Announcement of Irish Champions Weekend

the groutch

HRI today announced they the Irish Champion Stakes at Leopardstown and the Irish Leger at The Curragh will be run on the same weekend, creating a 10 group race double-header.

http://www.irishracing.com/news?prid=74283&headline=Ammendments-to-Irish-Flat-programme

looks a good idea imo, both from a tourism perspective, and is more likely to attract English entries as it's more viable for trainers to send a few over at once.

nuckeythompson

A good idea for who? It will not cater for the average punter. I think HRI have marketed towards the richer clientle over the recent years. That will be a very expensive weekend for the average punter who has a genuine interest in racing.
One thing I hate about these bigger meetings is the type of crowd at them. Best dressed lady etc which aims the meeting towards a certain type of crowd. I can assure you this crowd has little interest in whats happening on the track and more interested in the goings on in the bar. 2 EUR e/w bets on the tote punters.
It might interest some tourists buts its fair to say not a huge amount of people come over from the likes of the UK unless they are connections of runners.
HRI needs to cater for the average punter who has a decent bet on the tote (their bread and butter) and will have a few pints at the races. These are the guys who will happily take the luas to leopardstown , bus eireann coach to the curragh or fairyhouse and will do on a regular basis when he knows that this game is not just for the elitist but for everyman

Cop on HRI

kiers47

The idea is to get more people interested in the sport. Big weekends like this make and help this happen. A person who has €2 e/w on a race has as much of an impact into racing as someone who places €xxx. How do you know that that €2e/w punter does not follow racing around the country and just throws the odd bet on just for the craic. They paid for their ticket which is helping the racetrack and HRI. Their is so much wrong with that statement above it is hard to address.
It is comments and narrow minded ideas like this that is the reason why the sport is struggling. Bottom line is HRI need to think outside the box to attract people to become interested in the game. These kind of ideas are always welcome.

nuckeythompson

HRI rely on tote betting for the racing industry in this country, i just wish they would promote it more as it might be a better option if we had bigger pools.


I worked in leopardstown for a few months and in my experience days like this attract coporate crowd therefore people have not paid for their ticket and are out on a jolly which are unlikely to attend another meeting when buying a ticket for myself. Ive been guilty with Rugby games, going to them with work or on a corporate level. ends up me and a select few others skulling pints watching a tv or talking. basically no interest in the game just the booze. I have not attended a game since.

Leopardstown have said the summer bbq nights have brought in new blood to the sport but in recent years have struggled to attract desired acts.
Student days = complete disaster

Just an intersting point - a survey i remember taken a couple of years ago regarding racing in ireland. one thing most people who said the reason they never went to the races was they did not understand it and some felt intimidated to the sport.

BumperD

The US has the breeders cup, France arc w/e, uk champions day , I guess it was inevitable we would try to fit in an end of season highlight to try to match.

bellybuster12

nuckeythompson wrote: »

A good idea for who? It will not cater for the average punter. I think HRI have marketed towards the richer clientle over the recent years. That will be a very expensive weekend for the average punter who has a genuine interest in racing.
One thing I hate about these bigger meetings is the type of crowd at them. Best dressed lady etc which aims the meeting towards a certain type of crowd. I can assure you this crowd has little interest in whats happening on the track and more interested in the goings on in the bar. 2 EUR e/w bets on the tote punters.
It might interest some tourists buts its fair to say not a huge amount of people come over from the likes of the UK unless they are connections of runners.
HRI needs to cater for the average punter who has a decent bet on the tote (their bread and butter) and will have a few pints at the races. These are the guys who will happily take the luas to leopardstown , bus eireann coach to the curragh or fairyhouse and will do on a regular basis when he knows that this game is not just for the elitist but for everyman

Cop on HRI

Too much fail in this post, that is all

The Mig

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A10317611%3A4502%3A01%2D09%2D2014%3A

Ted Walsh and Johnny Murtagh talking about Irish Champions Weekend on John Murray this morning.

Skip to 28 minutes for it!

convert

nuckeythompson wrote: »

H

I worked in leopardstown for a few months and in my experience days like this attract coporate crowd therefore people have not paid for their ticket and are out on a jolly which are unlikely to attend another meeting when buying a ticket for myself. Ive been guilty with Rugby games, going to them with work or on a corporate level. ends up me and a select few others skulling pints watching a tv or talking. basically no interest in the game just the booze. I have not attended a game since.
.

You've made a really good point here. I've a few friends over from abroad at Champions weekend, and have suggested that we go to the races (I really want to see Australia, having missed him at the Curragh). Their immediate response was that they wouldn't be able to go because racing was 'too expensive'. That was their perception, and they felt they wouldn't be able to enjoy the day without spending shed loads of cash. A lot of people feel the same, and have been told that you're not really 'at' the races unless you're sitting in all day enjoying a 4 course dinner that someone else paid for. And when sponsors do give out loads of free tickets, you can see the swell in the attendance. A lot of people expect to get the free tickets, and won't go racing if they have to pay in. The horses mean nothing to them. I remember at Punchestown saying to someone I had to rush because I wanted to see Annie Power... They thought I was talking about some model or someone famous! :rolleyes:

Huntthe

I agree with you and Nucky. It is symptomatic of the problem with racing in the Uk and Ireland . Basically it has no common appeal. it is stereotyped as an elite sport amongst the general public and there are about 10 leisure activities on the average joes list ahead of racing where he will spend his spare cash. When you have an industry that is heavily dependent on about 3 main sponsors ,the Quataris , Dubai and Coolmore this is a very precarious position. I haven't even mentioned the farcical situation where bookies are not taxed for the product they use.The only way racing can go forward is to adopt the French , Aussie and Japanese model where betting is run and owned by the racing industry. if this happens horse racing would be forced to market itself in a more mainstream and non elitist way. There is no will to do so unfortunately.

the groutch

Huntthe wrote: »

I haven't even mentioned the farcical situation where bookies are not taxed for the product they use.

just so you know there is a 1% betting tax for bets in shops, just bookies made the decision to absorb it, and it brought in €27m for the government last year.
and they are still trying to put together the required legislation to extend that to all online betting where the punter is resident in Ireland.

nuckeythompson

bellybuster12 wrote: »

Too much fail in this post, that is all

Maybe you should apply for a job in HRI

nuckeythompson

As said above some people feel it elitest. Best dressed lasy etc does not help the image. A girl wont go to the races unless she has something outstanding to wear and a hat to top it off. Ill be there and the most Ill do is iron a short.
Also media does not help with jargon which always has been a problem with encouraging new racegoers. Then another problem is that its very hard to speak out against anything in Irish racing and its very difficult to criticise it within the written media. Id rather have a 4 course meal on any other night bar a days racing as I would feel it would get in the way of why I am there.
Thay are missing the point of what the new type of punter is and how to attract them. No value for money betting on course whatsoever. I have mine done before I hit the track. Champions weekend will be very good racing and I really think Leopardstown should open the gates for free and simplify the racecard for the uninitiated and it will encourage them to use the TOTE which irish racing needs

FIVE2_THREE

Huntthe wrote: »

I agree with you and Nucky. It is symptomatic of the problem with racing in the Uk and Ireland . Basically it has no common appeal. it is stereotyped as an elite sport amongst the general public and there are about 10 leisure activities on the average joes list ahead of racing where he will spend his spare cash. When you have an industry that is heavily dependent on about 3 main sponsors ,the Quataris , Dubai and Coolmore this is a very precarious position. I haven't even mentioned the farcical situation where bookies are not taxed for the product they use.The only way racing can go forward is to adopt the French , Aussie and Japanese model where betting is run and owned by the racing industry. if this happens horse racing would be forced to market itself in a more mainstream and non elitist way. There is no will to do so unfortunately.

I don't think you want to see the Japanese model applied here. If you think Coolmore and the others are in a golden seat than what do you think of the Sunday racing company,Symboli stud and Hanzawa's ? they have held a firm grip on Japaneses racing since the 60's just as the Aga Khans have controlled French racing since the 30's.

Huntthe

I know I should have said properly taxed. Ideally I would have the bookies forced to sell horse racing to the racing authority .All revenue would than be controlled by racing like other successful racing jurisdictions.

Huntthe

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I don't think you want to see the Japanese model applied here. If you think Coolmore and the others are in a golden seat than what do you think of the Sunday racing company,Symboli stud and Hanzawa's ? they have held a firm grip on Japaneses racing since the 60's just as the Aga Khans have controlled French racing since the 30's.

It is the creation of a stable financial future for racing that I want to see. Not the entire Japanese protectionist model. Racing would than no longer be beholding to certain parties.

FIVE2_THREE

Huntthe wrote: »

It is the creation of a stable financial future for racing that I want to see. Not the entire Japanese protectionist model. Racing would than no longer be beholding to certain parties.

I myself would prefer to stay where we are. I like the current sponsor ship model in place where corporation's can sponsor races. Take a look at France they are Industry owned. outside of ARC weekend racing in France has become irrelevant. they cut their Derby down in distance and they do a terrible job of promoting racing.

nuckeythompson

Bookmakers have ruined Irish Racing, i think a TOTE model would encourage more people on track and also the money going back into the sport.

Another reason is better explained on the below link

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/archive/news/ban-bookies-says-cummings/story-e6frg6of-1111117208554?nk=e9c5a35969beb3d3c0a4df8f7f4dba1d

nuckeythompson

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I myself would prefer to stay where we are. I like the current sponsor ship model in place where corporation's can sponsor races. Take a look at France they are Industry owned. outside of ARC weekend racing in France has become irrelevant. they cut their Derby down in distance and they do a terrible job of promoting racing.

Yeah, sure what are the French actually good at? Going on strike maybe

convert

nuckeythompson wrote: »

d simplify the racecard for the uninitiated and it will encourage them to use the TOTE which irish racing needs

I completely agree with this. I was at the Curragh the day of the lashing rain (inside and out) and I found their card an absolute disaster. There was far too much text and it was extremely badly laid out. And that's coming from a seasoned racegoer - newbies wouldn't stand a chance. Give me a NH race card any day. At least I can explain that to non-racing people....

Agree with the statement re. best dressed ladies competitions, too. There's nothing worse than walking into the enclosure and having young wans running up to the girls beside you to encourage them to enter the comp, only to ignore you because you're actually suitably attired for the day's racing, complete with a nice coat and umbrella in hand.

bellybuster12

nuckeythompson wrote: »

Maybe you should apply for a job in HRI

I'm good thanks.

What people seem to be missing here is that they are creating a champions weekend in Ireland(like other countrys have) for top class flat racing. Ireland is a leading player in the racing industry so why would they not have such thing.

This does not mean that the average joe can't go and enjoy it, it's around E30 entry(no different to punchestown) to see some of the top horses in europe, 4 course meals etc are optional.

This is one of the best things to happen to the flat calender in a long time and i hope it's a huge success.

bellybuster12

convert wrote: »

I completely agree with this. I was at the Curragh the day of the lashing rain (inside and out) and I found their card an absolute disaster. There was far too much text and it was extremely badly laid out. And that's coming from a seasoned racegoer - newbies wouldn't stand a chance. Give me a NH race card any day. At least I can explain that to non-racing people....

Agree with the statement re. best dressed ladies competitions, too. There's nothing worse than walking into the enclosure and having young wans running up to the girls beside you to encourage them to enter the comp, only to ignore you because you're actually suitably attired for the day's racing, complete with a nice coat and umbrella in hand.

Agree with this, was there myself that day. The card was awful.

Huntthe

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I myself would prefer to stay where we are. I like the current sponsor ship model in place where corporation's can sponsor races. Take a look at France they are Industry owned. outside of ARC weekend racing in France has become irrelevant. they cut their Derby down in distance and they do a terrible job of promoting racing.

it is a model that can go tits up at any stage.French racing is loaded and it doesn't preclude sponsorship it's just not reliant on it so it's not be holding to it. I have nothing in particular against ICW. I'll be there both days.

diomed

I have a Curragh season ticket. At my first visit this year I left after one race. At my second visit I watched three or four races and left. I haven’t attended since. It was a boring experience.

The first thing I noticed at The Curragh was a green growth on the underside of the white racing rails. An hour or two with a scrubbing brush could have removed this unsightly negative advertisement of racing headquarters.
Another problem I have with The Curragh is that the area opposite the stands at the winning post is starting to look like a junk yard. Do we need large area of tarmac with fences, parked vehicles and other junk.

The back of the stands at The Curragh
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.16845,-6.844157,3a,75y,3.66h,79.27t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1ssW8JRl1UUtoGwDXzHuVYhw!2e0

At Newmarket they have this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cYUK2ugQJA8/T0vDX1i0PfI/AAAAAAAAABI/6eAhEcrCUtE/s1600/P1000074.JPG
I know about metal thieves. You can protest things if bothered.
At The Curragh we have this: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.16628,-6.837698,3a,75y,29.04h,94.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sak_K9X1qLKJIzIM3ZYTcAg!2e0
Is it a sculpture, or is it some piece of horse equipment? It is an eyesore.

The betting margins of around 30% charged by the Tote and the bookmakers are too much. Why pay 30% when you can pay 5%.
The public know this. The racing industry must address this or they will not prosper.

Positives at other racecourses:
Belmont Park 1969: a very large (40 yards long) infield electronic Tote board with odds changing constantly; Tote windows at the back of the stand seating that could be reached within ten seconds.
Doncaster 1997: racecourse radio. Bring your mini radio and earphones and listen to comments, tips, and interviews for about five hours.
Epsom: a village of tents/stalls selling books, prints, souvenirs, food, snacks, champagne.

What to do?
Do we have a course inspector that visits and reports centrally and to the course on problems and eyesores that need fixing? I’m not talking about grass and fences.
Perhaps we need an architect or designer to improve the look of places.

Do we have a meeting organiser / overseer who prepares courses for meetings to ensure a consistent experience for racegoers? Or does each course muddle along as they always have? My idea is someone like a poker tournament promoter / director to runs things.

nuckeythompson

diomed wrote: »

I have a Curragh season ticket. At my first visit this year I left after one race. At my second visit I watched three or four races and left. I haven’t attended since. It was a boring experience.

The first thing I noticed at The Curragh was a green growth on the underside of the white racing rails. An hour or two with a scrubbing brush could have removed this unsightly negative advertisement of racing headquarters.
Another problem I have with The Curragh is that the area opposite the stands at the winning post is starting to look like a junk yard. Do we need large area of tarmac with fences, parked vehicles and other junk.

The back of the stands at The Curragh
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.16845,-6.844157,3a,75y,3.66h,79.27t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1ssW8JRl1UUtoGwDXzHuVYhw!2e0

At Newmarket they have this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cYUK2ugQJA8/T0vDX1i0PfI/AAAAAAAAABI/6eAhEcrCUtE/s1600/P1000074.JPG
I know about metal thieves. You can protest things if bothered.
At The Curragh we have this: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.16628,-6.837698,3a,75y,29.04h,94.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sak_K9X1qLKJIzIM3ZYTcAg!2e0
Is it a sculpture, or is it some piece of horse equipment? It is an eyesore.

The betting margins of around 30% charged by the Tote and the bookmakers are too much. Why pay 30% when you can pay 5%.
The public know this. The racing industry must address this or they will not prosper.

Positives at other racecourses:
Belmont Park 1969: a very large (40 yards long) infield electronic Tote board with odds changing constantly; Tote windows at the back of the stand seating that could be reached within ten seconds.
Doncaster 1997: racecourse radio. Bring your mini radio and earphones and listen to comments, tips, and interviews for about five hours.
Epsom: a village of tents/stalls selling books, prints, souvenirs, food, snacks, champagne.

What to do?
Do we have a course inspector that visits and reports centrally and to the course on problems and eyesores that need fixing? I’m not talking about grass and fences.
Perhaps we need an architect or designer to improve the look of places.

Do we have a meeting organiser / overseer who prepares courses for meetings to ensure a consistent experience for racegoers? Or does each course muddle along as they always have? My idea is someone like a poker tournament promoter / director to runs things.

New independant blood in Irish racing? A long time before we see that with nepotism and jobs for the boys culture rampant in this country

Bateman

Irish people are not into sport, generally speaking they are event junkies who don’t want the hassle of actually “supporting” any sport unless it involves the pub or a very hassle-free handful of events a year in a nice clean covered seat.

You can forget about the Irish public suddenly getting behind racing anytime soon. It could be the Irish rugby team doing well, or it could be Garth Brooks. Just a bit of craic. As for actually “supporting” something month-in, month-out, forget about it.

byronbay2

diomed wrote: »

At The Curragh we have this: https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.16628,-6.837698,3a,75y,29.04h,94.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sak_K9X1qLKJIzIM3ZYTcAg!2e0
Is it a sculpture, or is it some piece of horse equipment? It is an eyesore.

Ah yes! I believe this piece is titled "The inconsequence of specificity to the equine mentality" (painted steel tubing, 2007). Cost HRI €285K at Sothebys in 2011. A wonderful addition to their collection!

bellybuster12

Students with vailid ID go free both days.

DylanAFC

bellybuster12 wrote: »

Students with vailid ID go free both days.

Great stuff. Might go both days now.

nuckeythompson

bellybuster12 wrote: »

Students with vailid ID go free both days.

Great stuff

Andalucia

hope it doesn't end up like the Limerick student race-day earlier in the year - Joe Duffy will get a few days out of it it does!

should be a great two days racing even if its not over obstacles

O'Brien should have a bonanza over the two days - entries are available already - the handicap that kicks off the Lep card over 1m6f could be a cracker if some of the big entrants do battle, there's a handicap blot entered also, but no point flagging it until declarations are out.

DylanAFC

Wonder will any of the big UK jockeys like Hughes and Moore make an appearance. Probably not because there's only a few winners between them for the UK Champion Jockey.

Harry Angstrom

DylanAFC wrote: »

Wonder will any of the big UK jockeys like Hughes and Moore make an appearance. Probably not because there's only a few winners between them for the UK Champion Jockey.

Integral could be going for the Matron on Saturday. If that's the case, then Ryan Moore will almost certainly be at Leopardstown.

DylanAFC

Which day do ye think has the better racecard?

kfallon

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Integral could be going for the Matron on Saturday. If that's the case, then Ryan Moore will almost certainly be at Leopardstown.

I think Teddy Grimthorpe was saying yesterday that Moore would ride whichever of Stoute's that James Doyle doesn't ride in the Leger! Will probably ride O'Brien's runner in the Champagne stakes too.

Hughes has nothing to come over for, has he? Sky Lantern isn't even entered in the Matron.

Harry Angstrom

kfallon wrote: »

I think Teddy Grimthorpe was saying yesterday that Moore would ride whichever of Stoute's that James Doyle doesn't ride in the Leger! Will probably ride O'Brien's runner in the Champagne stakes too.

Hughes has nothing to come over for, has he? Sky Lantern isn't even entered in the Matron.

Integral taken out of Matron.

famagusta

Got an email from paddy power for free tickets for the saturday or sunday, first come first served. good job

kfallon

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Integral taken out of Matron.

Word is Moore will be over to ride The Great Gatsby, prob get a chopper over after the Leger!