Terribly confused

tom_tarbucket

This is doing my head in. I cannot make up my mind. And diffrent people have a different take on it.
Looking at buying a 2nd hand BMW 5 series.
Budget of max 10,000 Euro.

My drive to and from work is 8 miles a day, in Dublin city centre traffic. Stopping and starting traffic etc, the journey even though only 4 miles takes about 25 minutes each way.
I go down the country every 3 weeks. 300 mile round trip.
And then normal stuff like tipping to the shop etc etc
So annual mileage is 9000 miles a year roughly.

I love the 5 series in E 60 mode.
I also love the low end torque of the diesel cars. The petrol heads on here will jest at this, but I just like it.

My 2 choices at the moment are

1. 2007 BMW 523i / 525i Automatic.
2. 2006 Bmw 525d Automatic.

Should I get the diesel or the petrol ?

When you look at all these articles for diesel v petrol, its always based on new cars and cars like a Corolla or something. When cars get older the difference in price between petrol and diesel is not so wide



But based, on above , what do you think I should go with and why ?

Will that journey to work kill me on PETROL costs on a big car like the 5 series coupled with automatic transmission ( 18 Mpg maybe )

One minute im like : I love the diesel engine, great mpg, but then I will feck up the dpf.

Then next minute im : yes petrol is the choice, nice, quiet engine and then I think of crap MPG and the price of f3ck1n petrol, confused.


Any advice on this beaten to death subject


EDIT : I don't want any suggestions of a 5 or 6 litre super car.

Mena

Petrol. Why? Diesel is the devils juice!

ofcork

I didn't think there would be a dpf in a 2006 5er.

Eric Cartman

8 miles in slow stop go traffic means your diesel engine probably wont be heating up properly until half way through your journy, diesels don't like short trips and I think in maintenance terms (no turbo to contend with or dpf) that you would be far better off with the petrol. Also for the money your spending youd get a newer and better specc'd petrol 5 series that would be far comfier to sit in traffic in. Diesels also do horrible mpg in traffic.

BMJD

Petrol all the way. It might look expensive on paper but it's only around €3 per day for your work commute.

bmwguy

I have a 2004 525i automatic and I have a similar commute to you although it's in suburbs but stop start all the same. My car long term is averaging 26 mpg but will rise to 37 on motorways. I think the e60 will be the same. Mine is a late e39. Don't believe the headline figures of 55-60 mpg for diesels in mixed driving or commuting. My friend works for a dealership and has a different demo model all the time, I always check his OBC they average about 40-42 without fail (he has various cars but always a 16d, 18d or 20d which are all 2 litre diesels). I reckon whatever fuel costs are in a diesel add 50% and you'll get the petrol equivalent. Just to add he says there isn't a single petrol car in his dealership.

YbFocus

ofcork wrote: »

I didn't think there would be a dpf in a 2006 5er.

There were dpf's in the 2004 ones man, basically all e60's have them.

YbFocus

With your mileage you shouldn't even consider the diesel, in 8 miles the diesel will hardly have warmed and won't be anymore economic.

I have a 530d myself and it returns 38mpg normally, 40 if you really ask it.
Although the girlfriend can manage 43 when she tries :rolleyes:

There should be no thought process here at all. With the dpf in mind and the various other parts of the diesel engine that won't like getting to operating temp you should go with the petrol

Bpmull

YbFocus wrote: »

There were dpf's in the 2004 ones man, basically all e60's have them.

Well if that's the case then the diesel isn't suitable for the ops driving 8 miles a day in traffic won't do the dpf any favours and even the long trip every 3 weeks might not be enough for the dpf. Even forgetting about possible problems it wouldn't make financial sense to buy the diesel as you would never save anything really plus as said you would get a better spec/ newer petrol for less or the same money.

visual

Youll not get a good comparison here between diesel and petrol as most dont like diesels with very limited experience.

even in heavy traffic the diesel will return better mpg.

Both engines take the same time to heat up
A good run every couple of weeks will clear out the DPF if its fitted

Very few want a engine over 2 liters especially petrol so while it not a hot seller the diesel be much easier to sell on.

Diesel and auto is a good match

It would have to be a big difference in purchase price to sway me towards petrol.

YbFocus

Bpmull wrote: »

Well if that's the case then the diesel isn't suitable for the ops driving 8 miles a day in traffic won't do the dpf any favours and even the long trip every 3 weeks might not be enough for the dpf. Even forgetting about possible problems it wouldn't make financial sense to buy the diesel as you would never save anything really plus as said you would get a better spec/ newer petrol for less or the same money.

Very true Bp, as I said above there should be no thought on this at all.

In around town the 530 goes as low as 20mpg so if thats where the op is he will see no benefit.
On that 300 mile round trip if the petrol burns 10 gallons and the diesel burns 8 (should be about right I'm not going off calculating )

Then 9 litres at €1.5 a litre means an extra €13 every three weeks.

Again there is no decision to be made

YbFocus

visual wrote: »

Youll not get a good comparison here between diesel and petrol as most dont like diesels with very limited experience.

even in heavy traffic the diesel will return better mpg.

Both engines take the same time to heat up
A good run every couple of weeks will clear out the DPF if its fitted

Very few want a engine over 2 liters especially petrol so while it not a hot seller the diesel be much easir to sell on.

Diesel and auto is a good match

It would have to be a big difference in purchase price to sway me towards petrol.

They will do basically the same MPG and the diesel will take far longer to heat up, far far longer. My car likes 15-20 mins to feel good.

About the sell on thing, he will buy the petrol equivalent far cheaper than the diesel and this should negate the hardship of selling on. There is a market out there for them.

On another note there is a healthy diesel community on here, myself included

YbFocus

Clocky wrote: »

You should be looking at a 535i for a bit of decent poke anyways

If you have one thats grand but it's not what this chap wants he's decided on these two cars and that's what he's happy with.

tom_tarbucket

YbFocus wrote: »

If you have one thats grand but it's not what this chap wants he's decided on these two cars and that's what he's happy with.

Well said YB focus.

Clocky, thanks for input but I don't want to go any bigger than the engines in my opening post.

pred racer

Your mpg wont be great in the diesel on your trip to work and back but your trip down the country every 3 weeks should clear out the dpf no problem (once you keep er lit )

So for you op the choice is.....whichever one you fancy more:)


Fwiw. my car does a regen every second tank of farmer juice with very little town driving.

tom_tarbucket

visual wrote: »

Youll not get a good comparison here between diesel and petrol as most dont like diesels with very limited experience.

even in heavy traffic the diesel will return better mpg.

Both engines take the same time to heat up
A good run every couple of weeks will clear out the DPF if its fitted

Very few want a engine over 2 liters especially petrol so while it not a hot seller the diesel be much easier to sell on.

Diesel and auto is a good match

It would have to be a big difference in purchase price to sway me towards petrol.

Thanks for input. Based on my driving style and specifically my journey to work , what mpg do you think I'd get out of a 525 automatic diesel ?

And are you sure petrol and diesel cars have the same warm up time ?

Define a good run : 10 miles at 70 mph or 50 miles at 70 mph ?

Idbatterim

petrol with lpg conversion if too hard on petrol could be an option op...

YbFocus

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Thanks for input. Based on my driving style and specifically my journey to work , what mpg do you think I'd get out of a 525 automatic diesel ?

And are you sure petrol and diesel cars have the same warm up time ?

Define a good run : 10 miles at 70 mph or 50 miles at 70 mph ?

You'll be looking at 20-25mpg on your commute. 43-45mpg at a steady rate on the road on your longer trip.

At your annual mileage mpg means little.

A difference of 5mpg will cost you rougly the following...

40mpg
9000mls

9000/40 = 225gallns

45mpg
9000mls

9000/45 = 200gallons

25 gallons = 112litres

112 litres at average €1.5 a litre = €168 annually.

So if the diesel averaged 40 all year and the petrol even only averaged 30 then your looking at €336 in the difference, or 336/365 = 92c a day

Don't bring down a car purchase to mpg

tom_tarbucket

YbFocus wrote: »

You'll be looking at 20-25mpg on your commute. 43-45mpg at a steady rate on the road on your longer trip.

At your annual mileage mpg means little.

A difference of 5mpg will cost you rougly the following...

40mpg
9000mls

9000/40 = 225gallns

45mpg
9000mls

9000/45 = 200gallons

25 gallons = 112litres

112 litres at average €1.5 a litre = €168 annually.

So if the diesel averaged 40 all year and the petrol even only averaged 30 then your looking at €336 in the difference, or 336/365 = 92c a day

Don't bring down a car purchase to mpg

Thanks. But will a big lump of a yoke like the 5 series in a petrol automatic average out at 30 mpg though !

YbFocus

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Thanks. But will a big lump of a yoke like the 5 series in a petrol automatic average out at 30 mpg though !

My 530d does 40-42mpg but won't do more.
Owners on here of 525i's are saying 30mpg is easily achievable, now thats on longer journeys.

On your commute both cars will be way down, but I would assume they would be down an equal amount so you could negate it really if you know what I mean.

tom_tarbucket

YbFocus wrote: »

My 530d does 40-42mpg but won't do more.
Owners on here of 525i's are saying 30mpg is easily achievable, now thats on longer journeys.

On your commute both cars will be way down, but I would assume they would be down an equal amount so you could negate it really if you know what I mean.

So your personal vote is to go petrol yeah ?

Supergurrier

525i for sure.

Was one infront of me today in traffic and i smiled when i saw the badge on it.

YbFocus

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

So your personal vote is to go petrol yeah ?

Yes this is coming from a 530d owner, the petrel will suit you more and will be much healthier after that commute.

tom_tarbucket

Supergurrier wrote: »

525i for sure.

Was one infront of me today in traffic and i smiled when i saw the badge on it.

Yeah. They are few and far between though. Hope you asked your man was he selling ; )

Do people feel the 523i is just a bit under powered or something ?

debabyjesus

Op if you like diesel, buy the diesel and forget about everything else. From the sounds of your posts it almost seems like you're trying to convince yourself into buying diesel when reality says petrol. Just buy what will make you happy.

Fwiw id get the diesel, only because I prefer the drive of a good torquey diesel. So again buy what you like driving the most and don't settle for something else because mundane stuff like mpg's and reliability!

Idbatterim

the issue for me would be that the 523 has 41 bhp less for the same tax! of course, there are going to be god knows how many 523 for every 525. The other thing is, if paying that tax, I would want some GO in the car, at least the 525 will give you that...

tom_tarbucket

debabyjesus wrote: »

Op if you like diesel, buy the diesel and forget about everything else. From the sounds of your posts it almost seems like you're trying to convince yourself into buying diesel when reality says petrol. Just buy what will make you happy.

Fwiw id get the diesel, only because I prefer the drive of a good torquey diesel. So again buy what you like driving the most and don't settle for something else because mundane stuff like mpg's and reliability!

Thing is though all the diesels within my budget have a lot of mileage on them. And some are prone to timing chain issues.

I should have mentioned, on top of everything else, one of the factors for me is reliability.

Bpmull

Well driving a modern diesel 8 mile a day won't lead to much reliability from the car. I'm not against diesel cars far from it I drive a diesel. They prove to be very reliable when bought and used for the purpose they were intended for which is not driving around in traffic on short trips day in day out.

irish bloke

Have a 520d auto m-sport that the wife uses as a shopping trolley.

It's 06 so has the M47 engine (no timing chain issue)

Auto box and low down torque are the business.

No problem ever with dpf as I'll give her a 5 minute run out every few weeks.

Get the oil burner, there a great yoke

Sibiu

My 525i estate manual needs 14L /100km in the city..
Motorway from 7.8 to 10L/100km..:)

Supergurrier

Such daysul fever on boards these days

Jesus.

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

I also love the low end torque of the diesel cars. The petrol heads on here will jest at this, but I just like it.

From a purely economical point of view I'd go diesel.

From a purely driving point of view I'd go...............................diesel.

Its a win win as far as I'm concerned Tom :pac:

tom_tarbucket

debabyjesus wrote: »

Op if you like diesel, buy the diesel and forget about everything else. From the sounds of your posts it almost seems like you're trying to convince yourself into buying diesel when reality says petrol. Just buy what will make you happy.

Fwiw id get the diesel, only because I prefer the drive of a good torquey diesel. So again buy what you like driving the most and don't settle for something else because mundane stuff like mpg's and reliability!

I like the torque of the diesel but no point in all that if the car is not suited to my driving style. Another dis advantage of the diesel is they have a turbo - so yet another thing that could fail - on top of DPF, timing chain, DMF, swirl flaps etc.

I want a RELIABLE car.

kerten

It is strange that nobody points difference in refinement between diesel and petrol engines yet. If I sit in traffic everyday in my relatively luxury car, I prefer to have less vibration and noise to say money well spent on the car.(recently driven 2009 A8 3.0 TDI and surprised with vibration and noise it had for this class)

tom_tarbucket

Idbatterim wrote: »

the issue for me would be that the 523 has 41 bhp less for the same tax! of course, there are going to be god knows how many 523 for every 525. The other thing is, if paying that tax, I would want some GO in the car, at least the 525 will give you that...

I hear ya. But awful rare here. Surprising when they have the same tax as the 523.

tom_tarbucket

Jesus. wrote: »

From a purely economical point of view I'd go diesel.

From a purely driving point of view I'd go...............................diesel.

Its a win win as far as I'm concerned Tom :pac:

What about a reliability point of view ?

Idbatterim

the 525 would have cost a few k more new, explains why they are so much more scarce...

Jesus.

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

What about a reliability point of view ?

What about it?

tom_tarbucket

Jesus. wrote: »

What about it?

Would you recommend the diesel from a reliability point of view ?

Jesus.

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Would you recommend the diesel from a reliability point of view ?

To be honest mate, I haven't a clue. The real petrol (and diesel!) heads will have to answer that one for you. But I do find a lot of the diesel dmf/dpf thing sounds a bit too much like scaremongering to me. From the way some guys on here talk, you'd swear the things just fall off every diesel car onto the road after a couple of years!

But if its down to driving experience, I like the way daysuls drive.

Its up to you my man

tom_tarbucket

Jesus. wrote: »

To be honest mate, I haven't a clue. The real petrol (and diesel!) heads will have to answer that one for you. But I do find a lot of the diesel dmf/dpf thing sounds a bit too much like scaremongering to me. From the way some guys on here talk, you'd swear the things just fall off every diesel car onto the road after a couple of years!

But if its down to driving experience, I like the way daysuls drive.

Its up to you my man

Fair points. There can be a lot of scare mongering going on alright !

tom_tarbucket

irish bloke wrote: »

Have a 520d auto m-sport that the wife uses as a shopping trolley.

It's 06 so has the M47 engine (no timing chain issue)

Auto box and low down torque are the business.

No problem ever with dpf as I'll give her a 5 minute run out every few weeks.

Get the oil burner, there a great yoke

I'm regard to the 520d with this M 47 engine............I know its a 4 cylinder.

Nearly all the ones on sale in 2006 / 2007 within my budget have more than 100,000 MILES on the clock

Is this a lot of mileage on these 4 cylinder diesel engines ?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

ofcork wrote: »

I didn't think there would be a dpf in a 2006 5er.

There is in mine anyway...

tom_tarbucket

So after all the helpful posts, im gauging that the general consensus would be to go petrol

tom_tarbucket

bmwguy wrote: »

I have a 2004 525i automatic and I have a similar commute to you although it's in suburbs but stop start all the same. My car long term is averaging 26 mpg but will rise to 37 on motorways. I think the e60 will be the same. Mine is a late e39. Don't believe the headline figures of 55-60 mpg for diesels in mixed driving or commuting. My friend works for a dealership and has a different demo model all the time, I always check his OBC they average about 40-42 without fail (he has various cars but always a 16d, 18d or 20d which are all 2 litre diesels). I reckon whatever fuel costs are in a diesel add 50% and you'll get the petrol equivalent. Just to add he says there isn't a single petrol car in his dealership.

This is promising, I could easily live with these figures, its only if its constantly under 20 MPG in the city that will f3ck me up.

Mr.David

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Thanks for input. Based on my driving style and specifically my journey to work , what mpg do you think I'd get out of a 525 automatic diesel ?

And are you sure petrol and diesel cars have the same warm up time ?

Define a good run : 10 miles at 70 mph or 50 miles at 70 mph ?

I'd agree with low 20s mpg for city commute. Probably about 22mpg I would think (I have the E90 with same engine and manual gearbox).

For longer journeys it depends on your driving style. If I am driving fairly spiritedly (lots of overtaking and urgent accelerating) I will get about 28-30mpg. However when I am relaxed and have the cruise control on most of the time (at a steady 135km/hr) I will get about 36mpg so its pretty decent really.

Definitely petrol imo.

tom_tarbucket

Mr.David wrote: »

I'd agree with low 20s mpg for city commute. Probably about 22mpg I would think (I have the E90 with same engine and manual gearbox).

For longer journeys it depends on your driving style. If I am driving fairly spiritedly (lots of overtaking and urgent accelerating) I will get about 28-30mpg. However when I am relaxed and have the cruise control on most of the time (at a steady 135km/hr) I will get about 36mpg so its pretty decent really.

Definitely petrol imo.

EDIT : and you have a petrol 325i manual yeah ?

YbFocus

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

and you have a petrol 525i manual yeah ?

An e90 is a 325i Tom, very little difference in them.

solarflare

in response to yiure query about diesel v petrol e60 i have 05 e60 520d 90k miles regularly serviced eg ounce ayear absolutley no reliability issues i average 8k miles a year and bought car with 50k miles on it we also have a 08 318d with 160k miles on it since new no reliability issues whatsoever and finally my son drives 06 523i petrol again no reliability issues so the main difference diesels 38mpg town driving 47mpg long motorway journey petrol 22mpg around town 30mpg on long journey torque on 520d makes a good driving experience but no difference in comfort of ride or noise ounce diesel is warm

tom_tarbucket

solarflare wrote: »

in response to yiure query about diesel v petrol e60 i have 05 e60 520d 90k miles regularly serviced eg ounce ayear absolutley no reliability issues i average 8k miles a year and bought car with 50k miles on it we also have a 08 318d with 160k miles on it since new no reliability issues whatsoever and finally my son drives 06 523i petrol again no reliability issues so the main difference diesels 38mpg town driving 47mpg long motorway journey petrol 22mpg around town 30mpg on long journey torque on 520d makes a good driving experience but no difference in comfort of ride or noise ounce diesel is warm

Thanks. Doubt you would get 38 mpg consistently from a diesel E60 in town driving though ; )

tom_tarbucket

Is greater than 100,000 Miles on a 2006/2007 a lot of mileage on a BMW 520 D with the M 47 Engine and Auto Gearbox ?


Provided it has a decent service history.