marraige over and i am heartbroken <mod warning post#30>

LegacyUser

I am writing this with a pain in my heart so bad i can hardly breath. I am married with kids. Myself and my husband have been in marraige consilling years ago and currently are there again. We have been attending about six months for constant arguing, disrespect and general disharmony in our home. I have been extremly unhappy and sad. Things i thought we looking up. Other areas of my life are stressing me out and i suffer with anxiety and had attended the gp who has prescribed anti anxiety meds again ( i had been off them a while)

We were looking through my husbands phone, together, when i saw evidence that he had signed up to a site offering live sex shows/webcam etc. He denied it/played ignorant how it happened until he let me look at his email etc to show him i knew for real then he admitted it. I was devestated. We had issues before when i found porn on his phone whilst snooping years ago. After a long time working at this i realised my insecurites where playing up and we discused what was acceptable in our relationship and i even braved myself to look at porn together and we decided honesty was the best policy for us and moved on from it.

In the middle of the argument something clicked with me about a transaction on our joint account, he had said he didnt know whatbit was. It clicked and i googled and turned out he was in a lapdancing club and he had gotten a private dance. My whole world is gone. We had discused specifically that would have been a deal breaker for me over the years. He went there and picked a girl and got his rocks off and came home to his family and kept it a secret. When i questioned him about it he denied any knowledge, again playing ignotance until found out.

I am devestated. Absolutly heart broken. I would never have known if he had paid cash and still wouldnt know. I dont know whats making me more upset, the lies when directly asked, the initial betrayal and deceit or that he did this while we were trying to fix us. Obviously this was his only time and he was going to tell me yada yada.

How can i cope tonight/tomorow or even live my life at all knowing this? He has ripped my heart out and distroyed my kids family.

marizpan

Your marriage has been a negative it seems for a while now. Trust is the hardest thing to get back.
You get a chance to rebuild your life now and soon you will start to feel empowered/ good about it.

Best of luck with your new beginning.

The Corinthian

I'm sorry OP, but I've not a huge amount of sympathy for you, at least from what you've written.

To begin with you've only given your side of the story which apparently largely revolves around you not wanting your husband to indulge in porn (which you discovered when you were snooping - or showing complete contempt for his privacy, as it's also known).

Can he fantasize, without porn, about other women then when masturbating, or does that also cause your "insecurities" to play up? Is it that he masturbates in the first place an issue for you?

If so, how often do you two have sex? Is it as regular as he might like? If not, don't you think that allowing him to sort himself out might be reasonable?

And finally, there's the whole lap dance incident. Are you familiar with lap dancing clubs in Ireland? Personally, I've always considered these places a waste of money (think about it; a private dance is essentially paying someone to give you blue balls) and the least erotic or sensual thing ever. I'd go so far as to say that 99.9% of men only go to these places as part of a male bonding (or peer pressure) exercise - there's nothing even remotely sexual about it.

Certainly, you're more than within your rights to be pissed at him for having gone to one, but to end a marriage over it? Well, at least this is how you've described your break-up; that this was the tipping point.

I'd recommend that you both go back to counselling and discuss what appear to be serious differences in how both of you view sex in general. Additionally, given that you fully admit that many of the issues you have are to do with your own "insecurities", you may have to accept that perhaps it's not a black and white situation where he's the bad guy and you're a helpless victim (who just happens to rifle through his private things).

I'm sorry if what I've posted seems harsh, but sometimes someone needs to be.

LegacyUser

op again, just to clarify after the incident with the snooping we had made changes in our relationship etc. I had not looked at his phone again as I decided the issues were with me and what he had done was not bad. I had not snooped again and generally was much happier in that regard.

we had discussed lap dancing before, as a woman firstly I think its just above paying a prostitute and I don't think it is something a 'nice' guy does. I will probably get backlash for that but please don't focus on that. he knew it was a deal breaker. he did it anyway. it is a big deal, worse then a drunken snog in my head (rightly or wrongly). he didn't tell me about it and lied until confronted.

I literally cannot eat/sleep since this has come to light. I don't know how I will bring kids to school tomorrow, go to the supermarket, anything normal like that.

as for him being so stupid as to not conver his tracks, I cannot know now if this is the tip of the iceberg as to what he is at....

LegacyUser

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'm sorry OP, but I've not a huge amount of sympathy for you, at least from what you've written.

To begin with you've only given your side of the story which apparently largely revolves around you not wanting your husband to indulge in porn (which you discovered when you were snooping - or showing complete contempt for his privacy, as it's also known).

Can he fantasize, without porn, about other women then when masturbating, or does that also cause your "insecurities" to play up? Is it that he masturbates in the first place an issue for you?

If so, how often do you two have sex? Is it as regular as he might like? If not, don't you think that allowing him to sort himself out might be reasonable?

And finally, there's the whole lap dance incident. Are you familiar with lap dancing clubs in Ireland? Personally, I've always considered these places a waste of money (think about it; a private dance is essentially paying someone to give you blue balls) and the least erotic or sensual thing ever. I'd go so far as to say that 99.9% of men only go to these places as part of a male bonding (or peer pressure) exercise - there's nothing even remotely sexual about it.

Certainly, you're more than within your rights to be pissed at him for having gone to one, but to end a marriage over it? Well, at least this is how you've described your break-up; that this was the tipping point.

I'd recommend that you both go back to counselling and discuss what appear to be serious differences in how both of you view sex in general. Additionally, given that you fully admit that many of the issues you have are to do with your own "insecurities", you may have to accept that perhaps it's not a black and white situation where he's the bad guy and you're a helpless victim (who just happens to rifle through his private things).

I'm sorry if what I've posted seems harsh, but sometimes someone needs to be.

as posted I don't like him watching porn but now accept that he does, we have now watched it together. he says he is happy with our sex life, frequency, type etc etc. we discuss this regularly so he has had plenty of time to tell me otherwise. in fact the stuff he likes is more 'vanilla' then I would like. I don't think our sex life could be a cause for him to look elsewhere.

as for the story being one sided, I don't know how to present his side? he said he didn't know why he did it, didn't know why he signed up for that website either. obviously I am not the perfect wife, far from it. but I respected our marriage vows and was 100% commited to making things right in our marriage for myself and our families sake. I KNOW 100% I did everything I could do to make it work. what does that say about me escept I am obviously a fool.

fungun

We have been attending about six months for constant arguing, disrespect and general disharmony in our home

I don't think our sex life could be a cause for him to look elsewhere.

If your marriage is like this I find it hard to believe that you have good enough communication that you know that your sex life is not a problem. Sex is one of the first things people get defensive about when things arent going well. Its hard to be open and honest about it if there is a lot of arguing.

Not that this offsets your husband doing something he knew was a dealbreaker for you. But it sounds like a symptom of deeper issues.

marizpan

Your problems must go a lot deeper than him watching porn, which in my opinion is perfectly normal. You have no trust in him or the marriage.
Much deeper problems than porn! If their is no trust, then their is no marriage.

How did he break your trust before ?

LegacyUser

again, I am not being defensive. I really believe our sex life was good in the fact that even when we argued that was defiantly one way we always connected. as stated our marriage was major improved in all aspects in last few months. we hadn't been to a session of concilling in nearly two months! if anything our marriage was better then it ever was as communication was open, we had learned how to 'argue' and and we were really doing lots together. life was actually good, possibly this is why I am more confused, more devastated. how could I have been so wrong. how was the man I married actually a different man then I thought.

if he was unhappy/dissatisfied with the sex/relationship he has had more then opportunity to tell me. I am not a mind reader. he told me he was happy and I believed him. regards porn, just two weeks ago I picked some for us to watch together and enjoy.

by the majority of replies, it seems I am in the wrong although I have done nothing I can think of. suppose I just wasn't 'enough' and I cant change that now. I was wrong to snoop, I admitted that and addressed MY issues and worked in that. I wish I hadn't allowed my self to trust him as now it wouldn't hurt so much now.

LegacyUser

marizpan wrote: »

Your problems must go a lot deeper than him watching porn, which in my opinion is perfectly normal. You have no trust in him or the marriage.
Much deeper problems than porn! If their is no trust, then their is no marriage.

How did he break your trust before ?

again my problem is not him watching porn, my problem is he betrayed me in the worst way possible when I thought we were on the same page in fixing our marriage. obviously I know NOW there were deeper problems there but I thought we had dealt with those and were working beyond them and I was looking forward to the future. there is no trust anymore.

LegacyUser

sunflower27 wrote: »

Hi there

I am so sorry to read your thread. It is hearbreaking, but not so much because the marriage is over but because you think that it is worth saving.

There is just so much wrong. it sounds like you are looking at it as you are losing this amazing guy, but he has lied to you, disrespected you (I do acknowledge you also did that to him) and he has used joint funds to get lap dances in clubs.

You may have well wanted this marriage to work (I can't help but wonder how your self esteem is after all this and I bet a huge part of your anxiety problems are linked to him), but if his heart wasn't in it, you have been flogging a dead horse.

Right now your life is in turmoil because change is inevitable and many people struggle with that.

You will get through this and you will change because of it. But you will change for the better. In time you will look back at what you were trying so hard to save and ask yourself was he really worth it.

I know right now you cant see that you will be happy again, but ask anyone who has been through this sort of thing do they recover. They do, in time.

I would suggest looking at what it is you have been trying so hard to save, because from where I am sitting you have lowered the bar waaaaay down for yourself.

I would also make counselling for yourself - alone - a priority.

Have a good cry, howl even and get it out and see what supports you have around you. You can't see this as the new chapter in your life I see for you yet, but you will be happier in the end because of it. This guy is only bringing you misery. It is not good enough for you or anyone.

Take care xxx

thank you for understandinf

Carlos Orange

What do you mean by "We were looking through my husbands phone, together"?

LegacyUser

psinno wrote: »

What do you mean by "We were looking through my husbands phone, together"?

we were looking at apps on his phone together.

LegacyUser

There really isn't all that much wrong with watching pornography. It's all over the net these days.

There really isn't all that much wrong with a strip club either. Getting a lap dance is certainly not "getting your rocks off". The guy is fully clothed and can't touch the girl.

Your moral standards seem very high for today's society. Neither of these are cheating.

Given how you are reacting to pornography and a lap dance, I'd question your general reactions and anxiousness to things. I'd imagine it is very hard and stressful for your husband to deal with you, if your react like this.

At the end of the day,when it comes to marriage most guys are looking for harmony and an easy life. Please try to understand this and take things easy and calmly. If you cannot, I'd say the marriage is well over and has been for some time.

P. Breathnach

There is plenty of scope to argue about lap-dancing. Some people think it is a vile, disgusting, immoral practice; others think it is near-enough harmless.

OP, you have made it clear that you are in the first group; your husband may well be in the other camp. You have decided that it should be a deal-breaker, yet he might think that it is a relatively harmless lads' thing. So he does something that he thinks is not too bad, and knows that you think it is. Is it any surprise that he conceals it from you, and is willing to lie about it?

You should think again about whether it should be a deal-breaker. You are imposing your opinions on him in relation to a matter where his views might be quite different from yours.

LegacyUser

I am actually really surprised at the posts. maybe my moral standards are high? is that wrong? he had, or so I though, a high moral code too and we were (I thought) on the same page.

basically you guys suggest I should suck it up as its not that bad. he was right to sneak around and deceive me and keep secrets from me as I am obviously over anxious and probably a prude with a **** sex life if he does this.

wow, didn't think I could be more upset then I already was but there ya go, surprised again.

looks like I should be upset that actually my husband is only doing what he needs, he has to conceal it cause I am a witch and basically I have been the worst type of wife and should actually be glad he hasn't f*cked me out on my ear.

YumCha

Hi OP,

People have very different views on lots of things, but at the end of the day if you've previously voiced your dealbreakers, and he's lied to you and gone and done them anyways - that's a betrayal pure and simple.

Who cares about his side - to me there's no justification for him lying to you like that. If he was unhappy, or had some weird insatiable fetish about lapdances, or whatever - it's his responsibility to bring that up and discuss it with you, not to just go off and do it and (very badly) try to hide it, and then deny it to your face.

From personal experience there is no easy way to get over being betrayed - trying to understand it or find out the true extent of it will just make you feel worse, and you have to give yourself some time to mourn what you lost. You'll drive yourself crazy with the questions (what was real? what wasn't?), and ask yourself it it was your fault, and miss him so badly that you'll contemplate whether what he did was really so bad - and that if you were happy without knowing then could you maybe take him back? It all sucks...

Try talking to friends or finding a counsellor - just someone who is 100% on your side, go out and do things you didn't get to do together because he didn't like them, put time into interests you maybe left by the wayside, pamper yourself, do things that make you happy, don't let yourself stop. You will eventually get there.

freshpopcorn

thank you wrote: »

thank you for understandinf

Going by this response you gave to this person I think you just want people to agree with you and that your husband was in the wrong and for to be felt sorry for.
Outside of your husband looking at the porn/going for a lap dance. I do think they are other problems in the relationship and it has being strained for some time

LegacyUser

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Going by this response you gave to this person I think you just want people to agree with you and that your husband was in the wrong and for to be felt sorry for.
Outside of your husband looking at the porn/going for a lap dance. I do think they are other problems in the relationship and it has being strained for some time

or maybe when I feel so bad I am thanking someone for kind words. I know there are problems in my relationship. I am devastated about this. I am devastated and indeed mourning the loss.

please If anyone has some advice on what to do please in order to cope/deal with the day ot day can you post? I think I have had enough of people advising I should accept porn and lapdancing and it is my own fault for not. can anyone not see my problem is the deception, the lying and the indeiffence of my husbacd to the 'saving the marriage' that is my issue.

LegacyUser

[QUOTE=YumCha;88430983

From personal experience there is no easy way to get over being betrayed - trying to understand it or find out the true extent of it will just make you feel worse, and you have to give yourself some time to mourn what you lost. You'll drive yourself crazy with the questions (what was real? what wasn't?), and ask yourself it it was your fault, and miss him so badly that you'll contemplate whether what he did was really so bad - and that if you were happy without knowing then could you maybe take him back? It all sucks...

Try talking to friends or finding a counsellor - just someone who is 100% on your side, go out and do things you didn't get to do together because he didn't like them, put time into interests you maybe left by the wayside, pamper yourself, do things that make you happy, don't let yourself stop. You will eventually get there.[/QUOTE]

thank you for your advice and understanding

LegacyUser

just as an add on. the time I snooped in his phone was four years ago. not since. my aniexty was a form of post natal depression which was treated by meds/cbt therepy. this does not atomatically make me an anxious highly strung uptight b*tch.

Czarcasm

I think OP you've done more than your fair share of compromising your "dealbreakers", we ALL have things we are and aren't comfortable with, and you've previously worked on your insecurities to try and compromise with your husband, but at some point, where does you compromising who you are in an effort to make the other person happy stop?

Your husband has made compromises to try and make the relationship work, but he's gone back on those compromises without communicating with you first that he wasn't happy to compromise on your dealbreakers any more. This will keep happening as long as neither of you communicate effectively with each other and both of you are trying to be something you're not in order to keep the other person happy. You'll both remain miserable in the long term.

The thing is for you both now to decide are the other aspects of your relationship more important than your dealbreakers and can you both openly communicate with each other and actually trust each other enough to BE open with each other? That denial of both of you of who you are only serves for both of you to dig your heels in further - your husband will continue to hide his activities from you, only he learns to hide them better, and you'll continue to be revulsed even more every time you find out he's betrayed your trust in him yet again.

How long do you both think you can keep up the pretence before you both realise and come to accept the fact that a dealbreaker is called a deal breaker for a reason, or are you willing to continue deluding yourselves and each other that you can live with being miserable with each other for the sake of all the other good aspects of your relationship?

Sometimes a relationship just can't BE saved, and perhaps the best thing to do in that situation is then to weigh up whether it might be better to look at separating and moving forward with your lives and perhaps find someone you are both more compatible with.

DukeOfTheSharp

Honestly, and I'm going to say this as nicely as I can...you've got a lot, and I mean a lot, of insecurities. Especially when you're trying to rationalise looking through your husband's phone. Also, that whole thing about lap-dancing being just above prostitution? Utter and complete rubbish, and you should feel ashamed of yourself for such an ignorant comment, I understand you're speaking out of hurt, but my god, it shows an utter lack of real-world knowledge.

You've established what is and is not acceptable,but what about him? Does he get a say in what he thinks is acceptable? Or are you merely pushing your morals onto him. Ending your marriage over him just watching some porn and going to a strip-club? That says a lot about your level of security and respect in your relationship. The guy feels like he doesn't have to explain why he did all of these things, they're harmless. Now, should he have lied? No. But I can see why he did. It seems that even that phrase of 'we were looking through his phone, together' is a very suffocating thing. He hasn't cheated on you, he's merely seeking some release, probably from stresses and strains in your relationship, given your severe trust issues. Initially, your problem was with porn, and to me that is just not acceptable. Even if he's being a right muppet about it, hiding things from you and the like, which is wrong, he probably feels like there's no alternative, given that you're so obsessed with this concept that your idea of purity is being pressed onto his identity. Maybe, given all of the stresses and strains (and I'm sure that the disrespect goes both ways), he needs to get out of his head and feel something more relaxing.

My point being, your issues are your own. His issues seem to relate to a mistreatment of sorts at the result of how you've been treating him. In short, you're both in a wrong of sorts, but your attitude needs serious correcting. I'm playing devil's advocate here, really.

op again.......

op again....... wrote: »

we were looking at apps on his phone together.

This doesn't explain how you "found" evidence that he had signed up to these sites. Did you look through his emails?

LegacyUser

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

Honestly, and I'm going to say this as nicely as I can...you've got a lot, and I mean a lot, of insecurities. Especially when you're trying to rationalise looking through your husband's phone. Also, that whole thing about lap-dancing being just above prostitution? Utter and complete rubbish, and you should feel ashamed of yourself for such an ignorant comment, I understand you're speaking out of hurt, but my god, it shows an utter lack of real-world knowledge.

You've established what is and is not acceptable,but what about him? Does he get a say in what he thinks is acceptable? Or are you merely pushing your morals onto him. Ending your marriage over him just watching some porn and going to a strip-club? That says a lot about your level of security and respect in your relationship. The guy feels like he doesn't have to explain why he did all of these things, they're harmless. Now, should he have lied? No. But I can see why he did. It seems that even that phrase of 'we were looking through his phone, together' is a very suffocating thing. He hasn't cheated on you, he's merely seeking some release, probably from stresses and strains in your relationship, given your severe trust issues. Initially, your problem was with porn, and to me that is just not acceptable. Even if he's being a right muppet about it, hiding things from you and the like, which is wrong, he probably feels like there's no alternative, given that you're so obsessed with this concept that your idea of purity is being pressed onto his identity. Maybe, given all of the stresses and strains (and I'm sure that the disrespect goes both ways), he needs to get out of his head and feel something more relaxing.

My point being, your issues are your own. His issues seem to relate to a mistreatment of sorts at the result of how you've been treating him. In short, you're both in a wrong of sorts, but your attitude needs serious correcting. I'm playing devil's advocate here, really.

wow so a couple cant look through the aps together? we were having fun and playing a quiz. I HAVE ADDRESSED MY ISSUES REGARDING INVADING HIS PRIVACY. I DO NOT DO THAT ANYMORE AND HAVENT IN FOUR YEARS. I REALISED IT WAS NOT RIGHT AND MADE CHANGES TO MY LIFE IN ORDER TO ADDRESS MY ISSUES WITH MY OWN INSECURITES AND RESPECTING HIS PRIVACY

AGAIN...........ME AND MY HUSBAND WATCH PORN TOGETHER, WE HAVE MADE OUR OWN HOME VIDEOS ALSO. do I really need to give more details about my sex life in order for you not to assume he wasn't neglected etc. and if he f*cking was he SHOULD HAVE SAID!

my world has collapsed as I thought WE WERE ON THE SAME PAGE REGARDS CERTAIN ISSUES, what we both regard as cheating, what is acceptable in our relationship and what is not. only yesterday (before this happened, we were discussing our sex life) there are things I would have liked to do that he wasn't comfortable to do, I ACCEPTED THIS AS I LOVED HIM. We had agreed on an honesty, no matter how hurtlful, was the BEST POLICY.

unfortunately this thread has become mainly about if porn is acceptable or not? WTF??? sorry for all the caps shouting but I feel some posters just want to say lighten up, accept the porn but missing what my problem is...WHICH IS NOT THE PORN IT IS THE DECEIT!

LegacyUser

Deleted User wrote: »

This doesn't explain how you "found" evidence that he had signed up to these sites. Did you look through his emails?

no it was plain to see on his phone. he was holding it not me.

YumCha

Deleted User wrote: »

This doesn't explain how you "found" evidence that he had signed up to these sites. Did you look through his emails?

Reread the OP - they were looking through his phone together, she saw something - asked him about it, he denied it, then he let her look at his email which confirmed it. (well that's how I read it - she already said she hadn't snooped his phone.)

I also don't get why people are harping on about the prior snooping, in terms of the timeline, this is how I understand it:

Yearssssss ago:
- She snooped his phone and found he was looking at porn, they talked it out, she admitted her insecurities, and they agreed to move on, watched some porn together, and decided to be honest from that point forward.

Recently:
- While looking at his phone together - she saw something for a live sex site and asked him about it, he denies it (but then he lets her look at his email which shows he was lying)
- After argument - she finds a lapdance charged to their joint account, asks him about it, he denies it (but was lying)

Are we really defending his right to get a lapdance over her expectation that her partner wouldn't do something she had clearly identified as being a dealbreaker for her?

He had all the choice in the world when she brought it up as a dealbreaker initially - he could have said "No, I really need to get lapdances - is there any way we can compromise?", or "Sorry getting lapdances is a dealbreaker for me and I'm not going to be able to give them up so I think it's best that we go our separate ways..." But nooooo - instead he agreed to accept her dealbreaker and went against it knowing how it would make her feel if she found out, and then lied to her face about it - that's a pretty indefensible douche move imo.

LegacyUser

YumCha wrote: »

Reread the OP - they were looking through his phone together, she saw something - asked him about it, he denied it, then he let her look at his email which confirmed it. (well that's how I read it - she already said she hadn't snooped his phone.)

I also don't get why people are harping on about the prior snooping, in terms of the timeline, this is how I understand it:

Yearssssss ago:
- She snooped his phone and found he was looking at porn, they talked it out, she admitted her insecurities, and they agreed to move on, watched some porn together, and decided to be honest from that point forward.

Recently:
- While looking at his phone together - she saw something for a live sex site and asked him about it, he denies it (but then he lets her look at his email which shows he was lying)
- After argument - she finds a lapdance charged to their joint account, asks him about it, he denies it (but was lying)

Are we really defending his right to get a lapdance over her expectation that her partner wouldn't do something she had clearly identified as being a dealbreaker for her?

He had all the choice in the world when she brought it up as a dealbreaker initially - he could have said "No, I really need to get lapdances - is there any way we can compromise?", or "Sorry getting lapdances is a dealbreaker for me and I'm not going to be able to give them up so I think it's best that we go our separate ways..." But nooooo - instead he agreed to accept her dealbreaker and went against it knowing how it would make her feel if she found out, and then lied to her face about it - that's a pretty indefensible douche move imo.

jesus Christ thank you.

if I wasn't clear before its because I was upset whilst writing.

junction12

YumCha wrote: »

Hi OP,


Who cares about his side - to me there's no justification for him lying to you like that. If he was unhappy, or had some weird insatiable fetish about lapdances, or whatever - it's his responsibility to bring that up and discuss it with you, not to just go off and do it and (very badly) try to hide it, and then deny it to your face.

His side is just as important as the OP's side.

Taltos

OK all

we understand this is an emotive issue as is privacy.
However we have to call time now on constantly pulling the OP up on their behaviour. Can I remind all of our charter - if you have NO constructive advice to offer please don't post.

The message has been loud and clear from some of you on what you think is acceptable, and while that is admirable none of us are in a position to speak to what is acceptable in the OPs marriage.
Similarly posts around "we only have your side" - well what do you expect here? RI is not a discussion forum, it is sometimes the last resort for someone who needs help, and yes sometimes the help may be harsh or something you don't want to hear, but were we to get the OH posting here we would have no choice but to close this thread so please let me call a halt to any further discussions over the one sided nature of the OP - this is true for ALL threads in RI.

Thanks all
Taltos

fungun

I guess you dont say when this happened (i.e. when the actual lapdance occurred)

If it was before your latest counselling and you feel that you may be getting your marriage back on track, then it may be worth it to try and let this go as something that happened in the past, and all that is forgiven.
If it happened whilst you were supposed to be back on track together then it feels like more of an issue to me for him to do something that he knew was a dealbreaker.

freshpopcorn

this it the op wrote: »

or maybe when I feel so bad I am thanking someone for kind words. I know there are problems in my relationship. I am devastated about this. I am devastated and indeed mourning the loss.

please If anyone has some advice on what to do please in order to cope/deal with the day ot day can you post? I think I have had enough of people advising I should accept porn and lapdancing and it is my own fault for not. can anyone not see my problem is the deception, the lying and the indeiffence of my husbacd to the 'saving the marriage' that is my issue.

I think you just need to go to counselling by yourself to discuss your issues and the issues you have with your husband.
I am not saying either of you are wrong but the relationship isn't working and neither of ye sound happy and haven't been for some time and this isn't going to benefit your kids.

The Corinthian

op again wrote: »

we had discussed lap dancing before, as a woman firstly I think its just above paying a prostitute and I don't think it is something a 'nice' guy does.

Not really a backlash, but I genuinely do think you're exaggerating. As I said, I don't see the point in lap dances and think them a complete waste of money; I've had them, but I really don't see anything really sexual in them and I think the last one I had I only agreed to because the girl in question had spent so long trying to convince me to have one and I felt sorry for her.

OK, it's a big deal for you, fair enough. But genuinely I just can't understand how you might think it more serious than a drunken snog; is the snog more forgiveable because it's drunken or something? Would I be wrong in saying that most would think a drunken snog is far more serious?

reply wrote: »

as for the story being one sided, I don't know how to present his side?

That's a fair point and I appreciate your position. One reason I raised that was that what you were saying was sounding very black and white, villain and victim, and generally all this kind of narrative tends to achieve is validation, rather than constructive advice.

I think though the other reason I mentioned his side is that we have an incomplete picture of what's going on. Your response, has been illuminating and in fact, I suspect that the two of you are very alike as a result.

Just as you see a lap-dancer as one step removed from a prostitute and someone that a 'nice' guy would never go near, I suspect your husband is suffering from the classic mother-whore syndrome. Sex with him is vanilla for you and he has no complaints with your sex life because you're the mother of his children - he would never have that kind of sex with you. Similarly, you cannot abide the idea of him doing things that 'nice' guys would not do because the man you married should naturally be better than that.

So I suspect there may be a pair of you in it. Did alcohol play a large part of your courtship, sexually speaking? Have you both explored your attitudes twoards sex? And when I say both, I especially mean him, as I suspect he may have to do a lot more introspective examination than you.

LegacyUser

If he KNEW it was a marital dealbreaker and he went ahead and did it anyway? Then he's a f$cking child.

This guy likes to gamble OP. He paid with a CREDIT CARD, ffs. Its not as if it was a secret credit card. He was gambling with the marriage and your good opinion of him, all so he could be the little dangerous rebel.

If the agreed boundaries of the marriage aren't enough for him, then he can go off to freer, greener pastures.

fungun

one could argue he was so obviously doing this, it was deliberate sabotage of relationship. But maybe thats where his head was 6 months ago, but not where his head is now.

I think its worth a conversation with him to understand it

LegacyUser

The Corinthian wrote: »

Not really a backlash, but I genuinely do think you're exaggerating. As I said, I don't see the point in lap dances and think them a complete waste of money; I've had them, but I really don't see anything really sexual in them and I think the last one I had I only agreed to because the girl in question had spent so long trying to convince me to have one and I felt sorry for her.

OK, it's a big deal for you, fair enough. But genuinely I just can't understand how you might think it more serious than a drunken snog; is the snog more forgiveable because it's drunken or something? Would I be wrong in saying that most would think a drunken snog is far more serious?

That's a fair point and I appreciate your position. One reason I raised that was that what you were saying was sounding very black and white, villain and victim, and generally all this kind of narrative tends to achieve is validation, rather than constructive advice.

I think though the other reason I mentioned his side is that we have an incomplete picture of what's going on. Your response, has been illuminating and in fact, I suspect that the two of you are very alike as a result.

Just as you see a lap-dancer as one step removed from a prostitute and someone that a 'nice' guy would never go near, I suspect your husband is suffering from the classic mother-whore syndrome. Sex with him is vanilla for you and he has no complaints with your sex life because you're the mother of his children - he would never have that kind of sex with you. Similarly, you cannot abide the idea of him doing things that 'nice' guys would not do because the man you married should naturally be better than that.

So I suspect there may be a pair of you in it. Did alcohol play a large part of your courtship, sexually speaking? Have you both explored your attitudes twoards sex? And when I say both, I especially mean him, as I suspect he may have to do a lot more introspective examination than you.

again the assumption the betrayal is because of something lacking in our sex life. alcohol does not play a part in our sex life. without going into detail (I feel I have already tried to justify my sex life not being bland etc because I don't watch porn daily/don't like lap dancing for a married man or because I have been diagnosed with anxiety-HE does NOT treat me like 'the mother of his children' when we are having sex. we both enjoy things that are often seen in porn that I know personally a lot of my friends would not be interested in.

AGAIN, he had opportunity to tell me if he needed something more. just LAST NIGHT he told me there was one thing he MAY like to try (it did not involve porn/lap dance anything else) and we already to the thing in question to a lesser extend. IF HE WANTED MORE how could I have known?

that's great you have had lapdances that you enjoyed to some extent, keep living your life whatever you want. I am sure there are things I do that you wouldn't agree to/don't think is acceptable but hey guess what? my life dosnt affect you and vice versa. when a couple have shared values/dreams and ideas of what is important (which I thought we did) it is shattering to find out these have been a lie. what else has been a lie?

obviously we have problems, we were (again I thought) trying to work these out. again I thought we were and we were much happier. this icendent with the lap dance occurred some weeks ago, the website last week. we were at the consiller this week (after 7 weeks break) where my husband said our relationship was great and that we had had a wonderful Christmas.

in order to function AT ALL I will have to indeed go to consilling. I have already told my mother as I was so upset I couldn't talk when she rang. I cant bare the thought of telling anyone else at the moment hence why I am here.

LegacyUser

fungun wrote: »

one could argue he was so obviously doing this, it was deliberate sabotage of relationship. But maybe thats where his head was 6 months ago, but not where his head is now.

I think its worth a conversation with him to understand it

unfortunately his conversation when asked about this was he dosnt know why he did it he just did.

this is a complete cop out but is his general way of behaving when he has been a prick.

this inceident was not when times were bad, which possibly I might have 'understood' a bit more but very recently.

maybe he is indeed trying to sabatoge the relationship if he feels suffocated or wants to be free/single.

the worst thing is I can not believe anything he says/ or has said. I don't know how I will get through this.

ash23

Op, personally I wouldn't have a problem with my boyfriend going to a lap dancing club as part of a stag party or something like that. I think I'd have a huge problem if he was going alone regularly.
Not so much the moral aspect (although I will say I think it would shake my confidence a bit) but it would be a massive waste of money and time in my opinion.

I'd have huge problems with it actually. You voiced your opinion to your husband and rather than being truthful, he lied and kept his whereabouts from you.

I'd take more umbrage to him lying about where he had been (assuming he told you about his day and he lied).

I have no advice but I just thought you were getting a hard time and wanted to say you're not completely off the wall to be annoyed about the deception.

LegacyUser

ash23 wrote: »

I'd have huge problems with it actually. You voiced your opinion to your husband and rather than being truthful, he lied and kept his whereabouts from you.

I'd take more umbrage to him lying about where he had been (assuming he told you about his day and he lied).

thanks for posting, he had lied in detail about that part of the night, lied when asked what the transaction was on the bank account and lied again when I copped on, googled the place and only admitted when I shoved the info in his face.

he said he was of course going to tell me but didn't want to ruin Christmas! instead he has ruined much more.

ahnow

OP, there is a lot of backlash it would seem on this thread, but I want to let you know, and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one who thinks this, you are absolutely well within your rights to feel the way you do, and you have my sympathy. You both had an agreement and an understanding of what was okay and not okay in your relationship and he betrayed you and went behind your back. Of course it is going to be heartbreaking. You're not making a fuss over nothing, and it's not all in your head. I hope that you're okay and that you can reach out for some support.

I'd also add that it's a real eye-opener looking at some of the comments on here, and a real lack of compassion coming from people going on the attack and on the defence when the OP is clearly distraught and upset.

wallycharlo

OP, my own 2 cts would be that you may be as well off plugging out your computer for the evening.

You are clearly very wound up right at this minute, and perhaps rightly so, I'm not arguing one way or the other.

Buy my own personal feeling is that the tone of some of your responses is not doing you any favours at the minute. Might be best to face into this thread again tomorrow with a clearer head ...

Nymeria

Hi OP, I'm sorry you've had such a hard time here, especially when you were looking for a bit of hand holding. Of course you are perfectly entitled to set the boundaries of what you are willing to accept in your own relationship, which you made clear to your husband, and which he ignored. Don't get bogged down by other people pushing their own agenda onto you, fwiw you sound pretty strong and I commend you for knowing your own mind and not allowing yourself to be walked over.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on lapdancing etc. but what matters is that he lied and decieved you, and coming at a time when you were trying to repair your marriage that would be gutting. you also mention in your OP that he signed up for dating or webcam sites, that would be a dealbreaker for me, and for a lot of other people.

Try to focus on yourself and your kids, give yourself time and space to figure out what to do next. I wish you all the best x

twiggy86

Hi op,

I'm completely shocked by some of the replies you got to this thread, I, like other posters have no issue with my fiance going to lap dancing clubs but I would have a problem if I set an obvious dealbreaker and he went ahead behind my back but even more so if I had to find out by accident rather then him telling me.

You sound like you have good communication about the sexual aspects of your relationship so I'm sure he could have brought up the fact that he wanted to go these clubs. Sure it would have hurt at the time but it'd be much better in the long run. You could have maybe come to a compromise (like the porn thing, bravo for that btw I wouldn't be 100% comfortable watching porn regularly together) but instead it's now become such a huge issue.

Just on another note, don't bother thinking about what was posted earlier in the thread, no one has the right to tell you what you're feeling is wrong, you set your boundaries very clearly.

I know you're angry now and feel like there's no going back but hopefully your spouse will realise what he has to lose before it's too late and stop messing about. Just look after yourself and your kids for now. As ridiculous as this sounds I'm trying to send you good vibes right now!!

This thread is shocking. The OP outlined her limits to her husband, and he appeared to take them seriously. Then she discovered that he not only ignored the hurt he would cause her, he also compounded the hurt by lying. She hasn't behaved perfectly in the past, but she found all this out looking at her husbands phone with her husband.

She's obviously very distressed and in a great deal of pain, these are the things that need to be managed before the situation is analysed, and casting doubt on her sex life, putting blame on her for his actions, and phrasing things in a way that makes her feel she is not entitled to her pain, doesn't help the situation in this acute short term, especially since she's already suffering from anxiety.

OP, you need support and time to think of this situation calmly, I think your hurt is clouding your ability to make reasoned decisions at this point, and that's very understandable. If you can get some decent sleep and try control your anxiety before making any serious decisions or even before saying things you might regret when the heat of the situation burns out, I'm sure it would help a lot. Try to allow yourself time to calm down and think things through more coolly before you have another conversation with your husband. You need the time.

Please find someone supportive who knows you well and won't jump to conclusions to speak to, or get help talking it through with your counsellor.

The Corinthian

this is me wrote: »

again the assumption the betrayal is because of something lacking in our sex life. alcohol does not play a part in our sex life. without going into detail (I feel I have already tried to justify my sex life not being bland etc because I don't watch porn daily/don't like lap dancing for a married man or because I have been diagnosed with anxiety-HE does NOT treat me like 'the mother of his children' when we are having sex. we both enjoy things that are often seen in porn that I know personally a lot of my friends would not be interested in.

I'm not making any assumptions, only postulating based upon what you've written. I, like everyone else, could well be wrong. And I do get the impression that there is something wrong in your relationship sexually with your husband, and not even from your side of things but from his, which he is simply not acknowledging - is that so difficult to contemplate given he's been less than honest elsewhere?

that's great you have had lapdances that you enjoyed to some extent, keep living your life whatever you want.

Actually, I didn't enjoy them at all. I didn't even seek them, TBH, and have repeatedly said they are completely asexual wastes of money, IMHO. My point was to underline that perhaps you are taking the lap-dance issue too seriously, especially if you consider them more serious than a drunken snog. What would be more serious is his lying to you, but overall, I'm am questioning if this is enough to end a marriage over it.

I genuinely hope the two of you get through all this together.

LegacyUser

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'm not making any assumptions, only postulating based upon what you've written. I, like everyone else, could well be wrong. And I do get the impression that there is something wrong in your relationship sexually with your husband, and not even from your side of things but from his, which he is simply not acknowledging - is that so difficult to contemplate given he's been less than honest elsewhere?

Actually, I didn't enjoy them at all. I didn't even seek them, TBH, and have repeatedly said they are completely asexual wastes of money, IMHO. My point was to underline that perhaps you are taking the lap-dance issue too seriously, especially if you consider them more serious than a drunken snog. What would be more serious is his lying to you, but overall, I'm am questioning if this is enough to end a marriage over it.

I genuinely hope the two of you get through all this together.

What i find strange is your insistance that getting a lap dance is so 'nothing' and an asexual experience that my husband needed to have one in order to help with his unsatisfactory and unfufilled sex life. Strange way og looking at things????!!!!

But guess what, i happen to think if he was unhappy he should have spoken to me instead of doing what he did in secret and lying about it!

LegacyUser

Thank you all for posting with your kind words and good advice. My heart is broken and my head distroyed trying to piece together my whole life. Physically i am exhausted but cannot sleep. I have told another good friend who couldnt even begin to over advice such was her shock at the situation!

i like it best when i am angry as it feels much better then the waves of grief and sadness for the loss of half of my life and my dreams for my family. I cannot imagine being able to think of anything else

The Corinthian

Opopop wrote: »

What i find strange is your insistance that getting a lap dance is so 'nothing' and an asexual experience that my husband needed to have one in order to help with his unsatisfactory and unfufilled sex life. Strange way og looking at things????!!!!

Well, I've been quite carefull to point out that lap dances are pretty un-erotic, only in my opinion. I've been around long enough to know that others can well differ in this regard.

I also think it could well be unrelated to anything sexual. If he ended up there with a group of lads, it can be as much peer pressure as anything that results in such a dance.

But guess what, i happen to think if he was unhappy he should have spoken to me instead of doing what he did in secret and lying about it!

Totally agree. Why he hasn't possibly comes down to two possibilities:

He cannot admit his needs. Some people have mental blocks where it comes to discussing certain sexual desires - they can discuss them to a point, after which they simply cannot.

The agreement was a 'forced' one. As you've repeatedly said, the two of you agreed that something like lap-dancing was a deal-breaker. Thing is, I don't really know what "agreed" means here; there's a difference between mutual agreement and an ultimatum.

Either of these would cause someone to fail to communicate their desires to the point that they'd go behind the other's back. Whatever the reason, yes, I agree that communication on this broke down completely.

Good luck in the future and I hope it works out for you both.

iPink

ahnow wrote: »

OP, there is a lot of backlash it would seem on this thread, but I want to let you know, and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one who thinks this, you are absolutely well within your rights to feel the way you do, and you have my sympathy. You both had an agreement and an understanding of what was okay and not okay in your relationship and he betrayed you and went behind your back. Of course it is going to be heartbreaking. You're not making a fuss over nothing, and it's not all in your head. I hope that you're okay and that you can reach out for some support.

I'd also add that it's a real eye-opener looking at some of the comments on here, and a real lack of compassion coming from people going on the attack and on the defence when the OP is clearly distraught and upset.

OP I completely agree with what is said here.. I am a little shocked by some of the replies to be honest. You have no need to defend your sex life to anyone... The fact of the matter is that you & your husband had a contract together and he broke it... No one else has any right to judge what was on that contact!
Ok you made a mistake a few years ago by looking through his phone, a mistake you admitted to, got help for & addressed. .. He could have left you then but he didn't & you moved forward as a couple with new understandings & agreements in place. .. He then proceeded to trample all over them, disrespect you & lie about it.
There is no question here about whether porn is good or bad, lap dances are good or bad etc... each to their own!! I understand someone on here commented that he has had lap dances & doesn't find them sexual, ok fair enough but that is not to say that your husband doesn't find them extremely sexual!! I don't get off on rubber dolls or men dressed as babies etc but fantasies & fetishes are as vast as the human race!!
Plus your HUSBAND advertised himself for live sex shows & used your joint account to pay for something he knew you would be devestated about if you found out... OP of course you feel betrayed you poor thing, my heart really goes out to you.... I can only imagine how you are feeling right now
Please know that whatever decisions you make & only you can make them, this feeling WILL pass... Not tomorrow or next week but eventually it will & you will come out of this a stronger person!
You deserve so much better than this, perhaps you two are just not as compatible as you both originally thought. . A pity that didn't come to light before you had made such a massive emotional commitment to him & had children together.
Stay strong OP, see a Counsellor if you can, someone who can guide you through this mess and perhaps help you to reduce some of the
confusion... Try not to torture yourself too much with what else might have gone on. .. He has already lied to you several times so you will probably never know the full truth & you are worth so much more!
Take care xx

iPink

Mr Topper wrote: »

A visit to a lap dancing club and looking at porn would be the norm for most married men. By the norm I mean in excess of half - judging from a canvass here of the lads at work. Keeping it under wraps from the other half will depend on how much of a moaning Minnie she is.... And that's the facts.

very unhelpful & sexist post. .. so a woman is a 'moaning Minnie' if she expresses her distaste over something?? A man should be allowed to do whatever he wants in a relationship even if his partner disagrees & if she doesn't then it's perfectly acceptable to lie to her about it so as not to hear the moaning.. ?? Frankly I am shocked & very disturbed by this attitude coming from a (presumed) adult. ..

On a personal note I am extremely anti the whole porn/strip club industry, not for 'prudish' reasons by any means but because it objectifies women (mostly but men too) & takes the humanity out of sex. Most people involved in this industry become deeply scarred by it, I was watching a documentary about it not so long ago & even men who were avid supporters became disgusted by it when shown the reality & after speaking to some of the men & women involved. ..
It's also teaching young men & women unrealistic attitudes towards sex, their bodies & morals... many people involved with sexual abuse & rape performed by young males blame porn for this rising offense.
just my 2 cents worth...

Idle Passerby

I am probably reiterating what others have already said here but I would like to add my voice so the OP can see she has support despite all the negative comments she's received.

They dealt with their issues several years ago when they first arose and the OP was under the impression that was all in the past and they were on the same page and had good communication. It is completely understandable and justified that she is distraught over discovering this is not the case at all.

Not only has her husband gone against her express wishes (that he agreed to previously) but he has been engaging with other real world women for sexual motives via webcam. I think its unfair to bring personal opinions of the right or wrongness of lapdancing up when the issue is about spousal deceit. The lapdance is just one part of it, and I dont think its the fact he went that is the problem, rather that she told him how she felt about it, he agreed he wouldnt hurt her in that way but went ahead anyway and then lied about it.

He is basically showing that he doesnt value his wifes feelings or respect her enough to be honest with her. That is what the OP is upset over. The lapdance is not actually the issue.

Frank Black

I think most of the men posting in this thread are simply making the point that if viewing porn or visiting a lapdancing club are deal-breakers in a relationship - then not many real-world relationships would survive.