Neymar insists 'nothing illegal' in Barcelona move amid investigation

Dempsey

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/15/neymar-nothing-illegal-barcelona-investigation?CMP=twt_gu

Neymar has insisted that there is "nothing illegal" in the contract that saw him join Barcelona in the summer despite Spain's public prosecutor asking the courts to investigate a possible case of "simulated contracts".

Neymar joined Barcelona in a deal that the Catalan club said cost €57.1m, €17.1m of which went to his former club Santos, but those figures and the destination of the money have been challenged by a Barcelona member who made a formal legal complaint to the courts. The public prosecutor has requested that the courts take his case on.

Jordi Cases, a Barcelona member, wrote to the courts claiming that the true beneficiaries of the €40m paid to a company owned by Neymar's father are unknown, while the public prosecutor has also expressed doubts about the exact amount received by Santos. Barcelona's president, Sandro Rosell, has been open about the total figures involved but insisted that confidentiality clauses applied to some aspects of the deal.

According to Barcelona's published accounts, which they handed over to the courts, the club paid €57.1m for Neymar: €17.1m to Santos and €40m to a company called N&N, owned by Neymar's father. Barcelona also paid €7.9m to secure the future rights of three Santos players and €9m for two friendlies between the two clubs.

The €17.1m was paid to Santos in order to secure Neymar in the summer of 2013. His contract at Santos was due to run out in 2014.

Barcelona had made a first payment of €10m to N&N in advance, effectively as a deposit to guarantee the completion of a €40m move, with the amount paid defined as an interest-free loan. The €10m appears in Barcelona's accounts in 2012, not in 2013.

The €40m paid to N&N was described as a "penalty clause"‚ applicable in order to complete the transfer this summer. Should Neymar have wanted to break the agreement, he would have been liable to pay that fee to Barcelona. Any club that sought to hijack the deal, as Real Madrid did, would also be confronted with that extra €40m fee.

See the link for the full article

It will be interesting to see where all the money actually went.

I think FIFA should look into the ethics, not the legalities, of deals like this and look to modernize their rules and make the process more transparent when it comes to football transfers.

Of course I know that will never happen, this is FIFA we are talking about. They love a shady deal!

I think FIFA should look into the ethics

lol :pac:

jmayo

The only thing FIFA honchos will be concerned about is the fact they didn't get a slice of the action.
At this stage football is getting as dodgy as pro boxing.
Footballers and agents are getting paid fortunes in comparison to the normal fan and yet they are engaging in dodgy, hidden or offshore deals to make even more money.

mike65

Its a pity the game is so big - just not possible to have a single central contract office through which every deal must pass through with buyers and seller and all interested parties declared. or is it? Trouble is FIFA would end up running it! :pac:

GavRedKing

Thats a lot of money for a 3rd party company to get, especially if its his old fella thats running it.

Agree with Dempsey on the ethics side of it, it wreaks, but it seems to be the done thing for promising South American players, companies and agencies seem to take stakes in them.

kryogen

Barcelona eh? surely not. A whiter then white operation. Just ask AIG

Lukker-

N&N=Neymar and Neymar? :P

€40m is a sick amount to be going to a third party. Something has to change in football this whole 3rd party ownership system reeks.

Cypher_sounds

Lukker- wrote: »

N&N=Neymar and Neymar? :P

€40m is a sick amount to be going to a third party. Something has to change in football this whole 3rd party ownership system reeks.

Really is madness, agents and the likes owning players..whatever happened to agents just representing players.

That shifty fella Kia Joorabchian comes to mind.

CSF

If you were to blank out the name of the player and the club here and just quoted the allegation, I'd have definitely picked Barca

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

If you were to blank out the name of the player and the club here and just quoted the allegation, I'd have definitely picked Barca

Have they form for these sort of deals before now? (i.e. not 3rd party deals, they are common place but deals where large parts of the fee go 'missing' or into accounts of the family etc)

Dolph Starbeam

CSF wrote: »

If you were to blank out the name of the player and the club here and just quoted the allegation, I'd have definitely picked Barca

As if its the first time its happened, its just this one is a higher profile player and club, and the fee was higher.

CSF

YayaBanana wrote: »

As if its the first time its happened, its just this one is a higher profile player and club, and the fee was higher.

I wasn't referring to this exact thing in particular. I just view Barcelona as a club run quite suspiciously.

Dolph Starbeam

CSF wrote: »

I wasn't referring to this exact thing in particular. I just view Barcelona as a club run quite suspiciously.

So if anything suspicious happanes in football you think of Barcelona, you need to open your eyes and realize that Barcelona are not the only club to be suspicious of.

bucketybuck

Any business, club, union or street gang are all the same in one way, they take their lead from the guys in charge. If the guys at the top are no fools then you generally have a well run company, but if the guys at the top are corrupt then that corruption is going to seep throughout the entire company, it will soon become a culture of corruption.

In a worldwide sense, footballs biggest problem right now is that the guys at the top are corrupt as all get out, the farce that is the Qatar world cup is evidence alone of that. Worse though, they have made it very clear that they are corrupt, and so this is now the culture of the game that they were supposed to protect.

Clubs like Barcelona are prepared to enter dodgy deals like this because that is where football is at these days, if they didn't do it other clubs would and so there is little benefit to being honest. Its also why PED's have apparently become systemic as opposed to a few drugs cheats here and there, because how can you criticise one club for cheating when the very rulers of the game are taking bribes?

Moneymaker

Barca and dodgy deals? Never!

bucketybuck

YayaBanana wrote: »

So if anything suspicious happanes in football you think of Barcelona, you need to open your eyes and realize that Barcelona are not the only club to be suspicious of.

"But everybody else was doing it" has never been a particularly good defence.

GavRedKing

Agents, the high profile ones, collect a percentage of transfer fee whcih can run into the low millions, in this case an agency, basically Neymars family have bagged 40million.

Thats nearly 2/3 of the transfer fee, thats a crazy amount.

3rd party transfers are a load of bo**ocks, I remember there was a great article regarding Falcaos transfer and it went into great depth about the groups invested in his transfer, didnt make for great reading but it does happen.

CSF

YayaBanana wrote: »

So if anything suspicious happanes in football you think of Barcelona, you need to open your eyes and realize that Barcelona are not the only club to be suspicious of.

They're not the only club I'd think of, but they're the first.

ArmaniJeanss

Kind of bizarre that people are giving out about the contract in the OP, as that isn't what the issue is.

The allegation seems to be that the published contract is a fake, a 'simulated contract'.

Turtwig

Falcao and Neymar make for fascinating case studies. Obviously FIFA aren't go to do anything about it but the system of 3rd party 'player ownership' is a bit of a farce.

GavRedKing

Jernal wrote: »

Falcao and Neymar make for fascinating case studies. Obviously FIFA aren't go to do anything about it but the system of 3rd party 'player ownership' is a bit of a farce.

Thats my main issue, could be any player or any club, but I'd like to see it stopped, cant see it changing any time soon though.

kksaints

CSF wrote: »

They're not the only club I'd think of, but they're the first.

Nah. Porto would be the first team that I'd think of.

jmayo

kryogen wrote: »

Barcelona eh? surely not. A whiter then white operation. Just ask AIG

Funny isn't it how the country who unexpectantly won the world cup (cough cough) is also involved in the sponsorship of that club.

Cypher_sounds

Neymar's reaction to these claims

JPA

jmayo wrote: »

Funny isn't it how the country who unexpectantly won the world cup (cough cough) is also involved in the sponsorship of that club.

What's funny about it? They also own PSG.

Dempsey

http://sulia.com/worldwidetransfers/f/fa06189e-77ee-484d-b0f2-c7004e992576/?action=share&source=tw&guid=fa06189e-77ee-484d-b0f2-c7004e992576&btn=small&form_factor=desktop

The legal action by Jordi Cases against Sandro Rosell for the misappropriation of €40 million is uncovering all of the figures involved in the Neymar deal. New documents came to light yesterday which were previously unknown to the 'Culé' member. Whilst MARCA reported last week on the existence of a €10 million payment, yesterday 'El Mundo' revealed the existence several contracts in favour of the company Neymar & Neymar.

With this new evidence, the transaction to sign the player now amounts to €90.6 million for a variety of concepts. Based on this, it also becomes clear that the Neymar camp - the player and company owned by his father - will receive €105.1 million over the next five years. That is an average of €21 million gross per season.

In short, Barcelona has paid a total of €90.6 million broken down as follows: €17.1 million to Santos for federation rights in 2013; €40 million to Neymar & Neymar for compensation for federation rights from 2014 onwards; €7.9 million for purchase options on three promising Santos players; €4.5 million for a friendly with the Brazilian club; a €10 million signing-on bonus; and the €11.1 million to the Neymar camp mentioned above. barca found guilty in neymar deal then they will be banned from ucl and 22 points will be deducted from their current la liga campaign

If Barca found guilty in Neymar deal then they will be banned from Uefa Champions League and 22 points will be deducted from their current La Liga Campaign.

I doubt that will happen but the outcome will be interesting!

barone

guilty of what exactly? im confused

Turtwig

barone wrote: »

guilty of what exactly? im confused

Boring over passing.

kryogen

It is amusing that Madrid spending big gets used as a stick to beat them by the poor rivals

90million and 105million over the next 5 years, brilliant

Corholio

kryogen wrote: »

It is amusing that Madrid spending big gets used as a stick to beat them by the poor rivals

90million and 105million over the next 5 years, brilliant

Shh but it's the 'way' the game is supposed to be played.

upandcumming

I need Andersonisgod's take on this.

Turtwig

upandcumming wrote: »

I need Andersonisgod's take on this.

Barcelona consists of Lawyers passionate in the Barcelona way. Lawyers that understand the philosophy and culture of this historic club. Lawyers who will lay down their lives (and integrity) to defend the club. Mes que un club. These lawyers will show that the prosecution is heavily biased and financially back by Madrid. They will restore the purity and awe that the public desperately seek in all matters of a legal nature. They will revolutionise the legal world and become known as the greatest lawyers of all time! Mark your calendar for this day, this era, will live in history. Neymar will grow to be one of the greatest players of all time and Barcelona's legal team will become the legends who helped ensure that possibility, and parity and fairness will restored in the football; the game that Barcelona play in the beautiful way - the right way!

Not enough hyperbole though.:(

Corholio

Rosell set to resign!

Blaming exhaustion apparently :rolleyes:

TheTownie

Corholio wrote: »

Rosell set to resign!

Blaming exhaustion apparently :rolleyes:

Hes jumping before the real shít storm starts. Some gas reports out of Spain and Brazil today.

Sport Witness ‏@Sport_Witness 1h
Reports in Spain say Neymar has a contract clause which entitles him to €2.5m for playing where the coach wants, rather than where he wants.

Sport Witness ‏@Sport_Witness 1h
These silly extra payments to Neymar look like they're a way of hiding true transfer fee and therefore swindling the guy who was due a %.

Sport Witness ‏@Sport_Witness 1h
Reports in Brazil say Barca pay for Neymar's pals to visit him by private jet every 2 months. It's in his contract!

mike65

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/feb/20/barcelona-charged-tax-fraud-over-neymar-signing

Turtwig

Innocent until proven guilty and all that. But Christ this just keeps getting better and better!

*grabs popcorn*

CSF

Jernal wrote: »

Innocent until proven guilty and all that. But Christ this just keeps getting better and better!

*grabs popcorn*

Dodge as **** alright, I thought you were Barca though, no?

Turtwig

CSF wrote: »

Dodge as **** alright, I thought you were Barca though, no?

Nah neutral on a case by case basis. I did devote a higher proportion of free time to their games to others when they were at the peak of their powers and teams hadn't copped on how to defend against them. Messi, Iniesta and Xavi. It was an obvious choice really.

Case by case because sometimes I'll favour one team over another. For instance, supported Arsenal against Bayern. Liverpool against Arsenal. If I am supporting anyone as a trend at the moment it's probably Atletico Madrid. But really prefer being neutral. Just enjoying watching the game a lot. Although BT Sports are kind of pissing me off. :mad:

Hmmm

A company owned by Neymar Jr received €40m when the Brazilian moved from Santos, whose share was only €17.1m, prompting the club's fans and officials to question the deal.

That's a lot of money "floating" about!

DoctorGonzo08

upandcumming wrote: »

I need Andersonisgod's take on this.

I'd imagine it would be something along the lines of:

"False prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master (Xavi presumably) who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. For if God (Xavi again I'm guessing, possibly Messi) did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world (pre tikki takki), but preserved Noah (Guardiola), a herald of righteousness, with seven others (Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets, Pique, Alves & Valdes), when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly (Anyone who doesn't look in blind admiration on Barca and anything they may or may not be assosiated with)".

2 Andersonisgod (Peter) 2:1-22

kryogen

I imagine he will avoid this subject like the plague tbh

Mars Bar

And he doesn't have to comment on it if he doesn't want to. This singling out of AIG on anything Barcelona is getting tiresome and it stops here.

Sheepy99

Mars Bar wrote: »

And he doesn't have to comment on it if he doesn't want to. This singling out of AIG on anything Barcelona is getting tiresome and it stops here.

Yes teacher.

kryogen

wow

The_Kew_Tour

In fairness Barca have always said "More than a club"

Skylinehead

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9183029/Barcelona-have-paid-an-extra-13million-euros-in-tax-on-Neymar-deal

I see. They've done nothing wrong....but decide to pay an extra 13.6 million quid to the government for the craic.

More than just a club

Turtwig

That money was just resting in their account.

Kirby

Was it Més que un Account?

Sheepy99

Serious sanctions had better be carried out.

ie - no preferential treatment just because it's Barca (won't hold my breath)

kryogen

Neymar cost more then Bale yet?

DoctorGonzo08

Sheepy99 wrote: »

Serious sanctions had better be carried out.

ie - no preferential treatment just because it's Barca (won't hold my breath)

This is it exactly. Regardless of who the club are there are sanctions in place to punish those that blatantly break the rules. If this was the case of any of the 4 English teams in this years CL that had done this they would be smacked with a hefty point deduction and fine. Arguable that they would enforce kicking them out of the current comp, but the point deduction would all but ensure they wouldn't be taking part in next years one. And it is because of the omission from next years CL that will stop UEFA pushing for point deductions to ensure they do take part.

I wouldn't be surprised if UEFA deem the matter over as a result of taxes being voluntarily donated, and seek no further action.