UTMB 2014

grahamor

Really excited to be heading back again this year to tackle the TDS. Seems to be lots of Irish registered for all 4 races which is cool - http://www.ultratrailmb.com/page/108/List_of_registered.html

The atmosphere in Chamonix is unbelievable. Beginning on Monday evening when the PTL starts right up to Sunday evening when the last of the UTMB runners are coming in. The organisation is great and it's not really that expensive considering all that's involved.

Few things which ill change after doing the CCC last year

Chafing - didnt reapply body glide after 50k and could barely walk last 15k because of the stinging. Got my hands on some Bepanthen at the last aid station which helped.
Cushioned shoes - My Inov-8 trail roc 255 shoes were not cushioned enough in my opinion. Felt my blisters too much on the last rocky downhill. Will try Salomon Sense Mantra's this year

Things i wont change

Poles - essential IMHO
Food - eating normal food at the aid stations - noodle soup, oranges, pie etc. Only ate 4 gels.
Drink - Cola and lot's of it.

Anyone else signed up ?

Happy running

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zF9VLiosgc

DogSlySmile

Congratulations man! I feel like a lottery winner here! I'm reg'd for the CCC, really looking forward to getting stuck into a solid block of training now. Good to know that there is someone here who made it through the CCC before.

grahamor wrote: »

Things i wont change

Poles - essential IMHO

Ah jaysus no, seriously!? They look so awkward :eek:

b.harte

Mantra are on sale on sportsshoes.com at the minute, so are trailroc and terrafly. I have 300km on my mantra and they are getting better each run. Choosing them over the inov8 for almost every trail run - superb shoe.

grahamor

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Ah jaysus no, seriously!? They look so awkward :eek:

The foldable Black Diamond ones arent that bad. They are light too. Poles act like a zimmer frame on the last few climbs

b.harte wrote: »

Mantra are on sale on sportsshoes.com at the minute, so are trailroc and terrafly. I have 300km on my mantra and they are getting better each run. Choosing them over the inov8 for almost every trail run - superb shoe.

Cheers, just picked up a pair

lynchieboy

How does it work logistically getting from Ireland to chamonix? flights, transport, accommodation, cost etc. I had enough points to enter the UTMB 2014 and will probably have enough for 2015 but not sure about how hard or easy it is to get there and find accommodation.

grahamor

lynchieboy wrote: »

How does it work logistically getting from Ireland to chamonix? flights, transport, accommodation, cost etc. I had enough points to enter the UTMB 2014 and will probably have enough for 2015 but not sure about how hard or easy it is to get there and find accommodation.

Fly to Geneva, then get a 45 min bus (Mountain Dropoffs) to Chamonix. Accommodation is expensive if you want something central but it's possible to rent an apartment with a group of people and it usually works out cheap.

It's the busiest time of year in that town, even more than Christmas, so if you log onto booking.com now you wont find anything for less than E150 per night.

If you are an impulse buyer then the UTMB expo is trouble ! all the latest gear from the top brands.

Micilin Muc

grahamor wrote: »

Chafing - didnt reapply body glide after 50k and could barely walk last 15k because of the stinging. Got my hands on some Bepanthen at the last aid station which helped.

Have you tried taping them with zinc-oxide tape? It never falls off if you do it right - I've even gone a few days without removing it!

PaulieC

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Have you tried taping them with zinc-oxide tape? It never falls off if you do it right - I've even gone a few days without removing it!

It surely depends on where the chafing was ? I certainly wouldn't be putting ZO tape on my balls. Imagine trying to get that off ? :eek::eek::eek:

nerraw1111

Lucky b'stards.

I found Chamonix to be relatively cheap during the summer, outside of UTMB. I stayed here and would recommend it. http://www.hihostels.com/dba/hostels-Chamonix-Mont-Blanc-020011.en.htm

Tourists also get a free travel card which free travel up and down the valley on the buses and trains. It's a lovely town.

There's camp sites too.

Micilin Muc

PaulieC wrote: »

It surely depends on where the chafing was ? I certainly wouldn't be putting ZO tape on my balls. Imagine trying to get that off ? :eek::eek::eek:

:eek: Haha obviously when I see "chafing" I see "nipples". That must be awful.

grahamor

Haha, yep the chafing was around the groin area, absolutely agonizing. Plasters on the nipples are a must for me on any run longer than 30 mins.

mithril

I am in the CCC having missed out last year in the lottery. Probably for the best since I was hobbling with a stress fracture by the time the race came around.

Graham, I have two questions you might be able to help answer?
I think we are at a similar standard so would be really helpful for my race plan.

1. My understanding is that any ascents are normally hiked rather than run other than by the front of the field. What would the breakdown be for you? Also, how much time did you spend at the aid stations?

2. Not quite convinced of the benefit of poles even though I have a pair and will do some long training runs with them. You have explained the benefit above and I found them great when I hiked Kilimanjaro . Potential downside is the extra weight to carry, that your arms are tied up, and that they transfer weight from strong well developed muscles in your legs to the less developed muscles in your arm. Did you use them before you entered CCC? What proportion of the participants in the race would you say were using them?

Dunebuggy

mithril wrote: »

I am in the CCC having missed out last year in the lottery. Probably for the best since I was hobbling with a stress fracture by the time the race came around.

Graham, I have two questions you might be able to help answer?
I think we are at a similar standard so would be really helpful for my race plan.

1. My understanding is that any ascents are normally hiked rather than run other than by the front of the field. What would the breakdown be for you? Also, how much time did you spend at the aid stations?

2. Not quite convinced of the benefit of poles even though I have a pair and will do some long training runs with them. You have explained the benefit above and I found them great when I hiked Kilimanjaro . Potential downside is the extra weight to carry, that your arms are tied up, and that they transfer weight from strong well developed muscles in your legs to the less developed muscles in your arm. Did you use them before you entered CCC? What proportion of the participants in the race would you say were using them?

I completed the UTMB last year - You need Poles, It would be a very tough race without them.

Train with them and see what works - I used them on the climbs only - make sure they are easy to pack away tight as you fly down the long descents. The climbs are long long climbs - Look at the winner of last years UTMB.

Most Europeans are with poles. Ascension of the Tête de la Tronche (2584m) then Grand col Ferret (2537m) are during the first third of the race. The descents are magical enjoy them!!!

The second part leads to 3 heavy ascensions : Bovine, Tseppes and La Tête au vents. The long downhill parts that follow every ascension are as difficult for joints and muscles.

Bovine is a bitch and La Tete is tough - technical wouldn't be too many people running that front or back ... Really hope you guys get the weather.

Last tip - they do check the mandatory gear -so get used to running with it.

grahamor

I was under the impression that getting over the 2 big climbs at the start would be the worst. The 3 climbs after Champex are nasty and it will be dark too.

You would definitely hike the all ascents, so i think hiking is equally as important as getting miles on your legs during training.

Most decent backpacks that are needed to carry the gear will be able to hold foldable poles with ease. I got checked for a second torch and waterproof jacket at half way.

@mithril, if you enter number 6029 at this link you'll see how long certain parts took me. I was slow and spent more than 2 hours in total at aid stations. Never hit a wall though

Enduro

Congrats to all that are doing a race in the Festival of running! It really is a fantastic experience.

I've done 3 UTMBs in a row now, culmilnating in last year's 20th place finish, and 2nd M40. So this year I'll be moving on to new challenges (but will return sometime in the future). Anyway, I've learned plenty about the event in those 3 goes at it, and I'm more than happy to share anthing I've learned. so...

(1) Poles are a huge benifit on the climbs. 90% of runners use them, even at the front of the field. Don't leave them behind. I never put them away once I had them out. No point wasting time foldiing and unfolding, packing and retrieving. Learn how to use them properly (Nordic walking, essentially).

(2) Logistics... fligths to Geneva, one of the many mini-bus companies that ply their trade between Cham and the airport (about 25 euro each way). Book accomodation ASAP. The optimal is as close to the town centre as possible, as that's where you'll be crawling from when you finish! A group in a shared appartment works out well. Tons of shops, restaraunts etc in Cham.

(3) No matter how it looks on paper, the worst climbs and descents are the ones at the end, simply because you're so wrecked by then. Get the pacing wrong and this will be even more extreme.

(4) Train in the hills in your race configuration. Pack your rucksack with the mandatory gear and a similar amount of weight to what you will carry on the race (allowing for food, water etc) and train with it. Even better, add a little extra weight. If necessary build up to this by adding a bit more each week until you're used to climbing and descending with the full load and more. Your LSRs are your most important training runs.

(5) having said that, we don't have alps here, so the race is still going to be a killer no matter how much training you get done in Ireland.

mithril

Dunebuggy wrote: »

Last tip - they do check the mandatory gear -so get used to running with it.

Mandatory gear is fine - I understand and agree with this rule and it should be enforced.

However what does "stock of water minimum 1 litre" specified in the Obligatory Equipment section mean?

That you must have the capability of storing 1 litre of water if required, or that checks are carried out to make sure you are carrying a minimum of 1 litre of water? If the latter, this would only be practical at the exit from the aid stations?

Water is heavy to carry and I would prefer to not to carry any more than I need.
I have completed a few Ultra races greater than 10 hours in duration and I know I need very little water to get by. Normally I will only drink at the aid stations and carry nothing. On a hot day, I might carry 500ml but not a full litre.

DogSlySmile

What is the best way to travel if doing the CCC?

Is it better to fly to Geneva, travel to Chamonix and then use the buses provided to get to Courmayeur on the day of the race?

Or is better to fly closer to Courmayuer (Turin/Milan) and make my way from there?

Cant see much on the site about when/if there is registration before the race so not sure what dates to book flights

Enduro

DogSlySmile wrote: »

What is the best way to travel if doing the CCC?

Is it better to fly to Geneva, travel to Chamonix and then use the buses provided to get to Courmayeur on the day of the race?

Or is better to fly closer to Courmayuer (Turin/Milan) and make my way from there?

Cant see much on the site about when/if there is registration before the race so not sure what dates to book flights

Option (1) is better I think. Registration is in Chamonix, as is the finish. A bus to the start in courmayuer is provided for runners, as you have seen, and the vast majority use that. I can't remember what days reg was open for the CCC last year, but I suspect it was Wed and Thurs. Would recommend arriving on Thursday at the latest if you're doing the CCC, but wednesday would probably give you more time to chill and get things done at a relaxed pace beforehand.

robbicosta

I'm in for the CCC this year. Had a rollover on lottery for UTMB this year but unfortunately not the points. Really looking forward to this race now. Booked flights with Aer Lingus (only €148 return) to Geneva and accommodation in a nice hotel in Chamonix for five nights from the Wednesday. Should be enough to get used to the altitude and soak up the atmosphere of the other races.

Who's keen for training? I'll be doing most of my LSRs in the Wicklow/Dublin mountains. May venture to more rugged mountains if it's beneficial.

jfh

this looks amazing, i like to do it but not as a race.
just wondering if many people hike this trail outside of the UTMB?
if so when is the best time of year?
presume it easy enough to stick to the trail?
is there hostels along the way?
thanks

Enduro

jfh wrote: »

this looks amazing, i like to do it but not as a race.
just wondering if many people hike this trail outside of the UTMB?
if so when is the best time of year?
presume it easy enough to stick to the trail?
is there hostels along the way?
thanks

- Yes, loads. And there are plenty of other trails in the area too.
- Depends on what temperatures you like. Personally I love the heat of the summer.
- Yes, the trails are well marked in most places and obvious on the ground. They are very well mapped too.
- There are several towns and villages, and a few mountain huts as well.

nerraw1111

It's not the UTMB route but it'll give you an idea re planning and accom.

http://www.irunfar.com/2013/07/opening-the-route-a-running-adventure-through-the-italian-dolomites.html

It's a great read. I did lots of short runs around Chamomix. It's incredible. Ski lift up and lovely single track along ridges etc.

Robbie: I'd be up for some long training runs. Training for a 50 mile and utmb points. Thinking of doing Lug in a couple of weeks.

jfh

Enduro wrote: »

- Yes, loads. And there are plenty of other trails in the area too.
- Depends on what temperatures you like. Personally I love the heat of the summer.
- Yes, the trails are well marked in most places and obvious on the ground. They are very well mapped too.
- There are several towns and villages, and a few mountain huts as well.

hi Enduro, really appreciate that, hatching a plan for a week away in the summer so this would be ideal. i like the heat myself .
is there any books/maps that you recommend?

jfh

nerraw1111 wrote: »

It's not the UTMB route but it'll give you an idea re planning and accom.

http://www.irunfar.com/2013/07/opening-the-route-a-running-adventure-through-the-italian-dolomites.html

It's a great read. I did lots of short runs around Chamomix. It's incredible. Ski lift up and lovely single track along ridges etc.

Robbie: I'd be up for some long training runs. Training for a 50 mile and utmb points. Thinking of doing Lug in a couple of weeks.

ah jaysus that looks unbelievable, looks hardcore!
wonder is it tougher than the UTMB? any idea.

robbicosta

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Robbie: I'd be up for some long training runs. Training for a 50 mile and utmb points. Thinking of doing Lug in a couple of weeks.

Sounds good. I'm training for Boston at the moment so will be mostly on road until April but will be venturing up the hills for some long runs. What's the 50 miler? Are you considering the Wicklow Round? I'll probably have another shot at the Wicklow solo.

lgk

jfh wrote: »

hi Enduro, really appreciate that, hatching a plan for a week away in the summer so this would be ideal. i like the heat myself .
is there any books/maps that you recommend?

I'm planning on hiking the TMB later in the year. Cicerone do two good books one for the full TMB and another for single or multi-day walks based around Chamonix and Courmayeur. The full TMB is generally taken on as a 10/11 day hike.

For maps, the French 1:25k IGN sheets IGN 3531ET and 3630OT cover it (bar one small section of the full TMB).

Some other links:
http://www.walkingthetmb.com/
http://www.trek.org.uk/tmb.htm -
http://www.besthike.com/europe/alps/tour_mont_blanc.html

Might be worth a separate thread, somewhere else on the board.

Mebuccaneers

I got a place in the TDS this year and I can't wait!! Lots of training to be done between now and August..
I have my flight booked with Aerlingus because if booked now it works out about €80 cheaper than I paid to travel last August. I am heading over to Chamonix on Thursday 21st August and back on Monday 1st September.
I am camping here http://www.campingdesbarrats.com/camping-chamonix-fr/camping-chalet-chamonix.html until Monday 27th when a friend of mine, another TDS entrant arrives and we book into a chalet run by http://www.bigfoot-travel.co.uk for four nights and then its back to the tent for me on Friday again.
I was in Chamonix the last few years when the UTMB races were on and as was said earlier there is an amazing atmosphere around the town. Watching the start of the UTMB is just brilliant, the crowds, the music and just the whole show that is put on in general is well worth a visit to Chamonix just for that alone.


If you use Chamexpress.com for your transfers from Geneva Airport to Chamonix and return they sent me a discount code from their Facebook page that should get you 10% off your fare. Facebook2014 I just copied and pasted from the message they sent to me so don't blame me if it doesn't work...


I have been to Chamonix and the Alps many times so I think/guess/hope/know/don't know what to expect during the race but I'm sure I will have many many questions to ask as the next few months go by from the the seasoned ultra runners here.
I found this video and it shows the TDS course, some mighty looking hills and Cols to get over but with amazing scenery! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jPhfF9vL4QY


A few people mentioned walking the course of the UTMB, I backpacked the whole of the Tour du Mont Blanc (TMB) solo in 2010 and then most of it again in 2011 with a friend of mine. And it is the kind of trip that will stay with me for ever. All I can say is WOW to it and I highly recommend doing the TMB to any one and every one.
If any one has any questions regarding doing the TMB just ask and I will try and answer them for you.
Here are 3 galleries from my solo trip in 2010 if anyone is interested in seeing the type of terrain and scenery you can expect from a trip on the TMB.


https://www.facebook.com/paul.daly.3192/media_set?set=a.1267611864962.32130.1669783945&type=3


https://www.facebook.com/paul.daly.3192/media_set?set=a.1267659026141.32132.1669783945&type=3


https://www.facebook.com/paul.daly.3192/media_set?set=a.1268951658456.32495.1669783945&type=3


Cheers
Paul

DogSlySmile

I was out today running with a bit of weight in my bag (~9lbs) and found that the heavy bag threw off my centre of gravity a lot. I noticed it most on slippy downhills (descending bray head) on the muckier sections if I slipped a bit the extra weight on my back almost sent me on my arse a few times.

Heres the bag I have now - great bag and can't fault it at all except for today.

I was thinking something like this might be better at distributing the weight I have to carry more evenly. Also, with this bag I wouldn't need to dislocate my shoulder just to get at my water bottles

Any thoughts? Has anyone any experience running with a race pack like this? Is a pack like this big enough for what needs to get carried in CCC/UTMB?

Dunebuggy

Bag is pretty important. 10L Capacity is the minimum you will need to fit the mandatory gear.
Even enduro had 10L... The Salomon G-Lab bags are awesome.

http://www.salomon.com/uk/product/adv-skin-s-lab-hydro-12-set.html .... anything similar would work.

I had the OMM 20L bag - you definitely need a bag that doesn't move -
i also had a Salamon GLab 5L - highly recommend it. But too small for UTMB.

DogSlySmile

Great stuff. Thanks for the info. Definitely going to look into getting something like this. Looks like I'll probably have to buy online which is a shame, I'd like to try it on at least before I shell out.

Mebuccaneers

I have one of the Salomon bags and I find it great. It's 12L so it should be able take all of the mandatory gear. I find it very comfortable and it doesn't move about when running and it has plenty of pockets and storage options.
When it arrived I wasn't sure of the 2 soft flasks instead of normal hard bottles, but now I love them as they are very easy to drink out of without removing them from the holders as you can squeeze them as you bite the valve and they are very light as well.
It doesn't come with a Hydration Bladder but I have used the one from my old Salomon pack as there is a pouch designed for one and again it fits well and didn't interfere with the stability of the pack.
http://www.ultramarathonrunningstore.com/Salomon-Advanced-Skin-LAB-HYDRO-12-SET-Backpack-p/sallabhydro12set.htm

Nowhere in Ireland seems to have them for sale so I got mine on ebay.co.uk a bit cheaper than above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D95oVWOQvtQ

I also have one of these Ultimate Direction packs that I used a good bit before I got the Salomon.
http://www.ultramarathonrunningstore.com/Ultimate-Direction-PB-ADVENTURE-Vest-p/udpb.htm

I prefer the Salomon as the pockets are easier to access, it's lighter and I find it very comfortable. The UD pack is well made and the main compartment feels bigger than the one on the Salomon pack in the way it's designed, it has an inner and outer storage area separated by a panel and easily accessible by 2 separate zips.
Where's as the main compartment of the Salomon is just one big storage area with a small pocket inside it for a space blanket, phone or keys.
Along with the Salomon's main compartment it has a big pouch at the back along with all the other pockets that you can store hat, gloves of even a jacket or leggings in it and be able to reach it without having to take the pack off.

I try and get up to either the Dublin mountains or some where in the Wicklow mountains at least once a week if you wanted to have a look and try the packs before you buy just let me know and I can meet you.