Prepay power in a rented house ?

Big Davey

As my Tenant has left with no forwarding address and I now have to set up an electric supply and gas supply in my name for the Two or three weeks I should have the property in my name it got me thinking of pre pay power. Would tenants be happy with this system ? Would it put professional types off ? Does a similar system exists for gas ?
Thanks

The_Morrigan

It's a more expensive option to be honest. I wouldn't want it if I was a tenant.

Gas providers do have the option if you are in arrears only.

Big Davey

The_Morrigan wrote: »

It's a more expensive option to be honest. I wouldn't want it if I was a tenant.

Gas providers do have the option if you are in arrears only.

Ok thanks

knarkypants

I wouldn't go with Pre Pay Power as they charge a daily charge for renting their equipment on top of paying for the electricity and standing charges. It works out at over €130 a year extra.

You can get a Pay as You Go gas meter put in at a charge of approx €110 or if your in arrears I think they might do it for free. There's no other extra "rental" charges for having it once it's in but you don't get to avail of any discounts.

I'm with Electric Ireland and I got the gas one put in a few months ago (it's called PAYG Choice) and I think it's great. I paid the installation fee for it. No big bills coming in the door. I asked for one for the electricity but they said I need to be in arrears to get one. A bit silly imo.

I'm not sure how a tenant would feel about it as they don't have a choice of moving to other providers that would offer discounts.

billie1b

I have prepay power, im a renter, my bill with prepay is averaging €50 per 2 months cheaper, cant go wrong with it in my opinion

mrsbyrne

If I were a tenant looking for a home I would be delighted with prepay.

snubbleste

Why would people be happier to pay more for a basic utility service

Prepay is really only for those who are unable to manage money imho.

The_Morrigan

OP Bonkers.ie had a blog post on prepay options last year: http://www.bonkers.ie/blog/could-you-save-money-with-an-electricity-prepayment-meter-/

billie1b

snubbleste wrote: »

Why would people be happier to pay more for a basic utility service

Prepay is really only for those who are unable to manage money imho.

I can manage my money perfectly well, I know a lot of people with prepay power and their bi-monthly bill is cheaper, as is mine. My bill with Electric Ireland used to average €250, with prepay I top up by €100 per month and have money left over on it the next month when topping up again. Thats with 2 adults and 4 kids in the house, tv's on all day, xbox's and so on

L1011

One of the two suppliers is now charging a surcharge on the EI "Standard Rates" (that nobody should be paying, as even EI offer multiple cheaper rates) as well as their massive standing charge.

There is absolutely no way your bill can be cheaper unless you were absolutely wanton with power consumption beforehand and reigned it in after changing - its not actually possible otherwise. Cheaper to buy a few socket power meters and go around the house with them.

It would put me off hugely from renting somewhere.

the world wonders

Big Davey wrote: »

Would it put professional types off ?

As a professional tenant I would definitely be put off and I would insist that the landlord revert to a proper power supply at their own expense. No way I'm going to pay extra for electricity.

billie1b

MYOB wrote: »

One of the two suppliers is now charging a surcharge on the EI "Standard Rates" (that nobody should be paying, as even EI offer multiple cheaper rates) as well as their massive standing charge.

There is absolutely no way your bill can be cheaper unless you were absolutely wanton with power consumption beforehand and reigned it in after changing - its not actually possible otherwise. Cheaper to buy a few socket power meters and go around the house with them.

It would put me off hugely from renting somewhere.

Your telling me theres no way it can be cheaper, I know its cheaper, i'm paying the bleedin bills, my sister has Electric Ireland with 2 adults and 3 kids and her bills are always more expensive on the lowest rate than what I spend. You can say and believe til the cows come home that you think its more expensive but I know it isn't as I use it

The_Morrigan

billie1b wrote: »

Your telling me theres no way it can be cheaper, I know its cheaper, i'm paying the bleedin bills, my sister has Electric Ireland with 2 adults and 3 kids and her bills are always more expensive on the lowest rate than what I spend. You can say and believe til the cows come home that you think its more expensive but I know it isn't as I use it

Is your house and your sisters identical though?
There are two people in my parents house, and two people in mine - my bill is half of what my father pays out. Sometimes you are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to utilities.

Reports have shown that the prepay companies are more expensive, I've already linked to the bonkers.ie blog, below are two more articles that are reporting increased costs are linked to the prepay options.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/prepay-electricity-users-fork-out-extra-137-a-year-29279402.html

http://irishfinancialreview.com/2013/10/04/prepaid-electricity-meters-significantly-increase-costs-for-families/


You are tied into that company as long as their meter is in their house, meaning that tenant can't bring their billing history/discounts with them if they move in. They also can't move providers if they feel they will get a better deal elsewhere.
The landlord will also probably not be impressed having to pay charges to have the meter removed from their property at their cost or have the wall redecorated to fix any markings/holes that are left behind from its removal. Or tenants refusing to take their house because they don't want to be paying the higher costs associated with prepay companies.

billie1b

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Is your house and your sisters identical though?
There are two people in my parents house, and two people in mine - my bill is half of what my father pays out. Sometimes you are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to utilities.

Reports have shown that the prepay companies are more expensive, I've already linked to the bonkers.ie blog, below are two more articles that are reporting increased costs are linked to the prepay options.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/prepay-electricity-users-fork-out-extra-137-a-year-29279402.html

http://irishfinancialreview.com/2013/10/04/prepaid-electricity-meters-significantly-increase-costs-for-families/


You are tied into that company as long as their meter is in their house, meaning that tenant can't bring their billing history/discounts with them if they move in. They also can't move providers if they feel they will get a better deal elsewhere.
The landlord will also probably not be impressed having to pay charges to have the meter removed from their property at their cost or have the wall redecorated to fix any markings/holes that are left behind from its removal. Or tenants refusing to take their house because they don't want to be paying the higher costs associated with prepay companies.

I have a 4 bedroom and she has a 3 bedroom one, mine is the bigger house and still works out cheaper

whiteandlight

It's not about house size.

The only way you can compare is if you and your sister are using exactly the same number of units. Of course her bills will be higher if she uses more electricity. The thing is, if you were both to use the same amount your bill would be more expensive than hers because it's prepay

L1011

billie1b wrote: »

Your telling me theres no way it can be cheaper, I know its cheaper, i'm paying the bleedin bills, my sister has Electric Ireland with 2 adults and 3 kids and her bills are always more expensive on the lowest rate than what I spend. You can say and believe til the cows come home that you think its more expensive but I know it isn't as I use it

What you're saying defies both the laws of economics and physics.

Your bills cannot become lower by changing to a significantly dearer supplier unless you also made a massive adjustment in your usage patterns at the same time.

the world wonders

billie1b wrote: »

Your telling me theres no way it can be cheaper, I know its cheaper, i'm paying the bleedin bills, my sister has Electric Ireland with 2 adults and 3 kids and her bills are always more expensive on the lowest rate than what I spend. You can say and believe til the cows come home that you think its more expensive but I know it isn't as I use it

On one side, billie1b's anecdotes. On the other side, basic mathematics. Hmmmm....

ted1

billie1b wrote: »

I have prepay power, im a renter, my bill with prepay is averaging €50 per 2 months cheaper, cant go wrong with it in my opinion

Your consumption is down, the price you pay for it has increased. Remember your bill is for 9 weeks not 8

ted1

billie1b wrote: »

Your telling me theres no way it can be cheaper, I know its cheaper, i'm paying the bleedin bills, my sister has Electric Ireland with 2 adults and 3 kids and her bills are always more expensive on the lowest rate than what I spend. You can say and believe til the cows come home that you think its more expensive but I know it isn't as I use it

I will tell you there is no way your kwh price is cheaper.
You are not paying your bleedin bills, your on prepay with no bills.

ted1

billie1b wrote: »

I have a 4 bedroom and she has a 3 bedroom one, mine is the bigger house and still works out cheaper

House size means nothing.
In my 3 bed house I have the following lights.
Kitchen 4w led *8
Living room 5.8w led *1
Hall 5.8w led *1
Porch 11W cfl* 1
Landing 11w cfl* 1
Bathroom 11w cfl* 1
Bedrooms 11w cfl * 3
Total lights= 109.6w

My sister has a similar size house. In one if her rooms she has a 100w lamp. I reckon her total lights are around 1000w

So she pays around 18c an hour, I pay around 1.8c an hour

You see the difference that house size is irrelevant

billie1b

ted1 wrote: »

I will tell you there is no way your kwh price is cheaper.
You are not paying your bleedin bills, your on prepay with no bills.

Its still a bill that I have to pay, if I didnt pay it i'd have no electricity

Big Davey

What did I start lol
The price per unit is more expensive on pre pay so it has to be more expensive comparing like for like correct ?

ted1

Big Davey wrote: »

What did I start lol
The price per unit is more expensive on pre pay so it has to be more expensive comparing like for like correct ?

Plus the additional charge of 37c a day

ted1

billie1b wrote: »

Its still a bill that I have to pay, if I didnt pay it i'd have no electricity

Not technically a bill and you don't get a break down shown usage and costs. Clever that

billie1b

ted1 wrote: »

Not technically a bill and you don't get a break down shown usage and costs. Clever that

Yeah I do, your allowed to request it, I get one every few months

Borderfox

I had tenants that absolutely positively would not take bills in their own name so changed both meters to prepay and no complaints

ShaShaBear

Myself and oh had it in our last property and are getting it into our new one. I much prefer it as there are no nasty surprises, I am much more energy conscious and efficient.
Some people, like myself, just prefer the rigidity.

ted1

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Myself and oh had it in our last property and are getting it into our new one. I much prefer it as there are no nasty surprises, I am much more energy conscious and efficient.
Some people, like myself, just prefer the rigidity.

What type lights have you? 40% of domestic loads is lighting. No point in paying extra for electricity, when you can put the extra money into energy saving and get cheaper electricity got ever.

I'm at the point where I can't cut back my usage any further.

Changing to prepay makes nonsense.

lukesmom

Love prepay power no more nasty bills

The_Conductor

If I was letting to professionals, and had the house equipped to a high standard, the last thing in the world I'd do is install pre-pay meters- it would instantly rule out the tenant type I'd be seeking. Usual- is part of the hand-over includes a meter reading and the transfer of utility accounts to the tenant. Pretty standard, to be honest.

ted1

lukesmom wrote: »

Love prepay power no more nasty bills

Conpare these prices http://prepaypower.ie/pricing
To these.
https://www.airtricity.com/ie/home/products/electricity/custom-plan
Or these http://www.bordgaisenergy.ie/publications/tariffs/ Remember you get 10-20% off these prices when you switch
Your actually mad, do you do your weekly shop in spar as oppose to a supermarket? That's what it's actually like

Big Davey

The_Conductor wrote: »

If I was letting to professionals, and had the house equipped to a high standard, the last thing in the world I'd do is install pre-pay meters- it would instantly rule out the tenant type I'd be seeking. Usual- is part of the hand-over includes a meter reading and the transfer of utility accounts to the tenant. Pretty standard, to be honest.

I agree.

_Kaiser_

Big Davey wrote: »

I agree.

Ditto.. as a professional adult with a decent job and wage, and who has always paid his rent/bills on time, I'd find it insulting to be honest.

Unless the LL agreed to remove it at their own expense I'd look elsewhere

TheChizler

Made a few comparison graphs recently, the only way you could beat standard with pre-pay (for the same usage) was if you used less than 30 units per billing period.

ted1

TheChizler wrote: »

Made a few comparison graphs recently, the only way you could beat standard with pre-pay (for the same usage) was if you used less than 30 units per billing period.

Did you double check,unit price the same ( no one in a contract pays this), there's 37.5c a day extra and the standing charge is more or less the same, the pso levy is the same

GarIT

Prepay meters are the household equivalent of a gastric band, if you have absolutely no self control it is a good idea to have moderation forced on you but if you have an ounce of cop on you are just better off watching what you eat (the electricity) yourself.

TheChizler

ted1 wrote: »

Did you double check,unit price the same ( no one in a contract pays this), there's 37.5c a day extra and the standing charge is more or less the same, the pso levy is the same

That was including everything, double checked off a few comparison websites. I did it in October I'll check the graph when I get home.

QuiteInterestin

Mr.S wrote: »

If it was a house share with people I didn't know, i'd prefer Pre-Pay.

Think it would be a nightmare in a house share situation. There'd always be someone who would never put money into the meter but would happily use the units paid for by others. At least when you get a bill, its easier to work out who owes what by evenly dividing the bill by the number of people in the house.

lukesmom

ted1 wrote: »

Conpare these prices http://prepaypower.ie/pricing
To these.
https://www.airtricity.com/ie/home/products/electricity/custom-plan
Or these http://www.bordgaisenergy.ie/publications/tariffs/ Remember you get 10-20% off these prices when you switch
Your actually mad, do you do your weekly shop in spar as oppose to a supermarket? That's what it's actually like

Costs a fiver a day for gas and about €4 electric so no I'm not mad and its handy. We don't pay rent or have a mortgage. Do our shopping in tesco, aldi, lidl or wherever I feel like.

Clive

People can do whatever they like in their own home, if they find pre pay better then more power to them. Personally, I would find a pre pay meter a huge negative in a house for rent.

foggy_lad

Big Davey wrote: »

As my Tenant has left with no forwarding address and I now have to set up an electric supply and gas supply in my name for the Two or three weeks I should have the property in my name it got me thinking of pre pay power. Would tenants be happy with this system ? Would it put professional types off ? Does a similar system exists for gas ?
Thanks

Tenants don't like this because when the property is vacant the meters are usually going into serious arrears because of the standing charges and the extra monthly fees for the electricity meters, only cowboy/slum landlords would install these to avoid paying for services when the place is vacant.

dubrov

IMO, installing Prepay would be a negative for tenants who can budget effectively and always pay their bills on time.

Surely, these are the sorts of tenants you would like to have.

foggy_lad

billie1b wrote: »

I have prepay power, im a renter, my bill with prepay is averaging €50 per 2 months cheaper, cant go wrong with it in my opinion

knowing you will get cut off when the Meyer hits zero and being able to see how much is left helps some people to manage their power usage but for most it can mean going without unnecessarily.

billie1b wrote: »

Your telling me theres no way it can be cheaper, I know its cheaper, i'm paying the bleedin bills, my sister has Electric Ireland with 2 adults and 3 kids and her bills are always more expensive on the lowest rate than what I spend. You can say and believe til the cows come home that you think its more expensive but I know it isn't as I use it

if ye both used exactly the same number of units in a year you will have had to "top-up" by at least €136 more than your sisters total bill amounts for the year. Cutting back makes your bills lower but are you missing out by cutting back?

billie1b wrote: »

Its still a bill that I have to pay, if I didnt pay it i'd have no electricity

The best way of explaining it is if your normal bill with Electric Ireland totals €100 for a month your cost for the same amount of electricity with a prepaymeter will be AT LEAST €13 HIGHER.

THERE IS NO SAVING, what happens is people are forced to use less power meaning less waste but also in many cases meaning a lower quality of life as you can't take long showers or have to stop yourself whenever you feel like boiling the kettle for a culpa etc.

If people were sensible and went around the house confiscating/cutting the plugs off TV's and other appliances left on by the kids and only putting washes on when the machine is full etc as well as changing all the bulbs to cfl bulbs they would save a lot more without feeling like Scrooge!

billie1b

foggy_lad wrote: »

knowing you will get cut off when the Meyer hits zero and being able to see how much is left helps some people to manage their power usage but for most it can mean going without unnecessarily.

if ye both used exactly the same number of units in a year you will have had to "top-up" by at least €136 more than your sisters total bill amounts for the year. Cutting back makes your bills lower but are you missing out by cutting back?



The best way of explaining it is if your normal bill with Electric Ireland totals €100 for a month your cost for the same amount of electricity with a prepaymeter will be AT LEAST €13 HIGHER.

THERE IS NO SAVING, what happens is people are forced to use less power meaning less waste but also in many cases meaning a lower quality of life as you can't take long showers or have to stop yourself whenever you feel like boiling the kettle for a culpa etc.

If people were sensible and went around the house confiscating/cutting the plugs off TV's and other appliances left on by the kids and only putting washes on when the machine is full etc as well as changing all the bulbs to cfl bulbs they would save a lot more without feeling like Scrooge!

You honestly think i'm going around plugging things out and not making tea to save on electricity?? I use the same amount of power and live the same life and routine as when I was on bill with Electric Ireland, I actually use more as the kids now have their own tv and xbox and sky box to watch/play. I don't have it cause I can't afford my electricity, I have it because its easier and works out cheaper for me, thats my opinion and i've worked all the things out and watched my units and usage and it comes up cheaper, i'm not the only one who thinks its cheaper, family of mine and friends from work and my own friends have it and they find it easier and cheaper too.

foggy_lad

billie1b wrote: »

You honestly think i'm going around plugging things out and not making tea to save on electricity?? I use the same amount of power and live the same life and routine as when I was on bill with Electric Ireland, I actually use more as the kids now have their own tv and xbox and sky box to watch/play. I don't have it cause I can't afford my electricity, I have it because its easier and works out cheaper for me, thats my opinion and i've worked all the things out and watched my units and usage and it comes up cheaper, i'm not the only one who thinks its cheaper, family of mine and friends from work and my own friends have it and they find it easier and cheaper too.

OK well it is not cheaper per unit as most suppliers offer large discounts for online bills and direct debit payments plus they do not charge an extra €137 per year on top of the most expensive tariff.

V.W.L 11

Can i get the prepay power meter removed???

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

The Standing Charge , Unit price and PSO levy are the same on standard rates for bill pay and pre pay.

Pre Pay power customers pay a prepayment service charge of 37.5c a day (e136.71/year). Bill pay customers do not pay this.

It's impossible for your bill to be cheaper if you are using the same amount of power each month. As other posters have pointed out, the reduction can only be from you/your family using less electricity.

billie1b wrote: »

You honestly think i'm going around plugging things out and not making tea to save on electricity?? I use the same amount of power and live the same life and routine as when I was on bill with Electric Ireland, I actually use more as the kids now have their own tv and xbox and sky box to watch/play. I don't have it cause I can't afford my electricity, I have it because its easier and works out cheaper for me, thats my opinion and i've worked all the things out and watched my units and usage and it comes up cheaper, i'm not the only one who thinks its cheaper, family of mine and friends from work and my own friends have it and they find it easier and cheaper too.

billie1b

foggy_lad wrote: »

OK well it is not cheaper per unit as most suppliers offer large discounts for online bills and direct debit payments plus they do not charge an extra €137 per year on top of the most expensive tariff.

Thanks for your advice and I did know all that, a guy from Electric Ireland knocked on my door the other evening, sound fella, chatted for ages. He wouldn't believe that I was averaging €2.50-€2.80 per day including my daily charge, he came into my house and I showed him the meter, the previous days, weeks and months charge and his words were 'jesus thats brilliant'. He turned around and my wife had the cooker on, the kids were playing xbox (32inch tv) in the kitchen, I was watching Air Crash Investigation (50 inch tv), the christmas tree lights were on, all the xmas lights in the windows (10 windows) and most the house lights were on, he said 'I can see why your not interested in bill pay'. We talked a few minutes more about football and he left.

foggy_lad

SCHEDULE OF CHARGES
Schedule of Charges
Meter Replacement charge €135
Keypad Replacement charge €50
Customer Card Replacement Charge €10
Call out fee €50
Out of hours - weekday €90
Out of hours -- weekend €130
Early Termination of contract = Meter removal fee + number of months remaining on the contract x €10
Meter removal Fee €50
Number of months remaining on the contract x €10
Paper Statement Fee €5

http://www.prepaypower.ie/docs/default-document-library/prepaypower---terms-and-conditions-of-supply.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Their schedule of charges seems quite extreme. The same terms and conditions mention a 12month initial contract, They mention getting their equipment back at termination in fully working and useable condition or charges being levied.

lukesmom

billie1b wrote: »

Thanks for your advice and I did know all that, a guy from Electric Ireland knocked on my door the other evening, sound fella, chatted for ages. He wouldn't believe that I was averaging €2.50-€2.80 per day including my daily charge, he came into my house and I showed him the meter, the previous days, weeks and months charge and his words were 'jesus thats brilliant'. He turned around and my wife had the cooker on, the kids were playing xbox (32inch tv) in the kitchen, I was watching Air Crash Investigation (50 inch tv), the christmas tree lights were on, all the xmas lights in the windows (10 windows) and most the house lights were on, he said 'I can see why your not interested in bill pay'. We talked a few minutes more about football and he left.

Yeah I find it great value too. It was about €4 a day over christmas but its normaIly about €3. don't have to worry about bills coming through the door and I can keep an eye on how much we spend and use. So easy to top up online now too. Have the bord gais Meter too for heating.

foggy_lad

billie1b wrote: »

Thanks for your advice and I did know all that, a guy from Electric Ireland knocked on my door the other evening, sound fella, chatted for ages. He wouldn't believe that I was averaging €2.50-€2.80 per day including my daily charge, he came into my house and I showed him the meter, the previous days, weeks and months charge and his words were 'jesus thats brilliant'. He turned around and my wife had the cooker on, the kids were playing xbox (32inch tv) in the kitchen, I was watching Air Crash Investigation (50 inch tv), the christmas tree lights were on, all the xmas lights in the windows (10 windows) and most the house lights were on, he said 'I can see why your not interested in bill pay'. We talked a few minutes more about football and he left.

That daily usage adds up to about €1050 a year, it would be about €900 or most likely less if with a normal supplier. Ye are either living like hermits or shilling? Have you any connection to either company offering prepay electricity?