Denis O’Brien and Irish Water

kunst nugget

A very innocuous piece about Irish Water protecting its pipe network had a very interesting comment that I think everyone should read about the history of Irish Water. It is a very maddening read…

So, lets see – Irish Water: a synopsis so far.

Ireland goes bankrupt and the Troika calls for more taxes.
Water meters are decided upon and a plan to build Irish Water are hatched.
Siemens, a company with massive resources and know-how in this area – and also with a massive installed base in the UK – offer to install the meters for free.

Phil Hogan declines Siemens’ offer – no answer as to why he decided this was ever forthcoming – “just, no – we have an Irish solution to this”
Both Siemens and industry analysts are baffled as to why a state would go for a far more expensive solution.

Denis O Brien, the man accused by a High Court Judge to have “beyond all doubt” bribed a FG government to gain control of a a state asset (Esat)- and to have subsequently made hundreds of millions by selling same – “purchases” a company called Siteserv which specialises in the installation of water meters.

This is about a year before the water meter tender.

Now, numerous European companies also wanted to buy Siteserv and offered way more money for the company (which then owed €100 million to Anglo Irish Bank and was completely insolvent).

The Irish Government (weirdly again FG) – (or actually you, Mr(s). Irish Taxpayer) gave the company to Denis O Brien with the €100 million owed to Anglo (now state owned – i.e. by you) written off. It’s not written off for you, the taxpayer – you still pay it – it’s just that Denis doesn’t, got it?

Some gamble for Denis to buy a company with €100 million written off and with no guarantee of a lucrative water meter contract.

A business in an area where he has no previous experience or competence.
Siteserv subsequently bids in the EU tendering process and, lo and behold, wins. The contract is for hundreds of millions of Euros.

Now, enter Irish Water.

The CEO of which used to be the financial officer of an organisation which spent €100 million of Irish taxpayer’s money on the, according to the EU, illegal process to build an incinerator in Dublin.

No incinerator was ever built or will ever be built but €100 million, again of your money, is gone – and John is now the CEO of Irish Water.

No minutes of meetings – which spent €100 million of your money were ever recorded – the money is just gone.

John then installs his homeboys and homegirls from the Poolbeg project to Irish Water – citing the abysmal salaries at Irish Water as the reason why nobody else would apply for these jobs.

People who were direct beneficiaries of the illegal Poolbegl scam are now newly fledged semi-state employees.

Paid for by you, the taxpayer – again.

Okay?
The biggest langer in this solar system is the Irish taxpayer.

This is just the latest episode of the calamity that is Ireland Inc.

We haven’t a fcuking chance – no matter who we vote for.

But, we’re great craic.

Heh heh heh

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-water-has-no-reports-of-thefts-1269511-Jan2014/?utm_source=shortlink

nelly17

Yeah read this comment on the journal earlier what a spectacular display of Croneyisim, just what is the hold that DOB has over high ranking Public officials?

Augmerson

Where was this taken from OP?

kunst nugget

Augmerson wrote: »

Where was this taken from OP?

Apologies, link now in original post.

nelly17

Linky

you're looking for comment#1

Irish Steve

As has been commented on all over the corruption threads, welcome to the workings of the Golden Circle.

Are we surprised? Are we Fcuk

More stinking snouts in well filled troughs.

Augmerson

Dunno what to make of it. Certainly pissed off. Is this all true? How come the media aren't coming out with this?

Phill Ewinn

Point is that people put them there. That somehow isn't registering with people.

Use your votes please. Stop mis-using them on FF/FG.

nelly17

The Public Accounts Comitee should be called in if its true but their hardly going to investigate themselves.

Artful_Badger

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Point is that people put them there. That somehow isn't registering with people.

Use your votes please. Stop mis-using them on FF/FG.

Point is it doesn't matter who you vote for. The boys at the top will always be taking care of themselves and pals.

Kippure

Augmerson wrote: »

Dunno what to make of it. Certainly pissed off. Is this all true? How come the media aren't coming out with this?

Me to . Media...what media. There afraid to report on any thing which might upset the status flow.. afraid to report on things that cut deep to the bone.

There are no Journalist,s in Ireland anymore . The last real Journalist was Veronica Guerin. God bless her.

Irish Steve

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Point is that people put them there. That somehow isn't registering with people.

Use your votes please. Stop mis-using them on FF/FG.

And the viable and TRUSTABLE alternative that will be capable of running the country is.........???

None of the above, or Revolution as options on the bottom of the voting forms are both looking increasingly necessary

mikom

Phil Hogan and Denis O'Brien wear suits and ties, so are exempt from blame.
Move along, folks, in your jumpers and dunnes stores jeans.

Augmerson

Was going to message the lad that posted that but the link on journal just goes to Twitter and I don't use it. Wonder if he uses Boards.ie? Would love to ask him more about it.

debabyjesus

I smell a tribunal coming

My name is URL

nelly17 wrote: »

The Public Accounts Comitee should be called in if its true but their hardly going to investigate themselves.

Ah, I'm sure it will be subject to a tribunal in a few years, and by the time any conclusions are made nobody can be prosecuted and the masses will just be glad it's over.

It's the Irish way

Taxburden carrier

The snouts were never in the trough as much as they are now. This is why the country will NEVER recover.

Banjo String

Irish Water should be the death of this Govt tbh, but this is Ireland.

Business as usual.

michael999999

Fianna fail have there golden circle

Fine Gael have there golden circle

We get shafted!

donegal__road

Augmerson wrote: »

Dunno what to make of it. Certainly pissed off. Is this all true? How come the media aren't coming out with this?

guess who owns Independent Media?

RiverOfLove

I used to pay attention a lot to news and politics but I gave up. Many news stories about corruption and greed distressed me. Something else that upsets me is the reaction from the public or the lack of. Outside from online forums nobody gives a damn what happens to the country. Speak up about wrongs coming from the top and our leaders and you're quickly shot to **** down with a response like: 'relax, why are you getting your knickers in a twist'. Unfortunately, the greed at the top is a reflection of Irish society.

Augmerson

Augmerson wrote: »

Dunno what to make of it. Certainly pissed off. Is this all true? How come the media aren't coming out with this?

Most media in Ireland are little more than a mouth piece for whatever party is in control and the rest would sooner report on what celebrity is banging which than do anything that may rick the boat. The corruption in this country is staggering and at this stage they don't even bother trying to hide it Irish water is just the latest in a long line if projects where those in power get to pack their rich friends in the back for a job well done while the Irish people pay their wages and for any mistakes. That there is serious consideration being given to privatising the social welfare system days a lot about how the government looks down upon anyone outside the golden circle.

Cantona's Collars

debabyjesus wrote: »

I smell a tribunal coming

In a decades time when those responsible "won't remember" what they did.The result will be more millions wasted and nobody goes to jail for corruption,good old Ireland.

Is there any reason why the Troika can't send over independent investigators to go through this whole mess,seeing as it was FG who said the Troika were the ones who advocated water meters & property taxes.Essentially this is the Troika's baby,they should be keeping an eye on it.

The Troika wanted money savings and instead our glorious government waste hundreds of millions,surely somebody should be accountable and sit in front of a panel to explain what the hell is going on.

corkonion

During the Celtic tiger era these greedy thieves were financed by the banks which we are now paying for. Now as the banks have no money to give them, our politicians want to finance them by taxing us more. I never doubted the Fine Gael would look after "their own" but I am sickened that Labour have their snouts so deep in the trough that they cant even be bothered to think about the people.

ArmaniJeanss

Article seems flawed, e.g., referring to the EU saying the process to build an incinerator was 'illegal'. Not true afaik, there may have been some problems with the process which led to it being held up in the courts, but there was/is nothing fundamentally illegal about the incinerator process.

And the claim that Siemens offered to install meters for free is dubious as well, technically they offered us a no-money-up-front deal but we would still be paying them money back over a period of years and presumably Siemens wouldn't be at a loss overall. It is likely still a better deal than what Phil Hogan got, but to call it 'free' is rubbish to appeal to the masses.

It just leaves me wondering how much else is inaccurate in the article.

Artful_Badger

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Article seems flawed, e.g., referring to the EU saying the process to build an incinerator was 'illegal'. Not true afaik, there may have been some problems with the process which led to it being held up in the courts, but there was/is nothing fundamentally illegal about the incinerator process.

And the claim that Siemens offered to install meters for free is dubious as well, technically they offered us a no-money-up-front deal but we would still be paying them money back over a period of years and presumably Siemens wouldn't be at a loss overall. It is likely still a better deal than what Phil Hogan got, but to call it 'free' is rubbish to appeal to the masses.

It just leaves me wondering how much else is inaccurate in the article.

Its not an article, its a comment posted on an article on the journal.

harryr711

I had no idea Siemens had made such an offer. I've come across Siemens financing in my own industry and they finance projects along very similar lines to this proposal - i.e. the financing payments are offset by the savings made by the project over a set number of years, allowing the project to be cash positive from day one, and the equipment basically pays for itself. It's a fair deal for all parties.

hedgehog2

Am I fecking surprised no,do I feel like a royal mug being a citizen of this country YES.
This was all being schemed when the government were taking respite care awat from the sick and poor,when I took a pay cut and stayed working in Ireland to do my bit and get the place back on its feet again.
All my debts I continue to service,we as a couple have been ridden by stealth taxes,my parents retirement pension is way down and I see our neighbours really struggling.
This country really stinks of siht and we are shoveled it day in and day out without anyone challenging the establishment as they havecset it up this way.
In 2016 we are going to have these crooks celebrating the 100yr anniversary of the 1916 rising,if Collins and Pearse were to observe such practice those found guilty would be tried for treason.
It shows us that while the country was in the thick of the mess these boys were plotting how to take advantage of it the very same crowd that dropped us in it.
I am livid but its just one of many,my wife and I decided last year to give Ireland another 2yrs and we are out.
This plan is just reaffirmed ever more now,there is no chance for the ordinary joe/jill to make a go of it as we are constantly being robbed and cheated by this hugely negative wanken circle.

chasm

The whole set up of Irish water has been dubious from the beginning and i have no doubts that when it is fully up and running this will continue to be the case. It's just one more money making scheme for the "suits", nothing new for this country :mad:

kunst nugget

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

And the claim that Siemens offered to install meters for free is dubious as well, technically they offered us a no-money-up-front deal but we would still be paying them money back over a period of years and presumably Siemens wouldn't be at a loss overall. It is likely still a better deal than what Phil Hogan got, but to call it 'free' is rubbish to appeal to the masses.

Environment Minister Phil Hogan snubbed a private-sector offer to finance water meters that could have saved over €350m.

German infrastructure and energy giant Siemens offered to foot the €810m-plus cost of installing meters in 1.3 million Irish homes back in 2010, but Mr Hogan didn't pursue the option when he took over at the Department of the Environment.

One of the biggest players in the British water meter market, Siemens proposed funding the fitting of water meters through an investment to be paid back through savings made in the multibillion-euro cost of providing water services once the meters were installed.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/siemens-cheaper-water-meter-offer-snubbed-by-minister-hogan-26845507.html

donegal__road

@hedgehog
This is why we are heading to Canada eventually. I know they have water rates and property tax there, but at least you can be sure of being looked after if you ever become ill. I know hospital staff are doing their best in Ireland with what resources they have, but if there are going to be more cuts to the health budget, and another 70,000 medical cards taken away.. I think the general mood in Ireland could become very unpleasant soon.

baddebt

we continue to get p1ssed on from a great height ,
and whats worse the country will not stand united against irishpisswater,
most will simply bend over and enjoy the ride

I honestly wish someone would invade this country and rid us of our current self serving Politicial system
Run by the rich ...for the rich.

kunst nugget

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Article seems flawed, e.g., referring to the EU saying the process to build an incinerator was 'illegal'. Not true afaik, there may have been some problems with the process which led to it being held up in the courts, but there was/is nothing fundamentally illegal about the incinerator process.

The European Commission has called upon Dublin City Council to terminate a contract for client services and public relations at the Poolbeg incinerator in which spending over-ran by more than €20m.

The contract was originally estimated at €8.3m but ended up costing around €30m.

In a letter written by the EU Commission in April of this year, and seen by RTÉ, the commission described the contractual arrangement as an "illegal situation".

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1110/485798-poolbeg-incinerator/

Akrasia

Here's more information about Denis O Brien's acquisition of Siteserve

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/ten-things-to-know-about-the-denis-obriensiteserv-transaction/

This looks extremely suspicious (libel warnings should probably be posted on this thread to protect Boards)

Dyr

As long as you have the same two parties cycling in and out of government you will get this. This is a country where Michael Lowry can top a poll.

Run by the rich for the rich and all made possible by the ****ing gob****es who vote for them

hedgehog2

No minutes of meetings at Poolbeg,a fcukin university can keep minutes on expenditure of a few hundred euro surely a state agency can do thecsame unless there is something to hide.
More like minutes were kept,questions are gonna be asked lads go destroy those files.
Bank guarantee correspondence,could be a tribunal lads best burn those letters.
Its endless and so obvious to everyone but no one gives a toss.
I haved dealt with corrupt officials in Nigeria and believe me they could learn a few tricks from our elite (masters in thievery).

Patch123

I know, why don't we all just agree here and now not to pay the water charges.

vicwatson

donegal__road wrote: »

guess who owns Independent Media?

And recently had a 138 Million euro writedown of their debt

Sorry 138m not 150m as first posted - sure whats 12 million between friends eh

Nodin

donegal__road wrote: »

guess who owns Independent Media?

And who regularily threatens journalists who refer to the findings of the tribunal, be they well known or otherwise.

hedgehog2

Ohh my good grief did'nt know inm got a write down and his deep pockets.
I avoid buying any papers,wont read independent online and avoid Topaz as its connected to that guy.

Son Of A Vidic

debabyjesus wrote: »

I smell a tribunal coming

Yes 5 years from now and it will then of course run for at least 7 years.

vicwatson

hedgehog2 wrote: »

No minutes of meetings at Poolbeg,a fcukin university can keep minutes on expenditure of a few hundred euro surely a state agency can do thecsame unless there is something to hide.
More like minutes were kept,questions are gonna be asked lads go destroy those files.
Bank guarantee correspondence,could be a tribunal lads best burn those letters.
Its endless and so obvious to everyone but no one gives a toss.
I haved dealt with corrupt officials in Nigeria and believe me they could learn a few tricks from our elite (masters in thievery).

Minutes of CRC meetings gone west awell

vicwatson

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Yes 5 years from now and it will then of course run for at least 7 years.

And end up as a report on a shelf serving no purpose whatsoever

vicwatson

http://www.siteserv.ie/page.php?cat=Subsidiaries&cid=4&ct=Sierra

ArmaniJeanss

kunst nugget wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/siemens-cheaper-water-meter-offer-snubbed-by-minister-hogan-26845507.html

So not actually free then as the original article/link stated. Possibly, almost certainly cheaper and a shame we didn't follow it up. But not free.

kunst nugget wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1110/485798-poolbeg-incinerator/

So not actually illegal as the link article claimed, just one small part of the process (public relations) was illegal.


My own fault for getting involved really, I hadn't clicked on the link and as poster Svlad Cjelli points out its a comment, not an article. I'd assumed that we didn't have entire threads discussing random badly written factually incorrect comments at the end of website articles, but hey that's progress I suppose. Out.

donegal__road

Patch123 wrote: »

I know, why don't we all just agree here and now not to pay the water charges.

it would be as simple as going to a spring well for your drinking water a few times a week, I know several people that do this. Then have gutter extended from your house guttering and direct it into your tank in the attic for flushing the toilets, washing machine etc. A decent plumber would do this for you in a day.

vicwatson

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

So not actually free then as the original article/link stated. Possibly, almost certainly cheaper and a shame we didn't follow it up. But not free.



So not actually illegal as the link article claimed, just one small part of the process (public relations) was illegal.


My own fault for getting involved really, I hadn't clicked on the link and as poster Svlad Cjelli points out its a comment, not an article. I'd assumed that we didn't have entire threads discussing random badly written factually incorrect comments at the end of website articles, but hey that's progress I suppose. Out.

Byyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

theenergy

corruption and stinks like hell

its like the guys who run the clamping company dsps it is owned by derek quinlan

and hey guess what he also owns the courts collection services for fines..

complete and utter madness

Phill Ewinn

Irish Steve wrote: »

And the viable and TRUSTABLE alternative that will be capable of running the country is.........???

None of the above, or Revolution as options on the bottom of the voting forms are both looking increasingly necessary

Ah yes. This chestnut. Keep the cnuts in power shure an' begorrah de wee Oirish people won't do better.'


Do you understand that there are STEPS in every process?
Do you understand the first step is voting these cnuts out?

Would you let a burglar into your home on the basis that a different burglar might be worse?

Chips Lovell

Way back in 2010 Siemens offered some kind of deal whereby they would lend the money to the state to install water meters and get paid back from savings the new system would create. However, I don't think they even tendered for the contract when it finally came around (they were never mentioned in any of the reports about who the bidders were). Contracts were awarded in July of last year, to three different operators (not one as implied in the OP). Siteserv owned half of one consortium (Sierra/GMC). In short, they were one of five companies to benefit from water meter contracts: J Murphy and Sons; Coffey/Northumbrian; and Sierra/GMC.

Still, let's not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Phill Ewinn

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Way back in 2010 Siemens offered some kind of deal whereby they would lend the money to the state to install water meters and get paid back from savings the new system would create. However, I don't think they even tendered for the contract when it finally came around (they were never mentioned in any of the reports about who the bidders were). Contracts were awarded in July of last year, to three different operators (not one as implied in the OP). Siteserv owned half of one consortium (Sierra/GMC). In short, they were one of five companies to benefit from water meter contracts: J Murphy and Sons; Coffey/Northumbrian; and Sierra/GMC.

Still, let's not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

DOB is siteserve!

That's the reason he got €100m. Alan Dukes gave DOB €100m. That happened. It's not a conspiracy theory.