Meter Readings have abnormally increased

techdiver

Hi,

We switched from Electric Ireland to Airtricity in September.

Previously we would on average have a bill of circa €100 every 2 months with electric Ireland. That work out at roughly 400 units every 2 months. This has been consistent for the last 4 - 5 years (we are in a 1 bed apartment).

Since September our meter reading have shot up. Between September and November it registered 1300 units roughly. Between November 6th and today it has registered 1503 units! It seems to be accelerating! I got a reading yesterday at 4pm and it was 15025 and by 9am this morning it has gone up to 15103! That's 78 units in 16 hours, most of which overnight. We have no new electrical appliances and our usage habits have remain the same.

We had an electrician out today who cannot find anything wrong with what is being used in our home. So the only other option is that the meter is faulty. I rang Airtricity and they said they can send some one from ESB out, but if there is no problem with the meter it will be a €165 charge.

There is no way we could be using this electricity all of a sudden, in fact it would be more than likely impossible to use that amount of power if we tried. The usage between yesterday and today would equate to us having the electric kettle on full time for the 24 hour period....

Has anyone else out there had a similar issue? I read that meter are "unlikely" to be faulty, but what else could it be?

Davy

I'm guessing that all the bills are based on actual readings?

You could get a monitor to check your usage yourself before checking the meter, as you said its unlikely it's faulty. I'm presuming it's not even that old if in apartment. Search for owl or Watson to get an idea. Plenty of types available, and roughly €50, although some would be cheaper.

techdiver

Hi Davy,

Thanks for the reply.

We did another test there between 12pm an 2pm. We read the meter at 12pm and then turned all power off in the apartment from the fuse board, (all breakers etc) and then got another meter reading there a few minutes ago and it had increased by another unit during the down time. Would this not indicate something wrong with the meter?

Also, talking to one of the facilities guys that looks after the development, he did say that a meter from another apartment had to be replaced recently as it was faulty.

More evidence to this would be the fact that we apparently used 78 unites between 4pm yesterday and 10am today. Surely that impossible. You would have to run the electric kettle non stop for 26 hours to achieve that usage.

cast_iron

Did your electrician not check to see if the meter was running when the board was powered down? He should have.
The main fuse should have been switched off and the wiring of the board check.

A faulty meter is rare, but if the house wiring it fine and there's no hidden appliance using all the power, then you will have to go down the route of getting it checked.

techdiver

cast_iron wrote: »

Did your electrician not check to see if the meter was running when the board was powered down? He should have.
The main fuse should have been switched off and the wiring of the board check.

A faulty meter is rare, but if the house wiring it fine and there's no hidden appliance using all the power, then you will have to go down the route of getting it checked.

Hi,

The meters in our development are very difficult to read. They are new digital ones and instead of the old rotating disk, there are LED's that flash with a digital readout for the meter reading itself. Aparently the shorter the time between flashes the more power being drawn i.e. More flashes = faster rotating disk. According the the electrician the LED's are still supposed to flash even when power is disconnected. The issue I have is when I tested this yesterday, there was roughly 12 seconds between flashes when we disconnected the power, but when compared to our neighbour across the hall, his meter only flashed every 15 seconds even though they were using power...

It's all very odd.

ted1

techdiver wrote: »

Hi,

We switched from Electric Ireland to Airtricity in September.

Previously we would on average have a bill of circa €100 every 2 months with electric Ireland. That work out at roughly 400 units every 2 months. This has been consistent for the last 4 - 5 years (we are in a 1 bed apartment).

Since September our meter reading have shot up. Between September and November it registered 1300 units roughly. Between November 6th and today it has registered 1503 units! It seems to be accelerating! I got a reading yesterday at 4pm and it was 15025 and by 9am this morning it has gone up to 15103! That's 78 units in 16 hours, most of which overnight. We have no new electrical appliances and our usage habits have remain the same.

We had an electrician out today who cannot find anything wrong with what is being used in our home. So the only other option is that the meter is faulty. I rang Airtricity and they said they can send some one from ESB out, but if there is no problem with the meter it will be a €165 charge.

There is no way we could be using this electricity all of a sudden, in fact it would be more than likely impossible to use that amount of power if we tried. The usage between yesterday and today would equate to us having the electric kettle on full time for the 24 hour period....

Has anyone else out there had a similar issue? I read that meter are "unlikely" to be faulty, but what else could it be?

power down switch board, does the meter still count up? Yes =Faulty Meter or the meter belongs to a different apartment.

if it doesn't then stick on a grip on Amp meter around the cable by the meter and see what amps are being read. then multiply that by 230 and it'll give you a kW reading.

if it doesn't match the meter reading then there the meter is faulty.

techdiver

ted1 wrote: »

power down switch board, does the meter still count up? Yes =Faulty Meter or the meter belongs to a different apartment

Hi, yeah, we did this today for 2 hours and the meter increased from 15107 to 15108 while everything was powered down, i.e. all circuit breakers and main fuse disconnected. So in essence it used 1 unit in 2 hours while powered down. I'm thinking of trying it for longer tomorrow. Maybe turning it off completely before going to work and checking after.

techdiver

One other point is that we have no immersion etc and heating and hot water are included in the rent (the development has a separate system), so all we need to power is the lights, TV, PC, kettle, fridge, cooker, microwave and kettle, so in my opinion there is no possible way we are using that amount of electricity.

ted1

Looks like your meters faulty or your looking at the wrong meter.

frankmul

Sounds like a faulty meter but there should be a meter number on the bill, check if the meter has the same number. You'd hate to have been looking at the wrong meter all along

techdiver

ted1 wrote: »

Looks like your meters faulty or your looking at the wrong meter.

Definetly he right meter. Double checked the meter serial number and all. I'm OCD about these things

The annoying thing is because we are in an apartment complex I can only get access to the room where the meters are during the day. It would be much easier to run tests with complete access.

I think I'll try and get my hands on an energy meter to attach to the incoming line in my apartment so I can cross reference the measurements also.

techdiver

Does anyone know how the ESB networks guy will go about testing the meter? The reason I ask is the electrician I had out today assumed the meter was "fine" based on the fact the power coming from the meter was consistent with what is being drawn from the apartment. But surely that wouldn't be evidence enough that the meter is ok? One would assume that if the meter is malfunctioning the power draw would be correct and the meter would be registering it incorrectly??

Would they attach a second meter to the line and leave it for some time and then cross reference the results? I would assume that is the only way to test for sure?

ted1

techdiver wrote: »

Definetly he right meter. Double checked the meter serial number and all. I'm OCD about these things

The annoying thing is because we are in an apartment complex I can only get access to the room where the meters are during the day. It would be much easier to run tests with complete access.

I think I'll try and get my hands on an energy meter to attach to the incoming line in my apartment so I can cross reference the measurements also.

I wouldn't go on the serial number. It could be wrong from the start.

The electrician should have verified the load by using a amp meter or kwh meter

Davy

techdiver wrote: »

Would they attach a second meter to the line and leave it for some time and then cross reference the results? I would assume that is the only way to test for sure?

Usually thats what they do. I think left for a week or ten days.

frankmul

I'm not familiar with digital meter the esb use but I assume that the LED pulses a number of times for every kw of electricic used. This maybe stated on the front of the meter (10 imp/kw). If you can measure the current going through the meter and also time how long it takes to complete 10 pulses. You should be able to compare actual power used with measured power.
To test a meter, the esb used to remove it and connect it in series with a test meter for a number of days under load. This was done at the esb premises. Not sure what is done nowadays.

sparcocars

The network technician from esb networks will either connect another meter in series with your current one or else hook up a machine for testing the meter. The machine measures the current and voltage to calculate the kwh being used and then a sensor is placed over the flashing led to detect each time it flashes. The machine can then compare actual kwh's being used and the kwh's being registered by the meter.

frankmul

sparcocars wrote: »

The network technician from esb networks will either connect another meter in series with your current one or else hook up a machine for testing the meter. The machine measures the current and voltage to calculate the kwh being used and then a sensor is placed over the flashing led to detect each time it flashes. The machine can then compare actual kwh's being used and the kwh's being registered by the meter.

sparcocars, do you know if the meter led should flash if there is no current flow. I thought that it should only flash as power is used.

ted1

frankmul wrote: »

sparcocars, do you know if the meter led should flash if there is no current flow. I thought that it should only flash as power is used.

No it shouldn't , it represent x amounts of units

Zen65

With the main incomer fuse removed on your fuseboard, the electrician should have confirmed no current through the meter, and no movement of the digits.

It is possible that somebody else has tapped into your supply between the meter and your fuseboard.

Z

techdiver

ted1 wrote: »

No it shouldn't , it represent x amounts of units

Ted, is that the case for sure? Because ours definitely doesn't stop flashing when we disconnect the main fuse.

Zen65 wrote: »

With the main incomer fuse removed on your fuseboard, the electrician should have confirmed no current through the meter, and no movement of the digits.

It is possible that somebody else has tapped into your supply between the meter and your fuseboard.

Z

It's unlikely. We live in a fairly well maintained apartment complex. The electrician said he tested the power going from the meter to our apartment with various things being switched on/off, including the main fuse.

I got another meter reading this morning. Another 25 units used yesterday, considering 2 hours of the day the main fuse was off and the only appliance used last night was the TV and computer. No kettle, cooker etc and there was no one there for most of the day.

I got the reading at 9am. I switched the main fuse off at 8.55am. I will get another reading at 4pm. If it has increased again, it must be the meter?

Michael D Not Higgins

Definitely something wrong. I, like you OP, live in a one bed and we use ~400units every 3 months (but we have gas so that would reduce our cooking costs in comparison with you). It's easy to see your baseline usage is about 6 or 7 units a day. This suddenly increasing 3 or 4 fold is alarming.

Hopefully you can demonstrate the faulty meter to Airtricity and get your money back.

techdiver

So this morning at 9am the meter reading was 15128 and I switched off the main breaker in the house at 8.55am.

Just got another reading there a few minutes ago and it has increased to 15130 and the LED is flashing every 12 seconds. So it used 2 units with the power disconnected.

It must be the meter so.

I'm going to get airtricity to send the ESB engineer out now as I'm confident that's the problem.

Michael D Not Higgins

techdiver wrote: »

So this morning at 9am the meter reading was 15128 and I switched off the main breaker in the house at 8.55am.

Just got another reading there a few minutes ago and it has increased to 15130 and the LED is flashing every 12 seconds. So it used 2 units with the power disconnected.

It must be the meter so.

I'm going to get airtricity to send the ESB engineer out now as I'm confident that's the problem.

Did they say they would refund you for the bills that were over your usual usage? If so, how are they going to calculate it?

techdiver

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Did they say they would refund you for the bills that were over your usual usage? If so, how are they going to calculate it?

The girl on the phone wasn't sure of the specifics, but she said there should be a refund for the false charges.

I'll update the thread as I find out more as it may be a useful point of reference for others in the future.

Michael D Not Higgins

techdiver wrote: »

The girl on the phone wasn't sure of the specifics, but she said there should be a refund for the false charges.

I'll update the thread as I find out more as it may be a useful point of reference for others in the future.

Thanks, I'd like to know exactly how switching provider ended up with a faulty meter (or was it a coincidence).

techdiver

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Thanks, I'd like to know exactly how switching provider ended up with a faulty meter (or was it a coincidence).

In fairness I imagine it was just a co-incidence..... I hope. The meter is the same one and the readings are taken by ESB so nothing changed on that front.

I just hope I don't get jerked around on this. Funnily enough when I told the agent on the phone that my meter had registered 2 units in 7 hours with everything switched off she initially said that it sounds normal because the meter would be "winding down" or something. She then realised her mistake as she though I just meant the number on the extreme right of the old meters that used to cycle quickly, this was after I explained that the usage would be equivalent to having a 2000W electric kettle on for a solid hour!

If it turns out to be a faulty meter, I wonder is it a case that the newer electronic meters are more liable to faults than the older meters? The reason I say this is, this would be the second meter in our block that needed replacing due to faults.

freddyuk

Seems odd the meter went faulty after changing suppliers as said before but it does appear to be something badly wrong.
I am sure you have been cutting back on your usage over the last few months due to the increasing prices so in fact your recent average consumption will be less than your previous average bills so of course you cannot base any refund on previous usage..... I would expect if the meter is found to be faulty there will be compensation on top of any refund for the time you have spent tracing the fault. I would also be taking photos of readings with supply off ensuring the meter number (MPAN) is on there to back any claim........

techdiver

freddyuk wrote: »

Seems odd the meter went faulty after changing suppliers as said before but it does appear to be something badly wrong.
I am sure you have been cutting back on your usage over the last few months due to the increasing prices so in fact your recent average consumption will be less than your previous average bills so of course you cannot base any refund on previous usage..... I would expect if the meter is found to be faulty there will be compensation on top of any refund for the time you have spent tracing the fault. I would also be taking photos of readings with supply off ensuring the meter number (MPAN) is on there to back any claim........

I'm assuming the meter fault and changing suppliers is a co-incidence.

I don't have complete access to the room with the meters. A maintenance man working for the apartment complexes management company lets me in now and again and also texts me on meters readings, but he is a witness to all of this anyway.

We haven't been cutting back on usage at all as we didn't realise until now (it's only been a few months though) as we we're on the airtricity budget plan. I have records of bills from Electric Ireland for 12 months prior to switching, so that's evidence of our general usage. Also, I knew as soon as I inspected the readings that they were bull**** as we haven't changed our usage habits one bit, nor have we purchased any new electrical items recently. Never mind the fact the the readings are treble or quadruple what we normally use.

I have purchased a energy meter today and am going to fit it in my apartment to track my power usage, just to be extra OCD about the whole thing.

techdiver

Ok,

So i purchased a efergy meter yesterday and fitted it to my incoming power supply yesterday evening. It was quite easy and it works brilliantly. I tested various appliances around the house and my usage is normal.

I left it over night and checked again this morning. Between 6pm yesterday and 8am this morning the efergy meter registered as using just over 6 units (oven, kettle etc, were used). I got another meter reading this morning and in the same time frame the meter registered 15 units! So that's 2.5 times above my actual usage.

freddyuk

techdiver wrote: »

I'm assuming the meter fault and changing suppliers is a co-incidence.

I don't have complete access to the room with the meters. A maintenance man working for the apartment complexes management company lets me in now and again and also texts me on meters readings, but he is a witness to all of this anyway.

We haven't been cutting back on usage at all as we didn't realise until now (it's only been a few months though) as we we're on the airtricity budget plan. I have records of bills from Electric Ireland for 12 months prior to switching, so that's evidence of our general usage. Also, I knew as soon as I inspected the readings that they were bull**** as we haven't changed our usage habits one bit, nor have we purchased any new electrical items recently. Never mind the fact the the readings are treble or quadruple what we normally use.

I have purchased a energy meter today and am going to fit it in my apartment to track my power usage, just to be extra OCD about the whole thing.

Read between my lines...................;)

techdiver

Just another update.

I have being trying in vain to get Airtricity to log a meter check request to the ESB since last week. On two occasions the request was sent through incorrectly to the ESB and was not being actioned.

I have rang Airtricity and ESB on numerous occasions every day since last Wednesday to get this sorted, to no avail.

Finally, today I have gotten confirmation that the request has been sent through to the ESB and some one will be calling out. I couldn't be told when, but at least there is progress.

I also did some further tests with the aid of an electrician on Monday. I took a measurement in my apartment and then removed the meter and went down to the meter room in the car park area and the electrician removed the case front over the ESB meters where I could attach my home meter to the line coming from the ESB meter. The reading of the usage in my apartment exactly matched the reading I took from the line coming from the ESB meter. So that leaves me in no doubt that it is indeed the ESB meter that is at fault.

I have monitored it daily and it is roughly registering 3 times the actual usage.

It's funny considering the widely felt opinion that meters don't (or rarely) fail as this seems to be the second such occurrence in our block alone. As some one who works in software, I would always be sceptical of such claims of infallibility of any piece of technology!

2011

techdiver wrote: »

It's funny considering the widely felt opinion that meters don't (or rarely) fail as this seems to be the second such occurrence in our block alone.

The fact remains that ESB meters are very robust and rarely fail.
Although there may be two examples of faulty meters in your apartment block that is hardly a fair representation of all of the meters installed across the country.

Anyway I hope this is resolved to your satisfaction soon.

ted1

2011 wrote: »

The fact remains that ESB meters are very robust and rarely fail.
Although there may be two examples of faulty meters in your apartment block that is hardly a fair representation of all of the meters installed across the country.

Anyway I hope this is resolved to your satisfaction soon.

I do a lot if bill verification for large energy users (bills between 5k and 2M) and have seen only seen meters fail a half dozen times.
Revenue class meters are generally fairly good.

techdiver

ted1 wrote: »

I do a lot if bill verification for large energy users (bills between 5k and 2M) and have seen only seen meters fail a half dozen times.
Revenue class meters are generally fairly good.

As a matter of interest, what is the breakdown of the meters used? Are the electronic ones more susceptible to faults?

I suppose the reason I ask is the ones in our development are electronic and in a single block of apartments 2 failed.

cast_iron

I suppose it's always possible that a "bad batch" was made with a higher than usual failure rate.

Could your electrician that called out not establish if current was flowing in or out of the mater when the main switch on your fuseboard was switched off?
I would have thought that was a relatively easy way to check for a fault. Perhaps the individual live or neutral in/out of the meter are not accessible with a grip meter?

Zen65

techdiver wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what is the breakdown of the meters used? Are the electronic ones more susceptible to faults?

I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that modern electronic meters have a much shorter life than the old electromechanical types. Something like a 70% shorter life. Cannot recall whether the issue is the battery or if there is another reason for it.

Two meters failing in the one building suggests that ESB Network bought a bad batch of meters.

Davy

Zen65 wrote: »

I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that modern electronic meters have a much shorter life than the old electromechanical types. Something like a 70% shorter life. Cannot recall whether the issue is the battery or if there is another reason for it.

Two meters failing in the one building suggests that ESB Network bought a bad batch of meters.

It would be Iskra supplying the bad batch more so than esb buying it, but ye I think the newer meters wont last as long. The old ones I think have a lifespan of at least 30 years.

The newer ones have a few different manufacturers so gets harder to differentiate from whats good or bad. Iskra, Elster, Actaris are 3 makes I can think of but think there is more out there.

ted1

techdiver wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what is the breakdown of the meters used? Are the electronic ones more susceptible to faults?

I suppose the reason I ask is the ones in our development are electronic and in a single block of apartments 2 failed.

Generally there the electric ones. Most our clients would be on quarterly hourly billing and would require comms back to Esb networks aswell as times stamping.


Just found this which covers most meters used by ESBN
http://www.energyineducation.ie/Energy_In_Education/Information_for_Schools/Resources_and_links/Factsheet_-_How_to_Read_Your_Electricity_Meter.pdf

garroff

At the meter position there should be an unsealed switchfuses on the mains going to your flat. When you check read your meter you should switch off this switch. This will ensure that your meter is not supplying landing lights, communal tv, cctv etc.

A meter check may prove the meter correct, my guess is that it will, PUT THIS DOES NOT PROVE THAT YOUR FLAT IS USING THE ELECTRICITY.
With the switch fuse off at the central meter position your meter will show no advance,,,,,,ever.
So read, switch off for a few hours and read again.
Let us know how you get on.

sawdoubters

what are they charging per kw

aircity seems to have different charges,and higher standing yearly charge


http://www.bonkers.ie/compare-gas-electricity-prices/

cast_iron

garroff wrote: »

This will ensure that your meter is not supplying landing lights, communal tv, cctv etc.

I don't think that applies in this case as the OP stated that the sharp increase in electricity use began very recently out of the blue.
It's highly unlikely that authorised work was carried out taking a supply from midway down a main incomer cable to a residential consumer unit for a landlord supply.
If this is the cause, it's more likely to be as a result of un-authorised work/theft of supply by someone. However, a faulty meter would appear a more likely culprit.

JOSman

One unit used every two hours. That's 12 units in one day. Over a month that's approximately 360 units paid for without any power being used in the apartment?

techdiver

garroff wrote: »

At the meter position there should be an unsealed switchfuses on the mains going to your flat. When you check read your meter you should switch off this switch. This will ensure that your meter is not supplying landing lights, communal tv, cctv etc.

A meter check may prove the meter correct, my guess is that it will, PUT THIS DOES NOT PROVE THAT YOUR FLAT IS USING THE ELECTRICITY.
With the switch fuse off at the central meter position your meter will show no advance,,,,,,ever.
So read, switch off for a few hours and read again.
Let us know how you get on.

I already did such tests using an Efergy Meter. The power drain is consistent from both ends.

The meter looks "banjackeds" too, as the LCD readout is becoming so faint that it is difficult to read.

We also powered down the apartment and it registered roughly 1 unit every 2 hours.

garroff

Can you get meter to stop?. When/if meter is being tested, as part of test have outgoing tails removed and
meter still energised. This will show if meter is clocking up units on no load.

techdiver

JOSman wrote: »

One unit used every two hours. That's 12 units in one day. Over a month that's approximately 360 units paid for without any power being used in the apartment?

That's exactly my findings alright. Give or take. Based on my readings cross referenced with the actual ESB meter it is running anywhere between 2.5 and 6 times our actual usage.

Date|Meter Reading|Comments
15/01/2014|15103|10am
15/01/2014|15107|12pm
15/01/2014|15108|2pm with power turned off from 12pm!
16/01/2014|15128|9am
16/01/2014|15130|4pm with power turned off all day
16/01/2014|15131|6pm with power turned off all day
17/01/2014|15146|8am. Home meter attached and it registered 6 units used between 6pm and 8am. ESB meter registered 16 units in that time
17/01/2014|15149|4pm. Home meter registered 0.5 units used, but ESB registered 3 units used.
20/01/2014|15196|3pm. From 8am on 17th - 3pm on 20th ESB meter registered 50 units. Home meter registered 16 units in this time. Looks like a factor a 3 over charge. Baseline for home meter at this time is 20.26 kWh since installation on 16th at 6pm.

techdiver

So, the ESB guys called out today and couldn't even read the meter as the LCD display had completely failed now. We had noticed it starting to fail over the last few weeks.

They have replaced it now and will send a report of the failure in.

He also stated that the electronic meters are "very" unreliable as compared to the old meters. He said with the old metres you could be 99.9% sure the meter is ok, but with the electronic ones you can't be.

At least I have confirmation that the meter was faulty. I will have to make sure that airtricity average out our usage since September based on our previous usage.

garroff

It looks like ESB Networks, the meter installer/supplier have a major problem. How many of these meters are installed?. How many will they replace?. How will they compensate this customer for the time/inconvenience caused?

ted1

I wouldn't call it a major problem

garroff

why not?

ted1

garroff wrote: »

why not?

Why So? I don't think that there is that many meters being affected for it to be called a major issue

garroff

Agree. If there are few of these meters on the system....no problem. But as a billing company the last thing you want is for your customers to doubt the accuracy of the meters.
Networks will know exactly how many and the location of this type of meter.