Is ADHD a myth?

Ave Sodalis

Didn't Leon Eisenberg not say that it was a good example of a highly over diagnosed diesease?
Leon Eisenberg spent much of his life studying ADHD and is considered the "father" of the disease. It's not really sure if he says it's fake or just over diagnosed.
Either way, in my own experience, I've never really seen a child that had a behaviour problem that couldn't be explained in any other way. Any that I've seen usually have something else that is more likely the explanation but ADHD is easy. It's easy to stick that label on them and drug them til they can't function anymore. Whether ADHD actually does exist though, I don't know.

Fudge You

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Just a label for misbehaving kids.

Has to be a reason for misbehaving.

Can't be bold child or bad parenting.

South Park did a brilliant episode on this. Some guy discovered the cure for ADHD. It was slapping a kid who misbehaved.

What episode is that?

darkpagandeath

hardCopy wrote: »

There's a pill for dyslexia now?

Or maybe we've finally realised that not all kids respond to the same methods of education. If we need to label kids with formal diagnoses in order to allocate proper resources to their schools and classrooms then so be it.

Ofc there is no pill for it... but lets just forget for a minute these conditions only popped out of the woodwork when there was a magical pill, treatment, book someone was trying to flog you. I bet some people around here swear by yakult......... When did bad parenting or bold children turn into some new fangled medical condition. This would be the same crowed that let the internet/tv bring up there children then complain ?

Ave Sodalis

NegativeCreep wrote: »

It's real. Can be caused by Phenylketonuria which leads to improper brain development and function at best. You can't say you don't believe in something just because you've no experience with it.

Phenylketonuria causes severe brain damage and seizures and is very rare... not something that's seen with ADHD

rawn

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Ofc there is no pill for it... but lets just forget for a minute these conditions only popped out of the woodwork when there was a magical pill, treatment, book someone was trying to flog you. I bet some people around here swear by yakult......... When did bad parenting or bold children turn into some new fangled medical condition. This would be the same crowed that let the internet/tv bring up there children then complain ?

Reminds me of a thread on here a while back, a newspaper article where a mother was crying that she couldn't afford to feed her kids healthy food on the dole so just fed them chocolate and junk food, then said she needed help cos one of them had ADHD :rolleyes:

EDIT. Found the article, I was mistaken, it was a different woman talking about the ADHD in the same article

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/the-kids-are-going-to-starve-then-they-have-health-problems-1.1544207

fartyarse

Spoke to my GP at length about this, and he is fairly certain it is absolutely a condition. He also stated that links have been found between the condition and feeding a child convenience food consistently (think E numbers and preservatives).

He also stated that he has only ever witnessed the condition in children coming from financially disadvantaged backgrounds, which may be juxtaposed with the processed foods findings.

biko

They should spell it ADDH




/Mr CDO

woodoo

An excuse for brats.

EuskalHerria

Fudge You wrote: »

What episode is that?

run_Forrest_run

Esteban Huge Sequel wrote: »

My brother and SIL have a young fella who I have never once known to be disciplined past a half arsed threat that is never followed through on. In all the time I've spent around said nephew, I've witnessed him being extremely misbehaved and naughty but NEVER ONCE have I seen him be hyperactive or overly giddy, just plain undisciplined and bold. So imagine my surprise when SIL came along a few weeks ago, roaring that he had been diagnosed with ADHD and how it explained all his bad behaviour for the last few years and basically just absolving herself and my brother of their lazy shìte parenting :rolleyes: She was raving about how the medication was working wonders and he's now basically the perfect child (apart from a handful of awful side effects but who cares about that, right?). On meeting the young fella myself, I did notice that he was less naughty than usual, but only because he was so doped up that he hardly had the energy to keep his eyes open

So yeah, ADHD my arse :mad:

very interesting, how did your brother and sister in-law have the child assessed? Did he receive assessment from a psychiatrist for example?

I'm inclined to think it does exist in some form but it is so hard to diagnose given the variables etc. Either way I also feel it is hugely over-diagnosed for financial gain/assistance.

Jimoslimos

I would agree to a large extent, add Asperger Syndrome to the list as well.

Why the need to medicalise what are simply differences in ability or personality? Should those who aren't good at sports be routinely prescribed anabolic steroids and HGH?

zanador

I have read this with interest as I am always interested to hear what the general public thinks about adhd.

My son is 8 and was diagnosed nearly 2 years ago. When he turned 7 it became apparent that his learning wasn't in line with his perceived iq, nor was his ability to stay on task developing at the same rate as the.other children in his class and his impulse control was nearly non existent. He was talking about killing himself and hating himself which was hard to hear, as you can imagine.

Once he was diagnosed things started to improve for him immensely. Adhd is about concentration, and in my son's case he is hyper active prevalent, so he finds it hard to sit still. It is NOT an excuse for bad behaviour, but I have had to redefine by standards in order to parent effectively. So, there is no rudeness, cursing, anger issues allowed and that's non negotiable - but I am aware that he finds it difficult not to interrupt and shout out, so I am patient and explain over and over that he can't do that

I have always fed him a clean diet and have always disciplined him. After his diagnosis I started making excuses for bad behaviour and letting stuff slide because 'he has adhd' but learnt quickly that that didn't work and now the line is ' I know it's hard but you have to work harder at some things than other people do'. I am tough on him because the world ain't going to make excuses for him and he is the one who has to adapt as none else will. I often feel sorry for him but can't show it and that's hard for me.

Imagine being a child that has social issues, that is bewildered by the rules around him. Yet, as you don't understand people are shouting,at you and telling you you're bad and kids are bullying you. And having to take it because hitting is wrong, or the anger that you feel will be another reason to judge you and make you out to be a bad person. That is my son's reality. And he handles it so much better than you, or I ever would. He tries so hard to be kind and sit still and fit into our world and I am very proud ofhim.

So, adhd, over-diagnosed - yes. Badly managed - yes. But it is very real, whatever the physical causes of it, and when you sit there saying 'give them a slap' or 'blame the parents' please take amoment to consider that there are wonderful children out there, managing themselves with a degree of self control that is phenomenal, who can read you words and hear your voice, and please reconsider.

Aestivalis

BlurstMonkey wrote: »

The procedure for the discovery of most new age conditions like ADHD start with development of new drugs by Pharmaceutical industries. First drugs are developed. Then they are tested. Based on the results, if any, there are then attempts to try to market them.

So big pharma produces a drug, then it's tested and it's found to say increase concentration. Following that this new medical condition develops that didn't before and lo and behold there's just the thing to treat it right here, how miraculous.

That's how pharma operates, it's one of the worlds biggest and most profitable industries, sheer capitalist profiteering.

Now there are drugs that do help people, but they're mostly old hat. They don't fall under the umbrella of profitable, they can be manufactured generically. So new and often less effective drugs are patented and pushed in their place. So even the sole argument of good that you can make for the industry is fouled once you even begin to examine it.
The whole point that these drugs are necessary and do work in some cases means the individual is more over a barrel being paddled than being helped.

Conspiracy theory forum is that way

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>


I have ADHD, and its extremely difficult to deal with. Nobody can claim otherwise unless they have it themselves. Also, my medication helps my concentration tenfold.

I find it hard to concentrate on most things (i.e tv show, movie, book) for longer than 10-15 minutes unless its very exciting.

Without my medication I just sit idle and want to die.

Anyhow I'm just gonna close this tab because dealing with so many internet idiots just impacts my already negative mental health.

ceadaoin.

It does exist but is massively over-diagnosed IMO especially in the US. A kid with true ADHD is more than just naughty.

Scary the amount of parents who are willing to medicate their kids with legal speed rather than feed them proper food or spend time creating rules and boundaries with them. Of course, in the States a lot of doctors have a financial interest in prescribing these drugs so a combination of both these factors leads to a lot of poor kids, doped up with pills when they don't really need them, who will no doubt have issues in the future because of it.

craggle

Filibuster wrote: »

I don't know how real it is, but the current practice of medicating children diagnosed with it with methamphetamine's is off-the-wall crazy.

Its normally methylphenidate that they use to treat adhd its chemically similar to amphetamine but its not quite the same thing. methamphetamine would be rarely used and seems to be mainly in the USA

martinedwards

dunno about south of the border, but northside we have a load of scumbag parents who fight to get their kids diagnosed and drugged up so that they can claim disability living allowance.

kids who are just badly behaved, spend the next 10 years in a drug induced stupor so that their lowest of the low scabby minger parent can get extra money for more fags & booze.

Ave Sodalis

Just a question for those who have ADHD... do you think it's something wrong with you, or do you think it's a flaw in the education system and society that everyone is taught in the same way and expected to be able to function like everyone else, despite the fact we're all different?

BlurstMonkey

Aestivalis wrote: »

Conspiracy theory forum is that way

---

>


I have ADHD, and its extremely difficult to deal with. Nobody can claim otherwise unless they have it themselves. Also, my medication helps my concentration tenfold.

I find it hard to concentrate on most things (i.e tv show, movie, book) for longer than 10-15 minutes unless its very exciting.

Without my medication I just sit idle and want to die.

Anyhow I'm just gonna close this tab because dealing with so many internet idiots just impacts my already negative mental health.

Absolutely nothing I have said is in any way a conspiracy thank you very much and you're more than welcome to do your own research on the subject. It's not stuff that's going to be told to you, but the information is out there.
Or if you would prefer to find some evidence to refute what I'm saying rather than accusing me of being a basket case. :rolleyes:

wretcheddomain

The field of psychiatry is one of the youngest disciplines and it still hasn't found its feet. Much of these new conditions they dream up are simply misbehaviours and not psychiatric disorders worthy of medication.

It was only last year that caffeine withdrawal has now been considered a medical disorder in the DSM. There's no condition that these pedantic psychiatrists won't battle over in order just to create a condition around something that they personally don't consider normal.

In 1952, the same DSM considered homosexuality as a "sociopathic personality disturbance". In other words, they keep reinventing conditions that don't exist or dismissing conditions out of hand when evidence shows they're always wrong.

The real problem with the DSM is that there's no objective diagnosis to any condition so it ultimately becomes subjective. This subjectivity has led to the mass dispensing of antidepressants to people who are simply stressed and not depressed. The subjectivity of this field is one of its greatest weaknesses. It also doesn't exactly help to give these individuals drugs which invariably all carry the risk of increasing suicide ideation.

The movement of conditions needs to move away from psychiatry and drugs and directly into the hands of the psychologists. The psychologist is in a much better place to discover the potential causes and solutions of behaviour which don't require drugs. CBT has been shown to be at least equally effective if not more effective than psychiatric drugs themselves, which often can be difficult to get off.

Earthhorse

As far as I can see a lot of mental medical conditions are just clusters of symptoms and labelling them depression, ADHD, autism etc. is just an attempt to make conversations about them easier. They're removing Aspergers from the DSM for example and instead putting it under autism spectrum disorder.

In the article he talks about how most of his patients ended up being diagnosed with something else in the end. That's another huge issue in my opinion. So many of these conditions present with the same symptoms, especially by the time someone seeks help, that the real issue gets covered up and it takes time to get at the route cause. I get that people get frustrated with the trend toward labelling everything but you can't hold bad practise or poor professionalism against the idea itself.

zanador

jay1988 wrote: »

Should be called Little bollix syndrome.

My son's very sweet and loving, doesn't fight, helps everyone when he can, holds doors open etc. His teacher says he always tries to help people with their work, he put others over himself etc..

fartyarse wrote: »

Spoke to my GP at length about this, and he is fairly certain it is absolutely a condition. He also stated that links have been found between the condition and feeding a child convenience food consistently (think E numbers and preservatives).

He also stated that he has only ever witnessed the condition in children coming from financially disadvantaged backgrounds, which may be juxtaposed with the processed foods findings.

I'm very middle class and actually am a little bit obsessive about e-numbers and preservatives. So, maybe your doctor is wrong?

BlurstMonkey

wretcheddomain wrote: »

The field of psychiatry is one of the youngest disciplines and it still hasn't found its feet. Much of these new conditions they dream up are simply misbehaviours and not psychiatric disorders worthy of medication.

It was only last year that caffeine withdrawal has now been considered a medical disorder in the DSM. There's no condition that these pedantic psychiatrists won't battle over in order just to create a condition around something that they personally don't consider normal.

In 1952, the same DSM considered homosexuality as a "sociopathic personality disturbance". In other words, they keep reinventing conditions that don't exist or dismissing conditions out of hand when evidence shows they're always wrong.

The real problem with the DSM is that there's no objective diagnosis to any condition so it ultimately becomes subjective. This subjectivity has led to the mass dispensing of antidepressants to people who are simply stressed and not depressed. The subjectivity of this field is one of its greatest weaknesses. It also doesn't exactly help to give these individuals drugs which invariably all carry the risk of increasing suicide ideation.

The movement of conditions needs to move away from psychiatry and drugs and directly into the hands of the psychologists. The psychologist is in a much better place to discover the potential causes and solutions of behaviour which don't require drugs. CBT has been shown to be at least equally effective if not more effective than psychiatric drugs themselves, which often can be difficult to get off.

Exercise has been found to be more effective than SSRI's in treating depression in studies I've read. Nutrition has a hugely overlooked role in the field of health treatment, from deficiencies to intolerance's. CBT I have only heard good things about.
It's not to say drugs aren't the right treatments for some people, but the area of mental health treatment is itself a morass.

rawn

zanador wrote: »

My son's very sweet and loving, doesn't fight, helps everyone when he can, holds doors open etc. His teacher says he always tries to help people with their work, he put others over himself etc..






I'm nice and middle class and actually am a little bit obsessive about e-numbers and preservatives. So, maybe you're doctor is wrong?

I think "ADHD" is more prevalent in lower class families that eat a lot of processed foods and sugar, whereas actual ADHD can be found anywhere (That's what I would take from that, anyways)

I had a cousin diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, he was particularly hyper IIRC, but he was medicated for about a year before his parents stopped giving it to him, he just wasn't the same kid anymore they said he was a ghost. Once he stopped taking it he was able to channel his energy into music and finds that more beneficial. Took a long time to train his focus like that but it was possible, so whether he had ADHD or "ADHD" I dunno...

zanador

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It does exist but is massively over-diagnosed IMO especially in the US. A kid with true ADHD is more than just naughty.

Scary the amount of parents who are willing to medicate their kids with legal speed rather than feed them proper food or spend time creating rules and boundaries with them. Of course, in the States a lot of doctors have a financial interest in prescribing these drugs so a combination of both these factors leads to a lot of poor kids, doped up with pills when they don't really need them, who will no doubt have issues in the future because of it.

Just on this, I resisted medication for my son for so long. He was struggling at school so much as he couldn't stay on task for longer than about 5 minutes. The older he got, the harder the work got and he was falling behind, and then thinking he was stupid, which wasn't great. Now he is on a very low dose of short acting medication. It gets him through the first 3 hours of school before it wears off, and he has shot to the top of the class in literacy and numeracy. More importantly however, it means that he FEELS intelligent and that has built his self confidence immensely. In the afternoon the teacher keeps him moving, sends him on messages etc and he is never medicated on the weekends or during school holidays.

As I said in an earlier post he has a clean diet and well defined boundaries, but medication has been another tool in our arsenal to help him

Witchie

fartyarse wrote: »

Spoke to my GP at length about this, and he is fairly certain it is absolutely a condition. He also stated that links have been found between the condition and feeding a child convenience food consistently (think E numbers and preservatives).

He also stated that he has only ever witnessed the condition in children coming from financially disadvantaged backgrounds, which may be juxtaposed with the processed foods findings.

I am from an fairly affluent family where my mother was and still is a complete health freak. Almost every meal we ever ate in our house was made from natural ingredients, cooked from scratch. We were only allowed sweets on a Sunday. When we bought the newspapers a bag of Roses would be bought and 2 sweets each were given to us children as a treat.

When my younger brother was about 1 years old, my mother would occasionally make us packet soup with pasta or potatoes as an after school meal until dinner was made later in the evening and my younger brother would get a small portion too. My mother started to notice a change in my brother after he would eat the soup. Things such as him being extra whingy and attention seeking, diarrohea and generally being hyper. She cut the soup out of his diet and he went back to behaving as well as any 1 year old.

He started talking and standing alone at 9 months and was walking from 10 months.....a really smart and advanced child who was running through the house with his blonde locks out behind him well before he was 1.

When he was about 1 and a half my dad was working on the roof when he looked around and my brother was beside him. He had climbed the ladder and walked across the roof as if it was just the ground. He continued throughout the years to display absolutely no fear, no sense of consequences and no matter what you told him, he would do just what he wanted. He was disciplined and my parents took no crap from him yet he would still push and push the boundaries.

When he went to school he was disruptive in class. Got bored easily and ignored the teachers. I had taught him to read by the time he was 3 and a bit and he just found school a drag and not stimulating enough.

When he was 8 they thought he might be dyslexic or have other learning difficulties so they did a range of test on him. He had the reading ability of a 12 year old. Had no problem with anything they threw at him. He was just so anxious to move on to the next thing that he would screw up what he was doing.

My mum spent every day of his school life sitting with him at the table working through his homework while the rest of us just got on with ours. It was a battle of wills and only for my mother's patience and tenacity he would never have survived primary school. By the age of 4 he had been diagnosed through both medical and alternative medicine as having sensitivities to dairy, wheat, colourings, preservatives, flavourings and sugar. My mother kept a tight reign on his diet and this combined with discipline and hard work kept him somewhat on the straight and narrow.

When he hit secondary school it was a different ball game. Teachers were not willing to work with him, just saw him as hassle and disruptive. He was not encouraged in his talents. He was a wonderful artist and writer but was just known as trouble. He had easier access to foods he shouldnt have and was really hard work.

After years and years of pushing to find out what was the issue, my mum got a break through when a cousin's girlfriend visiting us from America identified with the exact same issues and told mum she had been diagnosed with ADHD and she sent mum over books on it. Now mum had a contender for naming the problems she pushed even harder until an educational psychologist took my brother on. She confirmed the diagnosis and my bro was given ritalin.

This all happened a few months before his Junior Cert and he went from failing in every exam to getting 7 honours. We were thrilled. Then transition year hit and he would forget to take his meds and lost all focus. He ended up dropping out of school after being sent to a paid for 5th and 6th year college in Dublin and living with my brother and his wife near Drogheda.

He is still plagued with problems of forgetting to take medication (no longer on ritalin but he has other health issues now), loses mobile phones, jackets, money, everything all the time, can't concentrate or settle at anything exceot the one true love of his life........music.

He is an amazing producer and has been paid to remix stuff for artists and has a fairly big name in the underground music industry but due to lack of confidence from his school days he can't dj live which is what he really wou;ld love to do.

TL/DR

ADHD does exist, I have watched a sibling with it for 30 years but it is over diagnosed.

Mardy Bum

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I would agree to a large extent, add Asperger Syndrome to the list as well.

Why the need to medicalise what are simply differences in ability or personality? Should those who aren't good at sports be routinely prescribed anabolic steroids and HGH?

Aspergers is on the autism spectrum and is most certainly a disorder.
ADHD is most certainly a disorder.
ODD (Oppositional defiance disorder is also a very real disorder).

I think people choose to believe that these thinks are not real purely because they have no experience of them.

ceadaoin.

zanador wrote: »

Just on this, I resisted medication for my son for so long. He was struggling at school so much as he couldn't stay on task for longer than about 5 minutes. The older he got, the harder the work got and he was falling behind, and then thinking he was stupid, which wasn't great. Now he is on a very low dose of short acting medication. It gets him through the first 3 hours of school before it wears off, and he has shot to the top of the class in literacy and numeracy. More importantly however, it means that he FEELS intelligent and that has built his self confidence immensely. In the afternoon the teacher keeps him moving, sends him on messages etc and he is never medicated on the weekends or during school holidays.

As I said in an earlier post he has a clean diet and well defined boundaries, but medication has been another tool in our arsenal to help him

My comment was about the kids who don't have ADHD and are misdiagnosed and given drugs needlessly.

fartyarse

zanador wrote: »

My son's very sweet and loving, doesn't fight, helps everyone when he can, holds doors open etc. His teacher says he always tries to help people with their work, he put others over himself etc..






I'm very middle class and actually am a little bit obsessive about e-numbers and preservatives. So, maybe your doctor is wrong?

I'm fairly certain my GP is not wrong when he says that links have been found, AND that he has only ever witnessed cases in lower classes. He is stating facts. He never said cases are solely in the lower classes, just what he has witnessed personally.

NeonCookies

I'm not an expert as I'm a recent grad and new to the field but I'm working with kids with educational difficulties at the moment e.g. dyslexia, ADHD.

ADHD certainly does exist, but I do believe it's over-diagnosed. The idea that they're just bold kids is wrong. These kids may be the sweetest, most helpful children, they just have problems holding concentration and controlling their impulses e.g. shouting out in class. Maybe after years of being given out to by teachers for reasons they can't really control without support, they become typically "bold" children who don't care about authority, answer back etc. but I guess more out of frustration.

The way we work with the ADHD kids is to train them in self-monitoring to help them be more aware of what they're doing at different times. They learn to ask themselves questions like 'Am I concentrating?', 'Am I daydreaming?', 'What should I be doing right now?'. This process takes a long long time for the child to be able to do this independently. We also do 'brain training' to help them focus their attention and sustain their concentration in different ways by playing games where they shut off certain senses and only focus visually / auditory. We teach them ways to ignore distractions etc. It's a slow process, but medicating isn't the only option.

NegativeCreep

sup_dude wrote: »

Phenylketonuria causes severe brain damage and seizures and is very rare... not something that's seen with ADHD

Take it up with my Biochem lecturer :L