Hendry V O'sullivan- Whos the greatest?

stpaddy99

loving this thread still
its a monumental battle isnt it
centuries are close
maximums are close
hendry 2.5 million ahead on prize money
11 titles ahead on rankings
a further 13 ahead on non rankings
(so 24 titles ahead overall)
2 ahead world titles

so hard to compare because hendry is the consistent one over the career and won more
ronnie has played less but his record is amazing and being hes 5 years younger his era is that bit harder

natural talent both geniuses, ronnie edges talent wise

career wise
I still say ronnie O to needs to win 2 more worlds and a few more ranking tournaments to really be considered as hendrys equal or better

Duggie2012

there is no debate really, ronnie is the greatest most naturally gifted player ever to play the game or more than likely ever will play the game. dosen't really matter if hendry has won more titles, o'sullivan is the greatest player ever. end of.

tomdempsey200

Duggie2012 wrote: »

there is no debate really, ronnie is the greatest most naturally gifted player ever to play the game or more than likely ever will play the game. dosen't really matter if hendry has won more titles, o'sullivan is the greatest player ever. end of.

i often wondered if some better genius would come out of china

hasn't happened yet anyhow

stpaddy99

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

i often wondered if some better genius would come out of china

hasn't happened yet anyhow

ding has done far better than id realised though, hes got a heck of a record and 360 centuries puts him near the top 5 centuries of all time
11 ranking wins but nearly all abroad and as we saw today so often he doesnt deliver in the UK? strange , maybe its jet lag

Pighead

stpaddy99 wrote: »

11 ranking wins but nearly all abroad and as we saw today so often he doesnt deliver in the UK? strange , maybe its jet lag

He actually lives in Sheffield so he definitely can't be using jet lag as an excuse for the World Championships!

The Golden Miller

Mark Williams form, circa 2003, was unstoppable. I think for that season he hit a level no other player before him or since has hit. At his peak, especially around that period, I'd have backed him to beat Hendry and O'Sullivan at their peak any day of the week. Since it's been 11 years, I think some people forget the player he was during that period. Unstoppable, some of his pots defied logic. His potting consistency was unnerving, an for that reason I genuinely don't believe and on form O'Sullivan at his peak could live with an on form Williams at his peak. Same with Hendry

Permabear

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Nuts102

Permabear wrote: »

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What exactly is your definition of underperforming. By the time he was 21 he won two UK championships. Won and been runner up in the Masters. In total tournaments reached 17 finals and won 11 tournaments. He was unbelievable at a young age.

Permabear

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Bruthal

Nuts102 wrote: »

What exactly is your definition of underperforming. By the time he was 21 he won two UK championships. Won and been runner up in the Masters. In total tournaments reached 17 finals and won 11 tournaments. He was unbelievable at a young age.

He still possibly underachieved though, simply because of the ability he has. Especially up to 2 years ago.

Bruthal

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Mark Williams form, circa 2003, was unstoppable. I think for that season he hit a level no other player before him or since has hit. At his peak, especially around that period, I'd have backed him to beat Hendry and O'Sullivan at their peak any day of the week. Since it's been 11 years, I think some people forget the player he was during that period. Unstoppable, some of his pots defied logic. His potting consistency was unnerving, an for that reason I genuinely don't believe and on form O'Sullivan at his peak could live with an on form Williams at his peak. Same with Hendry

Williams played o sullivan 39 times, and won 9 of them. A slight suggestion there that your post is a bit biased for some reason.

The Golden Miller

Bruthal wrote: »

Williams played o sullivan 39 times, and won 9 of them. A slight suggestion there that your post is a bit biased for some reason.

Nearly all of the defeats coming in recent years when he stopped practising and dropped way down the rankings from the mid-2000's onwards when he was never the same player as anyone could tell you, or before 2000

Permabear

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The Golden Miller

Permabear wrote: »

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I said in recent years, and also before 2000, and your link back's up what I am saying. 7 of their first 8 meetings before 2000 O'Sullivan won, and thereafter it was pretty even until 2003. From 2005 onwards it was all O'Sullivan, while Mark Williams form dropped considerably going into 04/05. I just feel at his peak over this period, he hit a level not seen before or since. O'Sullivan and Higgins only started to dominate in recent years where all the big names of that period dropped off, got too old and practiced less.

Permabear

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The Golden Miller

Permabear wrote: »

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Mark Williams was in 3 finals in 5 years and won a triple crown in one year, half a decade at the top. In matchplay, anyone can beat anyone on any given day, and they were evenly matched, but Mark Williams was performing at a level far above O'Sullivan consistently over this period. For me, he hit a level I've never seen before or since, but stated himself he stopped practising seriously around 04/05. On his day Williams was unbeatable for me over this period. He just didn't miss. It's just my opinion, the general consensus doesn't agree to this I'm aware.

O'Sullivan has only dominated recently in the sport, where there's currently a death of talent. Higgins picked up a few handy one's too

Permabear

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The Golden Miller

Permabear wrote: »

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I'm aware he lost. I never said otherwise. Just the fact that this was a thread about the greatest ever, I just feel the best I ever seen was Williams during that era at his peak.

On O'Sullivan, I don't think he's got particularly stronger, I think it's more down to the fact the talent is so far a few between these days, he's now able to canter to titles. As I said, Higgins picked up 3 handy enough ones too

Pighead

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Mark Williams was in 3 finals in 5 years and won a triple crown in one year, half a decade at the top. In matchplay, anyone can beat anyone on any given day, and they were evenly matched, but Mark Williams was performing at a level far above O'Sullivan consistently over this period. For me, he hit a level I've never seen before or since, but stated himself he stopped practising seriously around 04/05. On his day Williams was unbeatable for me over this period. He just didn't miss. It's just my opinion, the general consensus doesn't agree to this I'm aware.

O'Sullivan has only dominated recently in the sport, where there's currently a death of talent. Higgins picked up a few handy one's too

In fairness you could argue Williams won a fairly handy one in 2003. Also you say Williams was performing consistently better than O'Sullivan during his peak years yet Ronnie comes out on top in the head to head between the two.

Nuts102

Williams get's overlooked when people talk about the greatest players he definitely imo is one of the best of all time. I loved watching when i was younger. Always surprised he never get's mentioned but just drops short of Hendry and Ronnie for me.

The Golden Miller

Pighead wrote: »

In fairness you could argue Williams won a fairly handy one in 2003. Also you say Williams was performing consistently better than O'Sullivan during his peak years yet Ronnie comes out on top in the head to head between the two.

Head to head during Williams peak years?

The Golden Miller

Nuts102 wrote: »

Williams get's overlooked when people talk about the greatest players he definitely imo is one of the best of all time. I loved watching when i was younger. Always surprised he never get's mentioned but just drops short of Hendry and Ronnie for me.

It's because he stopped practising seriously to spend more time with his family. Had he kept going, it would be him chasing Hendry's seven I reckon, especially with what's on show at the moment

Permabear

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Pighead

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Head to head during Williams peak years?

Yes.

forgetfull_sam

never liked hendry at all but the man had nerves of steel and i believe he had a better all round game than sullivan

irs

I thought this years tournament was a great chance for Ronnie to show he is the best ever. His previous World Title wins have come over the likes of Dott, Carter and Hawkins who aren't really legends. The win over Higgins in 2001 was the only time he had a World Final against someone who was wasn't a surprise finalist and who was seen as being on his level. A big win over a Selby or a Robertson (although he did beat him in a QF) was something he's missed the last few times he won it. His Crucible record against Hendry, Higgins & Selby is a big mark against him.

walshb

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Mark Williams form, circa 2003, was unstoppable. I think for that season he hit a level no other player before him or since has hit. At his peak, especially around that period, I'd have backed him to beat Hendry and O'Sullivan at their peak any day of the week. Since it's been 11 years, I think some people forget the player he was during that period. Unstoppable, some of his pots defied logic. His potting consistency was unnerving, an for that reason I genuinely don't believe and on form O'Sullivan at his peak could live with an on form Williams at his peak. Same with Hendry

That season was one of the greatest in snooker history.

stpaddy99

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Mark Williams form, circa 2003, was unstoppable. I think for that season he hit a level no other player before him or since has hit. At his peak, especially around that period, I'd have backed him to beat Hendry and O'Sullivan at their peak any day of the week. Since it's been 11 years, I think some people forget the player he was during that period. Unstoppable, some of his pots defied logic. His potting consistency was unnerving, an for that reason I genuinely don't believe and on form O'Sullivan at his peak could live with an on form Williams at his peak. Same with Hendry

good post. williams was the best long ball potter of all time, no argument. he got over 300 centuries but wasnt interested in centuries , hed usually play a daft shot whne the frame was won to save energy . 18 major rankings wins., double world champion.. great player. not as consistent as hendry and not as long lasting but his quality and temperament at that time was awesome.

stpaddy99

ronnie blew his chance to become GOAT. he will have to settle for 2nd or third now.

stpaddy99

selby may become a dominant force now that hes broken his duck. he was utterly ruthless is demolishing ronnie yesterday