20, a scale and polish €50, total €70. By any chance could that €25 be a short term special offer?

Still a very good offer nonetheless.

davo10

Nesta99 wrote: »

Doubt it! Too busy checking bank balance online with a smug grin.

Of course he/she was, sure that is what dentists do all the time between patients, kinda like the way all employed and those in receipt of benefits check their bank accounts with a smug grin, to see how much more they have compared to their counterparts in the North.

davo10

Aya Square Fast-food wrote: »

Still a very good offer nonetheless.

Can't be passed up to be honest, these offers tend to be "loss leaders" for the Clinic, they might notice cavities etc during the visit.

Nesta99

davo10 wrote: »

Of course he/she was, sure that is what dentists do all the time between patients, kinda like the way all employed and those in receipt of benefits check their bank accounts with a smug grin, to see how much more they have compared to their counterparts in the North.

Strange, I as an employed person have absolutely no interest in the North or checking out how better off i am than they are! As a significant number of Dentists around Dundalk refer patients to Northern clinics for root canal work and wisdom tooth extractions etc they must be trying to spread their considerable wealth gained by ripping off joe republic with their Northern kin, considering the poor Northern folk cant afford to pay extortion rates and all as they have so much less than we do:rolleyes:

davo10

Nesta99 wrote: »

Strange, I as an employed person have absolutely no interest in the North or checking out how better off i am than they are! As a significant number of Dentists around Dundalk refer patients to Northern clinics for root canal work and wisdom tooth extractions etc they must be trying to spread their considerable wealth gained by ripping off joe republic with their Northern kin, considering the poor Northern folk cant afford to pay extortion rates and all as they have so much less than we do:rolleyes:

What? Difficult to understand this post but I'll give it a go.

You are not interested in comparing your wage with your counterpart in the North but you are happy to compare someone else's?. A bit hypocritical don't you think?

If you are paid more for doing your job that your northern brethren, do you accept that you are overpaid and ripping off your employer? Would you be willing to accept a reduction in your wages? If not, how then can you criticize others for being paid more than their counterparts?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

davo10 wrote: »

Can't be passed up to be honest, these offers tend to be "loss leaders" for the Clinic, they might notice cavities etc during the visit.

Speaks another dentist jealous at the deals others can offer.:rolleyes:

davo10

Aya Square Fast-food wrote: »

Speaks another dentist jealous at the deals others can offer.:rolleyes:

Speaks a dentist who doesn't have to offer these types of deals.

Nesta99

davo10 wrote: »

What? Difficult to understand this post but I'll give it a go.

You are not interested in comparing your wage with your counterpart in the North but you are happy to compare someone else's?. A bit hypocritical don't you think?

If you are paid more for doing your job that your northern brethren, do you accept that you are overpaid and ripping off your employer? Would you be willing to accept a reduction in your wages? If not, how then can you criticize others for being paid more than their counterparts?

Pretty basic English so i'm sure you didnt have too much difficulty interpreting my post - I am happy though to break it down in to a simpler form of English if you need me to, just ask!

I dont know what a person in Northern Ireland doing a similar job earns and as i've already said I am not interested. You obviously are as you brought it up. I mentioned on the previous page that I had had a poor experience with a Northern Irish clinic and made no mention of cost diffrentiation.
You have thrown in Northern Ireland as a red herring because the comparison I did make was that of a dentist in Dublin, albeit not an Irish national, who with similar overheads to other dental clinics in the Republic of Ireland can and does charge significantly less to patients.

This, in my opinion, has lead to other Dental practices to reduce prices to remain competative and long may this continue and spread throughout the nation.

Do you think that €80 is value for money for somone to do a dental check up and clean, a ten minute procedure. Fit 4 of these in in an hour and you are talking about earnings of €320 and hour - pure greed!

I really hope you read you patient files more carefully than you have read my posts in this thread as you have made a few inaccurate presumptions here.

For the record I also think is is scandalous that GP's can charge €50-80 for what might be a brief consult and then also charge extra on top for taking bloods for example. If someone has a chronic disease, like asthma or diabetes, that requires a monthly GP visit - added to prescription charges, that is close to €300 per month. If somone on a low income and not entitled to a medical card this is a huge drain. Once again extortion and greed created by the illusion of affluence during the septic tiger era.

Note I am not talking about myself here.

davo10

Nesta99 wrote: »

Pretty basic English....

Do you think that €80 is value for money for somone to do a dental check up and clean, a ten minute procedure. Fit 4 of these in in an hour and you are talking about earnings of €320 and hour - pure greed!
.

Not greed, pretty basic economics. All clinics are small businesses, if someone is paid what the market will bare, they are being paid exactly what they are worth. A service provider will charge as much as possible, a consumer wants to pay as little as possible, the market sets the rate somewhere in between. Market economics at its simplest.

If people are not required to recieve treatment from a particular provider but still chose to pay €80, then they obviously feel it is value for money even if you don't.

Nesta99

Pretty much avoiding the addressing of the points I made. Yes clinics are small businesses, and yes it is understandable that somone will accept as much as they can get for their time at work. That doesnt make extortionate pricing right! The going rate is not always a fair rate. It is a particular problem when you have a cartel like situation where prices are held high limiting the choice of the patient to seek out cheaper alternatives. This is now happening as previously mentioned.

I reckon you would be hard pushed to find somone who thinks that €80 for a check up gives value for money, peope pay up due to lack of alternatives, not bothering to look for cheaper options, or not knowing there are better options.

I do acknowledge that people will pay a premium for familiarity, trust in the practioner, and continuity of care and that is their perogitive.

Now instead of cherry picking a piece of a post to address why dont you attempt to come up with a complete counter argument. Or is defending the indefensible too taxing?

As crude as it might be to use the estimate earlier of €320ph, take an 8hr day, 5 days pw for 48wks of the year thats over €600k - slightly more than a small business. A few pro bono cases could be done with those figures:o

davo10

Nesta99 wrote: »

Pretty much avoiding the addressing of the points I made. Yes clinics are small businesses, and yes it is understandable that somone will accept as much as they can get for their time at work. That doesnt make extortionate pricing right! The going rate is not always a fair rate. It is a particular problem when you have a cartel like situation where prices are held high limiting the choice of the patient to seek out cheaper alternatives. This is now happening as previously mentioned.

I reckon you would be hard pushed to find somone who thinks that €80 for a check up gives value for money, peope pay up due to lack of alternatives, not bothering to look for cheaper options, or not knowing there are better options.

I do acknowledge that people will pay a premium for familiarity, trust in the practioner, and continuity of care and that is their perogitive.

Now instead of cherry picking a piece of a post to address why dont you attempt to come up with a complete counter argument. Or is defending the indefensible too taxing?

As crude as it might be to use the estimate earlier of €320ph, take an 8hr day, 5 days pw for 48wks of the year thats over €600k - slightly more than a small business. A few pro bono cases could be done with those figures:o

The going rate is the fair rate if that is what the market sets the rate at. People always think that health services should be offered at the lowest possible rate because they are health services, they are a business like every other and the market place sets the price, not whether an individual feels a price is fair. Is that simple enough?

What cartel? For years people wanted more transparency and advertisement of prices. Now every dentist can see what competitors are charging and if the demand exists, there is no need to set prices below competitors. If you have evidence of cartelling, you should contact the competition authority immediately instead of making false accusations.

Just to put a simple question to you, if a dentist is charging €80, for a 10 minute clean ( my hygienist takes 30mins by the way ) has patients all the time non stop for a year and makes €320 per hour/€600k per year, in your opinion why would he/she reduce the price just because you think its unfair/poor value considering 8000 people will not have agreed with you?

As for pro bono, all dentists provide pro bono and reduced cost treatment to existing patients who may be experiencing financial problems but this tends to be treatments that are provided to relieve pain.

Now that wasn't taxing at all.

kormak

which dentist in Drogheda is this?? Name n Shame

davo10

Mods I suggest you step in here, OP has stated that he was overcharged for an examination which is claimed lasted only 30 sec. This is libellous, I have informed the dentist concerned, I'm certain he will be in touch with boards requesting OP IP details.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

davo10 wrote: »

Mods I suggest you step in here, OP has stated that he was overcharged for an examination which is claimed lasted only 30 sec. This is libellous, I have informed the dentist concerned, I'm certain he will be in touch with boards requesting OP IP details.

You might be better to use the report button as mods can't read all posts.

Nesta99

Its only libellous if it is not true! All the same, a bit of pressure is applied regarding percieved high levels of charging patients and next thing there is talk of requesting IP addresses, Libellous claims, mod intervention, one 'business' informing another of scurrilious talk on boards. The melodrama of it all......davo10 it wont be long until you have someone to scratch your back for ye.

As for market forces driving costs rather than business setting cost at levels en masse (allegedly hmmm), pure rubbish and a lazy justification.

davo10

Nesta99 wrote: »

Its only libellous if it is not true! All the same, a bit of pressure is applied regarding percieved high levels of charging patients and next thing there is talk of requesting IP addresses, Libellous claims, mod intervention, one 'business' informing another of scurrilious talk on boards. The melodrama of it all......davo10 it wont be long until you have someone to scratch your back for ye.

As for market forces driving costs rather than business setting cost at levels en masse (allegedly hmmm), pure rubbish and a lazy justification.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about setting prices high. If you have evidence that a cartel exists, contact the competition authority, if not then you are making unfounded allegations, lazy, stereotypical nonsense.

Markets drive all prices or are you the only person who doesn't understand or believe this. Here it is again, a vendor wants to charge as much as possible, a consumer wants to pay as little as possible, if the vendor charges too much no one buys, if they charge too little there is no profit. The price lies somewhere in between and as no consumer is required to buy a particular product from a particular vendor, the market sets the price. Simples.

As for the "melodrama" just because someone doesn't want to pay the going rate for a service, it doesn't give them the right to post on a forum that they were overcharged and given substandard treatment. Once they make that claim, it is right that the person whose business may be effected be informed of the allegation.

This post wasn't taxing either.

10green bottles

Feck the dentist!

Nesta99

Where did the op say that he got sub standard treatment? He said he paid x for check up and that the process was so quick he didnt feel the cost was warrented. Nothing substandard whatsoever apart from your ability to read and interpret posts correctly. The same goes for your unnecessary rubuttal on the legalities of high pricing.

Of course I dont have evidence to cartel like practices in dentistry, petrol stations, publicans, mobile phone and ISP's etc. But its doesnt mean that there are not suspicious similarities in pricing and business models and when somone breaks the mould there are attempts to claim that they are substandard. You certainly inferred that the cost and quality of the dentist i use may not be as good value as i suggested albeit a first and not the last misreading of a post.

Your grasp on market forces is too simples (sic) and while not incorrect there are many more variables to consider where the market prices settle.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

davo10

Nesta99 wrote: »

The same goes for your unnecessary rubuttal on the legalities of high pricing.

Of course I dont have evidence to cartel like practices in dentistry, petrol stations, publicans, mobile phone and ISP's etc. But its doesnt mean that there are not suspicious similarities in pricing and business models.

Cartels in the market place are illegal, you claimed there is one therefore it is important to point out that just because prices are similar doesn't mean there is a cartel.

Suspicious similarities in pricing and business models? Could this be because dentistry is a very small and specialised field of health care and that all clinics tend to be run on similar models because the types of treatments are in fact similar.

Also you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work out that since the Government insisted that prices are displayed, it is much easier for each dentist to see what their competitors are charging.

My explanation of how the market works had to be simple, just not simple enough apparently. Reminds me of something I read on another thread, for those that understand no explanation necessary, for those that do not understand by now, no explanation possible.

Incidentally, the OP claiming that an examination was done in 30 seconds was posted to suggest this was not long enough and that the dentist overcharged him.

kormak

davo10 wrote: »

Mods I suggest you step in here, OP has stated that he was overcharged for an examination which is claimed lasted only 30 sec. This is libellous, I have informed the dentist concerned, I'm certain he will be in touch with boards requesting OP IP details.

This is the maddest post I've read in a long time.
Almost as mad as the Irish Dental Ascociation getting up in arms with Love/Hate for misrepresenting Irish Dentists... (In a fictional drama)

davo10

kormak wrote: »

This is the maddest post I've read in a long time.
Almost as mad as the Irish Dental Ascociation getting up in arms with Love/Hate for misrepresenting Irish Dentists... (In a fictional drama)

I completely agree with you about the irish dental association, that was madness. But Kormack you asked OP to "name and shame" which is a phrase usually reserved for the exposure of people who have done something wrong. The guy named did nothing wrong except charge the going rate, the examination may have felt like 30secs but if the OP has more than one tooth, this would be impossible. If you libel someone by saying they did something wrong and "shaming" them in a way that might have a materiel effect on their business, you can bet your bile duct they are entitled to be pissed off .

Nesta99

davo10 wrote: »

Cartels in the market place are illegal, you claimed there is one therefore it is important to point out that just because prices are similar doesn't mean there is a cartel.

Suspicious similarities in pricing and business models? Could this be because dentistry is a very small and specialised field of health care and that all clinics tend to be run on similar models because the types of treatments are in fact similar.

Also you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work out that since the Government insisted that prices are displayed, it is much easier for each dentist to see what their competitors are charging.

My explanation of how the market works had to be simple, just not simple enough apparently. Reminds me of something I read on another thread, for those that understand no explanation necessary, for those that do not understand by now, no explanation possible.

Incidentally, the OP claiming that an examination was done in 30 seconds was posted to suggest this was not long enough and that the dentist overcharged him.

Seriously?! OP states the cost and say ' i thought it was a bit expensive', not that is was expensive or that he was ripped off, he simply expressed an opinion in question form - you go off on one screaming for mods to intervene and add to the suspicion that it was a rip off.

Cartel like scenario is not stating that there is a challangeable cartel, but your post on informing another dentist of this thread just adds to my opinion that the likelyhood of people in your industry agreeing not to undercut eachother and cause a price war is quite possible if not probable. Many other business groups I believe do the same, stifleing the natural mechanisms of the market and create a pricing system at the higher end of the scale that does not benefit the consumer.

Beacuse all dental clinics are run on a similar basis/model does not make that the correct model. I make no secret that i favour any model that benefits the consumer/patient even though I myself work in a 'specialised field of health care' even more crass, questionable and plastic(literally) than dentistry. I know exactly how the system work and how in the past health insurance covered those sundries that loaded the cost of the claim. The fact that insurance companies are not covering costs to the same extent as they used to is, as i'm sure you are aware of, having a knock on effect and whereby now it is possible the consumer is being squeezed for more little by little in hoping they dont notice (my observed opinion just so you are clear). This at a time when insurance premiums are soaring etc etc.

If you polled this thread i'd imagine that you would find it tough to get people to agree with your oversimplified and 'suiting your own position' market forces theory.

The days of people seeing the educated, traditionally the Medics, Teachers, Priests, as demigods are long gone. Ireland has an educated population and dont get fobbed off with excuses such as those you have spun in this thread. This is very different from grinning and bearing it and paying up anyway.

If you had said something like 'well i studied damn hard for 5 years at Uni, and for many years previous to get to Uni, the financial investment i made in my education was significant. Now my practice, insurance costs, staffing and overheads are similar to the effects of inflation of the septic tiger as with everyone else, therefore i feel i am worth what i charge, that i have earned the privilage and if ye dont like it move to Poland then.....or words to that effect.

Time for people to stop patronising and call a spade a spade from Taosigh down.

Frankly i'm bored of intransigence and going round in circles in this thread, and of course i am totally in the right:P

kormak

davo10 wrote: »

I completely agree with you about the irish dental association, that was madness. But Kormack you asked OP to "name and shame" which is a phrase usually reserved for the exposure of people who have done something wrong. The guy named did nothing wrong except charge the going rate, the examination may have felt like 30secs but if the OP has more than one tooth, this would be impossible. If you libel someone by saying they did something wrong and "shaming" them in a way that might have a materiel effect on their business, you can bet your bile duct they are entitled to be pissed off .

Well do you know what... get said dentist to take said poster to court over a 2 line remark/opinion where he felt a dentist's quick check-up was a tad excessive. I'm sure the judge will take the whole thing very seriously!!
If the dentist in question advertised a price for a procedure on his website and applied this charge to a client, then there is no shame as he done exactly what he quoted to do.
I think what I find mad is your melodramatic post about libel and IP addresses over a seemingly harmless remark. Have you heard of Twitter? Every second tweet could be considered libellous in your world.

Nesta99

for Davo

A patient is asking a dentist his prices.
‘How much for an extraction?’ ‘Seventy,’ replies the dentist.
‘Seventy quid? For a few minutes’ work,’ complains the patient.
‘I can make it last all afternoon if you like,’ replies the dentist.

or

Three ways to keep your teeth:
Brush after every meal, see your dentist every few months, and keep your nose out of other people’s business.

blingrhino

Jeasus,this is some Craic !

Nesta99

blingrhino wrote: »

Jeasus,this is some Craic !

With 1800 odd views, a good old debate attracted some attention!

54kroc

Nesta99 wrote: »

With 1800 odd views, a good old debate attracted some attention!

It's a good thread alright, although I think your wasting your time arguing with a dentist about prices.

davo10

54kroc wrote: »

It's a good thread alright, although I think your wasting your time arguing with a dentist about prices.

You are quite right, but our time would be wasted to an equal extent arguing with you that you are overpaid and not worth your wage. Two opposing opinions based on which side of the argument you are on, makes for a debate.

Nesta99

davo10 wrote: »

You are quite right, but our time would be wasted to an equal extent arguing with you that you are overpaid and not worth your wage. Two opposing opinions based on which side of the argument you are on, makes for a debate.

Davo, it would be good to hear your own opinion on such things as the costs of running a practice, whether wages of staff pre, during and post 2007/8 influence costs 2014. How you think things will be going forward et al?

In the past I was most definately overpaid, a touch more vocational in my views now days:eek:

chrysagon

i paid 100 euro recently just for an xray with a dentist in co cavan... and 70 euro, a month ago for a check up and clean, from dentist in Meath.. rip off all round

54kroc

davo10 wrote: »

You are quite right, but our time would be wasted to an equal extent arguing with you that you are overpaid and not worth your wage. Two opposing opinions based on which side of the argument you are on, makes for a debate.

Good point, but I'm quite willing to admit that I'm currently over paid and certainly not worth my wage, something an Irish dentist would never admit.

davo10

chrysagon wrote: »

i paid 100 euro recently just for an xray with a dentist in co cavan... and 70 euro, a month ago for a check up and clean, from dentist in Meath.. rip off all round

Did the Dentist take the x-ray, then ask you for €100 before opening the door to let you out?

Or, was it say a digital OPT x-ray taken to diagnose a problem like an impacted wisdom tooth, to check for its proximity to the underlying nerves, did he/she examine the x-ray, interpret the information contained therein, diagnose the problem, form a treatment plan, explain the problem found and treatment plan to you and any potential side effects of treatment and then advise you of the best course of action.

The sticker price on one of those bad boys is between €30 and €250k, yes that is a quarter of a million. The one I have cost me a few cent shy of €40k so you bet your ass you pay for having an x-ray taken, the additional cost is for the diagnosis and time taken for the related discussion.

davo10

Nesta99 wrote: »

Davo, it would be good to hear your own opinion on such things as the costs of running a practice, whether wages of staff pre, during and post 2007/8 influence costs 2014. How you think things will be going forward et al?

In the past I was most definately overpaid, a touch more vocational in my views now days:eek:

I read this a few days ago and i've been thinking about whether or not to respond, I realize I'm on a hiding to nothing here and setting myself up for more abuse but here is goes.

The costs of providing dentistry have increased significantly since 2008 and the net income of dentists has decreased because of these rises and deminishing patient numbers. I worked in the North and England before I bought a clinic in the late nineties. At the time I bought, I paid twice the yearly gross for the business, that was standard at the time, now dentists can not give their clinics away as no one wants to own one and as a result, clinics are closing. Typically Clinics run on a 15-17% net profit margin so if the clinic owner does a cleaning and charges €80, he/she gets to take home around €12. If the associate does it as happened with the OP, the amount is split 50:50 so each one gets approx €6.

There are only a few items of expenditure that clinic owners can control, materials, laboratories wages and time. We can use cheaper materials and labs ( I know the good labs in Ireland and the bad ones, I know what each one charges as they continually send us flyers/emails with their prices, I know that if a dentist charges a low price for a crown, either the crown was cheap or the patient was treated very quickly to cut down clinical time because their clinical costs would be based on a similar scale to everyone else's ) but if we do, the results are effected, patient satisfaction erodes and we end up having to re-do treatments which involves more time.

Wages in my Clinic have increased approximately 25% since 2008. Good, reliable staff are very hard to find. Long before a patient meets a dentist they will have spoken to the receptionist on the phone and met them when they enter the Clinic, poor staff can reflect badly on the clinic and even if the patient likes the dentist they can end up leaving if the receptionist/nurse was rude/unhelpful to them. I pay my staff well because they are worth it to my business.

Time is crucial, having worked in the NHS in the UK, I know how important the amount of time you spend with a patient can be on the bottom line. In my first job the owner used to book two patients in to every appointment, we would have to see between 40 and 50 patients a day. The faster you can treat a patient, the more patients you see in a day, the more profit is made. I book off 90 minutes for a crown prep and I use a top class lab, I could probably do it in 60 mins, use a cheap lab and still charge the same but I know the result will suffer. I book off 2 hours for second stage molar root canals so I am not rushing treatment. Regularly patients say to me that they got the same treatment for less somewhere else, I say fair enough off you go.

All dental clinics have to be in urban areas, you can have a doctors clinic out in the country in the middle of nowhere but not a dental clinic. Therefore the properties used will nearly always be among the pricier to rent/buy. Since 2008 the value of my building may have gone down but the price I paid for it hasn't. These are commercial mortgages so even though ECB rates may have gone down since then, repayments have changed very little. Postage/electricity/Insurance/Phone/heating costs/Commercial rates etc have all gone up since 2008. Just to give you an example, because of the compressors/suction units/Lighting necessary to run my clinic, my typical electricity bill is €1000 per month. It is not a case that you can easily close a clinic and move down the street just because the landlord wont give you a rent reduction, there is a considerable amount of specialized plumbing/electrical etc work to be done during the set up.

One of the biggest increases is the hike in indemnity insurance (insurance against being sued). Unlike a car insurance policy where if you are a bad driver and make lots of claims, your premium goes up, we have universal insurance premiums which go up dependent on the number of overall claims. Also our indemnity companies are offshoots of medical companies so our yearly premiums are also dependent on what is paid out for medical negligence. As a result of this my yearly premium has gone up by an eye watering 400% even though I have never had a claim made against me.

I am not using this as a way of justifying what people think are high prices, frankly I'm not concerned whether people agree with me or not, my reason for responding to the OP was to inform him that €80 was the going rate and he was not ripped off, but I can tell you I don't offer discount deals because I don't have to. As far as I am concerned I am being paid what the market will bare therefore I am being paid exactly what I am worth, I make no apologies for this. Nesta you said you don't agree with how dentists run their clinics, if you can tell me how to run it any differently, I'd appreciate the advice.