€4m Rehab scratch card sales yielded just €9,452 profit in 2010

IvaBigWun

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0121/499312-rehab-scratch-card-sales/

It would seem that charity CEOs are the new corrupt politicians

Rehab lottery scratch card sales of almost €4m in 2010 yielded profits of only €9,452, according to Minister for Justice Alan Shatter.

He gave details in the Dáil regarding his decision to phase out the Charitable Lottery Scheme.

Mr Shatter said when he assumed responsibility for the operation of the scheme, he undertook a review of payments being made.

He said that Rehab lottery scratch card sales of €3.969m yielded profits of only €9,452 in 2010.

Prizes of €2.6m were given out, while the costs associated with the scratch cards were €1.348m, according to the minister's statement.

Rehab Bingo sales of €3.19m during this period yielded profits of €548,000.

Mr Shatter said his decision to phase out the scheme was based on four reasons - that the scheme encourages inefficient fundraising practices and high administration costs; that it creates an incentive to run a charitable lottery at a low profit margin or at a loss and that it results in low proportions of profits reaching designated charities.

He also said it was unfair to the donors that a low proportion of monies donated was being used for charitable purposes and that the scheme had “essentially evolved into a mechanism to obtain taxpayers and National Lottery surplus funds”

drunkmonkey

They did nothing illegal, hell the government even subsidised them to do it.

Sir Arthur Daley

I was never an honours maths student but those figures do not add up anyway.

Rabies

WikiHow wrote: »

I was never an honours maths student but those figures do not add up anyway.

You forgot to carry the one...

























in a brown envelope

kneemos

Lottery cards by definition make less for charity because of the prizes,but that is pointless.

homerjay2005

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They did nothing illegal, hell the government even subsidised them to do it.

illegal no, incompetent yes. to make only 9k on a 4million turnover is just the definition of bad business practice.

DeanAustin

homerjay2005 wrote: »

illegal no, incompetent yes. to make only 9k on a 4million turnover is just the definition of bad business practice.

At first I thought so too but I heard on the radio today that the size of the government's subsidy was based on sales rather than profit. Therefore, Rehab were better off selling €4 million and making only €10k rather than selling €2 million and making €500k.

If that's true then I don't blame Rehab at all. They were incentivised to not make a profit. The government, or whoever approved that, deserve a kick in the hole though.

drunkmonkey

homerjay2005 wrote: »

illegal no, incompetent yes. to make only 9k on a 4million turnover is just the definition of bad business practice.

That depends on your point of view, if you were Angela "I won't tell you may salary" Kerins you'd be pretty happy. The business made loads of money for its owners and that's what matters to them.

everdead.ie

doesn't the guy in the bib get an extraordinary share of whatever he sells?

The Backwards Man

Never seen a Rehab scratchcard in my
life.

drunkmonkey

everdead.ie wrote: »

doesn't the guy in the bib get an extraordinary share of whatever he sells?

He gets the full 1st years donations.

IvaBigWun

everdead.ie wrote: »

doesn't the guy in the bib get an extraordinary share of whatever he sells?

BLB?

Murt10

Brilliant this from Morning Ireland on RTE 1 on 6 Jan 2014. CEO Angela Kerins of Rehab refused to divulge her salary, bullsh****ing that Rehab was operating in a commercial environment.

Skip the first part, which is what she came on to be interviewed about, to 3.10 mins. She was rightly ambushed and full of bluster. RTE even deferred going over to the 8.30 am news, so that they could question her

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2014/0106/20499542-rehab-group-signs-contract-to-develop-employment-programmes-for-people-with-disabilities-in-saudi-arabia/

Hats off to RTE for the interview and also to the current edition of the Pheonix for highlighting it again

Menas

It really is an odd situation. Governement seem to match sales of these ticekts rather than profits. So no incentive to make them profitable.
4Million in sales. 1.3 million in admin costs. 2.7 million in prizes if I remember correctly (rehab 2010 figures).

So the government, having audited Rehab, decide to get rid of the charitable lottery act. And Rehab take them to court.

Sound like now that FF are out of power Angela is discovering that the corridors of power are less welcoming and is going to battle the governemnt all the way.

Sadly, like the CRC your average punter will see this as another charity wasting money and may hold back on future donations.

As said on another thread. Registered charities should be compelled to publish their accounts and in particular to show what % of donations/income goes to 'admin' and what goes to the true cause. Then people can decide for themselves if it is worthy of their money.

micosoft

Trigger Happy wrote: »

It really is an odd situation. Governement seem to match sales of these ticekts rather than profits. So no incentive to make them profitable.
4Million in sales. 1.3 million in admin costs. 2.7 million in prizes if I remember correctly (rehab 2010 figures).

So the government, having audited Rehab, decide to get rid of the charitable lottery act. And Rehab take them to court.

Sound like now that FF are out of power Angela is discovering that the corridors of power are less welcoming and is going to battle the governemnt all the way.

Sadly, like the CRC your average punter will see this as another charity wasting money and may hold back on future donations.

As said on another thread. Registered charities should be compelled to publish their accounts and in particular to show what % of donations/income goes to 'admin' and what goes to the true cause. Then people can decide for themselves if it is worthy of their money.

The government put the scheme in when the National Lottery was created to make up for the lost income some charities who ran existing lotteries might have. That was a long time ago and it appears Rehab figured out how to game the system - they get plenty of grant aid to make their lottery worthwhile even if the lottery itself makes no money.
It's about time this was addressed but the reaction of Rehab was to sue the state for (and yes, this is the figure) €1.5 billion.
It takes some staggering amount of neck to do this for a state owned entity. The extraordinary statement yesterday that a Minister is not entitled to observe some pretty basic facts around the situation is also shocking along with the intemperate language. Finally the last annual report is from 2011, 2012 is still not out.
For a state owned organisation this is a level of hubris that I suspect will come back to bite them.

kneemos

micosoft wrote: »

The government put the scheme in when the National Lottery was created to make up for the lost income some charities who ran existing lotteries might have. That was a long time ago and it appears Rehab figured out how to game the system - they get plenty of grant aid to make their lottery worthwhile even if the lottery itself makes no money.
It's about time this was addressed but the reaction of Rehab was to sue the state for (and yes, this is the figure) €1.5 billion.
It takes some staggering amount of neck to do this for a state owned entity. The extraordinary statement yesterday that a Minister is not entitled to observe some pretty basic facts around the situation is also shocking along with the intemperate language. Finally the last annual report is from 2011, 2012 is still not out.
For a state owned organisation this is a level of hubris that I suspect will come back to bite them.

Presumably their grant aid will be protected so you have to wonder why they are eager to protect a lottery that doesn't make a profit.

Menas

kneemos wrote: »

Presumably their grant aid will be protected so you have to wonder why they are eager to protect a lottery that doesn't make a profit.

They are eager because the 'profit' comes from the state matching their sales.
So they sell €4M of tickets and it costs them €4M to sell/administer.
The current arragement is that the government will then grant them €4M.
But if they sell 0 then they get 0 from the charitable lottery act.

Ridiculous right? No incentive for them to make any profit on the original sales.

I presume they get other government funding - but dont know for sure.

flutered

too me the charity gigs are like the goverment and their financiers, the guys a the top get a large whack, while the guy at the bottom get little.

golfball37

They can't blame this one on FF either as the Rehab board is stuffed full of FG cronies.

Great country.

c_man

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Never seen a Rehab scratchcard in my
life.

You're not missing much in fairness.

ThisRegard

golfball37 wrote: »

They can't blame this one on FF either as the Rehab board is stuffed full of FG cronies.

Great country.

Now even SF are saying that it's the prior government that have questions to answer on this.

Manach

The irony is that the Gov is highlighting these selected figures as an example of a poor return of money for services provided. Pot/Kettle/Black.

Johnny Jukebox

If an organisation takes 1c of public money, then said organisation must be fully transparent to the public.

delthedriver

Unbelieveable ! Fair play to Minister Shatter for bringing this into the open.

No doubt many individuals contributed or bought ticket to support the worthy cause.

Sadly it looks like all they were supporting were the lifestyles of a small group of individuals.

What next?

suicide_circus

Johnny Jukebox wrote: »

If an organisation takes 1c of public money, then said organisation must be fully transparent to the public.

that's the dream! but they will fight thIs tooth and nail claiming their salary information is somehow commercially sensitive as they know the money they are milking is totally unjustifiably and indeed probably immoral.

EyeSight

golfball37 wrote: »

They can't blame this one on FF either as the Rehab board is stuffed full of FG cronies.

Great country.

Why is every aspect of Ireland now just a group of cronies? I'm so sick of it. I've come to expect it of the government and other state bodies but now charities too?
Can we not just remove everything and start all over?

flutered

a few weeks ago the crew looking into the crc wanted to interview a guy from the board, it was not possible, why, he was on a fundraising gig to burma, enough said methinks.

suicide_circus

EyeSight wrote: »

Why is every aspect of Ireland now just a group of cronies? I'm so sick of it. I've come to expect it of the government and other state bodies but now charities too?
Can we not just remove everything and start all over?

pretty much any institution or venture which involves public money in any way in this country is knee deep in inefficiency, cronyism, waste and borderline corruption. Every week there is a new revelation and every week nothing changes.

golfball37

We all have the power to change it by never voting for the 3 parties that endorse this behaviour but alas nothing changes.

delthedriver

EyeSight wrote: »

Why is every aspect of Ireland now just a group of cronies? I'm so sick of it. I've come to expect it of the government and other state bodies but now charities too?
Can we not just remove everything and start all over?

Agreed, back to basics.!

Shocking stuff. It looks like every Institution , Financial, Political , Charitable has something nasty going on.

Sadly all these issues don't help outside Investor's to consider Ireland as a good place to invest.

The sooner these issues are dealt with the better. Perhaps then we can draw a line in the sand and start again from scratch.

delthedriver

golfball37 wrote: »

We all have the power to change it by never voting for the 3 parties that endorse this behaviour but alas nothing changes.

Very true! We get what we vote for!
Having said that I am not aware of any credible Political Party who could be seen as a genuine alternative!

mad muffin

Deny and deflect, deny and deflect.

everdead.ie

golfball37 wrote: »

We all have the power to change it by never voting for the 3 parties that endorse this behaviour but alas nothing changes.

I don't think this can be blamed on any political party FG are actively trying to remove this clause and are being sued for it, the only real question is how long has this behaviour been going on for and why was shatter the first to notice?

Was it just small change during the boom so insignificant or did they know what about before then?

mikom

Murt10 wrote: »

Brilliant this from Morning Ireland on RTE 1 on 6 Jan 2014. CEO Angela Kerins of Rehab refused to divulge her salary, bullsh****ing that Rehab was operating in a commercial environment.

Skip the first part, which is what she came on to be interviewed about, to 3.10 mins. She was rightly ambushed and full of bluster. RTE even deferred going over to the 8.30 am news, so that they could question her

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2014/0106/20499542-rehab-group-signs-contract-to-develop-employment-programmes-for-people-with-disabilities-in-saudi-arabia/

Hats off to RTE for the interview and also to the current edition of the Pheonix for highlighting it again

200 and something odd thousand......... Jaysus.
When you hear someone utter the words "at the end of the day", you know they are cornered.

EyeSight

delthedriver wrote: »

Very true! We get what we vote for!
Having said that I am not aware of any credible Political Party who could be seen as a genuine alternative!

I agree, besides the big 3 who are all the same, the other parties are very socialist. I don't think a government of independents would work well either.

I don't mind if politicians or public figures screw up or make a mistake. I just for once, for once! would like them to say "Yes i screwed up, sorry. Here's how i'll fix it". Even Fianna Fail are still denying they did anything wrong. They just blamed everyone who left the party

Rehab have slammed the comments as being misleading but provided no explanation of how they were mislead... :rolleyes:

Murt10

mikom wrote: »

200 and something odd thousand......... Jaysus.
When you hear someone utter the words "at the end of the day", you know they are cornered.

Ah here, hold on a moment. You wouldn't expect any half self respecting fat cat to survive on a mere E200 + odd thousand.

According to the Pheonix article, in Jan 2012 they reported that in 2009 Kerrins's salary was E260,000 plus bonuses, expenses and entitlements which brought her total package to around E400,000.

In 2011 her salary was reduced to E234,000 although she is still in receipt of unspecified extras.

The article also states that they put questions to Rehab that reports from within Rehab indicated that 6 directors below Kerins were receiving E150,000 pa and that several regional directors were getting E100,000 each.

Rehab refused to reply to the questions, again.

Glad I don't buy Rehab tickets

IvaBigWun

Murt10 wrote: »

In 2011 her salary was reduced to E234,000 although she is still in receipt of unspecified extras.

Whhhhhy?!


She makes them no money!

How much of the 9 grand profit goes on wages?

Had to laugh at Vincent Brown last night, just caught a snippet and there was a one on saying "Sure everyone knew the CRC payments were being made" and he asked her 3 or 4 times if she knew until she admitted she did. He then asked why she didn't report it to Reilly or anyone and she said "Oh well it's above my paygrade." Strong principles.

mikom

Deleted User wrote: »

How much of the 9 grand profit goes on wages?

Had to laugh at Vincent Brown last night, just caught a snippet and there was a one on saying "Sure everyone knew the CRC payments were being made" and he asked her 3 or 4 times if she knew until she admitted she did. He then asked why she didn't report it to Reilly or anyone and she said "Oh well it's above my paygrade." Strong principles.

Who made the paygrade comment, Buttonftw?

IvaBigWun

Deleted User wrote: »

How much of the 9 grand profit goes on wages?

The 9 grand "profit" would be after all overheads, wages included

mikom

mikom wrote: »

Who made the paygrade comment, Buttonftw?

I'll let you know in a bit, 2 minutes of ads to get through on the feckin TV3 Player just to start the show.

IvaBigWun wrote: »

The 9 grand "profit" would be after all overheads, wages included

Sure about that? I would've thought it would include overheads of the scratchcard operation but not of the whole company.

SEPT 23 1989

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/former-fg-minister-rehab-was-always-close-to-enda-kennys-party-29940343.html

mikom

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/former-fg-minister-rehab-was-always-close-to-enda-kennys-party-29940343.html

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Endasack.jpg

mikom

mikom wrote: »

Who made the paygrade comment, Buttonftw?

Róisín Shortall. http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/41/-/1/ 17.30 onwards.

diomed

It wouldn't make sense to show a profit. Let's up the expenses a bit.

mikom

Deleted User wrote: »

Had to laugh at Vincent Brown last night, just caught a snippet and there was a one on saying "Sure everyone knew the CRC payments were being made" and he asked her 3 or 4 times if she knew until she admitted she did. He then asked why she didn't report it to Reilly or anyone and she said "Oh well it's above my paygrade." Strong principles.

mikom wrote: »

Who made the paygrade comment, Buttonftw?

Deleted User wrote: »

Róisín Shortall. http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/41/-/1/ 17.30 onwards.

TD paygrade €87,258
This was the same ass that was going to save Ireland by introducing minimum pricing on alcohol.............. paygrade excluded.

mikom

mikom wrote: »

TD paygrade €87,258
This was the same ass that was going to save Ireland by introducing minimum pricing on alcohol.............. paygrade excluded.

She was a Minister, few quid more. But, hey, not her problem. Now she's not in one of the main parties she can just keep taking potshots while laughing at her own past negligence.

Irish Steve

RTE are on the case, not heard it yet in terms of what they are saying, Nuacht is muted.

Maybe at last, some of the people at the top are getting the message that the rest of us despise their lack of action to deal with the cnuts that are ripping us all off and don't care about the consequences.

IvaBigWun

mikom wrote: »

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Endasack.jpg

When did Enda campaign with that?

ballsymchugh

Murt10 wrote: »

Brilliant this from Morning Ireland on RTE 1 on 6 Jan 2014. CEO Angela Kerins of Rehab refused to divulge her salary, bullsh****ing that Rehab was operating in a commercial environment.

Skip the first part, which is what she came on to be interviewed about, to 3.10 mins. She was rightly ambushed and full of bluster. RTE even deferred going over to the 8.30 am news, so that they could question her

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2014/0106/20499542-rehab-group-signs-contract-to-develop-employment-programmes-for-people-with-disabilities-in-saudi-arabia/

Hats off to RTE for the interview and also to the current edition of the Pheonix for highlighting it again

jaysis, she keeps saying renumeration instead of remuneration! only a small thing but you'd think a high falutin' CEO like herself would know the correct term for getting paid!

mikom

IvaBigWun wrote: »

When did Enda campaign with that?

2007.
Read the rest of them for a laugh.............

http://irishelectionliterature.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/endacrime07.jpg?w=1024&h=331

http://irishelectionliterature.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/endahealth07.jpg?w=1024&h=220


http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2013/11/07/ill-sack-the-wasters-of-taxpayers-money-and-other-enda-kenny-fine-gael-2007-general-election-ads/