Sold a car, buyer wants refund

Jamerican

Sold an old 97 car for €240. Guy looked at it twice over 2 weeks and chose not to test drive it. Told him it had been sitting up for months but had a strong engine. He haggled and finally bought it.

Now 3 days later, he's claiming that there is too much to be done with the car and wants a refund. He's been told no, but is claiming he'll be coming back with the car and to get his money sorted. He was told that it would be a wasted trip, "Oh trust me it wont be". Then messages of "it wont be me youre dealing with" etc etc.

Partner is worried he is going to do something to the house or become violent and just wants to pay him to get him to go away. I think he needs to **** off and all sales are final. Don't know what he was expecting for €240.

The tax form has already gone off so I don't think we should legally even take it back and who knows what he was up to with the car. We aren't responding to the messages anymore, but in case he shows up what should we do?

L-M

You don't have to tax it back.

Ring the Gardai ASAP.

BigCon

Don't answer the door.
Call the Gardai if he attempts to damage any property etc (or if he makes any more threatening calls).

chrismon

He bought the car as is so it's his problem now.
Document each time he calls you and what he says.

hallo dare

as mentioned above, contact the guards. give them whatever information you have on him, name, address, phone number. show them the messages and politely inform him that you have contacted the guards over his remarks and that the deal has been done.

For all you know he's taken the engine out and stuck back in a heap of dirt.

Sounds like a right pr1ck that lad.

YbFocus

Don't entertain it for a minute! Tell him to feck off that it was a private sale and is buyer beware end of story.
With a €240 car he can't expect much!

Atlantic Dawn

€240, what the hell did he expect, a new tyre on some cars would cost more than this, tell him to PFO.

L-M

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

€240, what the hell did he expect, a new tyre on some cars would cost more than this, tell him to PFO.

Don't tell him anything. Ring the Gardai

fryup

did he look the type that would do something unsavoury??

Jamerican

Partner went to the gardai this morning and was told that it was a civil matter until he began to disturb the peace. No advice on how to handle it.

fryup wrote: »

did he look the type that would do something unsavoury??

I didn't deal with him the partner did, but he says he is flaky and might have mental problems.

Supergurrier

Then some people ask why sellers don't want to bring a random buyer to their home address to view/purchase a car and its a scam if bought/viewed in a neutral location.

irishmover

Supergurrier wrote: »

Then some people ask why sellers don't want to bring a random buyer to their home address to view/purchase a car and its a scam if bought/viewed in a neutral location.

Was going to say the same myself. Would never entertain someone who wanted to view the car at my own home.

hallo dare

Jamerican wrote: »

Partner went to the gardai this morning and was told that it was a civil matter until he began to disturb the peace. No advice on how to handle it.




I didn't deal with him the partner did, but he says he is flaky and might have mental problems.

so even though this lad is abusive and is talking of what he'll do, the guards still won't act. was the evidence shown to the guards of what he's said he'd do?

may be a thing it will blow over, let the pr1ck know that the guards are contacted the next time he makes contact with you.

keep the guards number on speed dial should they be required.

Supergurrier

irishmover wrote: »

Was going to say the same myself. Would never entertain someone who wanted to view the car at my own home.

Well I'm living at home ATM trying to save a deposit for a mortgage and my car is there my dads brand new avensis and its not my house so I wouldn't anyway.

A lot of hassle could be saved also by spending under a tenner on a throwaway mobile from Argos and a free tesco sim.

Save dealing with some of the clowns around

_Kaiser_

Supergurrier wrote: »

Then some people ask why sellers don't want to bring a random buyer to their home address to view/purchase a car and its a scam if bought/viewed in a neutral location.

... or buy/sell a car privately at all. This is the 2nd thread in about a week on this topic.

OP: some good advice above. Just keep a log and don't reply to anything. As you rightly say yourself, all private sales are final and the onus is on the buyer to check the car out fully before they hand over cash. After that it's their problem. Plus it's a 14 year old car worth less than most people's phones - what on earth was he expecting?

There's no guarantee that even if you did refund him that it'd be the end of it either - he could start looking for money for his wasted time/commuting etc next :rolleyes:

If however he does turn up (unlikely IMO - this type are usually all mouth) then just call the Gardai

_Kaiser_

irishmover wrote: »

Was going to say the same myself. Would never entertain someone who wanted to view the car at my own home.

I buy and sell a lot of stuff on adverts myself - some of it bulky - and like yourself I'd never meet anyone at my home or place of work. It's always a neutral location like a shopping centre or petrol station and always when there's lots of people around.

Common sense IMO. You just don't know who you're dealing with

No Pants

Jamerican wrote: »

Partner went to the gardai this morning and was told that it was a civil matter until he began to disturb the peace. No advice on how to handle it.

Lazy guard. This may help him/her understand their job.


Assault:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0002.html


Threats of assault:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0005.html


Coercion:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0009.html


Harassment:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0010.html

Atlantic Dawn

irishmover wrote: »

Was going to say the same myself. Would never entertain someone who wanted to view the car at my own home.

But the VLC has home address on it, nobody with a brain will buy a car without seeing the VLC and who the car is registered to.

L-M

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

But the VLC has home address on it, nobody with a brain will buy a car without seeing the VLC and who the car is registered to.

Meet them at a carpark, do everything and if the buyer is serious, then bring them to your house.

Supergurrier

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

But the VLC has home address on it, nobody with a brain will buy a car without seeing the VLC and who the car is registered to.

Its not so much the fact they know your address its the fact if the Car is worth small money and you are inviting them to view what you have and have a good snoop around your home

Atlantic Dawn

Limerick man wrote: »

Meet them at a carpark, do everything and if the buyer is serious, then bring them to your house.

Yes final sale to a genuine buyer could be on confirmation of VLC details, bringing VLC to a car park is only asking for trouble.

I think what's really needed is a sales handover area, something like the NCT centre where the official sale is handled, they verify a transaction has been made and that the car now belongs to the buyer, perhaps have a PIN required for transfer.

Stella Virgo

[QUOTE=Jamerican;88525031]Partner went to the gardai this morning and was told that it was a civil matter until he began to disturb the peace. No advice on how to handle it.




I didn't deal with him the partner did, but he says he is flaky and might have mental problems.[/QUOTE]

make sure u got the idiot guards name and the time u attended the station also if he wrote it in the book,and get a ref/case number as well.
cos, if this goes pearshaped these these clowns/guards have been known to deny u ever called to the station.

pm1977x

If he didn't even test drive it then what was he expecting?

Jamerican

Thanks all for the advice, gonna have the gardai number on stand by. Loads of texts came in saying have it ready because he doesn't have money to be wasting etc. Partner is nervous but we haven't responded to any and ignored a call. We had planned to meet them somewhere else, but the way the day went we thought it would be easier to just to do it at home. Supposed to be coming in the next hour so I'll update when it's all done on whether or not if we survived.

corktina

Go back to the Gards and tell them you have ben threatened, which you clearly have, THAT is NOT a civil matter.

SpaceTime

A civil matter is a look polite dispute over a sale.
Once it progresses to threats, it becomes a potential criminal matter.

Supergurrier

Jamerican wrote: »

Thanks all for the advice, gonna have the gardai number on stand by. Loads of texts came in saying have it ready because he doesn't have money to be wasting etc. Partner is nervous but we haven't responded to any and ignored a call. We had planned to meet them somewhere else, but the way the day went we thought it would be easier to just to do it at home. Supposed to be coming in the next hour so I'll update when it's all done on whether or not if we survived.

If I lived anyways nearby I would be happy to come over and just happen to be chopping wood with an axe in the garden, bet he wouldn't hang around long lol.

HughMann

Just a personal opinion, but if this knob end was to come on to my property uninvited I'd make sure to have a hurl in hand. Not saying that I'd wear it off him but if he acted threatening I'd make him aware that I'm willing to. Going the route of the Gardai is the better option tho.

Mycroft H

Supergurrier wrote: »

If I lived anyways nearby I would be happy to come over and just happen to be chopping wood with an axe in the garden, bet he wouldn't hang around long lol.

I always liked banging a sliotar around the yard

SpaceTime

That or invite at least 20 mates to an impromptu BBQ themed on looking like the cast of Love Hate.

Saucy McKetchup

This seems to be happening a lot lately, had the exact same problem last week, sold a car on adverts, made the mistake of giving him the log book and 2 weeks later I get threatening texts from the buyer, guards would do nothing and adverts staff were no help, the person even threatened my kids in a text, with no one willing to help so I googled his username and phone number, ended up finding out his real name and address, Facebook, Twitter etc, the next time he text me threatening me I text him back his name and address and a few personal pictures, He hasn't text back since.

SpaceTime

If the Gardai don't take that seriously ask to speak to a superintendent or someone up the ranks.

Threats of violence are very serious.
Death threats are even more serious again and this isn't one person's word against another I'd there's a text message trail!

Jamerican

I rang the gardai again, and let them know about the texts and the response was the same. Said they were not just requests for his money threats and there was nothing they could do at this point, but if he was to even show up to just call them right away. The house he bought it at was a family member's and now they are nervous and want my partner to just deal with him. He's gone out now to wait with them in case crazy shows up knowing he is supposed to call the guards right away.

Supergurrier

Limerick man wrote: »

Meet them at a carpark, do everything and if the buyer is serious, then bring them to your house.

By this logic though this guy qualifies as a 100% serious customer.

He did buy the car after all

Pinch Flat

Mycroft H wrote: »

I always liked banging a sliotar around the yard

Same here. Also having a golf putter handy for some practice.

corktina

Jamerican wrote: »

I rang the gardai again, and let them know about the texts and the response was the same. Said they were not just requests for his money threats and there was nothing they could do at this point, but if he was to even show up to just call them right away. The house he bought it at was a family member's and now they are nervous and want my partner to just deal with him. He's gone out now to wait with them in case crazy shows up knowing he is supposed to call the guards right away.

Ringing them is a mistake, go in and make a fuss, ask for the Sergeant, then the Superintendent....

_Kaiser_

corktina wrote: »

Ringing them is a mistake, go in and make a fuss, ask for the Sergeant, then the Superintendent....

You won't get a Super on a Saturday though. Be lucky to even get a Sergeant or Inspector depending on whether it's a smaller/part-time station or one managed by a larger district station

Jimmy Conway

Don't mean to hijack thread but having same problem as OP. Sold my car this morning, was off the road for a year before sale but had a mechanic look over it and get it fit for sale, NCT'd etc.
Guy looks at last night with his mechanic and they said its ok (without a test drive). He picks it up today and now says clutch is slipping. I told him that's the first I knew of it, my mechanic gave it an all clear, his did too ( bar a little oil underneath engine but he said probably nothing to worry over) now he's looking for me to go half on price of clutch.
Genuinely did not know about clutch, he didn't drive it and his mechanic said it was sound so think I'm just going to have to say hard cheese...

pm1977x

Jimmy Conway wrote: »

Don't mean to hijack thread but having same problem as OP. Sold my car this morning, was off the road for a year before sale but had a mechanic look over it and get it fit for sale, NCT'd etc.
Guy looks at last night with his mechanic and they said its ok (without a test drive). He picks it up today and now says clutch is slipping. I told him that's the first I knew of it, my mechanic gave it an all clear, his did too ( bar a little oil underneath engine but he said probably nothing to worry over) now he's looking for me to go half on price of clutch.
Genuinely did not know about clutch, he didn't drive it and his mechanic said it was sound so think I'm just going to have to say hard cheese...

Agreed, by the sound of these 2 examples I'd be insisting on the buyer test driving before private sale, amazed they didn't

L-M

Jimmy Conway wrote: »

Don't mean to hijack thread but having same problem as OP. Sold my car this morning, was off the road for a year before sale but had a mechanic look over it and get it fit for sale, NCT'd etc.
Guy looks at last night with his mechanic and they said its ok (without a test drive). He picks it up today and now says clutch is slipping. I told him that's the first I knew of it, my mechanic gave it an all clear, his did too ( bar a little oil underneath engine but he said probably nothing to worry over) now he's looking for me to go half on price of clutch.
Genuinely did not know about clutch, he didn't drive it and his mechanic said it was sound so think I'm just going to have to say hard cheese...

He could of burnt it himself (very unlikely but not impossible) tell him to jog on.

demanufactured

Buyer beware...

Tell him sold as seen....goodbye

_Kaiser_

Jimmy Conway wrote: »

Don't mean to hijack thread but having same problem as OP. Sold my car this morning, was off the road for a year before sale but had a mechanic look over it and get it fit for sale, NCT'd etc.
Guy looks at last night with his mechanic and they said its ok (without a test drive). He picks it up today and now says clutch is slipping. I told him that's the first I knew of it, my mechanic gave it an all clear, his did too ( bar a little oil underneath engine but he said probably nothing to worry over) now he's looking for me to go half on price of clutch.
Genuinely did not know about clutch, he didn't drive it and his mechanic said it was sound so think I'm just going to have to say hard cheese...

Again...

- Buyer told that car has been off the road
- Looked over it WITH his own mechanic
- Proceeded with sale

Any problems/faults/failures are his the moment deal is completed. If he wanted comeback he should have bought through a dealer.

Seriously though, I'm normally against government interference in things like this, but it's painfully obvious something needs to be done about buying/selling cars privately .. maybe a legally enforceable receipt that you print off saying "I confirm that I have inspected this car to my satisfaction and acknowledge that this car is sold as is without any warranty or liability to the seller". 3 copies made.. one each for buyer/seller, the other to Shannon with the log book.

reelkidmusic

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Again...

- Buyer told that car has been off the road
- Looked over it WITH his own mechanic
- Proceeded with sale

Any problems/faults/failures are his the moment deal is completed. If he wanted comeback he should have bought through a dealer.

Seriously though, I'm normally against government interference in things like this, but it's painfully obvious something needs to be done about buying/selling cars privately .. maybe a legally enforceable receipt that you print off saying "I confirm that I have inspected this car to my satisfaction and acknowledge that this car is sold as is without any warranty or liability to the seller". 3 copies made.. one each for buyer/seller, the other to Shannon with the log book.

That's a nice idea but surely a private seller could do up their own version of a receipt that would be written to the same effect. Buyer and seller both sign and either photocopy or take picture on smartphone. At end of day, as many have said previously, it's a case of buyer beware. It could be a case of buyers only needing a spare part and trying to return it having removed the required part!

_Kaiser_

reelkidmusic wrote: »

That's a nice idea but surely a private seller could do up their own version of a receipt that would be written to the same effect. Buyer and seller both sign and either photocopy or take picture on smartphone. At end of day, as many have said previously, it's a case of buyer beware. It could be a case of buyers only needing a spare part and trying to return it having removed the required part!

Well the reason I'm suggesting an "official" version with a copy on file is that it would eliminate the chancers overnight if their signature was on a legally-recognised receipt.

reelkidmusic

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Well the reason I'm suggesting an "official" version with a copy on file is that it would eliminate the chancers overnight if their signature was on a legally-recognised receipt.

Fair enough I suppose. These chancers play on taking advantage of one off sellers who may not have the balls to tell them where to go. They wouldn't be as quick to try it with a dealer.

thecomedian

Ignore anymore contact. The more you respond to them the worse you make it.
They won't do anything and if they do turn up just call the guards.
Something similar happened to me a few years ago, the buyer thought the turbo was gone.
Used the same tactics, saying "I'll make sure I'll get my money back". It turned out a hose came off a few days after he bought it.
I responded too much at the time.

king_of_inismac

Ignoring may be the best approach. You don't want to maintain a line one of communication with him.

In case he is considering turning up at your door,I would let him know that you've made the gardai aware of the threats (naming the station). If he knows that you've been proactive, he is less likely to escalate things.

No way I'd be giving him his money back. Private sale generally means no comeback and I wouldn't let his bullyboy tactics win out.

Take care man.

Jamerican

Thanks all, just a quick update: He never showed. So I guess he was all talk afterall.

biko

Glad to hear it. Hopefully that will be the end of it now.

Big Davey

Interesting reading ! in my experience most guards don't want to do their job unless it a simple no tax on car etc etc
As private detectives don't have any powers different than a normal person how are they not charged with coercion on a daily basis ? They follow people around all the time ?

No Pants wrote: »

Lazy guard. This may help him/her understand their job.


Assault:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0002.html


Threats of assault:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0005.html


Coercion:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0009.html


Harassment:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0010.html

Big Davey

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Yes final sale to a genuine buyer could be on confirmation of VLC details, bringing VLC to a car park is only asking for trouble.

I think what's really needed is a sales handover area, something like the NCT centre where the official sale is handled, they verify a transaction has been made and that the car now belongs to the buyer, perhaps have a PIN required for transfer.

That's a great idea.