your opinions on The whole broadband situation in ireland ?

sw33t_r3v3ng3

If ya ask me ireland has appaling internet, Not only internet but providers also. My current ISP is supposed to give me 8mb (id be happy with 6) however i get on a good day 1.5 mb . Whats yere opinion ? I think we should all sign a petition and send it to some TD's and take it from there. In my opinion ISP's should have to give customers at least half the speed advertised eg. (up to 8mb, The customer should get at least 4mb)

revver

someone suggested that we change the business model for internet access from speed to usage.

i.e. if we paid for what we used instead of how fast we can use it then ISP's would want to give us as much internet as possible to get more money.... at the moment we pay a flat rate of say 40euro per month and it doesn't matter how slow or much we download, the isp still gets 40euro per month.. so there's no incentive to give us more data...

what if we paid 50cent per gig of data instead? that way they would WANT us to download more and more, they would want to give it to us faster and faster... netflix? oh yes please...

thoughts?

ED E

revver wrote: »

someone suggested that we change the business model for internet access from speed to usage.

i.e. if we paid for what we used instead of how fast we can use it then ISP's would want to give us as much internet as possible to get more money.... at the moment we pay a flat rate of say 40euro per month and it doesn't matter how slow or much we download, the isp still gets 40euro per month.. so there's no incentive to give us more data...

what if we paid 50cent per gig of data instead? that way they would WANT us to download more and more, they would want to give it to us faster and faster... netflix? oh yes please...

thoughts?

That is literally the worst idea possible.

revver

because?

if we can't download something because it's too slow... then the ISP is loosing out of making money! think about it....

Saganist

revver wrote: »

someone suggested that we change the business model for internet access from speed to usage.

i.e. if we paid for what we used instead of how fast we can use it then ISP's would want to give us as much internet as possible to get more money.... at the moment we pay a flat rate of say 40euro per month and it doesn't matter how slow or much we download, the isp still gets 40euro per month.. so there's no incentive to give us more data...

what if we paid 50cent per gig of data instead? that way they would WANT us to download more and more, they would want to give it to us faster and faster... netflix? oh yes please...

thoughts?

Are you serious ?

If that was the case I'd be homeless. :pac:

shruikan2553

Having a minimum amount would be good. We should have shorter contracts too. It takes a few weeks to properly settle into a new broadband provider but by that point you are stuck with them for 12 months unless their service is completely crap. Contracts shouldnt last any longer than 3 months.

I find people expect better broadband than what is reasonable, the once off housing through out the country makes it very expensive to provide it. People cant live 10 mins from the nearest person while getting a good internet connection. 4g should help in theory but with the mobile companies I wouldnt get my hopes up.

Saganist

revver wrote: »

because?

if we can't download something because it's too slow... then the ISP is loosing out of making money! think about it....

I downloaded 363GB between dec 14th and Jan 13th

That's 181.5Eur for a months usage @ .50 per gig.

NIMAN

Ireland's problem is that some cities are getting 120meg BB while many others have to make do with with either 2meg landline or, even worse, a midband dongle that often gives dial-up speeds.

I am currently on 2.5meg landline BB. Its good enough for my purposes at present, but I think it will be quite a few years before I will ever see 120meg BB where I live.

revver

How on earth can you download that much??

If you look at almost all non "unlimited" data pakages they are around 30gb per month at 35-40euro. This works out at 1eu/mb!!

You my friend are obviously living the broadband dream of you can download that much stuff in one month! For the rest of us in non cable/fiber areas its actually impossible.

My speedtests tonight showed a whopping 200kbps when im paying for "up to" 6mbps.. at this speed can you tell me how long it would take to download 350gigs???

shruikan2553

revver wrote: »

How on earth can you download that much??

If you look at almost all non "unlimited" data pakages they are around 30gb per month at 35-40euro. This works out at 1eu/mb!!

You my friend are obviously living the broadband dream of you can download that much stuff in one month! For the rest of us in non cable/fiber areas its actually impossible.

My speedtests tonight showed a whopping 200kbps when im paying for "up to" 6mbps.. at this speed can you tell me how long it would take to download 350gigs???

170 days if my calculations are correct.

350x1024 to get mB, multiply again for kB, multiply by 8 for get it in kb and then divide by 200.

350GB is probably above average but it isnt that high. I can easily go through 100GB and thats by only streaming for 1 person.

RidleyRider

I think it's a disgrace anyway. I agree and disagree with the post about download usage. I agree because my internet is god awful and currently I'm getting .760mb download and you can only guess the upload speed. I disagree because of the enormity some peoples bills would be because they download do much. I'm not complaining about them- I would too if I could.

Providers in general don't help everyone. I can only get 3 wifi here that's bearable to use. I had vodafone but that wasn't fast enough to load google in less than a minute.

More should be done to provide for the masses.

IrelandOffline_

Well this is the purpose of IrelandOffine...

www.irelanoffline.org

or
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=60

The Narrator

There should be proper legislation in place stating that every house in the country should be able to get a certain (acceptable) broadband speed, with contracts awarded on that basis and penalties for companies not fulfilling those required speeds.

They have better broadband in the arse end of scandinavia than we have in many parts of this small island.

NIMAN

revver wrote: »

How on earth can you download that much??

If you look at almost all non "unlimited" data pakages they are around 30gb per month at 35-40euro. This works out at 1eu/mb!!

You my frie

Surely that should be €1 per gb?

Anyone who downloaded 350gig in a month should be popping up as someone who is doing illegal downloading. How else could you download so much?

Vico1612

NIMAN wrote: »

Surely that should be €1 per gb?

Anyone who downloaded 350gig in a month should be popping up as someone who is doing illegal downloading. How else could you download so much?

Why automatically assume that high usage = illegal ?
I've got fibre installed since Dec and my online usage has increased x3
How ?
I'm now doing Cloud backups [ Google Drive for my Chromebook / Amazon Cloud Drive ] , Netflix/ Vevo HD streaming , Legal downloads , Teleworking , Online Radio

Saganist

NIMAN wrote: »

Surely that should be €1 per gb?

Anyone who downloaded 350gig in a month should be popping up as someone who is doing illegal downloading. How else could you download so much?

Netflix streaming in two separate rooms and two children both with xbox 360 and ps4. It adds up pretty quickly.

Mr.Torrent

The Narrator wrote: »

There should be proper legislation in place stating that every house in the country should be able to get a certain (acceptable) broadband speed, with contracts awarded on that basis and penalties for companies not fulfilling those required speeds.

They have better broadband in the arse end of scandinavia than we have in many parts of this small island.

Very True. The whole "UP To ...." speed is a joke. They should be able to tell what are the average speeds for each area/ county. But they don't because it won't sell. As you said no legislation so they can do what they want.

I tried 3 different wireless broadbands and had to cancel them all. Speeds a joke. Had to go fixed in the end.

bk

The broadband situation in urban and suburban areas is pretty good and improving very quickly.

Roughly 1/3 of the population can get 200mb/s from UPC for pretty reasonable price which is equal to the best almost anywhere in Europe.

By the end of the year, Eircom plan on covering roughly 2/3 of the population with "upto" 100mb/s vectorized VDSL2.

ESB are planning on doing FTTH for the other 1/3 of the population in urban areas not served by UPC.

So that means over the next year or two, the 2/3 of the Irish population living in urban and semi-urban areas will have a choice of two very hiqh quality ISPs, either Eircom/UPC or Eircom/ESB.

For these people, this will be a very good situation, with very high quality, fast BB, IPTV services and lots of nice competition.

It is the other 1/3 of the population who live in rural Ireland that will continue to have a major problem. The problem is that so many people live in rural areas (compared to other EU countries) and they tend to live in one off houses strung along a road. I assume the OP is living somewhere rural.

This is a complete nightmare scenario for delivering broadband. BB is all about short distances and high density of homes. It is going to be VERY expensive to deliver good BB to rural Ireland.

In the short to medium term, Eircom seem to be planning to bring their VDSL eFibre to most villages and towns in Ireland. THat should help bring decent quality BB to those living within 1 or 2km of the town/village and hopefully this fibre will also be used to feed fixed wireless and LTE services to bring some decent BB to the surrounding countryside.

In the long term, the only solution will be to go Fibre To The Home (FTTH). But that is going to be VERY expensive to do, so I'm now convinced that the only way we will see this happen is if people in rural Ireland will be willing to pay for the extra cost of rolling out FTTH themselves.

The ESB might be perfectly placed to do this, once they complete rolling out FTTH in the urban areas. They will have built up a lot of experience and expertise in rolling out FTTH by then. And obviously they have a lot of experience in this sort of thing with the Electrification of Ireland over the last 40 years.

MBSnr

The marketing of fibre verses DSL offerings from Eircom (and Vodafone) is bizarre. I have an Eircom business DSL backup line with an unlimited download per month - no small print limiting it. It runs at approx 2mb so in effect we're never downloading much, if anything. If I got Eircom business fibre (which I can't BTW, seemingly due to their lack of interest and inability in pursuing the corporate market - we're on a business park 300m from an Eircom fibre cabinet FFS) then their usage policy limits me to 500Gb per month!! I've had many discussions with the Eircom account manager and the overall impression I got from him was he couldn't give a ....

Our company is pulling/pushing between 2 - 3 TB a month on a dedicated fibre network.....we are small headcount but deal with large data quantities. Eircom can provide many small businesses with decent download speeds but then they seemingly limit how much data they can use. Fine for a florist, solicitors or whatever, but there are also many SME businesses out there who could be tempted to move from an expensive dedicated fibre link (as we are) but cannot due to physical lack of fibre and/or Eircom's plainly stupid business offerings. Even if we could get fibre, why would we switch to a limited download offering? In fact why would any SME business like ours switch?

Hello Eircom.... are you listening? Thought not.

token56

There are two sides to the broadband situation in Ireland, urban/ suburban vs rural. I think the broadband situation in urban and suburban Ireland has improved significantly in recent times and is continuing to improve with Eircom rolling out VSDL to more and more towns.

There are valid complaints about the services people are being offered and what they are getting, e.g. 8 Mbs but only getting 5/6 Mbs. This is simply down to the technology being used by Eircom in delivering their services. Eircom predominately uses whats called fibre to the cabinet (FTTC), which means fibre optic cables only go as far as various cabinets dotted around towns throughout the country. The old copper telephone lines are then used to carry the signal from the cabinet to peoples homes. The problem with this is that copper is not great in terms of signal strength vs distance. This image below gives an idea of how throughput drops vs distance from the cabinet.



It is important to remember that this distance is not as the crow flies from the cabinet to the home either, it is the path the telephone line will take which normally follows roads increasing the distance. As a result unless you are within a couple hundred meters from the exchange it is unlikely you will get your advertised speed. This is something anyone using Eircom will just have to live with until the technology being used changes.

This is then what makes things so bad for rural areas. Rural Ireland is rather dispersed with a lot of road, and therefore long telephone lines connecting homes to towns where the cabinets are typically placed. This results is pretty crappy speeds for rural houses but its simply the physics of the technology being used. As bk says fibre to the home (FTTH) is probably the best option to get high speed wired internet to rural houses but this simply is not economically viable for any company to do. You have to keep mind in how much it would cost to role out such an extensive fibre network vs the potential revenue and it just simply wouldn't make sense. So I have sympathy for both the ISPs and the customers in this case. It is a difficult problem to solve.

One potential would be through the use of wireless broadband using for example LTE/LTE-A. With enough spectrum being available and through the use of carrier aggregation this can offer extremely high speeds, even over a decent enough distance (although a similar principle in throughput vs distance from the base stations applies, it is in fact worse than that with FTTC). The problem again is it is not going to be cost effective for mobile operators to roll this out to the areas that need it most, i.e. low density rural areas. Data caps and the price for data on mobile networks in Ireland is already ludicrous in my opinion and if things stayed as they are in this regard broadband for a home through something like LTE would also be ridiculously expensive. The other problem is the amount of spectrum that operators have been allocated is going to limit to potential of LTE. We are unlikely to see extremely fast speeds on LTE (> 100 Mbs) in this country for a long time.

Edit:
Just to say that someone getting an 8 Mbs service from Eircom wouldn't be using an EFibre service, therefore wouldn't be using FTTC. In fact an older technology is being used for that. This is what limits its top speed to around 8 Mbs, but the same principle in terms of drop off of throughput vs distance from the exchange/cabinet applies.

SteelyDanJalapeno

I pay about 32 a month for a 200 mb and average about 120mb speeds, I'm content.

revver

This is why we need fibre to the home, every home.

Interesting fact... there's a wire going to every home in the country, it's an ESB wire. If there was only some way we could wrap a fiber cable around this and back to a local exchange or something?

It's amazing that I see "hundreds" of workmen around my area installing water meters... it goes to show, if there's money to be made they will do it... why can't we just pay and get fiber installed next? If we did, I actually would be happy to pay for it too....

shane7218

Broadband in this country is nothing short of a disgrace. I pay over 100 a month for sat "broadband" that's horrific and is usually 1.5 mb/s or less. We need to invest in internet infrastructure in this country as its now just as important as electricity. Why cant this country get with the times and stop wasting 200 million on something like consultants and spend it on something that will guarantee more money for the country like robust internet infrastructure. That includes rural Ireland

hfallada

If you choose to live in the middle of no where in a one off housing unit. Why should consumers or the tax payer pay for your choice to live there? You can't expect to have excellent bb when the nearest village is 5 miles away. It would cost a fortune to give everyone bb.

shane7218

hfallada wrote: »

If you choose to live in the middle of no where in a one off housing unit. Why should consumers or the tax payer pay for your choice to live there? You can't expect to have excellent bb when the nearest village is 5 miles away. It would cost a fortune to give everyone bb.

You do realise that when people built house's in the country 20 years ago broadband didn't exist how were people to know that this problem would happen. Its expensive but in the long term its going to have to be done no question why not start now.

Nonoperational

It's very obviously a 2 tier system. It's generally decent in urban and suburban areas. Rurally it's poor.

SteelyDanJalapeno

shane7218 wrote: »

You do realise that when people built house's in the country 20 years ago broadband didn't exist how were people to know that this problem would happen. Its expensive but in the long term its going to have to be done no question why not start now.

Why do you think it's going to have to be done?

revver

How much does it actually cost to provide fiber to an exchange over the esb network in the country?
the main ESB fiber cable runs around 300 meters from my local exchange, but yet the exchange itself is wireless backhaul and can only support "up to 3mb" broadband AT THE EXCHANGE... so unless every exchange in the country is fiber enabled we're never going to get the last mile sorted either...

shane7218

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Why do you think it's going to have to be done?

The internet is getting more important every year. Its not sustainable for anyone to be stuck getting 1.5 mb/s in 3 years when everything is moving onto the internet e.g TV and other services and its an investment into the future

RidleyRider

hfallada wrote: »

If you choose to live in the middle of no where in a one off housing unit. Why should consumers or the tax payer pay for your choice to live there? You can't expect to have excellent bb when the nearest village is 5 miles away. It would cost a fortune to give everyone bb.

Yeah as a once off thing it would but it'd pay for itself in time!

revver

sure why bother having RTE transmitters and such like? These are expensive to run.
Everyone who lives in the city can get cable... so lets do away with those transmitters.

oh wait a minute! if they did that then they'd lose out on advertising REVENUE!

shane7218

I pay taxes like everyone else. I provide my own water,my own sewage system, and I still pay all the same taxes someone in a city pays. Why should I not be entitled to have basic access to such a vital resource considering I live 10 minutes outside a large town.

bk

shane7218 wrote: »

The internet is getting more important every year. Its not sustainable for anyone to be stuck getting 1.5 mb/s in 3 years when everything is moving onto the internet e.g TV and other services and its an investment into the future

But why should all the rest of us be expected to pay for your lifestyle choice?

You decided to live in the countryside and probably benefited from much lower rents/building and land costs/mortgage and now you are expecting the rest of us to pay for your broadband too?!

I'm sorry it just isn't going to happen, it will cost about €2.5 Billion to connect every home in Ireland to FTTH and the rest of the country won't stand for subsidising rural broadband. Realistically it just won't happen.

If people want decent quality broadband in rural areas, they are just going to have to pay for it themselves.

It is similar to the ESB, if you build a new home in rural Ireland, the ESB charge €2000 to connect to the electricity grid.

It would cost about €2000 to do FTTH per home too. The government could help out by offering low or interest free loans over 20 years to pay for it.

That would work out at about €10 per month extra for 20 years. So while people in urban areas would be getting BB for €40 per month, those who get FTTH would be paying about €50 per month. Personally I think that is very reasonable and I also think it is the most likely way that people in rural areas will get decent broadband.

The only pre-requisite I'd add, is any ISP making use of such loans, would be required to open up their FTTH network in those areas to other operators (e.g. like Bitstream on VDSL).

shane7218

bk wrote: »

But why should all the rest of us be expected to pay for your lifestyle choice?

You decided to live in the countryside and probably benefited from much lower rents/building and land costs/mortgage and now you are expecting the rest of us to pay for your broadband too?!

I'm sorry it just isn't going to happen, it will cost about €2.5 Billion to connect every home in Ireland to FTTH and the rest of the country won't stand for subsidising rural broadband. Realistically it just won't happen.

If people want decent quality broadband in rural areas, they are just going to have to pay for it themselves.

It is similar to the ESB, if you build a new home in rural Ireland, the ESB charge €2000 to connect to the electricity grid.

It would cost about €2000 to do FTTH per home too. The government could help out by offering low or interest free loans over 20 years to pay for it.

That would work out at about €10 per month extra for 20 years. So while people in urban areas would be getting BB for €40 per month, those who get FTTH would be paying about €50 per month. Personally I think that is very reasonable and I also think it is the most likely way that people in rural areas will get decent broadband.

The only pre-requisite I'd add, is any ISP making use of such loans, would be required to open up their FTTH network in those areas to other operators (e.g. like Bitstream on VDSL).

I already pay 133 euro a month and I never said I wanted fast broadband. I just want DECENT broadband and I would be happy to pay 2000 euro to connect my Business to a decent service but that's just not possible and am I not paying for your sewage and water when I pay all those taxes and don't use the services ?.

bk

revver wrote: »

sure why bother having RTE transmitters and such like? These are expensive to run.
Everyone who lives in the city can get cable... so lets do away with those transmitters.

oh wait a minute! if they did that then they'd lose out on advertising REVENUE!

Actually that is a perfect example. TV3 wasn't available in many areas as they weren't willing to pay to be carried on rural transmitters as the cost was more then the revenue it would bring in.

Companies will make this decision purely on if they make money or not, we can't expect them to do any different.

Many rural areas setup community deflector dish services to bring multi-channel TV to their areas.

I believe rural areas will have to do the same if they want decent BB. They will have to do it for themselves, rather then sitting around waiting for the government or some company to do it.

shane7218

bk wrote: »

Actually that is a perfect example. TV3 wasn't available in many areas as they weren't willing to pay to be carried on rural transmitters as the cost was more then the revenue it would bring in.

Companies will make this decision purely on if they make money or not, we can't expect them to do any different.

Many rural areas setup community deflector dish services to bring multi-channel TV to their areas.

I believe rural areas will have to do the same if they want decent BB. They will have to do it for themselves, rather then sitting around waiting for the government or some company to do it.

That is a terrible ignorant attitude. We are Citizens of the country just as much as you and our entitled for our government to provide basic services to us.

token56

This blog post might be helpful in explaining the current lack of interest in developing FTTH in many countries

http://ipcarrier.blogspot.ie/2012/04/why-fiber-to-home-costs-so-much.html

This report here also gives an idea of the costs of rolling out FTTH

http://www.ftthcouncil.eu/documents/Reports/Cost_Model_Report_Full_Version.pdf

It is done a Europe wide basis but on page 11 there are some graphs which give an idea around the costs required. I haven't read too much into the model they use for calculating cost but keep in mind there are likely assumptions made and additional cost that might be experienced by a single ISP.

bk

shane7218 wrote: »

I already pay 133 euro a month and I never said I wanted fast broadband. I just want DECENT broadband and I would be happy to pay 2000 euro to connect my Business to a decent service but that's just not possible and am I not paying for your sewage and water when I pay all those taxes and don't use the services ?.

The taxes argument is a really bad argument as rural Ireland is a net beneficiary of taxes. As in more tax money is spent in rural Ireland then in cities.

To put it in another way, if we changed the system so that 100% of tax stayed in each county that it was raised in. Then the amount of tax money available in Cork, Dublin, etc. would go up significantly, while the amount available in all the other counties would go down significantly.

You may not be paying for your water and sewage, but people in urban areas are paying for the massive road network in rural Ireland (one of the biggest per km in Europe!), your electricity, you existing phone services (one of the reasons we have the highest line rental in Europe is the large percentage of people living in rural Ireland), your schools, hospitals, etc.

However it sounds like you are willing to pay your fair share for decent broadband and that is great. I'm hopeful that when the ESB completes rolling out FTTH to the 500,000 homes in urban areas, that they will then turn their attention to rural Ireland.

But this isn't going to happen quickly, it is going to take many years to happen. If you want it to happen faster, then you need to maybe looking at doing something for yourself, organising a community BB scheme where you lay your own fibre like they are doing in the UK.

MBSnr

I'm lucky to get 6Mb in a rural location - it's congested but at least I have it. I do feel sorry for those on neighbouring exchanges, which serve a large number of people, but aren't DSL enabled.

Some of the exchanges near me are listed as being Node Reach Sites on the fibre backbone. So I'd imagine the work to run cabinets and power to the village, served by the exchange, is not a massive undertaking. However Eircom seems to have abandoned the rural exchanges to concentrate on fibre cabinets in cities. A fair enough decision (for now) as they need to generate revenue and that's the way to do it, in densely populated areas. I only hope that they revisit some of the rural exchanges on the fibre backbone and then push some VDSL cabinets out to the villages at least. Seems the logical thing to do anyhow a few yrs down the line...

bk

MBSnr wrote: »

I only hope that they revisit some of the rural exchanges on the fibre backbone and then push some VDSL cabinets out to the villages at least. Seems the logical thing to do anyhow a few yrs down the line...

That seems to be the plan, Eircom are now planning to connect 1.4 million premises to eFibre by December 2016. This would include a large number of rural villages.

token56

I think community broadband schemes are really the most viable option for rural areas at the moment.

The argument being made here is based on the view that broadband should be a universal right. This is certainly the way things are going and I have no problem with it. If such a view was for example to be enshrined into law then there would certainly be an obligation on them to do something about it. ~But even if its a view held at the moment the government are simply not in a position to significant subsidise something like FTTH around the country. I would say rightly so too, even if I agree that access to broadband should be a right, there are a huge amount of other fundamental services in this country I would rather see priority be given too in terms of capital investment, namely health and education.

So unless people who are in a significant disadvantage do something themselves we are depending on companies like Eircom to gives us the services we feel we deserve. But Eircom have to consider their own interest and profits come first for any company. In what is becoming a highly competitive market where demands and expectations are high in terms of what we should be getting and what we should be paying, I just can't imagine there is a high enough return on investment of delivering high quality broadband to rural areas.

Now certainly I am sure there are areas where there are relatively minor upgrades where Eircom could be improving their services but their focus is else because of the increasing competition.

It's also a bit unfair to compare Ireland like for like with other Western countries. In the England for example, the average population density is almost 7 times that of Ireland and a population around 13 times greater. If a company in England serviced just the greater London area (including metro) they have access to almost 4 times the population of Ireland. Now take into account servicing the rest of the major cities in England, a companies turnover will be significantly greater than any comparable in Ireland. Investing in the rural areas of England is not as difficult for such a company.

People need to realise that we are a country with a relatively small population, limited means by which our government can generate income, poor legacy investment, and a relatively difficult terrain for fixed line services. Things are improving but change is always going to be relatively slow in a country like Ireland.

The Narrator

TiltedBrain wrote: »

I pay about 32 a month for a 200 mb and average about 120mb speeds, I'm content.

Mind if I ask with who and where you are based?

Am paying about 35 a month myself for 50mb speed with UPC.

hfallada wrote: »

If you choose to live in the middle of no where in a one off housing unit. Why should consumers or the tax payer pay for your choice to live there? You can't expect to have excellent bb when the nearest village is 5 miles away. It would cost a fortune to give everyone bb.

Bit of a crazy attitude tbh.

You do realise that there are industries which require people to live outside of major cities?

Farming being a perfect example. Can't all live in the city, have iPhones and drink Starbucks every morning.
We'd go hungry pretty quickly..

token56

To be fair the service to towns around the country are being upgraded and I'm sure cabinets in rural areas will be upgraded too. It's the last mile problem that will continue to limit the service rural areas can get for the considerable future. Neither Eircom or any other company can change the laws or physics with regards the technology being used. If someone lives on a farm, in addition to the length of the main road there is likely going to be a drive up to the house, maybe only a couple of hundred meters, but that drive up alone can cause a significant degradation of their service.

If FTTH eventually gets rolled out, it will be the most populated areas first that will be upgraded, since they will provided the quickest and greater ROI. Rural areas are always going to lag behind more populated areas unless they something about it themselves.

bk

The Narrator wrote: »

You do realise that there are industries which require people to live outside of major cities?

Farming being a perfect example. Can't all live in the city, have iPhones and drink Starbucks every morning.
We'd go hungry pretty quickly..

Yes, both non of those industries require you to live in remote, one off houses.

If you look to mainland Europe, you will find that most people live in or very close to a village and then drive out to the farm.

For instance in France 90% of people live in cities, towns and villages. In Ireland the figure is only 65%, one of the lowest in Europe!

The problem isn't people living in the countryside, the problem is people living in remote, one off houses more then a km from a village.

shane7218

bk wrote: »

Yes, both non of those industries require you to live in remote, one off houses.

If you look to mainland Europe, you will find that most people live in or very close to a village and then drive out to the farm.

For instance in France 90% of people live in cities, towns and villages. In Ireland the figure is only 65%, one of the lowest in Europe!

The problem isn't people living in the countryside, the problem is people living in remote, one off houses more then a km from a village.

But this isn't main land Europe, its Ireland. Do you expect all of these farmers many of which have farm houses built on their land for years just move because of the country's lacking infrastructure.

ED E

The Narrator wrote: »

Bit of a crazy attitude tbh.

You do realise that there are industries which require people to live outside of major cities?

Farming being a perfect example. Can't all live in the city, have iPhones and drink Starbucks every morning.
We'd go hungry pretty quickly..

You're omitting the fact that famring here, especially dairy, is highly subsidized. Its not really needed. The stuff that is, well thats the job they're in. If you're an oil rig worker you gotta live in a box for months on end, a trucker you gotta be on the road for a week or so at a time. Farmers need to live rurally, thats the job. You cant expect all the same perks as an office job in the city.

If you live in the country and want to improve your service yourself (it wont be done for you), you have two options:

Community fibre scheme: http://gizmodo.com/5984187/british-farmers-install-their-own-1gbps-fiber-network-in-the-middle-of-nowhere

Mounted 3G box: Members of the midband forum have done it before, put a 3G modem in a weathersealed box, mount it on a 30ft high pole and point it at the mast.

Or just move. Cant have your cake and eat it.

unkel

ED E wrote: »

If you live in the country and want to improve your service yourself (it wont be done for you), you have two options:

Community fibre scheme: http://gizmodo.com/5984187/british-farmers-install-their-own-1gbps-fiber-network-in-the-middle-of-nowhere

Mounted 3G box: Members of the midband forum have done it before, put a 3G modem in a weathersealed box, mount it on a 30ft high pole and point it at the mast.

Or just move. Cant have your cake and eat it.

Third option: satellite broadband. Reasonable enough these days (about €50 per month for a reasonable package)

I had satellite broadband myself when there was no other broadband in Ireland ('00-'01)

shane7218

unkel wrote: »

Third option: satellite broadband. Reasonable enough these days (about €50 per month for a reasonable package)

I had satellite broadband myself when there was no other broadband in Ireland ('00-'01)

I have 20mb sat broadband and I will just say one thing ... Your better off on dial up

token56

shane7218 wrote: »

But this isn't main land Europe, its Ireland. Do you expect all of these farmers many of which have farm houses built on their land for years just move because of the country's lacking infrastructure.

Obviously they dont have to move, but we shouldn't have unrealistic expectations that each individual farm house in Ireland should have high quality broadband in an unrealistic time frame. Ireland is a rather unique country in many ways. We punch well above our weight in attracting top ICT companies who require very high quality broadband infrastructure on one side of the country. Yet have an extremely dispersed population the further you move away (obviously there are other cities in the west, but not to the scale of Dublin) making high quality infrastructure such as broadband less of a necessity and its delivery more difficult.

shane7218

token56 wrote: »

Obviously they dont have to move, but we shouldn't have unrealistic expectations that each individual farm house in Ireland should have high quality broadband in an unrealistic time frame. Ireland is a rather unique country in many ways. We punch well above our weight in attracting top ICT companies who require very high quality broadband infrastructure on one side of the country. Yet have an extremely dispersed population the further you move away (obviously there are other cities in the west, but not to the scale of Dublin) making high quality infrastructure such as broadband less of a necessity and its delivery more difficult.

Most rural household just want a BASIC broadband connection of 10mb which most houses have had for years.

Also if we had higher quality infrastructure in other parts of the country these companies could locate in other places besides Dublin creating more revenue in the local area.

MBSnr

Anyone know the rural living figure for NI, if the number of people here living in cities is only 65%? I realise they have 1.8m people in a smaller area but they must have faced similar rural issues to us down here. They have FTTC for over 80% of the population so I wonder how much of that 80% are in cities? I know BT's investment up there was heavily subsidised and it was used as a test bed for the rest of the UK rollout.